Formation of an Exploratory Comittee On the Establishment of New Vehicle Research
- Thread starter YSSMAN
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///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
At the very top of THIS post, when you claimed I couldn't get real traction. You know, right after the post HERE and HERE where I pointed out how hypocritical your attitude towards Duke has been?
Really. A trained chimp can follow where this thread has gone. Don't bother playing shell games. It just makes you look even worse.
More hypocrisy.
My first post in this thread is HERE, where I replied directly to the OP, giving him information ON A CAR HE WAS CONSIDERING.
I didn't even bother responding to your opinion of the 323 until you began making generalizing comments of 3-series owners HERE. YOU opened the door, buddy. Don't whine when it doesn't end up going your way.
M
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
If you think the TL-S is "significantly more sporty" and "handles very similarly" to a 323i ZSP (which is what I linked), again, I BEG you to come to my next autocross. The TL is FWD on a 1" longer wheelbase, 400 lbs (at least) heavier, and definitely has worse weight distribution.
I will stipulate that it is faster and quicker - I always have. I will also remind you that acceleration was not high on the OP's priority list.
His current car has a manual transmission. He's looking for something sporty and 95% (except Doug) of the sporty car enthusiasts in the world prefer a manual transmission. Far be it from me to think you'd realize that.Of course, that's long AFTER I suggested the TL, but far be it from me to think that you'd realize that.
Still, technically you're correct, it was not explicitly stated that a manual was a requirement. Yet despite the YSSMAN's own intervening posts, you're still championing the TL-S as the ideal car for him.
I could want you to admit that the Acura was no more mandated by his criteria than the BMW was... but that's pointless to wish for.
I'll leave it up to YSSMAN to decide if I've twisted or stretched his his words. YSSMAN: Which one of us (Doug or I) has more accurately assessed your criteria?The crap about wanting a car with little extras isn't even what he said - he said he likes one particular car with a manual transmission and few extras, not that that's exactly what he wants. Considering that he didn't put that in his initial criteria nor did he use that criteria to reject the TL, I think I'm in the right here, and there's no question you've twisted his words, from his admiration of one car to his desiring all cars to be just like that one. But it supports your point, so why not use it.
Don't worry about getting caught between anything or contadicting a staff memeber. I'm posting as a private citizen - if I'm wrong here, I want to know it.
Agreed above, the manual transmission was not explicitly stated as a criteria. It was, however, implied, and even after it was stated, you're still defending the TL-S as the perfect car selection.
...which, not coincidentally, was also on his list of cars he was already considering before I recommended it.
Because you've never missed an opportunity to take a cheap shot against the 3-series and people who own them, regardless of how relevant it is.
- 3,987
- Gaithersburg/MD
- landseaair
YSS you must be very flattered, they're fighting over you
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
...To answer his question:
- A Lincoln LS would be great, but as noted with the SVT Focus, theres one big problem. The blue-oval builds 'em, that that doesn't fly too well in my household. I'd have to try to find a pretty early model with a stick, and I've only seen a few like that, however I may give one a look if I spot it.
- Saab 9-3: As someone who almost bought a 900 Turbo because of how crazy it was, believe me that I've considered it. However insurance and parts pricing kinda scares me (as it should with any European car), however I think that a fairly-new model would fly pretty well. I'd go looking for a "stripper" model, I don't need anything too special. Maybe I'll call my friend over at Fox and see what he has on his lot...
- Volvos (of all kinds): Good news and bad news about Volvo is that most of their models do what I want, but seem to be kinda choosy as to which models are which. An older 240 Turbo may not be too bad, as I looked at one a while ago for my brother, but I'm probably going to want something post-'96. I'd probably want something small-ish, no more than an S60, and obviously once again manuals are a must. If I could find the new S40 for cheap I'd get one, better yet a V50, but the car price and insurance will probably be well-beyond what I want to spend.
