Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

[Demetrius 81]

I disagree, in terms of content and features yes, FM4 is superior to FM5 but on track, for me FM5 is better in almost every way. I say almost because apart from the rumble in the triggers on the XB1 I prefer the controller of the 360 for FM even though 95% of the time I would use my wheel.
I have no issue with the steering response and certainly no issues with input lag in FM5, the only reason I have to go back to 4 is that I get to use my wheel, but all that does is remind me how much better on track FM5 is compared to FM4 despite having to use a controller.

@Speedster911 : You crack me up fella, although I do agree with you about T10 track design but my gripe is mainly with their original tracks which while often pretty to look at are just as often boring to drive around with maybe one exception, Sunset Peninsula.

 

[Speedster911]

I disagree, in terms of content and features yes, FM4 is superior to FM5 but on track, for me FM5 is better in almost every way. I say almost because apart from the rumble in the triggers on the XB1 I prefer the controller of the 360 for FM even though 95% of the time I would use my wheel.
I have no issue with the steering response and certainly no issues with input lag in FM5, the only reason I have to go back to 4 is that I get to use my wheel, but all that does is remind me how much better on track FM5 is compared to FM4 despite having to use a controller.

@Speedster911 : You crack me up fella, although I do agree with you about T10 track design but my gripe is mainly with their original tracks which while often pretty to look at are just as often boring to drive around with maybe one exception, Sunset Peninsula.

👍

I for one, would love to see a test track-like version of Sunset Peninsula... something along the lines of those vicious test tracks from FM2. Wouldn't that be a treat?

I really think they need to bring back a lot of the fantasy tracks from previous games. And I don't CARE about laser scanning. As long as you can feel the bumps, elevation and camber, I'm good.

As for the X1's controller, many folks say they prefer the robust design of the X360's controller.. I wouldn't know how the X1's is, though the 360's has nice ROM in the sticks and triggers.

P.S: Off topic - every time I ease off Forza, my right elbow tendonitis starts to go away!

 

[UKMikey]

Hmm, interesting.

You're actually the first person who's said that since FM5 came out.

The rest of us adjusted our centre deadzones perhaps? After experiencing rumble triggers it's difficult for me to go back to Xbox 360's stiff and relatively unresponsive controller.

 

[Speedster911]

@UKMikey
Stiff and unresponsive eh? Stiff.. how so? The analog sticks and trigger have a better ROM according to many X1 users.

Unresponsive... as in, no rumble in the triggers? The vibration does it for me nicely. Just make sure your X360 controller is fully charged.

I've used an Elite controller, as well as a Premium and Arcade version one. They've all felt pretty solid to me, with strong enough vibration. Maybe the X1 has taken that to a new level and anything less doesn't suffice.

 

[UKMikey]

@Speedster911

Let us know when you try an Xbone controller and see what you think. The triggers and sticks feel less stiff than the 360 pad to me and it's nice to have separate feedback for gas and brake to let you know whether you're gripping the road or not.

 

[Speedster911]

@UKMikey Hey the rumble feature is great I'm sure, but I would much rather have that rumble and feedback in the analog stick to tell me what the steering and wheels are doing, as opposed to just the brake and throttle.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I disagree, in terms of content and features yes, FM4 is superior to FM5 but on track, for me FM5 is better in almost every way. I say almost because apart from the rumble in the triggers on the XB1 I prefer the controller of the 360 for FM even though 95% of the time I would use my wheel.
I have no issue with the steering response and certainly no issues with input lag in FM5, the only reason I have to go back to 4 is that I get to use my wheel, but all that does is remind me how much better on track FM5 is compared to FM4 despite having to use a controller.

What about "on track" for you is noticeably better in FM5?
The only thing that I've noticed in 5 is there seems to be less, what I call cornering bog, which has been in all the previous Forzas. It seems they use it to manipulate the performance mapping of the cars and keep them within a certain bracket.

