Formula One Eni Magyar Nagydij 2011

[Terronium-12]

But that was only because of a mistake from Sebastian.

A win is still a win.

I'm actually more excited about the pace of the Ferrari and McLaren going into this event...I want a repeat of last week's race!

 

[Peter.]

But that was only because of a mistake from Sebastian.

He was ahead of Vettel from the start, even in Seb didn't have his off, he'd have surely, unless RB would've gone all team orders on Webber, still finished behind Mark.

 

[F1 fan]

He was ahead of Vettel from the start, even in Seb didn't have his off, he'd have surely, unless RB would've gone all team orders on Webber, still finished behind Mark.

Not true. Webber was ahead as he hadn't pitted under the safety car. Vettel was leading before the safety car, pitted and came out behind Webber. Then Vettel dropped too far behind on the restart and was given a penalty. After his drive through, Sebastian got stuck behind Alonso, who was slower. Webber got some good running in clear air and built up a gap and pitted. He rejoined at the front.

Edit: 1000 posts.

 

[Peter.]

Not true. Webber was ahead as he hadn't pitted under the safety car. Vettel was leading before the safety car, pitted and came out behind Webber. Then Vettel dropped too far behind on the restart and was given a penalty. After his drive through, Sebastian got stuck behind Alonso, who was slower. Webber got some good running in clear air and built up a gap and pitted. He rejoined at the front.

Edit: 1000 posts.

Ohh silly me, I was talking about the last race at the Nurburgring, you're talking about Hungary last year. Webber did win that race at the expense of Vettel being stuck behind Fernando after his drive thru, but remember that Mark did a hell of a stint on the option tyres, doing about 40 laps on them, lapping very quickly in the process, over a second a lap faster than Fernando, even at the end of his long epic stint still considerably faster than Fernando. It was a great drive by Mark, and he deserved that win, and i'd be unsurprised if he did that again on Sunday. Vettel seems to have lost his pace, and unless Red Bull interevenes, Webber would finish ahead in the race if he outqualifies him.

 

[F1 fan]

He was ahead of Vettel from the start, even in Seb didn't have his off, he'd have surely, unless RB would've gone all team orders on Webber, still finished behind Mark.

I don't think Vettel has lost his pace. His race on Sunday was undoubtedly the only real black mark on his season so far. We'll see this weekend whether you're right. But I doubt it.

 

[Peter.]

I don't think Vettel has lost his pace. His race on Sunday was undoubtedly the only real black mark on his season so far. We'll see this weekend whether you're right. But I doubt it.

Silverstone? If it weren't for "maintain the gap" Webber would've beaten Vettel. Webber took pole for the race, and not even a second run by Vettel could snatch it from him. I'm sorry, I know you're an avid Vettel fan, but I think that Mark has got the upper hand now, and only bad luck in the races, team orders from Red Bull and/or Vettel sorting himself out will prevent him from outpacing Vettel once again.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If it weren't for "maintain the gap" Webber would've beaten Vettel.

I see you are once again demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. While it's true that Webber was given team orders not to pass Vettel, he ignored them. He still didn't pass Vettel.

 

[Peter.]

I see you are once again demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. While it's true that Webber was given team orders not to pass Vettel, he ignored them. He still didn't pass Vettel.

He backed out of a move on the last lap at Stowe. It'd have been a risky one, but it was somewhat doable. What I saw was Webber at first ignoring them, then toning down a bit, before deciding not to bother again. I think he could've made a move stick.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He backed out of a move on the last lap at Stowe. It'd have been a risky one, but it was somewhat doable. What I saw was Webber at first ignoring them, then toning down a bit, before deciding not to bother again. I think he could've made a move stick.

He evidently felt the risk was not worth it, and decided to settle for third rather than risk a collision for the sake of three points.

 

[Peter.]

He evidently felt the risk was not worth it, and decided to settle for third rather than risk a collision for the sake of three points.

Which would have been somewhat influenced by "maintain the gap". Just imagine:

MW: "1 lap to go, let's pass this guy for 2nd, shouldn't be too hard.
CH: "Maintain the gap Mark"
MW: Screw that, I want my 2nd place.
later..
MW: Damn, I just can't get by easily. Know what? I'll just not take the risk of collision and follow the team orders after all, it'd suck even more if I binned it into Seb, and i'd probably be out of a job next race.

 

[Anghammarad]

Vettel will win. No one can match his pace in qualifying and it is impossible to pass on the track so whoever leads into turn one will win.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

it is impossible to pass on the track

No, it's not. We've seen passing there before. And the DRS zone has been placed on the main straight. Plus, the Pirellis are more durable than they were a few races ago, and we haven't really seen how these tyres will behave in hot conditions.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

If dry, I think it will be a straight fight between Red Bull and Ferrari given the nature of the track. McLaren will be close, but ultimately tyre degradation will hold them back. I hope Germany was a one off in that respect, the tyres have not changed significantly. The choice of tyres was too conservative though and the low track temperatures lessened wear as well.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Vettel will win. No one can match his pace in qualifying and it is impossible to pass on the track so whoever leads into turn one will win.

cunning, cunning ...

 

[Anghammarad]

cunning, cunning ...

Schhhh. Don't jinx my jinx.

 

[F1 fan]

Schhhh. Don't jinx my jinx.

I'm jinxing your jinx .

