Forza 6 vs Other Games - Physics Discussion Thread

[HBR-Roadhog]

I was working a bit tonight with a car that has a pretty bad case of liftoff oversteer. I tried a few different things to try and tame it enough that it could be driven and in the end found that it behaves much better with the Decel set to 50 or higher. Normally you would lower decel to reduce the lift off oversteer and most cars start with a low decel setting for that very reason. Anyway reducing the decel seems to make the problem worse and at 0 where there should be no issue the issue is severe. at 50% the car was much more manageable and at 100% it actually drove pretty good, still a little lift off oversteer but this car is heavy in the rear so some lift off is normal on this type of car.

So my testing with this car appears that the decel numbers are reversed from what they should and a setting of 100 gives what would be expected at 0 so the default setting of 35 would be 65 if this be the case and would explain the exaggerated lift off I have been seeing in most every RWD car.

FR cars are not prone to lift off oversteer in real life. Out of 50 or so FR cars I have owned none of them were, not one.

FF cars are another matter, they are commonly know to raise one rear wheel off the road while cornering hard. FR cars do not normally do that.

The Cougar I mentioned had a pretty quick steering setup on it, much more so than pre 1969 models I have driven and also had a sport suspension upgrade along with a high output engine and heavy duty trans. I had another one without the sport suspension and the handling difference between the two was dramatic to say the least.

At any rate the game does exhibit lift off in cases where it shouldn't and it appears that the diff setting is the real culprit, It simply does not seem to work correctly as has been the case in some other versions of Forza over the years.

I still need to test this with a few more cars but the testing I did tonight was pretty convincing with the test car being much more stable under liftoff conditions with a decel of 50% or more and was most stable at 100%.

 

[Ialyrn]

@HBR-Roadhog Just out of curiosity, which car is it you are referencing in your post? The one you have been tuning that is.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

In this case it is the noble which can be a bit of a tail happy beast.

It looks as though I may have spoken to soon about the diff though. After many more laps of testing it is not nearly as clear as it seemed in that first session. I just ran multiple laps at 0 followed by multiple laps at 100 and repeated that several times. At times I could tell very little difference between the two and at other times 100 felt better than 0 and yet other times 0 felt better than 100. I can't even be sure that the settings were being correctly applied each time. I mean the numbers said they were but the feel of the car did not always support that. So now I just do not know.

The only think I can state for sure at this point is that my laps were faster and more consistent when the decel was set to 100.

Another issue when driving a lot of laps tuning is sometimes one will begin to alter the way they drive without even realizing it and lead to thinking something is helping that really isn't. The reverse can also be true at times.

It is frustrating sometimes when you know a given tweak should have this effect and when you make the tweak it does not have the expected effect or worse seems to have the opposite effect and causes you to go the other direction even though all logic tells you not to.

 

[RacerPaul]

The physics in FM6? I couldn't say if they're realistic because I don't drive irl, believe it or not

I do know that I like how it plays though

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

In this case it is the noble which can be a bit of a tail happy beast.

It looks as though I may have spoken to soon about the diff though. After many more laps of testing it is not nearly as clear as it seemed in that first session. I just ran multiple laps at 0 followed by multiple laps at 100 and repeated that several times. At times I could tell very little difference between the two and at other times 100 felt better than 0 and yet other times 0 felt better than 100. I can't even be sure that the settings were being correctly applied each time. I mean the numbers said they were but the feel of the car did not always support that. So now I just do not know.

The only think I can state for sure at this point is that my laps were faster and more consistent when the decel was set to 100.

Another issue when driving a lot of laps tuning is sometimes one will begin to alter the way they drive without even realizing it and lead to thinking something is helping that really isn't. The reverse can also be true at times.

It is frustrating sometimes when you know a given tweak should have this effect and when you make the tweak it does not have the expected effect or worse seems to have the opposite effect and causes you to go the other direction even though all logic tells you not to.

No idea why you're eperiencing these issues but for me a diff decel at 100% causes excessive understeer while an accel at 100% causes excessive oversteer.

