Forza 5's woeful lighting and how it backfired

[Speedster911]

No. I don't sit on the hood or, strap myself to the bumper or, climb onto the wing or, hover 8'-0" above the ground and 6'-0" behind the vehicle when I am driving my real car. I also don't like using those views in a driving sim, no matter how arcade like it is. I feel better connection to the ingame car, when I am using the cockpit view.

Changing the views does work for eliminating the glare issue in FM4, but the awe inspiring lighting on FM5 does not go away, or bother me to a lesser degree. Yet in both games, the hood and magic carpet views completely disconnect me from the car.

I never liked following view cameras. Even in games dating back to Out Run, as fun as it was. So I don't use them, if they are optional.

Real cars also have their wheels turning well over 180 degree on either side, don't they?

It's a game, enjoy it to the max! Then again, we have our own preferences.

 

[Dopplegagger]

It's a game, enjoy it to the max!

And you as well.

 

[UKMikey]

I can't handle chase car views as when the car turns my viewpoint stays the same. Bonnet (hood) view is fine for me as my viewpoint turns with the car. Personally I find it a lot less restrictive peripherally than cockpit view but everyone is different.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

I dont ask for wet or night racing because this is obviously beyond Turn 10's understanding much like PD's sound and damage model and Evolution's drive model but I hope Turn 10 either fix this in Forza 6 or dont do it at all.

If Turn 10 had the development time and performance needed to have dynamic day/night cycle than it would have it.

But hey, what the hell do I know. I've only been following Turn 10 and Forza since a year before the first Forza Motorsport and following game development for nearly two decades.

*Looks at FM6 and the lack of dynamic lighting*

 

[ChromeBallz]

I'm looking forward to the digital foundry analysis.... If it turns out that FM6 is rocking a solid 60fps i think they're just looking for the limits game by game.

That said, GT5/6 managed to do it, albeit in a very hacky way (mostly ambient lighting changes as far as i can tell).

 

[SimTourist]

No one has managed to have dynamic lighting and locked 1080p 60 fps yet, not even on PS4, PD might do it but we'll have to see.

 

[FordGTGuy]

*Looks at FM6 and the lack of dynamic lighting*

FM6 has a dev time of around 1.8 years, my comment holds true.

 

[Tornado]

Baby steps are better than no steps. Dynamic lighting is basically what destroyed GT5's performance over Prologue

 

[SlipZtrEm]

rocking a solid 60fps

That said, GT5/6 managed to do it

There's a particular octopus-running-across-ocean-floor gif that seems appropriate here.

 

[TokoTurismo]

There's a particular octopus-running-across-ocean-floor gif that seems appropriate here.

I just had to.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

FM6 has a dev time of around 1.8 years, my comment holds true.

Curious. If and when FM7 fails to deliver dynamic lighting, what is your explanation going to be?

 

[ImaRobot]

Curious. If and when FM7 fails to deliver dynamic lighting, what is your explanation going to be?

I would probably move on with my life and continue having fun with a game that is undoubtedly fun in the first place. If they can do it, great. If they cant, I guess that's that.

It's not much of a dig against the game if it doesn't implement it for whatever reason(most likely being that they can't get it functioning at 60fps.) while its competitors have it in and can't get it optimized correctly.

 

[Ialyrn]

Curious. If and when FM7 fails to deliver dynamic lighting, what is your explanation going to be?

Does it really matter if Forza has dynamic time of day and weather?

 

[TokoTurismo]

I can't really understand why a racing game HAS to have dynamic day/night and weather for some people, what's the big deal? Those people will still complain anyways so they should drop it already. So what if other (60fps only) racing games have it, they struggle to get it running at a stable 60fps for such a feature (and I am not saying this to defend T10 either, as I would say the same about them if they did it too). I say what T10 has right now is fine since they perfer to keep their games running at a stable 60fps without sacrificing frames, so I believe they should be forgiven and respected for it.

In my honest opinion, dynamic day/night and weather is nothing really special and I'm glad T10 won't need to waste their time with it if it needs to keep a stable 60fps in each Forza Motorsport title. What matters most, is that at least they (T10) listened to their fanbase and did day/night and weather as it was a long requested feature, so props to them for listening. 👍

I don't see a certain developer listening, nothing but cricket noises.

