Forza 5 Is A Major Dissapointment, Will DLC Save It?

[Imari]

I enjoyed Forza 4 way more than GT5 for reasons I will not get into. I have not played forza 4 for a while though and I am really discouraged from playing it, I am banned on xbox live, I finished the career mode in Forza 4, I didn't wanna do all of the Event list, playing online is so much more fun then that.

So this has lead me to find a new car game. I was hoping Forza 5 could replace my urge to play Forza 4 again but it can't. The only thing different about Forza 5 is it has better graphics and better car AI because of drivatars, of course it has some new cars and tracks but that is expected anyway. Forza 4 had more tracks and 400 cars at launch. WTF is wrong with turn 10? Why waste so many resources to make 200 cars fully compatible with Auto Vistas? People don't spend much time in that, that is just some leisurely activity, something that is non-essential to the game itself. They could have added another 200 cars. Also, the DLC policies are PATHETIC, only 200 cars and you still must pay for some.

What they should have done was include every car in the game from Forza 4 including the Unicorn cars but making them accessible cars, they could have converted them to their new game engine. Then they should have added 200 brand new cars in addition to that.

But no, turn 10 only releases 200 cars with some stuck behind paid DLC and a 60$ DLC pack for access to future DLC. What the hell are they thinking? There is not even a course editor, night racing or weather.

If DLC packs don't add at least 300 cars then I am not buying this game, total lack of content with the fools focusing on auto vistas.

I can only hope GT6 improves upon the major faults that made me hate to the GT series, all they must improve on is sound and the addition of custom paint designs and I will never touch a Forza game again.

If you're disappointed with FM5 in it's current state, I wouldn't expect DLC to change much. It'll add a bit more content, and maybe change up some stuff, but it's still going to be basically what it is.

It's a natural byproduct of the circumstances. It's not a surprise, and T10 were pretty upfront pretty early about how little content it was going to have compared to FM4. And why.

You won't get serious change until FM6, and even then I wouldn't expect the same amount of content that FM4 had at it's peak. If we're really lucky, we might get back to those levels in FM7, and possibly the next generation of consoles/games won't need to be remodelled so we might not see this kind of drop again.

 

[UKMikey]

Whew... when I saw the thread title I thought he was espousing some kind of majority opinion. I'm gonna compare FM5 to the kind of launch games that were around for 360 and PS3 and I'm glad the jury is still out.

 

[somebodysb2]

All of the DLC added to Forza 5 would double the cost but won't make double the game.

 

[Exorcet]

I'd say Autovista has proved itself, imo. If T10 hadn't been so centered around creating more vehicles to showcase for it, I think we'd be stuck with some of the same FM2/FM3 models to date. That's a big plus in my book. Fans have been asking for updated models for years now, so it's good to see T10 delivered on 1 front.

Personally, the old models didn't really bother me, but I know it was an issue for a lot of people. Still, AV is a little overkill. They could have updated the cars with far less complex models.

 

[McLaren]

I think people would have still complained either way, IMO.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

I think people would have still complained either way, IMO.

And the other side of that is others were going to just love it no matter what and still others that will just complain because others have complaints.

DLC may "fix" one of the major complaints about FM5 which is lack of content as it pertains to cars. Of course, it only "fixes" it if you don't mind paying for content that has pretty clearly been held back at release just to get you to fork out more $$$. It's not going to fix the glaring features that are MIA like rollups, car clubs and gifting among others. It's not going to fix the broken multiplayer that leaves the league racing community out in the cold. It's not going to fix the extreme microtransaction scheme Turn 10 has borrowed from EA.

 

[eran0004]

content that has pretty clearly been held back at release

What content has pretty clearly been held back?

 

[greekbull]

I just don't understand some of these posts...why would you rather delay the game for a year for more content over getting what is still an amazing product and getting dlc throughout?!! This game is phenomenal and a huge leap forward from any previous FM or GT game. And I'm very happy to have this at launch as opposed to the poor PS4 guys which won't get a true racing game for at least a year!

