Formula 1 Grand Prix de Monaco 2016

[Samus]

Valid points, My issue is with Lewis still steering to the right (obviously to gain traction and not lose time) And Riccardo let of the throttle to avoid contact. Is this legal enough, probably but just about. Bit dirty though in my opinion (you can see the second picture Dan steering more to avoid contact). Would love to hear his opinion on this.

Hamilton is entitled to move across the track as long as he leaves a gap. Evidently he did (just), Ricciardo lifts because he has the wiggle, you can already see him struggling to hold the rear under traction even before Hamilton moves across. He isn't steering to avoid the contact in that still, he's constantly moving the wheel both directions to try and stop the rear sliding.

Stills can be misleading. In this one for example it looks like he's steering back towards Hamilton when he wasn't, he was just fighting the rear.

 

[mustafur]

I highly doubt Ricciardo cares much about that incident not that he was going to get past anyway, the race was lost before that.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Great race, great drive from Hamilton, Cruel on Ricciardo who had a great weekend, Perez my driver of the day. 👍

 

[twitcher]

He still had to look after the ultra softs. He made those last an eternity.

That should be standard practice for an F1 driver. Sorry, but I can't view conserving tires as "cream rising to the top."

Ham drove a great race no doubt, I just trying to realistic about the achievement, and keep it in perspective. From a driving perspective, all he did was keep it off the walls and conserve tires....Half the drivers in the field could have won that race had they been in Ham's position. That's why I can't consider it as "cream rising to the top." He didn't do anything extraordinary.

 

[Demon Drone]

That should be standard practice for an F1 driver. Sorry, but I can't view conserving tires as "cream rising to the top."

Ham drove a great race no doubt, I just trying to realistic about the achievement, and keep it in perspective. From a driving perspective, all he did was keep it off the walls and conserve tires....Half the drivers in the field could have won that race had they been in Ham's position. That's why I can't consider it as "cream rising to the top." He didn't do anything extraordinary.

That's fair.

 

[Dodzzz]

Daniel got too excited, put the throttle more than the tire could handle and oversteered, and he has to back off.. the gap is still there, even though it's pretty tight. thus no punishment for Lewis. IMHO

 

[_Springy_]

Looks like whoever posted the on-board screenshot several pages back, was in fact a tad selective. Watching the on-board replay again, Ricciardo certainly did get far enough alongside Hamilton. However Daniel's wiggle seemed to be more from a lack of traction, than evasive action; and he'd not have been able to pass round the outside at Tabac. Neither did he have enough of a run to get past before Tabac. Lewis was a touch dirty but he left just enough room, so I'd still say it was the correct call by the stewards.

 

[twitcher]

Daniel got too excited, put the throttle more than the tire could handle and oversteered, and he has to back off.. the gap is still there, even though it's pretty tight. thus no punishment for Lewis. IMHO

Had Lewis not just previously been off the circuit, I would agree. However, being as he had just cut the chicane, I can't view that as a legit move....I've had way to many time penalties in pCARS as a result of out braking myself to respect when that kind of crap happens in real life

 

[TRGTspecialist]

This maybe hyperbole but is that the biggest pit screw up in F1 history? I can't recall a more egregious error from a team.

Ferrari and Eddie Irvine at the 1999 European GP springs to mind. An even longer cock-up, at a crucial stage of the championship battle no less.



(It's a shame the ITV version of this doesn't appear to be online anywhere, from memory Brundle has a great line when the two guys on the right rear are arguing about the tyre, something along the lines of "stop having a committee meeting about it and just put it on the car!")

 

[sems4arsenal]

Hamilton is entitled to move across the track as long as he leaves a gap. Evidently he did (just), Ricciardo lifts because he has the wiggle, you can already see him struggling to hold the rear under traction even before Hamilton moves across. He isn't steering to avoid the contact in that still, he's constantly moving the wheel both directions to try and stop the rear sliding.

Stills don't tell the whole story. In this one for example it looks like he's steering back towards Hamilton when he wasn't, he was just fighting the rear.

That's the part that I'm so sure I agree with, he was weaving because his rear didn't have enough traction correct, but I felt had Lewis squeezing him made him let go of the throttle. So the point is did he let go of the throttle because he lost too much traction or was it because he thought he would crash into Lewis or the wall, but he did have the front wing along side Lewis when he was squeezing him. It's not clear cut by any stretch but I felt it was more dirty than not.

 

[Samus]

Had Lewis not just previously been off the circuit, I would agree. However, being as he had just cut the chicane, I can't view that as a legit move....I've had way to many time penalties in pCARS to respect when that kind of crap happens in real life

Not sure what you mean, Hamilton quite evidently lost time in the chicane, not gained.

 

[twitcher]

Not sure what you mean, Hamilton quite evidently lost time in the chicane, not gained.

Gained or lost, doesn't matter to me. He had just been off the circuit, lost momentum, and chopped Ricci upon rejoining. That's garbage in my opinion.