@Speedster911 : You crack me up fella, although I do agree with you about T10 track design but my gripe is mainly with their original tracks which while often pretty to look at are just as often boring to drive around with maybe one exception, Sunset Peninsula.

Even though its been around I think since the first Forza, I really like Maple Valley and miss not having it in FM5.
I like Sunset Peninsula too.
Another feature minus from 4 to 5.
FM5 has a lot less tracks.

The rest of us adjusted our centre deadzones perhaps?

Yes perhaps, but it has absolutely no effect on the steering input speed.
I wish it did.

 

[Speedster911]

@UKMikey Yes, that we can safely agree on. While it has no effect at all on steering speed, it does give you more range and therefore more degrees of steering. So less input = better response.

@SuperCobraJet Ditto! MVS is a Forza classic and should be in all Forza games by default.. even Horizon! Brilliant track layout, and I just love the lively autumn setting.
You talk about the cornering bog by the way, I think that's only present on controllers, thanks to stupid speed sensitive steering. Not only are there limitations on how much you can steer at any given speed, you also can't change the speed at which you steer! It's high time T10 threw in an option to toggle all that stuff. Why it's missing from T10 and Codies games is just beyond me.

 

[ImaRobot]

@UKMikey Hey the rumble feature is great I'm sure, but I would much rather have that rumble and feedback in the analog stick to tell me what the steering and wheels are doing, as opposed to just the brake and throttle.

That wouldnt do anything to make the game better, but more rather sounds like it would be annoying. There is feedback with steering and the wheels already, and I think its fine how it is.

Yes perhaps, but it has absolutely no effect on the steering input speed.
I wish it did.

If you make the deadzones very small from lock to lock, then that sounds like it would most likely effect steering input speed. I've never tried that, and imagine it would be very hard to drive like that

 

[Wolfe]

The only thing that I've noticed in 5 is there seems to be less, what I call cornering bog, which has been in all the previous Forzas. It seems they use it to manipulate the performance mapping of the cars and keep them within a certain bracket.

I'm curious what you mean by this? I really don't know what "cornering bog" could be.

 

[BoneSawTX]

Corner bog sounds like traction control to me, but I don't think thats it. With the aids off you can fly through turns as fast as your skill level allows. With the new X1 control I find it even easier to tell what the car is doing.

Most the people I hear saying 4 is better than 5, also say 3 is better than 4. I find these people to be button mashers, with no finesse to control the car. In 3 and 4 the cars feel like they are unrealistically glued to the track.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm curious what you mean by this? I really don't know what "cornering bog" could be.

The car seems to bog down at times under hard cornering, particularly when you get back to the throttle. It was more prevalent in FM3 than FM4.
And it was more noticeable on certain cars, than others.

Corner bog sounds like traction control to me, but I don't think thats it. With the aids off you can fly through turns as fast as your skill level allows. With the new X1 control I find it even easier to tell what the car is doing.

Most the people I hear saying 4 is better than 5, also say 3 is better than 4. I find these people to be button mashers, with no finesse to control the car. In 3 and 4 the cars feel like they are unrealistically glued to the track.

I rarely if ever use TC, and the bog issue is present without it.
If your looking for finesse, I don't see how you could find it in FM5.
My biggest complaint as spelled out in earlier posts, is the steering input speed is so slow.
In my comparison, the steering input speed is twice as fast in FM4 than FM5.
This is a realistic issue for me.
Otherwise its a structure/content/feature thing mainly.
The grip levels in FM5 appear to be some less than 4. But I don't see that as problem.
I don't think the grip was extreme enough in FM4 to be unrealistic.
FM4 did have a high threshhold of partial slip which isn't necessarily unrealistic
depending on the tire and other variables.
There is always some partial slip unless you completely overdrive a car.

 

[Speedster911]

Corner bog sounds like traction control to me, but I don't think thats it. With the aids off you can fly through turns as fast as your skill level allows. With the new X1 control I find it even easier to tell what the car is doing.