 

[Hun200kmh]

History proves your most successful anti-jinx was the Airbus one. But I won't say more, the field of scientific jinxing is somewhat obscure to me

PS - Anyway, I don't predict anything. I'll only state my hope and that is simply for a repeat of the German GP's 3 way battle at the front, between 3 different cars. If RBR, Ferrari and McLaren show up again evenly matched, we're in for a treat. Whoever wins.


EDIT: This is what I'm talking about!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Not at all! Its one of the best circuits they go to in my opinion and it will be shame if its ever taken off the calendar.

For me the Hungaroring has the following positives:
-Its a "drivers circuit", i.e. its fantastic fun to drive as the corner combinations flow so well and really challenge the driver, just like Monaco, the old Nordschleife, Oulton Park, etc.
-It represents the North-Eastern European round, as many Finns, Poles, Russians, Austrians, etc don't have a GP and its in a great spot for them all.
-It has frequently thrown up a bizarre race and usually has a new race winner every year.
-Contrary to popular opinion, overtaking is fairly frequent at this circuit compared to most modern F1 circuits. It has 1 more overtaking spot than Catalunya, Monaco, Valencia and Singapore do (in theory those have 0 proper overtaking spots, though they do have frequent places).
-It has produced some very famous moments in F1 racing, e.g. Piquet overtaking Senna on the outside, Mansell taking Senna after a blinding race, Damon Hill sticking an Arrows to near-victory, Schumacher winning on a qualifying-pace 4-stop strategy...

Funny how this track was panned by the drivers when it was added to the calendar back in the day because it was a stupid slow Mickey mouse track!

The fact that I agree with you that it does look interesting now shows how downhill track design has gone in recent years.

 

[MitchZ06]

I'm hoping like hell McLaren can bag a second win in a row (never was a fan of F1, strange how I'm finding it interesting...)

 

[dhandeh]

I will take this now for the final positions on Sunday.

 

[Seismica]

I'm going to bet on Red Bull dominance again. I think Alonso won't be too far behind, but Mclaren won't be anywhere, trailing behind Massa probably.

I expect another good showing from Kobayashi. The Sauber seems to share the same strengths as the Red Bull (Just not quite as well), i.e. fast sweeping corners. I think he'll be clipping Mercedes' heels once again.

 

[Moot]

Hope it's not boring.
Just been watching a bit of last years as BBC were showing it. The only place I saw an overtake was on the straight by a car with good super soft tyres on. Will this year be the same just a few more than normal on the straight helped by DRS?

 

[PeterJB]

After their performance last year, a Red Bull victory wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If either of them make it out of turn 1 in the lead, they've got it.

 

[YellowG1]

After their performance last year, a Red Bull victory wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If either of them make it out of turn 1 in the lead, they've got it.

That's why we have to hope Alonso (and Hamilton too) will maintain and improve their qualifying pace. They both have looked excellent in the past two races. 👍

 

[Hun200kmh]

After their performance last year, a Red Bull victory wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. If either of them make it out of turn 1 in the lead, they've got it.

I'll reserve judgement until we know the DRS zone(s). Even assuming a RBR front row lock, if Alonso and/or Hamilton are in the second row anything can happen.

 

[Peter.]

I'll reserve judgement until we know the DRS zone(s). Even assuming a RBR front row lock, if Alonso and/or Hamilton are in the second row anything can happen.

DRS zone is down the main straight.

Considering that Red Bull were about 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone except Ferrari last year. That gap may or may not have decreased, but uts safe to say that they will be a fair way ahead. Unless a Ferrari or McLaren manage to get ahead at the start, bad strategy, or anything else, it'll be a Red Bull victory, bu i'd want Webber to win this race more than anyone else, he's the only person in a front running car that hasn't yet won a title who can right now. He needs to close the gap to Vettel and give us our first Aussie champ since Alan Jones.

 

[F1 fan]

i'd want Webber to win this race more than anyone else, he's the only person in a front running car that hasn't yet won a title who can right now.

You're forgetting Massa... Unless you count those 30 odd seconds at Interlagos.

Edit: Re-read the "just now" part. Nevermind.

 

[gogatrs]

He evidently felt the risk was not worth it, and decided to settle for third rather than risk a collision for the sake of three points.

It wasn't going to be for the sake of the three points.
I he were to make that pass, it would be to make a point, not gain three.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Which would have been somewhat influenced by "maintain the gap".

Sorry, but I'm still not buying it. Your entire argument is based on Webber not passing Vettel because he was told not to. He's already said that he ignored the order. What more do you need? You seem to be intent on explaining away Webber's decision not to pass Vettel as being a direct result of him half-following an order. But how many times have wee seen drivers settle for a position in the dying laps, knowing that the points they will get are worth more than attempting a risky move to secure more?

Once again, you constantly and consistently demonstrate that you have no idea what you are talking about. It's getting to the point where you're just making up these fantasies about Webber hesitating because an order that he completely ignored.

I he were to make that pass, it would be to make a point, not gain three.

What, that he won't obey team orders? Webber's made that pretty clear for over a year now.

 

[C-ZETA]

Has anyone noticed that out of the 24 grands prix that Hungary has held, only about 5 (maybe 6) of them have ever actually been any good?

1990 - very close finish between Boutsen and Senna
1992 - Mansell wins his first title
1997 - Hill almost wins. In an Arrows
1998 possibly - epic strategy from Ferrari
2006 - Button's first win from 14th
2008 - Epic final moments, Massa's engine blowing up and all that

...Yeah, those are the only ones I can think of.