 

[BoneSawTX]

Have not played no. Never will, since I am a PS guy.

so what you just said is your thoughts/opinions on the game are a waste of space. thanks.

 

[Brend]

I don't agree with the tokens, and the new payout method. If it doesn't matter where you place, it just allows Microsoft to control the in-game economy more. As soon as you are a 'Hard' or equivalent level driver, that's it. You don't get any more credits for doing better than the AI. The rewards have been frozen and unfortunately that means there are no more ways of increasing your payout - I really like PD's PP Differential idea, could be useful in a lot of racing games.

The tokens part? eh. I just think that £60 is excessive for an ingame car, even if you can still earn 6 Million credits instead, the option just seems a bit much. Buy F1 2013 for £25.

 

[Wolfe]

I just don't understand some of these posts...why would you rather delay the game for a year for more content over getting what is still an amazing product and getting dlc throughout?!!

The idea is that a delayed game would offer more for your $60 purchase, rather than paying $60 and then some.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

*edit* I will leave this here just in case someone has not ran across the discussions yet. Something to kill time with and maybe open up some eyes. Defenders of T10 and MS should stay away.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721448

http://www.teamvvv.com/en/news/comments/Forza-5s-monetisation-is-a-monumental-rip-off

And there goes any desire I had of ever owning FM5. Or even an Xbox One for that matter.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Wait, Affinity is gone?

Pfffffft 👎

 

[Joey D]

Wait, Affinity is gone?

Pfffffft 👎

Nope, affinity is still there.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Nope, affinity is still there.

Oh yes, it is indeed there. However, I've heard that you can't gain free parts from them anymore. :\

 

[eran0004]

And there goes any desire I had of ever owning FM5. Or even an Xbox One for that matter.

So the car is expensive.
Don't buy it for real money then, use the in-game credits.
The point is obviously not to earn an awful lot of money, because not a lot of people would spend that kind of money to buy a car, and reducing the price would arguably lead to more purchases and higher profit.
The point is to make the car hard to obtain.

 

[Wolfe]

From @MuoNiuLa's links:

Case in point: the Lotus E21 formula one car, one of Forza 5’s new star attractions keenly publicised by Microsoft as this is the first game in the series to feature open wheel racecars. What they failed to mention was the astronomical price of admission. In-game, it costs a whopping 6 million credits. Alternatively, at the time of writing you can buy it for 10,000 tokens – in real world cash, this equates to over £60.00. £60.00 for one digital racecar? No. Just no.

The average player, then, won’t ever be able to experience the pleasure of driving this car unless they’re prepared to grind through 60 hours-worth of laborious racing. And that’s before you take into account sifting through menus, tuning the car and practicing to stay competitive. In practice, you could be spending over 100 hours just to drive one car. Yes, there still needs to be a sense of progression and car rarity, but this is unfeasible.

While I don't like the idea of Tokens and I really dislike the way Microsoft/T10 are pushing them (and have priced them), maybe the game's rarest and most desirable cars should take this sort of commitment to own? These games are released every two years, and it barely took me a few months to have basically everything I wanted in FM4 and Horizon. I don't recall my game time in Horizon but it was approaching 200 hours last time I checked, and that's over the first year. I'd earned millions upon millions of credits anyway -- way more than the six million required for the Lotus, if FM5's payouts aren't too skimpy by comparison.

The decision to cut cars from Free Play is inexcusable; everything should be accessible in that mode, because its limitations are a fair compromise. But as I've pointed out a couple times in the past week or two, I don't really understand the urge for players to have everything they could want as soon as possible, like in the first two months of playing. If FM5 pays anything like FM4 and Horizon did, how is six million credits such an astronomical barrier? If you don't have the time or skill to pull it off, well, I guess that's what the Tokens are for. Not that I would argue Tokens are the ideal alternative...