 

[RacingLine]

They should have just taken eachother out and we could of seen Checo taking the win from very far back, anyone remember his starting position?

 

[Demon Drone]

Ferrari and Eddie Irvine at the 1999 European GP springs to mind. An even longer cock-up, at a crucial stage of the championship battle no less.



(It's a shame the ITV version of this doesn't appear to be online anywhere, from memory Brundle has a great line when the two guys on the right rear are arguing about the tyre, something along the lines of "stop having a committee meeting about it and just put it on the car!")

Wow that's pretty bad. Thanks for sharing! As a side note, damn I miss that sound and those cars. Oh well I guess.

 

[Dennisch]

Gained or lost, doesn't matter to me. He had just been off the circuit, lost momentum, and chopped Ricci upon rejoining. That's garbage in my opinion.

All what happened in the race is completely overshadowed by this horrible moment.



Can't take Hamilton serious again. Ever. No matter what.

 

[CinnamonOD]

They should have just taken eachother out and we could of seen Checo taking the win from very far back, anyone remember his starting position?

7th

 

[Milouse]

There is a mess in the chaos, as they achieved to get the WTF Bonus Pit Time (between the 19th and 23th of pit timing)

 

[Samus]

That's the part that I'm so sure I agree with, he was weaving because his rear didn't have enough traction correct, but I felt had Lewis squeezing him made him let go of the throttle. So the point is did he let go of the throttle because he lost too much traction or was it because he thought he would crash into Lewis or the wall, but he did have the front wing along side Lewis when he was squeezing him. It's not clear cut by any stretch but I felt it was more dirty than not.

It was certainly hard from Hamilton, not going to disagree there, but It isn't what I'd personally consider dirty. Ricciardo was on the wetter part of the track and was struggling with traction the whole time, long before the gap closed. He may have lifted off because he thought Hamilton was going to keep closing the gap but as long he doesn't, it's fair.

Gained or lost, doesn't matter to me. He had just been off the circuit, lost momentum, and chopped Ricci upon rejoining. That's garbage in my opinion.

He didn't do any "chopping" though, Once he fully rejoins the track RIC is directly behind him, not already alongside.

At that point it's a normal situation, a faster car is attacking a slower one. It's not like he swerved violently across the track, he moved to the middle and forced RIC onto the wet track where he lost rear traction.

Hard but fair IMO.

 

[twitcher]

Force India mechanics working hard at dismantelling....the two women clowning for the camera...why does this remind me of a typical construction site

 

[twitcher]

It was certainly hard from Hamilton, not going to disagree there, but It isn't what I'd personally consider dirty. Ricciardo was on the wetter part of the track and was struggling with traction the whole time, long before the gap closed. He may have lifted off because he thought Hamilton was going to keep closing the gap but as long he doesn't, it's fair.



He didn't do any "chopping" though, Once he fully rejoins the track RIC is directly behind him, not already alongside.

At that point it's a normal situation, a faster car is attacking a slower one. It's not like he swerved violently across the track, he moved to the middle and forced RIC onto the wet track where he lost rear traction.

Hard but fair IMO.

It's only fair if you accept that Lewis gets no penalty what so ever for cutting the chicane. Like I said, I've had too many time penalties in video games, where track limits are much more strongly enforced, to be able to respect that kind of driving in real life. Just my opinion though.

 

[Samus]

It's only fair if you accept that Lewis gets no penalty what so ever for cutting the chicane. Like I said, I've had too many time penalties in video games, where track limits are much more strongly enforced, to be able to respect that kind of driving in real life. Just my opinion though.

Like I already said he didn't gain time, he evidently lost time. This is not a video game with code deciding things, humans were able to analyse it and decide he gained no advantage. No advantage, no penalty. That's how it works.

 

[twitcher]

Like I already said he didn't gain time, he evidently lost time. This is not a video game with code deciding things, humans were able to analyse it and decide he gained no advantage. No advantage, no penalty. That's how it works.

The advantage that he gained was that he was able to continue. Had the track limits been defined by a wall and not a painted line, he would not have driven away from that. Not to have a go at you personally, but that attitude and approach you're taking to him going off the circuit is a perfect example of how lax the sport as a whole - the race directors, the drivers, the fans, everyone - has become in regards to track limits.

If it's a "no time no advantage" approach, why bother navigating the chicane at all? Keep the same delta through the sector, but just straight line the chicane every time....saves on brakes and tire wear.

Edit: I'm basically saying that Lewis out brakes himself to the point he went off the track, and payed zero penalty for it. That's what I have issue with.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Mercedes' blunder in strategy last year cost Hamilton the race last year. This time, they all but made up for it. Yes, it's fair to say RB's screw-up proved to be the difference but Mercedes placed pressure on them in the first place by keeping Hamilton out there on the full wets. RB became flustered on what to do and that bit them at a critical juncture.

