Formula 1 2021-2022 Off-Season and Mid-season break threadFormula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Welcome aboard Porsche

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Max and his father are Porsche GT clients. Max has had a GT2 RS Clubsport and I think his dad still owns one as well.

If anything, it leads more to speculate where Max goes after F1, not Porsche coming aboard.
 
Personally think we might see Red Bull try and go back to Renault for 2023 season depending on how competitive the Honda is this season. Heard positive things about the new Renault PU such as it being lighter, more compact and it working in a broader range of temperatures. They seem to have sorted out the reliability even though they aimed for higher power over reliability. They've probably got the smallest budget by far out of the PU manufacturers but could be really strong so will be amazing job by the people at Viry if they pull it off. Looking forward to see how the new Alpine looks on Monday.

Ferrari seems bullish about their PU, Mercedes seem quietly confident while Honda seem surprised by the others response to the new fuel so they may slip down the order but Marko was recently positive about progress with PU so not long until we find out who got it right.

Given Red Bull are making serious investments for their own power unit for 2026, would make sense for Red Bull and Porsche to collaborate to give them a better chance of being competitive against the more experienced F1 manufacturers. Last thing they would want is to be in the position Honda found itself in 2015 after spending a fortune.
 
Saidur_Ali
Personally think we might see Red Bull try and go back to Renault for 2023 season depending on how competitive the Honda is this season. Heard positive things about the new Renault PU such as it being lighter, more compact and it working in a broader range of temperatures. They seem to have sorted out the reliability even though they aimed for higher power over reliability. They've probably got the smallest budget by far out of the PU manufacturers but could be really strong so will be amazing job by the people at Viry if they pull it off. Looking forward to see how the new Alpine looks on Monday.

Ferrari seems bullish about their PU, Mercedes seem quietly confident while Honda seem surprised by the others response to the new fuel so they may slip down the order but Marko was recently positive about progress with PU so not long until we find out who got it right.

Given Red Bull are making serious investments for their own power unit for 2026, would make sense for Red Bull and Porsche to collaborate to give them a better chance of being competitive against the more experienced F1 manufacturers. Last thing they would want is to be in the position Honda found itself in 2015 after spending a fortune.
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I cannot see any circumstances ever that would see Red Bull go back to Renault. None at all.
 
MagpieRacer
I cannot see any circumstances ever that would see Red Bull go back to Renault. None at all.
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They will want the most competitive power unit they can get. The reason why they split up with Renault in the first place is due to Renault's F1 power unit development budget was significantly smaller than Honda and their competition so they thought they would have no chance of winning. However, with the power units being frozen this season, whichever is quickest and has desirable packaging characteristics at the end of this season will be sort after by all customer teams in order of availability. If Honda deliver a great PU then there will be no reason to change but if they find themselves having the slowest PU, then Red Bull will likely want to change.

Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault all have made comments saying this has been biggest changes they have made to the PU while on Honda side, it seems more of an adaptation and slower version of what they had last year. Oddly though, it worked out quite well Honda quitting when they did for Red Bull as I doubt Max would have won the championship as Honda would likely have not fast-tracked their 2022 PU for 2021 and power units probably wouldn't have got frozen. The others are going to bring their 2022-2023 power unit design for this season. Ferrari and Renault seem to have taken the most risky approach as they know they are allowed to improve reliability so may pay handsomely if it works out for them.
 
Saidur_Ali
If it came down to that then Red Bull could get Honda to pull out completely and then Renault would be obliged to supply them.
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All that would do is ensure they always had an outdated engine because if Renault didn't treat them like a works team before when it was a mutual relationship they sure as hell wouldn't when it was a forced one.
 
Northstar
All that would do is ensure they always had an outdated engine because if Renault didn't treat them like a works team before when it was a mutual relationship they sure as hell wouldn't when it was a forced one.
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Last time they were with Renault, they used the new spec engine before Renault themselves. :lol:

The power units will be frozen too so will be a good solution until the new regulations where they will make their own.
 
Saidur_Ali
Last time they were with Renault, they used the new spec engine before Renault themselves. :lol:
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They also had very public spats and wound up naming their engines Tag Heuer instead of Renault because they didn't want to advertise anything Renault related...
 
Northstar
They also had very public spats and wound up naming their engines Tag Heuer instead of Renault because they didn't want to advertise anything Renault related...
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McLaren had marketing deal with Renault but they don't with Mercedes so no branding. Red Bull won a championship with Honda but they won't have the Honda name on it this year. I don't think they really care about names of stuff but the money it provides when it comes to marketing deals. It is always about having the best performing power unit they can get and challenge for victories hence why they are taking effort to create their own when they didn't want to.

If Renault or Ferrari managed to build a rocket PU for this season, I think they will be trying their best to immediately secure a deal for next season. They don't seem to have the luxury of the great packaging advantage of the Honda this season as Mercedes seem to have upped their game in that regard and also power so they need to ace their chassis performance more than ever before if they want to be competitive.
 
Saidur_Ali
McLaren had marketing deal with Renault but they don't with Mercedes so no branding. Red Bull won a championship with Honda but they won't have the Honda name on it this year. I don't think they really care about names of stuff but the money it provides when it comes to marketing deals. It is always about having the best performing power unit they can get and challenge for victories hence why they are taking effort to create their own when they didn't want to.

If Renault or Ferrari managed to build a rocket PU for this season, I think they will be trying their best to immediately secure a deal for next season. They don't seem to have the luxury of the great packaging advantage of the Honda this season as Mercedes seem to have upped their game in that regard and also power so they need to ace their chassis performance more than ever before if they want to be competitive.
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It'll just never happen. Red Bull aren't spending millions on a power unit facility to go and buy Renault engines. That relationship is dead and will never revive.
 