 

[C_Raccoon23]

So the car is expensive.
Don't buy it for real money then, use the in-game credits.
The point is obviously not to earn an awful lot of money, because not a lot of people would spend that kind of money to buy a car, and reducing the price would arguably lead to more purchases and higher profit.
The point is to make the car hard to obtain.

That's not the reason why I have an issue with this. They purposely screwed up FM5's game design so they can pressure people into buying tokens for cars.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

The point is to make the car hard to obtain.

I don't mean to be rude, or whatever. Really I don't. But come on man. Do you actually for one second believe this microtransactions stuff is about ANYTHING but squeezing every single possible penny out of the consumer? They price them that way because they KNOW there are suckers out there who will spend more money. Evidently enough that screwing over a larger base of 60 dollar paying customers is profitable. Who cares about the millions who bought the game with a reasonable expectation of driving all the cars.

Just pure arrogance on Turn 10's part. They believe they can just do whatever and the army of lemmings will just follow them right off the cliff. Just hoping and praying that Project Cars is everything it's billed to be. Only then when there's real competition in the market might we see some of the real change that is needed at the top of Turn 10 to return Forza to what it once was.

 

[Brend]

So the car is expensive.
Don't buy it for real money then, use the in-game credits.
The point is obviously not to earn an awful lot of money, because not a lot of people would spend that kind of money to buy a car, and reducing the price would arguably lead to more purchases and higher profit.
The point is to make the car hard to obtain.

Why not make the car not buyable then?

That's just an excuse well conducted that makes sense to most people if they don't think about what they are actually saying:

"We don't want a car's value being de-valued by those who choose to 'buy' the car...so instead of making it unbuyable we made it really expensive so the we get money from the fools who buy it"

 

[eran0004]

I don't mean to be rude, or whatever. Really I don't. But come on man. Do you actually for one second believe this microtransactions stuff is about ANYTHING but squeezing every single possible penny out of the consumer? They price them that way because they KNOW there are suckers out there who will spend more money. Evidently enough that screwing over a larger base of 60 dollar paying customers is profitable. Who cares about the millions who bought the game with a reasonable expectation of driving all the cars.

Just pure arrogance on Turn 10's part. They believe they can just do whatever and the army of lemmings will just follow them right off the cliff. Just hoping and praying that Project Cars is everything it's billed to be. Only then when there's real competition in the market might we see some of the real change that is needed at the top of Turn 10 to return Forza to what it once was.

If the reason was squeezing money out of the customers, it would be cheaper, because they would sell more that way. That's the ultimate flaw in the reasoning behind these theories about the greedy T10, that if it was actually all about money, it would be priced differently. Just look at it, how many have you seen saying that they'd consider buying the cars with real money? I haven't seen anyone so far.

If they cut the prices in half and tripled the sales it would be 50% more profit. Why don't they do that?
Well, maybe they want players to obtain cars through playing the game instead.

Now, why are the in game rewards so low? The most plausible explanation as I see it is because there's not a lot of cars on the list and it may be an attempt to make the game last longer. Is it bad design? Maybe. Is the reason greed? I find that hard to believe.

That's not the reason why I have an issue with this. They purposely screwed up FM5's game design so they can pressure people into buying tokens for cars.

They screwed up the game design? Possibly.
They did it so they can pressure people into buying tokens? There's a lot of thin ice under that statement.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

They screwed up the game design? Possibly.
They did it so they can pressure people unto buying tokens? There's a lot of thin ice under that statement.

What logical reason is there to not make every car accessible in free mode, remove gifting, remove the auction house & storefront and remove prize cars?

 

[eran0004]

What logical reason is there to not make every car accessible in free mode, remove gifting, remove the auction house & storefront and remove prize cars?

Whatever it is I'm sure it can't make any less sense than trying to earn more by selling less.
One possible reason is that they might want the more exclusive cars to feel expensive. The price adds to the feeling of driving them.

