Forza Horizon 5: General Discussion

[UKMikey]

I can't say I've ever had a real problem with The Trial. Most of the time I'M the problem.

 

[-Fred-]

It turned out way easier than I thought in the end. The AI will plow in traffic themselves most of the time, we finished both races 1-6 and cleared house quite convincingly.

 

[Anakalaron]

Unlikely, but would love to see cars like the Ford Country Squire, Honda Odyssey, and Pontiac Aztek returned.
The Odyssey and Aztek in particular were clearly the right cars for Horizon. The fact that they only appeared in Motorsport and never in Horizon is odd.

That the developers put these cars in a dedicated racing game in the first place was ludicrous. And putting them in Horizon is at best pointless. But more to my point. Including some off the wall cars and leaving out actual cars which fit well within the car culture of racing and a racing car festival atmosphere shows the developers total lack of knowledge of car culture. And their lack of knowledge of car racing experience both on and off road. In fact of all venues of car racing and building of racing and street cars and street rods.
This game has the potential to be so much greater than it actually is but it will never achieve more than what you see is what you get.
My expectations for FH6 are so low that FH5 is absolutely my last foray into the forza lineup of any kind even the next Motorsport. Which is likely to be just an update of FM7.
Planning on moving on from xbox anyway to the PS5 as soon as funds and units are available.

 

[UKMikey]

This isn't an airport.

 

[Populuxe]

The Trial this week is street racing with traffic on top of your useless teammates.

Just to add to the joy, I built up my VW Pickup for the race, and totally forgot to tune the final drive. So I was limited to 80 mph. That's just under 129 kph for our friends from Not America. I wasn't even able to reach the finish line, I was so slow. But the good news is the AI ran into all the traffic. I was still able to beat at least three AI cars in each race and we won easily.

 

[SU_Tempest]

I can't say I've ever had a real problem with The Trial. Most of the time I'M the problem.

So it was you!!...
I kid of course. Trials don't go too badly for me most of the time, I just remember it most when they really go wrong.

That the developers put these cars in a dedicated racing game in the first place was ludicrous. And putting them in Horizon is at best pointless. But more to my point. Including some off the wall cars and leaving out actual cars which fit well within the car culture of racing and a racing car festival atmosphere shows the developers total lack of knowledge of car culture. And their lack of knowledge of car racing experience both on and off road. In fact of all venues of car racing and building of racing and street cars and street rods.
This game has the potential to be so much greater than it actually is but it will never achieve more than what you see is what you get.
My expectations for FH6 are so low that FH5 is absolutely my last foray into the forza lineup of any kind even the next Motorsport. Which is likely to be just an update of FM7.
Planning on moving on from xbox anyway to the PS5 as soon as funds and units are available.

That's a lot of words just to say "Forza didn't meet my expectations therefore it sucks."
Yawn.

 

[UKMikey]

But the good news is the AI ran into all the traffic. I was still able to beat at least three AI cars in each race and we won easily.

They don't call it a trial for nothing but it's good to know this week's has comic elements along with the usual tragedic ones.

So it was you!!...
I kid of course.

Usually it's picking the wrong car or getting rammed so I miss a checkpoint.

 

[Famine]

Usually it's picking the wrong car or getting rammed so I miss a checkpoint.

Speaking of, I rammed the second-place AI out of a checkpoint in my The Trial, and they just kept on going but in 12th place.

Ages and ages back I rammed an AI out of a checkpoint (literally yards out of it; it wasn't close) and they carried on in their position as if checkpoints didn't matter. I noticed more recently that the AI actually needed to go through checkpoints when one got rewound right next to me, but this one didn't rewind.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Speaking of, I rammed the second-place AI out of a checkpoint in my The Trial, and they just kept on going but in 12th place.

Ages and ages back I rammed an AI out of a checkpoint (literally yards out of it; it wasn't close) and they carried on in their position as if checkpoints didn't matter. I noticed more recently that the AI actually needed to go through checkpoints when one got rewound right next to me, but this one didn't rewind.