 

[ImaRobot]

I can't really understand why a racing game HAS to have dynamic day/night and weather for some people, what's the big deal? Those people will still complain anyways so they should drop it already. So what if other (60fps only) racing games have it, they struggle to get it running at a stable 60fps for such a feature (and I am not saying this to defend T10 either, as I would say the same about them if they did it too). I say what T10 has right now is fine since they perfer to keep their games running at a stable 60fps without sacrificing frames, so I believe they should be forgiven and respected for it.

In my honest opinion, dynamic day/night and weather is nothing really special and I'm glad T10 won't need to waste their time with it if it needs to keep a stable 60fps in each Forza Motorsport title. What matters most, is that at least they (T10) listened to their fanbase and did day/night and weather as it was a long requested feature, so props to them for listening. 👍

I don't see a certain developer listening, nothing but cricket noises.

It doesn't necessarily have to have it, but it would be a great feature to have. Not only for racing purposes, but also with photomode purposes. It's not the end of the world for me, but it is definitely something that would be used greatly.

 

[azrael1965]

In my honest opinion, dynamic day/night and weather is nothing really special and I'm glad T10 won't need to waste their time with it if it needs to keep a stable 60fps in each Forza Motorsport title.

Dynamic Day/Night and weather is certainly not a waste of time. It makes races special and fun especially endurance races. (I really enjoy them in Project Cars. It's great to start racing in the evening and it gets darker with each round or it suddenly starts to rain and you have to decide if it would be wise to pit to switch to rain tyres.) But I respect Turn 10s decision not to sacrifice the 60 fps for it.

 

[Tornado]

I'd say treating dynamic time and dynamic weather as having the same importance is a bit fallacious.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

I would probably move on with my life and continue having fun with a game that is undoubtedly fun in the first place.

For sure. I never said I wasn't going to have fun with FM6, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with it does it?

Does it really matter if Forza has dynamic time of day and weather?

To me, it's one of the most important features in a racing game, hands down. I absolutely love how I can change the time on tracks in GT6 and PC to suit the mood I am in. In fact, I place dynamic time and weather ahead of a livery editor as I never have used them in FM1-5.

I can't really understand why a racing game HAS to have dynamic day/night and weather for some people, what's the big deal?

I don't see a certain developer listening, nothing but cricket noises.

You should be able to answer your own question TokoTurismo. It's obvious by your jab at a "certain" developer, you haven't had your expectations met by "certain" company and as a result, are not happy. I am willing to bet you have voiced your opinion on one or more occasion.

Dynamic Day/Night and weather is certainly not a waste of time. It makes races special and fun especially endurance races. (I really enjoy them in Project Cars. It's great to start racing in the evening and it gets darker with each round or it suddenly starts to rain and you have to decide if it would be wise to pit to switch to rain tyres.)

Indeed! I love experiencing different tracks under different conditions. No stale driving/racing here.

I'd say treating dynamic time and dynamic weather as having the same importance is a bit fallacious.

In your book, perhaps, but it's always best not to assume that others don't share the same viewpoint. They are equally important to me.

 

[ImaRobot]

For sure. I never said I wasn't going to have fun with FM6, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy with it does it?

I know you didn't, I replied because you seemed to want peoples opinions on the matter. Why exactly would it make you unhappy though?

There are games that have it that doesn't work as intended, and then there is a game that has it, but is not Dynamic. At the time I would say that there is just as much reason to be unhappy with the games that have implemented it not running as intended, not just the one that implements these features, but keeps them as static.

You should be able to answer your own question TokoTurismo. It's obvious by your jab at a "certain" developer, you haven't had your expectations met by "certain" company and as a result, are not happy. I am willing to bet you have voiced your opinion on one or more occasion

As annoying as it was at one point, he has voiced his opinion against both developers plenty.

In your book, perhaps, but it's always best not to assume that others don't share the same viewpoint. They are equally important to me.

I don't see how him saying that is any different than;

I place dynamic time and weather ahead of a livery editor as I never have used them in FM1-5.

 

[Tornado]

In your book, perhaps, but it's always best not to assume that others don't share the same viewpoint.

Indeed. It sure would have been silly to not preface my point with an excerpt saying it represented my views.

I'd say

 

[SimTourist]

Curious. If and when FM7 fails to deliver dynamic lighting, what is your explanation going to be?

Well what if GT7 delivers ToD but fails to run at locked 60 fps? Same situation.