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On this issue of the TL-S versus 323/325:
In all fairness, the TL does for the most part match what I would want in a car. They can be had for a decent price, offer a good balance between sport and comfort, and have a bit of a premium flare with it. However, as noted the automatic kinda poo-poos the chances overall, that and I'd generally prefer an American or German car in most circumstances.
...IMO, the model of the 3-series is what I'd consider "most desirable" for a car that I'd want. Yes, I have driven one (albeit a short test-drive) before, a late-model 328ci with the automatic. I came away pretty impressed and it has left an impression as to how I judge cars overall. For me, I wouldn't want to have anything more than your basic 3-series, a manual transmission, maybe the sport package... Heated seats would be nice too. But do I need it? Certainly not... For God's sake I'm driving an eleven-year-old Jetta Wolfsburg, so just about anything made in the past half-decade or so is a vast improvement.
To criticize myself for a moment, I've probably set my goals a bit too high. I'm not sure, as I'm just starting to feel-out the market before I go car hunting starting in a few weeks. I think $15K is a possibility, but being realistic, I'd probably have to cut that budget to $10K or less. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to go for a 3-series of some kind, or at least something that follows that basic idea.
This would be pretty close to what I'd want, nothing too special, but enough to seem "special."
So yes, the 3-series still stands. Prices will still be in free-fall for some models, and thats a good thing. The Camaro/Firebird is always on the table, but I'm not sure how well that will work out. And I could always go back to my "precious" Volkswagen with an MKIV, but I don't know for sure. The Maxima has returned to my list, and so too has the Prelude, but I think the Americans and Germans take a bit of precedence, but that doesn't mean that they won't be considered.
- 7,666
Hey, are any of you UK guys familiar with any Euro-only cars (preferably a sedan, but a hatch would do, nothing tiny) that sell for under £3000, or around $5000? I think it would be cool to get a Euro only car and confuse the non-car people. Maybe like a Seat Ibiza?
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- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
I think it is a lot harder to get a European car sent to America than you think. You'd have to read-up on what is considered to be legal for import and what isn't, but a good guess may be that the Seat wouldn't. I know that crash/emissions laws between America and Australia are nearly identical, so you could probably get yourself an Aussie Holden or Ford, but I'm not sure if any of the "Continental" nations meet our criteria.
- 3,603
Not to take sides for the sake of taking sides, but I do honestly think that the CL-S is more on the side of a grand tourer than sport coupe. From everything I know about the car, it has more technology and is more loaded-out than what YSSMAN has specified. Leather seating is always nice, but satnav is quite unneccesary. Probably wouldn't work all that well, considering that it's an older system.
Anyway, I would like to recommend the Eagle Talon TSI AWD.
It's very comfortable, and has as much sport as you'll need (within reason). Depending on how heavy your foot is, the car can get respectable mileage, or fairly poor mileage. You should be able to find a near perfect example for $5000 - $6000.
It is a fairly heavy car, at 3108 lbs. Being based off a FWD-car, the AWD version does still exhibit moderate understeer, but it is easily controllable. It's got the Mitsubishi 4G63t motor producing 190 HP and 195 lb-ft. of torque. 1989 to 1994 models were immune to the famed crankwalk that plagues second generation cars. All said, the first generation (1G) DSM's were no worse than any other car of it's time for reliability. I have found this in my personal car, a 1992 TSI AWD, and it appears to be the common consensus among forums and people I know.
If you choose to do so, the DSM is also a very easily modified car. Small amounts of money can return considerable power.
Anyway, I would like to recommend the Eagle Talon TSI AWD.
It's very comfortable, and has as much sport as you'll need (within reason). Depending on how heavy your foot is, the car can get respectable mileage, or fairly poor mileage. You should be able to find a near perfect example for $5000 - $6000.