On my rwd cars i usually have the diff somewhere between 30-50 for the accel and 1-30 for the decel and the cars react exactly how i'd expect them to.

For the lift off oversteer, have you tried altering the spring rates to shift the weight around a bit?

 

[Ialyrn]

In this case it is the noble which can be a bit of a tail happy beast.

Well, I have just taken the Noble M600 out completely stock, with no settings adjusted in the tuning menu. It is how T10 have put it in the game. To to be quite honest, it was a pleasure to drive it. The car felt very stable to me, and was easy to push. If I felt the back end begin to step out, I was able to cancel it out with a little opposite-lock. And I was able to accelerate smoothly out of the corners. I personally do not see it behaving in an undesirable manor, which you can see for yourself in my video.



All in all, I quite enjoyed it. To the point I was able to take it to 868 on the world wide S-class leaderboard on Nurb GP, with a time of 02:07.360. This is without ABS/TCS/STM, which you can check on the LB. So this does open up some questions, and please don't take them the wrong way. I am just trying to find out why you are having this problem, and if there is anything that can be suggested to help reduce it happening. And lets be realistic here, the inputs the end user makes while driving, are vastly more important than how you change the car via tuning. That is not to say tuning is not important, because it is. But it is possible there is something that needs to change with you directly, as opposed to the cars themselves. Though I am not saying you are bad at playing Forza, so please don't misconstrue my words. Anyway, on to the questions, which some I admit are a little insulting. Not the intention though.

1, What is your current setup? Do you have a 3 pedal set with your wheel, and a separate shifter?

2, Are you timing your downshifts properly, or are you spamming them on the paddle shifters, or skipping gears if you have a H-shifter?

3, If you are using a TX wheel, what are your sensitivity settings at on the hardware level?

4, What are your deadzones and DOR set too?

5, Are you coasting through the corners, or are you keeping some throttle on to help maintain the cars balance?

6, Are you braking late and hard, trying to gain as much time as you possibly can in the braking zone?

7, Are your steering inputs smooth, or are you aggressively turning it?

8, Are you counter steering enough when the rear does get loose?

Basically, are you keeping the main fundamentals of driving intact while racing/hotlapping in Forza? Or are you treating it too much like a video game? I know that sounds odd, but as I mentioned in my first post. People tend to drive differently in a video game, to how they would in the real world through a number of factors.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

No idea why you're eperiencing these issues but for me a diff decel at 100% causes excessive understeer while an accel at 100% causes excessive oversteer.

On my rwd cars i usually have the diff somewhere between 30-50 for the accel and 1-30 for the decel and the cars react exactly how i'd expect them to.

For the lift off oversteer, have you tried altering the spring rates to shift the weight around a bit?

I've been trying lots of stuff but thus far it has been hard to find anything that works as a general rule. Some cars of course are more difficult to tame than others. The Noble may be one of the worst especially when you do the engine swap as it is very tail heavy.
On this car even with stiff front springs, softer rear springs, stiff front ARB and softer rear, lowered rear ride height upgrade rear tire with, negative toe on rear it still gets a lot of liftoff over steer and while at first I saw it improve at 100% or seem to anyway I can't now confirm that.

I have had it to where I can get it around the track pretty fast with 100% acel and 100% decel but it i far from what I would call stable.

I guess my best move is to move to a different car and run some tests to see what results I get.

@Ialyrn try putting in the engine swap and take it around Indy Oval at high speed and see what happens when you lift while turning at over 170 mph

It can be controlled with very careful throttle and steering inputs

I really don't want to go into all the settings nor the basics of driving. I have did lots of it and know what I am doing. I've just been seeing some very odd things going on in Forza 6 thus far especially on some cars under some conditions.

 

[Ialyrn]

try putting in the engine swap and take it around Indy Oval at high speed and see what happens when you lift while turning at over 170 mph

Of course a car will lose control under that circumstance. What do you think would happen taking a high speed bend on an oval, and then lifting off the throttle?