 

[Brend]

Whatever it is I'm sure it can't make any less sense than trying to earn more by selling less.
One possible reason is that they might want the more exclusive cars to feel expensive. The price adds to the feeling of driving them.

Willing to place a wager that once MS realize that they can't con people to a certain extent they will lower the prices of the tokens then?

 

[eran0004]

Willing to place a wager that once MS realize that they can't con people to a certain extent they will lower the prices of the tokens then?

If no one buys any tokens they will probably be adjusted. The system is there to be used, so I bet the prices will be adjusted accordingly. What I'm willing to do is to place a wager that the tokens will never be so cheap that it renders the credits earned in game pointless.

 

[Brend]

If no one buys any tokens they will probably be adjusted. The system is there to be used, so I bet the prices will be adjusted accordingly. What I'm willing to do is to place a wager that the tokens will never be so cheap that it renders the credits earned in game pointless.

It really comes down to what you subjectively declare 'pointless'? The comparisons to mobile games dont add up because if MS/T10 have made this microtransaction model they will be considering how much asset is worth and then work from there so realistically they couldn't make the tokens ridiculously cheap. The model is there for a reason.

 

[Tornado]

I'm impressed. You spend the last week arguing so strongly that GT6 having microtransactions is something that effects no one but the people who buy them because there is no reason to suspect that anything will be done to "encourage" them over just playing the game; and when faced with a game where it's pretty straightforward what was done to encourage microtransactions (by stripping most of the alternative sources of income from previous games while dramatically raising the "cost" of tokens) you just reuse the same argument. That takes a level of commitment that I haven't seen since the days of Dapper.

If they cut the prices in half and tripled the sales it would be 50% more profit. Why don't they do that?

He says for the same game where they've nearly doubled the cost of the DLC over the previous game.

 

[eran0004]

I'm impressed.

Thanks.

It really comes down to what you subjectively declare 'pointless'? The comparisons to mobile games dont add up because if MS/T10 have made this microtransaction model they will be considering how much asset is worth and then work from there so realistically they couldn't make the tokens ridiculously cheap. The model is there for a reason.

Pointless as in it's not worth it to play the game to get credits, because it's a lot easier to simply buy tokens instead.
As the price of tokens go up, the incentive to buy them goes down. Raising the price of tokens seems more like a balancing issue than a greed issue.

 

[20B_4ME]

The lack of cars and tracks does bother me, but it can be overlooked due to the AI being a lot more fun and realistic and the graphics being a lot better. The only reason I have for not getting Forza 5 and for having an opinion of it being a much worse game than GT6 is the following fact:

- To play GT6: I already have a PS3 and racing rig with a Fanatec GT3 RS V2 wheel and Clubsport pedals, all I have to do is buy the GT6 game.

- To play Forza 5: I have to buy a Xbone, a Thrustmaster Ferrari wheel and pedals that are inferior to my current Fanatec wheel, Forza 5 game and still buy 12 month Xbox Live on top of that!

Hummm let me think: option one will cost me in Australian Dollars about $120 (for GT6 Anniversary edition) and option two will cost me $599 (for Xbone), $89.95 for Forza 5, $89 for Xbox live 12 month membership and about $450 for the Thrustmaster Ferrari wheel! That's a massive total of around $1227.95!!!!

 

[eSZee]

If the reason was squeezing money out of the customers, it would be cheaper, because they would sell more that way. That's the ultimate flaw in the reasoning behind these theories about the greedy T10, that if it was actually all about money, it would be priced differently. Just look at it, how many have you seen saying that they'd consider buying the cars with real money? I haven't seen anyone so far.

If they cut the prices in half and tripled the sales it would be 50% more profit. Why don't they do that?

That's not how it works.
The ultimate flaw in your reasoning is that you don't really know what you're talking about. Halving the price doesn't assure maximum profits.
The reason they can charge what they are charging is because they have data showing this many people are willing to spend this much money delivering this much profit.