The Eclipse GSX is equal to the Talon TSI AWD. The only differences are badging and minor cosmetic changes.Car and Driver
It is a fairly heavy car, at 3108 lbs. Being based off a FWD-car, the AWD version does still exhibit moderate understeer, but it is easily controllable. It's got the Mitsubishi 4G63t motor producing 190 HP and 195 lb-ft. of torque. 1989 to 1994 models were immune to the famed crankwalk that plagues second generation cars. All said, the first generation (1G) DSM's were no worse than any other car of it's time for reliability. I have found this in my personal car, a 1992 TSI AWD, and it appears to be the common consensus among forums and people I know.
If you choose to do so, the DSM is also a very easily modified car. Small amounts of money can return considerable power.
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
Yes they are Right hand drive.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
To be honest, I've never cared much for the Eclipse/Talon/Laser trio. I'm not saying they are bad cars as they certainly are not, but they just seem so overdone today. It is part of the reason why I went with a Vee-Dub a while back, as they don't get a whole lot of credit, and generally aren't looked for specifically when it comes to trouble with the cops.
Three of my friends had one (two with an Eclipse, the other a Talon), and they were both pretty cool cars. I didn't get to drive, but I was kinda disappointed with them compared to my Jetta (am I not a German snob or what?). Plenty quick, plenty of fun, but it just didn't suit me and what I want in a car, particularly for a couple of kids in High School.
Three of my friends had one (two with an Eclipse, the other a Talon), and they were both pretty cool cars. I didn't get to drive, but I was kinda disappointed with them compared to my Jetta (am I not a German snob or what?). Plenty quick, plenty of fun, but it just didn't suit me and what I want in a car, particularly for a couple of kids in High School.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
You know what you should get, then...
A MK1 GTI. That'd be unique. And cheap. And simplistic. And a manual. It, unfortunately, wouldn't even be as fast as your current VW.
...I've actually been considering this:
MKIV GTI 1.8T
or this...
MKIV Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T
This would be a case where I can afford the car and the gas without question, but insurance would be the Achilles heel in most cases.
Toronado
I've looked into Corrados quite a bit, and they have been high on my list for some time. I'd be looking for a '93 or '94 SLC with the 5-speed manual, but they are becoming harder to find in good shape with lower miles, and even more difficult is one without modifications of some kind. I would be downgrading to a MKII chassis, and that really isn't something I'd want to do, however it and the old-school Jetta GLI 16V are the only MKII models that really get my blood flowing. Don't get me wrong, I love old VWs, but you're getting further into replacement costs there, beyond where the MKIII I already have is...
I'm really not in a huge rush to change anything. I could fix my car and drive her till she dies (or at least until I'm done with school), or I could try to get something new. I'm keeping my options open at the moment, but it would be spring at the absolute earliest before I could get anything. Student loans cause problems, as I don't like to be in debt, and "Jenna" is nearly paid-off. We'll see what happens.
...As I noted in a previous entry, my Aunt is looking for a new car too. I'll be going with her in most cases to go car shopping, as I'm trying to convince her to buy new, she wants "slightly used." I'll be sure to go to a few places and check out some cars for me, but we're going to be looking at bread-and-butter cars there. You know, your Accords, Auras, Impalas, Altimas, etc...
///M-Spec
Staff Emeritus
- 4,928
Oh Duke and ///M-Spec. When will you learn.
Oh M5Power, how far are you going to throw your toys this month?The 2G TL (and mechanical twin the CL) is compromised much toward comfort than handling. Even the 2G Type S has plenty of body motion and turns mushy when pushed. It feels good until about 8/10ths, then it pretty much checks out. But it is comfy, quick, fairly well built and loaded with toys. The sport seats are fantastic with lots of side bolstering, but unfortunately the rest of the car doesn't live up to the racy seats.
It's the sort of 'sporty car' for people whose idea of sportiness is limited to flooring the accelerator pedal while traveling down a straight road. If that's what suits your taste, then more power to you. If not, then you might want to check elsewhere.