It can be controlled with very careful throttle inputs

And that is what you should be doing while driving, in the real world or in a sim based racing game. Smooth is fast remember, and the smoother your inputs and driving overall. The better lap time you will put in, and the more controlled the car will remain.

I really don't want to go into all the settings nor the basics of driving. I have did lots of it and know what I am doing.

If you are not willing to share details, then no one will be able to help you find out what is causing your issues. The fact of the matter here is, is that something on your end is obviously causing your woes. That could be the settings you are using on your wheel or ingame, or down to your own ability. And regardless of how much experience you have in racing games, it doesn't mean that you are doing things correctly. Ive been playing racing games for 26 years, and there are times when I have had difficulty's. And I realized pretty quickly that it was me causing the issues, and I had to adapt and change.

Ive never raced with you personally, but I would be very interested in you either showing a video of your driving with telemetry open like I have. Or PM me your Xbox live name, so that I can look for you on the FM6 leaderboards and view your driving on there. The latter would be the least time consuming for you, and requires no effort apart from sharing your GT with me.

I've just been seeing some very odd things going on in Forza 6 thus far especially on some cars under some conditions.

I am not noticing any odd behavior when it comes to driving in Forza. Again, this is why answering those questions I put towards you will help in this regard. As it will help you ascertain if the issue is with your driving style, or the settings you are using in game and on your wheel hardware.

The choice is yours, but if you do not wish to have any help. Then I will happily leave you to it.

 

[Tornado]

I don't really understand how a mid-engined car being made very tail heavy from an engine swap and then reacting badly to huge mid-corner throttle changes at high speed is anything other than real life behavior. I've never driven a Porsche of any flavor, but that sounds an awful lot like the exact thing they've fought with the 911 for the past 50+ years. I have driven two different generations of MR2; and the "problem" being described also sounds an awful lot like what happened when I spun out the SW20 Turbo a friend had in college going only 50 on an empty stretch of backwoods highway. And it was a problem that the much lighter and much better balanced W30 my cousin currently owns doesn't come close to doing when hooning it similarly (albeit with more experience).

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I do appreciate that some are trying to help, but the basic questions and advice get a bit annoying. I use a wheel and I am very good at both tuning and driving on oval tracks. If you would like confirmation have a look at the leaderboard on Daytona in S and P classes, not only will you see my name near the top but you will see that most of those who posted top times are driving the car I built.

So please no beginner level advice and yes I use a wheel and have been doing so for a long time so it is not an issue of me not knowing how to drive.

The Noble is indeed an extreme case and I do not expect anyone to even begin to understand how it behaves until they have tried to get it around a high speed sweeping corner at high speed. I only mentioned that car because that I thought I saw something with the diff last night while tuning it. During my second session I was unable to confirm that my initial thoughts were correct though. Part of that is simply because the car is so hard to drive at these types of speeds.

I just did some testing with another MR car and that was a bit easier to confirm what I thought I saw last night and that is that the car exhibts less lift off oversteer with the decel set to 100 than when set to 0. In testing the NSX which is tuned specifically for Indy and does rather well there I find that with the decel set to 0 if I hit turn 3 at speed and lift fully as I start to turn in then the tail of the car gets very loose very quickly and if I do not get back on the throttle quickly then it is gone. If I set the decel at 100 and do the same test I find that I can stay completely off the throttle for a while before I feel the rear start to step out very much at all and it is very easy to gather back up with just a minor amount of throttle.

So the result of that test would appear that to decrease lift off oversteer in this car the decel needs to be increased logic and the game both indicate that decreasing this value would decrease the oversteer but it is in fact the exact opposite on this car as I had thought last night with the Noble during my initial test.

I do not even care if it is backwards, I am just trying to figure out how it is working in FM6 so I can save some time tuning my cars by making the proper adjustments to get the desired effect. Every Forza I have played has had some oddities in tuning that had to be figured out before being able to do the really fast setups and this one appears to be no different other than some of the oddities have changed which is what is causing me confusion.

My purpose for posting was not to dis Forza in general but in hopes that someone had already figured this out and could simply say oh yeah you need to do it like this but no such luck.