Maybe it just barely passed the threshold but appeared not to due to desync? It does seem a little more generous than it looks, and the AI sometimes has... very strange positions and behaviors online. I graze the very edge of the checkpoint flags sometimes, and I've had more than a few "Oh no, I'm gonna get rewound" moments, only to find out it passes; perhaps it happens to the AI as well once in a blue moon?

 

[Famine]

Maybe it just barely passed the threshold? It does seem a little more generous than it looks. I graze the very edge of the checkpoint flags sometimes, and I've had more than a few "Oh no, I'm gonna get rewound" moments, only to find out it passes; perhaps it happens to the AI as well once in a blue moon?

It was miles out It also got immediately rattled down the order from 2nd to 12th, so clearly it was classed as having missed the checkpoint - but it kept on driving. I was second, another human third, and this AI was between us in 12th for 65% of the race

 

[UKMikey]

Maybe the "Trial" moniker indicates part of the code is still in beta.

 

[SU_Tempest]

It was miles out It also got immediately rattled down the order from 2nd to 12th, so clearly it was classed as having missed the checkpoint - but it kept on driving. I was second, another human third, and this AI was between us in 12th for 65% of the race

Wow. That's some pure alien behavior. Usually, I blame desync on this but the AI works in mysterious (and honestly, at times unfair) ways.

 

[UKMikey]

Wow. That's some pure alien behavior. Usually, I blame desync on this but the AI works in mysterious (and honestly, at times unfair) ways.

Please, Mr. Brown... next time I attempt the Urban Cross-"Country", I would like some of that AI tyre compound that absorbs drops of several feet without transferring any of the shock to the suspension.

 

[Cloudy]

That the developers put these cars in a dedicated racing game in the first place was ludicrous. And putting them in Horizon is at best pointless. But more to my point. Including some off the wall cars and leaving out actual cars which fit well within the car culture of racing and a racing car festival atmosphere shows the developers total lack of knowledge of car culture. And their lack of knowledge of car racing experience both on and off road. In fact of all venues of car racing and building of racing and street cars and street rods.
This game has the potential to be so much greater than it actually is but it will never achieve more than what you see is what you get.
My expectations for FH6 are so low that FH5 is absolutely my last foray into the forza lineup of any kind even the next Motorsport. Which is likely to be just an update of FM7.
Planning on moving on from xbox anyway to the PS5 as soon as funds and units are available.

Right then have fun with the crap show that is Gran Turismo 7 lol.

 

[WanganDream]

That the developers put these cars in a dedicated racing game in the first place was ludicrous. And putting them in Horizon is at best pointless. But more to my point. Including some off the wall cars and leaving out actual cars which fit well within the car culture of racing and a racing car festival atmosphere shows the developers total lack of knowledge of car culture. And their lack of knowledge of car racing experience both on and off road. In fact of all venues of car racing and building of racing and street cars and street rods.
This game has the potential to be so much greater than it actually is but it will never achieve more than what you see is what you get.
My expectations for FH6 are so low that FH5 is absolutely my last foray into the forza lineup of any kind even the next Motorsport. Which is likely to be just an update of FM7.
Planning on moving on from xbox anyway to the PS5 as soon as funds and units are available.

The history of Forza has included the "wrong" cars since 2005.
And we had so much fun with it. Prius turned into the community's fun meme car, Hummer going on a car soccer rampage, PT Cruiser engine swapped into a monster machine, Suzuki Liana beating up GT-Rs and Ferraris... These scenes were commonplace at Forza.

It would be a problem if the majority of the car list consisted of only these cars, but the freedom to choose such cars was one of the reasons why Forza was so beloved.
And...if you want a serious racing game, I would recommend a PC upgrade, not PS5, and ACC or iRacing.
Because the "wrong" cars are included in the data mining list for GT7...