The most important thing is to drive the cars. People are going to recommend what they like and that's fine, but at the end of the day, you are going to go home with the car and only you can determine what's important and what is fluff.
M
- 23,800
- Philippines
Ye gods, leave a few days and a full-on flamefest starts...
We've got the Ford re-badge. The fact that it was a Mazda underneath and inside was the only reason we actually considered it. There are package differences, but the suspension tuning and ECU tuning are about the same. Yes, it's ungodly slow against anything with actual balls, but it's a riot on the race track.
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A Mark I Golf would be a dream... but how much would you have to spend on restoration? I suppose, though, you could do it a little bit at a time. Still, while it was nice back in its time, you might be disappointed with its performance as compared to more modern cars. What was good in the roaring 70's is often just lukewarm now... unless you're willing to invest in some trick mods...
Like the man said: test-drive... you might like it, you might be disappointed.
Of course, if you're going for an old banger, ever consider a Datsun 510?
We've got the Ford re-badge. The fact that it was a Mazda underneath and inside was the only reason we actually considered it. There are package differences, but the suspension tuning and ECU tuning are about the same. Yes, it's ungodly slow against anything with actual balls, but it's a riot on the race track.
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A Mark I Golf would be a dream... but how much would you have to spend on restoration? I suppose, though, you could do it a little bit at a time. Still, while it was nice back in its time, you might be disappointed with its performance as compared to more modern cars. What was good in the roaring 70's is often just lukewarm now... unless you're willing to invest in some trick mods...
Like the man said: test-drive... you might like it, you might be disappointed.
Of course, if you're going for an old banger, ever consider a Datsun 510?
- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
Has anyone suggested a late model Toyota Celica?
- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
Or a Chevy Cobalt SS?
^I like it.^
Fantastic deal on a Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, only 10 miles on the odo.
^I like it.^
Fantastic deal on a Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, only 10 miles on the odo.
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Monte Carlo
Niky
I've lived with a Toyota for the last 12 years ('95 Camry), and generally speaking, Toyota products of the past decade or so have been kinda disappointing. I thought about a Celica GT for a bit, by I generally prefer the far older Celicas of the late '80s (RWD) and early '90s. If I could find something nice I'd want to give it a shot, no question there, but they aren't very high on my list.
...As for the RSX, it would certainly fit the mold, but I'd rather have a late-model Integra over the RSX. I know they depreciate pretty slowly, so I'd have to look for a pretty early model to get one at a "decent" price, beyond that I have no idea what insurance would be like.
Monte Carlo
Oh yeah, I'd love to get one of those. But they are too new, presumably too fast for "reasonable" insurance prices, and just a bit above and beyond where I want to spend.
$10K is probably the limit now (flexible a bit), as that would leave me with a pretty reasonable loan amount that isn't too outrageous, based of course on the re-sale value of my car ($2200-2500). If I can get a good deal on insurance, that would be great too, as I already am paying just shy of $200 a month on the Jetta for full coverage. I'm probably going to go down to my insurance agent next week and have them quote me on three fairly standard cars that I've been looking at... BMW 323i, Chevrolet Camaro Z/28, and maybe a Jetta GLS 1.8T Wagon or a GTI, and just for the hell of it an ol' Mazda Protoge5.
I'm really not ready to just jump-in and buy something, as I would probably need to get a leg-up on selling my car, finding something worthwhile, and thereafter getting everything sorted out. Test drives will be it for a while, and I'm looking forward to it. I may need to call my VW/Audi Used dealer friend and see if he can find me what I'm looking for, and give my other friend a heads-up when he is out at the auctions in the spring and summer...
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- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
It isn't that they are bad cars, but the blue oval is a no-go around here. Our experiences with Ford products, along with the family bias against it (most families in Michigan choose their branding very carefully) pretty much puts it out of competition. I'd consider a Mustang, and that would be stretching it at best, however more often than not I'm probably going to prefer a GM product in the comparable category.