 

[VXR]

You're lifting off the throttle in a high-load situation on an oval. Of course the car is going to spin out. Why are you even testing it for that? You keep your foot in unless you need to trim your line and that's with a gentle lift on the throttle.

 

[Ialyrn]

I use a wheel and I am very good at both tuning and driving on oval tracks. If you would like confirmation have a look at the leaderboard on Daytona in S

Right......... Because it is so very hard to get a top 10 time on an oval track!



And yes, I am been sarcastic there. Lets face it, oval driving does take skill. I wont deny that. But it doesn't require that much in a hot lap situation with no one else on track. All you have to do, is keep your foot planted and turn left. I don't even drive ovals, because I find it boring an monotonous.

I will say however, regardless of how I feel over oval racing. and how sarcastic I just was. I did use your S7 tune, as I couldn't be bothered to tune it myself. and I did rather enjoy. To the point that I may try it out on a road circuit, possibly le mans.

 

[Fat Tyre]

I'm not sure how relevant you guys will think this video is but it shows Aleksi Uusi-Jaakkola from Team Redline driving literally at the Nurb going against Michael Bartels running in a real BMW gt3. Aleksi when asked says that he only had a couple of laps before this race to get used to but that he thought that Forza 6 is "good" and nodded in sign of approval. This guy apparently races in iRacing at the World Championship level (I didn't even know there was such a thing), it's pretty cool to see how their laps matched so well. I imagine that if Forza 6's physics were bad he would have had a hard adjusting to the game coming from iRacing but he adapted quickly and was fast from the start.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Right......... Because it is so very hard to get a top 10 time on an oval track!



And yes, I am been sarcastic there. Lets face it, oval driving does take skill. I wont deny that. But it doesn't require that much in a hot lap situation with no one else on track. All you have to do, is keep your foot planted and turn left. I don't even drive ovals, because I find it boring an monotonous.

I will say however, regardless of how I feel over oval racing. and how sarcastic I just was. I did use your S7 tune, as I couldn't be bothered to tune it myself. and I did rather enjoy. To the point that I may try it out on a road circuit, possibly le mans.

Thanks, am glad you liked it.
I agree that driving on an oval is much different than circuits, I did not even like ovals before I started playing Forza but my brother loves them and there we can have some good racing plus it does feel good to be on top of the LB sometimes Startfast does not make it easy though. Every time I manage to get #1 he comes out and beats me again.

I actually prefer circuits and I love to run on Nurburgring where I see you have some impressive times yourself.
I have not yet started tuning much for circuits but will be very soon. Right now I have two issues with driving on circuits in FM6 one is my wheel. It is fine for ovals but it is a far cry from what I am used to using.

I bought the 458 spider which has no force feedback at all, just a bungie type return mechanism It can mimic 900 degrees but only to a point. On the two ovals it feels like 900 because they do not require much input but when in this mode if you turn it much more than that then it oversteers something fierce making hairpins and even semi tight corners a real adventure. When set to mode 3 it starts out feeling like it is about 700 or so and I can navigate most tracks without an issue but tight hairpin are still a challenge. On mode 1 it is straight up 240 degrees far to touchy for my tastes. I have not tried mode 2 yet.

Being that I am used to using the Fanatec Elite and CS pedals it is a big change for sure and will take some time. Add to that that some cars oversteer an unexpected amount and turning down the diff made it worse rather than better caused even more issues but I think I have the diff sorted out now.

I just tried one more test using an old Mustang beefed up a little to get some speed and ran some tests on the diff, The Mustang of course had much less of an issue than the MR cars but I found that if I set the diff to 0 decel and lifted into the corner the tail would come out managable but loose during liftoff. I tried the same thing at 100 decel and could not make the rear slide at all so for me that pretty much settles the confusion and I now know that I will need to increase the decel to limit liftoff or decrease decel to induce some lift off. I have not yet tested AWD nor FWD but will get around to it later.