 

[Populuxe]

If Forza only included "actual" cars, it would be boring as hell. If anything, all those "off the wall" cars reinforces the fact that PG truly understands car culture.

 

[Anakalaron]

The history of Forza has included the "wrong" cars since 2005.
And we had so much fun with it. Prius turned into the community's fun meme car, Hummer going on a car soccer rampage, PT Cruiser engine swapped into a monster machine, Suzuki Liana beating up GT-Rs and Ferraris... These scenes were commonplace at Forza.

It would be a problem if the majority of the car list consisted of only these cars, but the freedom to choose such cars was one of the reasons why Forza was so beloved.
And...if you want a serious racing game, I would recommend a PC upgrade, not PS5, and ACC or iRacing.
Because the "wrong" cars are included in the data mining list for GT7...

It's not so much the want of a serious racing game. But that the developers haven't a clue about the automotive world. As I first stated, this could be so much more than what it is. If the developers had a basic knowledge of cars and car culture. It just comes so close on so many levels. But just misses the mark so far on so many other areas. It doesn't have to be ACC or a PC sim racer. All they have to do is spend a few weekends out in the trenches on a Friday/ Saturday night learning about the night time car scene. Spend some time at a few tracks hanging with some race teams, learning about racing. Then I think they could turn this game around and make it an absolute killer game. Without getting into the full on sim racing world. I think they're going for too much of a general gamer player base and that's only going to make racing in this game more of a bash-fest and less of a great racing challenge.

 

[Komrad Syka]

That the developers put these cars in a dedicated racing game in the first place was ludicrous. And putting them in Horizon is at best pointless. But more to my point. Including some off the wall cars and leaving out actual cars which fit well within the car culture of racing and a racing car festival atmosphere shows the developers total lack of knowledge of car culture. And their lack of knowledge of car racing experience both on and off road. In fact of all venues of car racing and building of racing and street cars and street rods.
This game has the potential to be so much greater than it actually is but it will never achieve more than what you see is what you get.
My expectations for FH6 are so low that FH5 is absolutely my last foray into the forza lineup of any kind even the next Motorsport. Which is likely to be just an update of FM7.
Planning on moving on from xbox anyway to the PS5 as soon as funds and units are available.

ok and what car culture u wanna say man? mexico? i think forza literally did their job explaining in story, something i did never know before. Forza is the game that likes to put new and never heard brand before like Wuling and Xpeng, which some of people gearheads or gamer never knows it. If u say Aztek and Odyssey is useless addition, why GT likes to add cars that mostly will be in museum. Those cars are fit with the atmosphere of the game. The game is for casual players and not hard/sweaty players. If u want to move to PS5 go ahead man, we don't care at all, this is not airport oh and also PS5 has only GT7 as their racing game which is mediocre and just retrofitted GT Sport.

 

[L8 Apex]

This isn't an airport.

 

[SU_Tempest]

It's not so much the want of a serious racing game. But that the developers haven't a clue about the automotive world. As I first stated, this could be so much more than what it is. If the developers had a basic knowledge of cars and car culture. It just comes so close on so many levels. But just misses the mark so far on so many other areas. It doesn't have to be ACC or a PC sim racer. All they have to do is spend a few weekends out in the trenches on a Friday/ Saturday night learning about the night time car scene. Spend some time at a few tracks hanging with some race teams, learning about racing. Then I think they could turn this game around and make it an absolute killer game. Without getting into the full on sim racing world.

Of all the things that are worthy of concern, if not criticism, like the dodgy servers and connectivity, the models that haven't had a real update since 10+ years ago, the repetitive selection of wheels, cars that could use more bodykits, or the unexplained absence of Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo, or who knows what else I forgot... this is what you're criticizing Forza for?