Most the people I hear saying 4 is better than 5, also say 3 is better than 4. I find these people to be button mashers, with no finesse to control the car. In 3 and 4 the cars feel like they are unrealistically glued to the track.

3 is most certainly not better than 4. The physics in 4 were vastly improved over 3. For another thing, the cars most definitely do not feel like they're glued to the track. Mess up corner entry and your car understeers. Get funny ideas with the throttle mid-corner or on exit, it oversteers. Varies between different drivetrains and driving styles. I use no assists, SIM steering, inside deads zero, outside max, on a controller. You can't just mash or flick the sticks and triggers, inputs have to be controlled and intricate. In FM3, the cars definitely felt like they were glued and somewhat defying the laws of inertia and g-forces.

I imagine the physics improvements in FM5 are even more noticeably refined than what we saw between 3 and 4.

The car seems to bog down at times under hard cornering, particularly when you get back to the throttle. It was more prevalent in FM3 than FM4.
And it was more noticeable on certain cars, than others.



I rarely if ever use TC, and the bog issue is present without it.
If your looking for finesse, I don't see how you could find it in FM5.
My biggest complaint as spelled out in earlier posts, is the steering input speed is so slow.
In my comparison, the steering input speed is twice as fast in FM4 than FM5.
This is a realistic issue for me.
Otherwise its a structure/content/feature thing mainly.
The grip levels in FM5 appear to be some less than 4. But I don't see that as problem.
I don't think the grip was extreme enough in FM4 to be unrealistic.
FM4 did have a high threshhold of partial slip which isn't necessarily unrealistic
depending on the tire and other variables.
There is always some partial slip unless you completely overdrive a car.

Mmm, good points you raise. *Yoda*

 

[Wolfe]

One funny thing I remember about FM3 is that it had more than just super-grippy tires, it also had a weird bug with drifting/oversteer on a controller. If you were a fraction of a second too late to start countersteering, you'd spin out every time. But if you flicked into countersteer immediately and then backed off, you were all set for the rest of the drift.

 

[Speedster911]

One funny thing I remember about FM3 is that it had more than just super-grippy tires, it also had a weird bug with drifting/oversteer on a controller. If you were a fraction of a second too late to start countersteering, you'd spin out every time. But if you flicked into countersteer immediately and then backed off, you were all set for the rest of the drift.

THIS is what eventually made me ditch FM3 altogeter. Started to just have too much fun maintaining drifts and correcting slides in FM4. 4's grip loss and back on grip feels quite dynamic, and FM3's as you said is just linear.. beyond a certain point.. if you don't countersteer on time, you're gone! No matter how skilled a driver you are.

 

[SimTourist]

You have to be insane to claim Forza 5 handles worse than Forza 4. Seriously out of your mind.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

You have to be insane to claim Forza 5 handles worse than Forza 4. Seriously out of your mind.

I don't think anyone's saying that? And yes it would be strange

Edit: I see. Someone did say it. Indeed peculiar.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

You have to be insane to claim Forza 5 handles worse than Forza 4. Seriously out of your mind.

Assuming this is a reply to one of my posts, it depends on exactly what you mean by "handles worse".
As far as the steering input speed, between the two games, FM5's is twice as slow as FM4.
If you don't believe it is, then check it out for yourself.
I've done so now multiple times.
Its the first thing I noticed when I started playing FM5.
That being the case, if FM5 handles better in that regaurd, then you should be able to put a worn out steering box on a car and that will make it handle better too.
Sorry but I don't consider that a reasonable expectation.
Perhaps you prefer your steering inputs delayed, but I like mine to be where I input them when I input them.
You may not believe it, but it can help a lot with the handling aspects.

 

[BoneSawTX]

I have zero input lag in fm5, you're having an issue in your end. Do you have the Xbox in a entertainment center or closet?

Have you updated the control?