For tuning circuits I am still looking for a good test track as much as I like the ring it is to long to do basic setups. I have been using Road Atlanta club a bit but I am still looking for a track that has a couple of more features for testing. On Forza 3 and 4 I used Maple Valley and Maple Valley Short a lot. Those tracks had a curb that was easy to hit and would flip a car over if the suspension was not setup properly.

Do you know of any reasonably short tracks in FM6 that have such a curb that would be good for testing?

 

[Ialyrn]

@HBR-Roadhog You could try COTA as a track to tune for road circuits, as it has a decent combination of corners and elevation changes. And is relatively short.

As for the wheel you are using, that may be what is causing your issues. Obviously with no FFB, it makes it an entirely different sensation when using it. More so with you having a Fanatec CSR Elite? Which I assume you used on FM4? Which means you will be used to reading the force feedback of a fairly decent wheel.

I used to own a Thrustmaster TX when FM5 released, and it was a pretty good wheel. Until it broke. I have been using a G27 on the pc racing games I play since November, and just picked up a Logitech G920 wheel for the Xbox one. So I am getting a bit more information than you, which may be why I am not seeing an issue with regards to excessive oversteer. As I have the information present to predict and counteract it before it becomes an issue.

If you decide up upgrade from your current wheel, and assuming Thrustmaster have solved the reliability issues. Then it is worth a look. But then so is the G920 wheel, plus Logitech have a decent record for reliability. And the outlay is a little less, as you get a clutch from the go. And the shifter isn't exactly a lot of extra on top. Something that I didn't need to buy, as I have the G27 shifter which works with the G920 wheel.

 

[JTB10000]

The one thing about Forza's physics I hate is the ridiculous snap oversteer. I'll never feel safe in a car again if that happens in real life.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

I do appreciate that some are trying to help, but the basic questions and advice get a bit annoying. I use a wheel and I am very good at both tuning and driving on oval tracks. If you would like confirmation have a look at the leaderboard on Daytona in S and P classes, not only will you see my name near the top but you will see that most of those who posted top times are driving the car I built.

So please no beginner level advice and yes I use a wheel and have been doing so for a long time so it is not an issue of me not knowing how to drive.

The Noble is indeed an extreme case and I do not expect anyone to even begin to understand how it behaves until they have tried to get it around a high speed sweeping corner at high speed. I only mentioned that car because that I thought I saw something with the diff last night while tuning it. During my second session I was unable to confirm that my initial thoughts were correct though. Part of that is simply because the car is so hard to drive at these types of speeds.

I just did some testing with another MR car and that was a bit easier to confirm what I thought I saw last night and that is that the car exhibts less lift off oversteer with the decel set to 100 than when set to 0. In testing the NSX which is tuned specifically for Indy and does rather well there I find that with the decel set to 0 if I hit turn 3 at speed and lift fully as I start to turn in then the tail of the car gets very loose very quickly and if I do not get back on the throttle quickly then it is gone. If I set the decel at 100 and do the same test I find that I can stay completely off the throttle for a while before I feel the rear start to step out very much at all and it is very easy to gather back up with just a minor amount of throttle.

So the result of that test would appear that to decrease lift off oversteer in this car the decel needs to be increased logic and the game both indicate that decreasing this value would decrease the oversteer but it is in fact the exact opposite on this car as I had thought last night with the Noble during my initial test.

I do not even care if it is backwards, I am just trying to figure out how it is working in FM6 so I can save some time tuning my cars by making the proper adjustments to get the desired effect. Every Forza I have played has had some oddities in tuning that had to be figured out before being able to do the really fast setups and this one appears to be no different other than some of the oddities have changed which is what is causing me confusion.

My purpose for posting was not to dis Forza in general but in hopes that someone had already figured this out and could simply say oh yeah you need to do it like this but no such luck.

OK, no idea if this will work for ovals as i don't race them but it does work for circuit racing when the back end steps out lifting on long sweepers. Forget about the diff as having the decel all the way up at 100% isn't really the answer, try working on the aero instead.