We have Forza Motorsport if you want more of a real-world racing experience, and the next entry has better chances than the last one to not be a rehash of what came before. Horizon is about the fantasy of taking dream (and not-so-dream) cars, modifying them, and taking them on the road. It has real-world cars and it makes references to real-world car culture, but by and large, FH is not about the real-world car culture and it doesn't need to be. Every standard race is a sprint or a 2-4-lap circuit built from roads that are twice the width of real-world roads because they need to be as drivable as circuits. It's a car-themed fantasy game.

I think they're going for too much of a general gamer player base and that's only going to make racing in this game more of a bash-fest and less of a great racing challenge.

Golly Gee! It's almost like the mass market game is meant to be played by the most people possible. It's almost like it's the point of Forza - to be an accessible real-world car game.

Honestly, I think you're playing the wrong game.

 

[NotThePrez]

It's not so much the want of a serious racing game.

Proceeds to complain about the game being catered too heavily towards "general gamers."

But that the developers haven't a clue about the automotive world.

Lmao.

If the developers had a basic knowledge of cars and car culture.

Define "car culture."

Hint: There is absolutely no one-size-fits-all definition.

It just comes so close on so many levels. But just misses the mark so far on so many other areas. It doesn't have to be ACC or a PC sim racer. All they have to do is spend a few weekends out in the trenches on a Friday/ Saturday night learning about the night time car scene. Spend some time at a few tracks hanging with some race teams, learning about racing. Then I think they could turn this game around and make it an absolute killer game.

JDM/Tuner cars, street racing and track days aren't the end-all-be-all of car culture. This is something that Forza (both Motorsport and Horizon) actually gets quite right compared to a lot of other IPs such NFS or even GT, since those tend to be a lot more focused in on one or a few facets of car culture (i.e. NFS is more focused on tuner/street racing culture, and GT, while having some versatility, is very heavily geared more towards the atmosphere of track days and professional sports car racing).

I think they're going for too much of a general gamer player base and that's only going to make racing in this game more of a bash-fest and less of a great racing challenge.

Yes, that's literally the MO of the Horizon games, and has been since at least Horizon 2 or 3. The big draw for Horizon has always been having the ability to take a bunch of cool (and maybe not-so-cool) vehicles and do whatever the hell you want with them, with options available for players of all kinds of tastes and skill levels. You can have a JDM drift missile, a Top-Of-The-Line Ferrari track car, a purpose-built Rallycross Supercar, and a specially tuned off-road truck all in your garage, and there's at least some use for every single one of those cars in the game. Or, you can go completely off-the-rails and do things like turn a Lambo into a 700HP rally car, or turn a Porsche Cayenne into a powerful track weapon. And you're not really losing out on anything when you make those choices. There's very, very few IPs that allow for that level of variety and versatility, and that's coming from a very long-time Gran Turismo fan.

Now, you're more than welcome to dislike the game if that doesn't suit your particular fancy, and there is plenty to justifiably criticize about Horizon, but you're basically complaining about the things that make Horizon what it is, all of which are very obvious if you watch even a few videos of people playing the game. I'd say the Motorsport games would probably suit your tastes better based on your complaints.

 

[Nacho Libre]

For the sake of being constructive, IMO "car culture" is to broad to be encompassed by a game franchise in whatever the gaming platform. That is why we have variety, from the pure arcade racers, to the strictest of simulators. There is something to cater to every taste and that is good.

And @Anakalaron, I find your statement that "But that the developers haven't a clue about the automotive world. As I first stated, this could be so much more than what it is. If the developers had a basic knowledge of cars and car culture." (verbatim) to be unfounded until you can factually demonstrate that all the people at Turn 10/Playground Games do indeed have an utter lack of knowledge on the subject matter that is their work. In your view they are probably just baboons typing furiously on keyboards to see what comes out.

 

[Obelisk]

Car culture isn't just track days, race weekends or a combination of the two. Car culture, in many of its forms, boils down to a passion for cars. I've come to learn that over the years.