Saidur_Ali
McLaren had marketing deal with Renault but they don't with Mercedes so no branding. Red Bull won a championship with Honda but they won't have the Honda name on it this year. I don't think they really care about names of stuff but the money it provides when it comes to marketing deals. It is always about having the best performing power unit they can get and challenge for victories hence why they are taking effort to create their own when they didn't want to.

If Renault or Ferrari managed to build a rocket PU for this season, I think they will be trying their best to immediately secure a deal for next season. They don't seem to have the luxury of the great packaging advantage of the Honda this season as Mercedes seem to have upped their game in that regard and also power so they need to ace their chassis performance more than ever before if they want to be competitive.
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I would say yes & no. Honda formally withdrew from Formula 1, so that's why we're not seeing Honda anymore. However, thanks to HRC merging 4-wheel efforts into their motorcycle base, Honda is still technically on the RB & AT as 'HRC' as part of their internal collaboration that brands Honda PUs as Red Bull's, tmu.

Because of that, I don't see Red Bull seeking out Ferrari or Renault unless the Honda/RB units just flat out fall apart. The deal between Honda & RB is supposed to run up until 2025 when the new power units come onboard the following year, iirc.
 
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Spacegoat
Hopefully the Andretti bid does end up getting approval from the FIA. It'd be nice to have another team on the grid.
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Pretending it gets the green light, I wonder what power unit they’d go with? Andretti is with Honda in Indycar, but Honda is “gone”, transferring their resources into RB’s powertrains. Would they go with RB power to keep as-close-as-possible with Honda specialists? Renault for a potentially more lucrative deal since they don’t supply anyone other than their own factory?
 
MagpieRacer
It'll just never happen. Red Bull aren't spending millions on a power unit facility to go and buy Renault engines. That relationship is dead and will never revive.
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They are doing all this to ensure they have the chance to have a competitive power unit as they know Mercedes won't supply them and they think Honda was their best option at the time. It will be buying PUs until end of current regulations so not sure what spending millions on their own facility has got to do with that point. They can't predict the future on how well the other manufacturers will do as Honda was probably overall the most consistently strong PU last season so makes sense to keep that continuity and have their options open.
McLaren
I would say yes & no. Honda formally withdrew from Formula 1, so that's why we're not seeing Honda anymore. However, thanks to HRC merging 4-wheel efforts into their motorcycle base, Honda is still technically on the RB & AT as 'HRC' as part of their internal collaboration that brands Honda PUs as Red Bull's, tmu.

Because of that, I don't see Red Bull seeking out Ferrari or Renault unless the Honda/RB units just flat out fall apart. The deal between Honda & RB is supposed to run up until 2025 when the new power units come onboard the following year, iirc.
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Red Bull got their new title sponsor in Oracle.

Honda are doing Red Bull a favour. If it is no longer favourable, then Red Bull will go to alternatives. If Honda do a great job, they will stay. Red Bull only care about having the most competitive package so they can challenge to win titles.
 
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Saidur_Ali
They are doing all this to ensure they have the chance to have a competitive power unit as they know Mercedes won't supply them and they think Honda was their best option at the time. It will be buying PUs until end of current regulations so not sure what spending millions on their own facility has got to do with that point. They can't predict the future on how well the other manufacturers will do as Honda was probably overall the most consistently strong PU last season so makes sense to keep that continuity and have their options open.

Red Bull got their new title sponsor in Oracle.

Honda are doing Red Bull a favour. If it is no longer favourable, then Red Bull will go to alternatives. If Honda do a great job, they will stay. Red Bull only care about having the most competitive package so they can challenge to win titles.
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Honda are still running and maintaing the PU until 2025. https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-changed-red-bull-honda-f1-deal-will-work-from-2022/

What will happen regarding the RB Powertrains is what will be so attractive to VAG, a ready made facility in conjunction with a team they can form a successful works partnership with. There is absolutely zero point from a Red Bull perspective to stop using the current engines and buy from Renault or Ferrari.
 
MagpieRacer
Honda are still running and maintaing the PU until 2025. https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-changed-red-bull-honda-f1-deal-will-work-from-2022/

What will happen regarding the RB Powertrains is what will be so attractive to VAG, a ready made facility in conjunction with a team they can form a successful works partnership with. There is absolutely zero point from a Red Bull perspective to stop using the current engines and buy from Renault or Ferrari.
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The incentive will be if there is more performance to be had elsewhere. It will be a no brainer if they can get better performance, if not there is no point.
 
Saidur_Ali
Red Bull got their new title sponsor in Oracle.
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That doesn't really seem to make any difference. If Honda were officially still around, it could be Oracle Red Bull Racing Honda.
Saidur_Ali
Honda are doing Red Bull a favour. If it is no longer favourable, then Red Bull will go to alternatives. If Honda do a great job, they will stay. Red Bull only care about having the most competitive package so they can challenge to win titles.
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That is basically what I said; if the engines fall apart, they will go elsewhere. Until then, they have an agreement til' the new PUs come in.
 
Red Bull won’t go back to Renault. It’s either Porsche or they build their own.

Edit: misread, 2023 is even less likely
 
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I don't think it would be possible to go to Renault for their PUs - first, because RB forced them into not being allowed to develop their engine, and secondly because RB have been set up as a PU supplier already. If Red Bull tried to say 'we don't have an engine supplier', I'm sure that all manufacturers will be pointing their fingers at a certain factory in Milton Keynes and saying 'what's that then?'
 
The Ferrari is my favourite from all the new cars. I like that Mercedes has gone back to silver purely because I think it suits the car better but from the photos I've seen of the Ferrari it has some late '80s looks to it. It looks simpler and better for it.
 
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