Reduce the front to minimum and have the rear at max and work your way up/down. if it's still a little twitchy even with min front and max rear try reducing the tyre width on the front as well.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

OK, no idea if this will work for ovals as i don't race them but it does work for circuit racing when the back end steps out lifting on long sweepers. Forget about the diff as having the decel all the way up at 100% isn't really the answer, try working on the aero instead.

Reduce the front to minimum and have the rear at max and work your way up/down. if it's still a little twitchy even with min front and max rear try reducing the tyre width on the front as well.

Thanks for the effort but where aero is an otpion I do use it.

That car I was testing was running and needed full aero. On many oval tunes aero is not an option at all and you must use the suspension and diff to get the car around corners. Any extra aero drag on many oval setups will make the car to slow to compete.

In the case of the noble on indy it is not just a matter of making it stable, that is easy enough to do but to make it stable and fast enough to compete with the top time on the board is where the challenge is at.

Take the S7 for example that I shared for Daytona. It is now fairly easy to hit 250mph and make it round the corners flat out but it required a lot of suspension tuning to do that. without the suspension tuning the tail will fly out before you can blink once you get over 240 or so and hit a corner.

@Ialyrn I have been considering the Logitech wheel, hate to spend that much just to use it on XB1 but I may. I am also considering the T150 as it is about half the price.

The CSR Elite is a very nice wheel and I use that on FM3 and 4 as well as on GT5 and 6 and PC racers that I play such as Project cars. I also have a Fanatec Turbo S and I have a Logitech DFGT. Makes it hard for me to justify spending a lot of a wheel that I would only use on the XB1 as none of the current offerings aside from the very expensive ones compare to the Fanatec I already have.

 

[VXR]

The one thing about Forza's physics I hate is the ridiculous snap oversteer. I'll never feel safe in a car again if that happens in real life.

That's an issue with sim steering. It barely does it on normal steering, except in extremis.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

Thanks for the effort but where aero is an otpion I do use it.

That car I was testing was running and needed full aero. On many oval tunes aero is not an option at all and you must use the suspension and diff to get the car around corners. Any extra aero drag on many oval setups will make the car to slow to compete.

In the case of the noble on indy it is not just a matter of making it stable, that is easy enough to do but to make it stable and fast enough to compete with the top time on the board is where the challenge is at.

Take the S7 for example that I shared for Daytona. It is now fairly easy to hit 250mph and make it round the corners flat out but it required a lot of suspension tuning to do that. without the suspension tuning the tail will fly out before you can blink once you get over 240 or so and hit a corner.

I'm all out of answers then my friend. Do yourself a favour, get off the ovals and do some real racing

 

[glassjaw]

The vast majority of cars been built in the last 10 years, will have driver aids to some degree in them. Such as STM, which helps to reduce the likely hood of a spin. The cars are designed around them now, and they are more advanced than they was a decade ago. Especially with cars like the Mclaren P1, which are designed to be driven with those driver aids engaged. Even at speed on a track, as the system used can learn and make you slightly faster. If you asked a Mclaren engineer how to disable those systems in that car, I bet they would think you was insane. With those aids turned off, the car would be a major handful. Just like it is in Forza, and just like it is in Assetto Corsa. Regardless of the levels of mechanical grip it has. With those aids turned off in a video game, we have to be more mindful of all our inputs. With those aids turned on in a video game, we can just mash the throttle, and slam the car left/right to a point. And it will stay vastly more in control than without them. Even the F458 is designed not to have those systems turned off in real life, and the newer Lotus Exige S is also the same. We all know how much more difficult those last 2 cars are to control in Forza with those driver aids turned off, and again, it is the same story in Assetto Corsa. Which also has those 2 cars in it. Even something like a 3rd Ford Focus Zetec has some driver aids built in, and they lull us all into a false sense a security. And they reduce undesirable effects when our driving is less than good. In racing games, if you are like me, you will turn all those aids off. Including ABS.