 

[TokoTurismo]

You should be able to answer your own question TokoTurismo. It's obvious by your jab at a "certain" developer, you haven't had your expectations met by "certain" company and as a result, are not happy. I am willing to bet you have voiced your opinion on one or more occasion.

I've voiced my opinions on both developers plenty of times, especially in the past. Although this isn't the thread to voice it, so I'll end it here. 1. There were no expectations I wanted them to meet as I lost trust in them, and 2. I will say that "developer" should start interacting/listening to fans like T10 does because it feels you aren't being ignored.

I didn't want to bring it up, but just wanted to let it out because it feels so good to finally have a developer listen to you and others who are fans of the series.

Now, let's get back to discussing about day/night and weather like before.

 

[Speedster911]

Dynamic lighting you say? If DX12 can allow that at 60 fps, great! If devs have had enough time to fully exploit the X1's hardware by the time FM7 rolls out.. hey, I'm all for it.

I personally feel they work on animations first. Particularly cockpit animations, suspension movement in replays and racing.. all that stuff. The core stuff.

 

[ChromeBallz]

There's a particular octopus-running-across-ocean-floor gif that seems appropriate here.

I don't understand that reference? Did i say something strange? 0-o

 

[Ialyrn]

Dynamic lighting you say? If DX12 can allow that at 60 fps, great! If devs have had enough time to fully exploit the X1's hardware by the time FM7 rolls out.. hey, I'm all for it.

I personally feel they work on animations first. Particularly cockpit animations, suspension movement in replays and racing.. all that stuff. The core stuff.

The cockpit animations are arbitrary Speedster, and they have no real effect on the game play itself. Just how much immersion a person feels while playing Forza. Sure it would be great if T10 redid them, but it is not something they should drop everything else for. There are vastly more important aspects to the game that need attention first, like the racing (which you mentioned), and the multiplayer.

 

[Speedster911]

The cockpit animations are arbitrary Speedster, and they have no real effect on the game play itself. Just how much immersion a person feels while playing Forza. Sure it would be great if T10 redid them, but it is not something they should drop everything else for. There are vastly more important aspects to the game that need attention first, like the racing (which you mentioned), and the multiplayer.

Come ON! Tell me you want to see hand-over-hand animation... tell me you want to see gear sticks and paddles, and steering wheel angle moving like the real thing... I know you want to!

 

[ImaRobot]

Come ON! Tell me you want to see hand-over-hand animation... tell me you want to see gear sticks and paddles, and steering wheel angle moving like the real thing... I know you want to!

Yeah I would, literally after everything else though lol. I would say everything is more important at this point. If they run out of things to improve, then I'm all for that

 

[Ialyrn]

Come ON! Tell me you want to see hand-over-hand animation... tell me you want to see gear sticks and paddles, and steering wheel angle moving like the real thing... I know you want to!

I have that on PC already via Iracing, Assetto Corsa and Pcars/etc. I turn the hands and wheel off while racing, as it becomes a distraction while using the cockpit views.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah I would, literally after everything else though lol. I would say everything is more important at this point. If they run out of things to improve, then I'm all for that

This is my exact thought on the matter. Whether or not the driver's hands cross over has no bearing on how much I enjoy the game.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

Indeed. It sure would have been silly to not preface my point with an excerpt saying it represented my views.

Speaking of silly, you ever think you read the entire sentence but it turns out you didn't? My bad.

Well what if GT7 delivers ToD but fails to run at locked 60 fps? Same situation.

I for one would be happy to try it. Honestly speaking, I am perfectly content with playing a game that is not 60 FPS if I can change the time of day on any track I go to. Regardless, if I am still posting here, I will voice my displeasure.

I've voiced my opinions on both developers plenty of times, especially in the past. Although this isn't the thread to voice it, so I'll end it here. 1. There were no expectations I wanted them to meet as I lost trust in them, and 2. I will say that "developer" should start interacting/listening to fans like T10 does because it feels you aren't being ignored.

I didn't want to bring it up, but just wanted to let it out because it feels so good to finally have a developer listen to you and others who are fans of the series.

You puzzle me TokoTurismo... You state a broad sweeping question in "what's the big deal" when it comes to dynamic time and weather yet seem displeased with a racing developers lack of interaction with the fan base. Take that same mindset you have and apply it to those who want dynamic weather and time.

But yet, you did take a jab at a "certain" developer in the wrong thread (which sadly, is par for the course here at GTPlanet).