 

[BoneSawTX]

delete

 

[ImaRobot]

Assuming this is a reply to one of my posts, it depends on exactly what you mean by "handles worse".
As far as the steering input speed, between the two games, FM5's is twice as slow as FM4.
If you don't believe it is, then check it out for yourself.
I've done so now multiple times.
Its the first thing I noticed when I started playing FM5.
That being the case, if FM5 handles better in that regaurd, then you should be able to put a worn out steering box on a car and that will make it handle better too.
Sorry but I don't consider that a reasonable expectation.
Perhaps you prefer your steering inputs delayed, but I like mine to be where I input them when I input them.
You may not believe it, but it can help a lot with the handling aspects.

To be honest, the steering speed seems realistically slow. At a dead stop going full lock to full lock doesnt seem to far off from doing it in a real car. If thats what T10 was aiming for, realism, then I dont see it being a problem. More so then you just wanting it to be faster for the sake of being faster.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I have zero input lag in fm5, you're having an issue in your end. Do you have the Xbox in a entertainment center or closet?

Have you updated the control?

I have it in an entertainment center, but I've moved it around, and updated the controller.
It doesn't matter. The speed is the same.

Something else I mentioned in an earlier post that indicates it is the game,
was a video on youtube by Inside Sim Racing.
The guy is using a steering wheel in FM5, and you can see the delay between
his steering inputs and the in cockpit steering wheel.
The faster he moves the wheel the more noticeable it is.
The guy driving says he doesn't notice it either.
But I don't know how. Its pretty obvious.
Apparently some people just don't see it.
You can also go to telemetry while your racing and in the upper right of the screen is a steering indicator.
The slow speed of your steering inputs are likewise very notceable there as well.
FM4 is much faster and in GT there is practically no delay.
You can still drive in FM5 but I have to adapt and compensate for it.
Since you are steering by forward observation, the more you drive the less noticeable it becomes.

 

[Ialyrn]

I have it in an entertainment center, but I've moved it around, and updated the controller.
It doesn't matter. The speed is the same.

Something else I mentioned in an earlier post that indicates it is the game,
was a video on youtube by Inside Sim Racing.
The guy is using a steering wheel in FM5, and you can see the delay between
his steering inputs and the in cockpit steering wheel.
The faster he moves the wheel the more noticeable it is.
The guy driving says he doesn't notice it either.
But I don't know how. Its pretty obvious.
Apparently some people just don't see it.
You can also go to telemetry while your racing and in the upper right of the screen is a steering indicator.
The slow speed of your steering inputs are likewise very notceable there as well.
FM4 is much faster and in GT there is practically no delay.
You can still drive in FM5 but I have to adapt and compensate for it.
Since you are steering by forward observation, the more you drive the less noticeable it becomes.

The correlation between movements made on a controller (wheel or pad), do not apply to the position of the ingame steering wheel in cockpit view, never has. It is just a visual aspect, unlike in a pc based sim that has a full wheel to wheel lock rotation on the in game steering wheel (assetto Corsa, Pcars, Iracing and on so). This has the knock on effect of making people believe there is input lag going on. Watching the ingame steering wheel as an indication of how much you are turning in Forza, will always cause issues. Things that can affect things though, is the TV itself (hence why a lot of people will use a gaming monitor, even for the consoles), or something in your general area interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless signal that the console and controllers use to communicate to one another. These things can include baby monitors, wireless routers, cordless landline phones, and anything else that works via a wireless system. Even things that are not wireless based can interfere with the 2.4GHz band. So if you haven't already done so, plug in a micro USB cable and see if that helps.

I have played FM5 with a Thrustmaster TX and the default controller, and I can honestly say there is no input lag that I have noticed. If there was, then I doubt I would have been able to drive like this on the green hell in a drift tuned car with 900° of steering rotation and manual w/clutch gearing.