This is exactly why I wish FM6 featured "real" settings for TCS, STM, and ABS (like Project Cars) and that they were modifiable individually by car. Although if you treat driver aids as something that ought to be activated on certain cars, especially newer ones, that philosophy doesn't mesh with Forza's reward payouts. Like you're saying, given the chance to drive a P1 in real life nobody would turn everything off, so to dare players to do it is actually kind of strange. Though I guess that's the result of years of sim players looking down on/bashing driver aids; ironically, most of them would never have the courage to try such a thing with some of these cars in real life.

 

[Speedster911]

This is exactly why I wish FM6 featured "real" settings for TCS, STM, and ABS (like Project Cars) and that they were modifiable individually by car. Although if you treat driver aids as something that ought to be activated on certain cars, especially newer ones, that philosophy doesn't mesh with Forza's reward payouts. Like you're saying, nobody in their right mind would drive a P1 with everything off, so to dare players to do it is actually kind of strange. Though I guess that's the result of years of sim players looking down on/bashing driver aids; ironically, most of them would never have the courage to try such a thing with some of these cars in real life.

Absolutely love driving the P1 (along with many other high-perf cars) with TCS off. I keep all aids off to get the most out of the game. IRL.... hmm, I'd probably leave TCS on!

BTW, do all AI cars in EVERY race have TCS enabled? They never kick up smoke or leave behind tread marks at the starting grid the way they did in the demo.. it just looked grand, that's all!

 

[Ialyrn]

So apparently this car is "practically unusable" in FM6, so I gave it a run. The car is stock.



I then got asked what it proved, and if the lap was done on a wheel or control pad. Not that it matters, but the lap was done on the Logitech G920 wheel.

So I decided to head out again with the car, on the same track, but this time with the control pad just to see how unusable the car really is. And as such, I pushed the car even harder than before.



As you can see, I didnt run into any issues. In fact, I was 2 seconds a lap faster on the controller. So all my experiment served to prove, was the fact I wasn't pushing the car hard enough on the wheel. And that it has more to offer.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So apparently this car is "practically unusable" in FM6, so I gave it a run. The car is stock.



I then got asked what it proved, and if the lap was done on a wheel or control pad. Not that it matters, but the lap was done on the Logitech G920 wheel.

So I decided to head out again with the car, on the same track, but this time with the control pad just to see how unusable the car really is. And as such, I pushed the car even harder than before.



As you can see, I didnt run into any issues. In fact, I was 2 seconds a lap faster on the controller. So all my experiment served to prove, was the fact I wasn't pushing the car hard enough on the wheel. And that it has more to offer.

Is that with normal or simulation steering? Not surprised people are struggling going by them videos and my experience of demo. Good that a number of people are speaking out about handling whether it be TeamVVV or users on their own forum, hopefully the next game is a massive improvement.

The real car looks like it drives much better:

 

[BoneSawTX]

The massive improvement needs to be in people's tuning and driving.

 

[VXR]

Haha, yeah. How much better people want these cars to drive seems to me they want them to barely ever get out of shape, but still be able to drive them like you stole it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The massive improvement needs to be in people's tuning and driving.

That helps with driving around the problems of how the cars handle.

 

[VXR]

Theres far bigger problems in other games that hinder the experience than those here.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Theres far bigger problems in other games that hinder the experience than those here.

In physics, if so what are these bigger problems in other games that hinder the experience?

 

[Ialyrn]

The real car looks like it drives much better

Compared to the lap I did on the xbox one control pad, I would have to agree. But not when comparing the lap I did on the wheel to the real life footage you have showed. I was not pushing the car as hard with the wheel, and I had the same "hiccups" in the same area's as the real world driver. I was taking note of where they had to apply counter steer, no matter how small.

The issue here is, is that people are expecting Forza to be like burnout. I am seeing with ever more frequency, that people are all or nothing on the inputs they are making. And this is what is causing the issues they are seeing. When it comes to my driving, I try to be as smooth as I possibly can. And by doing so, I am not seeing these issues with the handling that others are. Not only that, but I can only replicate their issues when I drive like an utter tool. I am not saying that Forza is perfect, because it isnt. It still has area's where it needs improvements. But no sim based racing game is perfect, and they all have issues in the same sort of area's.