You do have to feel for Ricciardo because even with that blunder, Hamilton barely got by him. If RB just had any sticker tires ready to go, even a slow stop would've done no harm.

As for the incident at the chicane, Hamilton definitely lost whatever advantage he had gained on the exit. Otherwise, there would have been no need for a defensive move. That move, in itself, I consider naughty but legal. If an accident had occurred, I would've leaned towards racing incident because of the track conditions.

Final note, Sauber. May have a wee bit of a problem there with your drivers.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Feel for Ricciardo, I didn't expect him to have been so close to rejoining in 1st after the stop, it just shows how much quicker he was once he had a clear track. Baffling performance from Rosberg which he didn't really have an excuse for but surely Mercedes will be able to see an issue.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Edit: I'm basically saying that Lewis out brakes himself to the point he went off the track, and payed zero penalty for it. That's what I have issue with.

If he'd consistently cut the track I'd say you had a point... but as it is he was on slicks on a damp track following a cooldown period... drivers do cut that chicane accidentally, just as Hamilton did. The car behind seemingly had warmer tyres and was able to close on him but couldn't make it through the gap that was left, not much more to it than that.

 

[Samus]

The advantage that he gained was that he was able to continue. Had the track limits been defined by a wall and not a painted line, he would not have driven away from that. Not to have a go at you personally, but that attitude and approach you're taking to him going off the circuit is a perfect example of how lax the sport as a whole - the race directors, the drivers, the fans, everyone - has become in regards to track limits.

If it's a "no time no advantage" approach, why bother navigating the chicane at all? Keep the same delta through the sector, but just straight line the chicane every time....saves on brakes and tire wear.

Edit: I'm basically saying that Lewis out brakes himself to the point he went off the track, and payed zero penalty for it. That's what I have issue with.

Well that is a more widespread issue that I generally agree on but it's not like the whole of Monaco is a car park. Most of it doesn't allow you to make a mistake and get away with it. That corner basically exists to slow the cars down but the location means having barriers around it all just isn't safe, imagine some of those accidents down the hill over the years if they went straight into armco at the edge of the corner, doesn't bear thinking about.

It's a symptom of the entire track being 80 years outdated for F1 racing.

Anyway on this one I'm just going by the current rules, that's all we can go on. You are allowed to make the odd mistake and not get penalised as long as you don't gain. Do it consistently and you would get punished if the track doesn't do it for them.

I certainly agree in general they need to be much more strict on track limits and what is an advantage.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Race result prediction:...

Jolyon Palmer + 2 laps...

Palmer to complete the race though... hmmm

Ah tell't thee!!!

 

[Peter.]

How are grid fillers a better thing?

We need new teams like HAAS. Teams with character, decent drivers, decent funds, and decent preparation.
Teams like Sauber add absolutely nothing to F1. At least Manor have character.

Bit harsh don't you think? Sounds like what people have been saying about Manor/Marussia for years now before bagging a good engine and driver.

Sauber are just flat broke and their drivers, and car are mediocre and boring. They certainly weren't a waste of space when they had Kobayashi behind the wheel. They're still far more put together than Manor, or a lot of teams people wouldn't consider a waste of space in the past (Minardi and the latter years of Jordan come to mind).

Back to the race now, Hamilton did a great job getting the wets to last that long. For people who want to discredit him keeping Ricciardo behind him and making the Ultra Softs last, you can't say he didn't do a brilliant job before that. Of course he only won today with some help from Red Bull absolutely ruining Ricciardo's race. Today you have a situation where Ricciardo and Hamilton both deserved to win. Gutted for him after getting his first pole.

Also lol Palmer.

 

[Tak[TEC]]

To me it's that there was a gap but he was coming at it from an angle and then had the wiggle.

The gap is always there, but Ricciardo is not square onto the straight, he's still coming at an angle from the chicane. Correct decision for me, and he obviously lost time by cutting the chicane, not gaining it, so correct there as well.

The main question I have is what would have happened if he didn't get that puddle of water and let off the throttle? I'm more interested in how it would have been treated if Riccardo just held his ground (which since the nose of the car is at least 1/3 along Hamilton) and probably sent Hamilton into the wall. Who would actually be blamed, since Hamilton is actually turning in on him and even though he could have stayed to the left?

Also WOW he was CALLED IN?!? Might have to start looking for better team buddy, that's the dumbest thing i've heard a team do in a long time, calling in a driver at the last second only to not be prepared themselves

 

[_Springy_]

Feel for Ricciardo, I didn't expect him to have been so close to rejoining in 1st after the stop, it just shows how much quicker he was once he had a clear track. Baffling performance from Rosberg which he didn't really have an excuse for but surely Mercedes will be able to see an issue.

Mercedes already stated during the race that Rosberg had an issue with his brakes during his first stint, which is why he was so slow compared to Hamilton, and allowed him to pass.