Or drive this smoothly while on a wheel or a pad

Wheel:


X1 controller:


Either there is something wrong with your setup, or you have bad driving practices within Forza.

 

[Speedster911]

@SuperCobraJet I'd recommend you give some more play time to FM5 and get used to how the controller steering works in the game. Checking videos online for lag isn't going to help... since it's recorded, it will always display a lag. It isn't in-game lag or wheel lag.

Set your deads to zero inside, max outside.. and practice good race craft: slow in, fast out.. pick your racing lines.. learn to time your engine braking and downshifts... I'm sure you're doing all of this though. You seem like a Forza vet.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Since so many of you seem adamant about the absence of the steering delay I have been experiencing,
I decided to do another test.
Ialyrn mentioned something that I had not tried. Playing the controller with the USB cable connected.
I tried it today with the cable connected and I didn't have it. The inputs were comparable to FM4.
So then I tried without the cable and the input timing was still good.
The same as with it.

This does indicate I'm having a problem at times with something affecting it.
My first area of concern is if it could be bandwith related.
Since you have to be online to play FM5, there are at times two to three other PCs online when I'm playing.
I've been the only one on today and I have checked it several times, it has been good everytime.
I'll have to do some more experimenting to see if I can determine what the cause might be.

At any rate I'm glad its not set that way by the game.

 

[Ialyrn]

Connection to the internet only comes into play when actually playing in a multiplayer environment, for example racing other people in an online hopper. The drivertars information is downloaded before a single player race takes place, but you dont have to be connected to the internet to play Forza. I have played fully offline a couple of times when my net has gone down occasionally, and it has never posed an issue for me.

The problem you will find is something interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless band that the controller uses to communicate with the console. This is the exact same band a network router will use, even the newer dual band routers still use 2.4GHz. The 2.4GHz band is so over populated.

 

[Speedster911]

Well, it's settled then!

@SuperCobraJet You didn't mention you were experiencing this online only.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Connection to the internet only comes into play when actually playing in a multiplayer environment, for example racing other people in an online hopper. The drivertars information is downloaded before a single player race takes place, but you dont have to be connected to the internet to play Forza. I have played fully offline a couple of times when my net has gone down occasionally, and it has never posed an issue for me.

There is no true offline play in FM5 that I'm aware of.
To my knowledge you cannot play FM5 without signing in with an online profile and you have to be connected.
Whether in multiplayer or not.
Considering that, and as you mention, the drivatars are downloaded in career mode, how can you play without an internet connection?

The problem you will find is something interfering with the 2.4GHz wireless band that the controller uses to communicate with the console. This is the exact same band a network router will use, even the newer dual band routers still use 2.4GHz. The 2.4GHz band is so over populated.

I have a FIOS wireless router for all my internet connections.
As you say, it could be a problem at times with that affecting it.
Particularly when there is heavy internet traffic on the other connected PCs.
Possibly another factor is the XBone I am playing is physically between the router and the other PCs.

 

[Ialyrn]

There is no true offline play in FM5 that I'm aware of.
To my knowledge you cannot play FM5 without signing in with an online profile and you have to be connected.
Whether in multiplayer or not.
Considering that, and as you mention, the drivatars are downloaded in career mode, how can you play without an internet connection?



I have a FIOS wireless router for all my internet connections.
As you say, it could be a problem at times with that affecting it.
Particularly when there is heavy internet traffic on the other connected PCs.
Possibly another factor is the XBone I am playing is physically between the router and the other PCs.

Ok, so I pulled the Ethernet cable out the back of my Xbox one. Then I proceeded to load up Forza 5. Since I have the Blu-ray version of FM5, I also loaded up my digital version of FH2. As you will see, both loaded up perfectly fine with no internet connection. There was no cutting involved in the video, it is one whole recording from start to finish.

 

[SimTourist]

Xbone requiring an permanent internet is like an urban myth now. No, it doesn't, it works exactly like every other console out there. And Forza is no exception.