Car culture is enjoying the bland, boring everyday commuters for what they are. Car culture is restoring the family heirloom car to showroom condition. Car culture is dropping a big freaking engine in the bay of a car barely able to handle it, because why not? Car culture is rallying. Drifting. Cruising. Folkraces. Street racing. Hardcore racing i.e. GT3. Car shows. Cars  in shows.

Cars can be time capsules, transplanted decades from their original context. Cars are a symbol of freedom and a symbol of self-expression, and that can take so many different forms. While one group can often throw shade at other communities for their tastes in car personalization or just car preferences, it all comes back down to "I love cars".

To say that PG doesn't understand car culture reeks to me. Especially as the Horizon games have:
1) Had an emphasis on American car culture (Horizon 1)
2) Had an emphasis on European car culture (Horizon 2)
3) Had an emphasis on Australian car culture (Horizon 3)
4) Had an emphasis on British car culture (Horizon 4)
and 5) Had an emphasis on Mexican car culture (Horizon 5).

Each game includes some cars from the prior games' focal points, and so those bits of those regional cultures are carried into the next one. Horizon is a melting pot of car culture: a little bit of everything for everyone. If Horizon being a melting pot in this way is the "developers haven't a clue about the automotive world", then I shudder to think what Anakalaron's specific concept of the automotive world is.

 

[-Fred-]

If the developers had a basic knowledge of cars and car culture.

And who, according to you, is a developper that has a basic knowledge of cars and car culture? I'm genuinely interested in hearing your take on that.

 

[Anakalaron]

Car culture isn't just track days, race weekends or a combination of the two. Car culture, in many of its forms, boils down to a passion for cars. I've come to learn that over the years.

Car culture is enjoying the bland, boring everyday commuters for what they are. Car culture is restoring the family heirloom car to showroom condition. Car culture is dropping a big freaking engine in the bay of a car barely able to handle it, because why not? Car culture is rallying. Drifting. Cruising. Folkraces. Street racing. Hardcore racing i.e. GT3. Car shows. Cars  in shows.

Cars can be time capsules, transplanted decades from their original context. Cars are a symbol of freedom and a symbol of self-expression, and that can take so many different forms. While one group can often throw shade at other communities for their tastes in car personalization or just car preferences, it all comes back down to "I love cars".

To say that PG doesn't understand car culture reeks to me. Especially as the Horizon games have:
1) Had an emphasis on American car culture (Horizon 1)
2) Had an emphasis on European car culture (Horizon 2)
3) Had an emphasis on Australian car culture (Horizon 3)
4) Had an emphasis on British car culture (Horizon 4)
and 5) Had an emphasis on Mexican car culture (Horizon 5).

Each game includes some cars from the prior games' focal points, and so those bits of those regional cultures are carried into the next one. Horizon is a melting pot of car culture: a little bit of everything for everyone. If Horizon being a melting pot in this way is the "developers haven't a clue about the automotive world", then I shudder to think what Anakalaron's specific concept of the automotive world is.

That a game takes place in a specific location, does not equate to car culture. And it's clear, the crowd responding doesn't understand car culture vs game culture. So if you're happy with the game, then I'm happy for you. I'm hopeful something better emerges as new games hit the market in the future.
Moving along, nothing to see here.

And who, according to you, is a developper that has a basic knowledge of cars and car culture? I'm genuinely interested in hearing your take on that.

I'm not sure I can answer that. But an analogy might be something like this:

NFS Heat: not as deep a game as FH5. Comparing the two heat does very little. But comparatively what it does, it does very well. For what it is, the game is a decent game that plays well with minimal bugs. Has good replay value. Car culture in the modabilities of the cars are sufficient as is the painting aspect. Racing and driving physics are sufficient for the style of game. It does what it is supposed to do well.

FH5: It does a multitude of things. It's a massive game. The modabilities of the cars are lacking. Painting is minimally comparable to NFS Heat. For the size and scope of the game I would expect more.
Car modifications are unchanged from FH2. And referring to engine mods. What is the meaning of the screw driver being representative of the highest level of upgrade in the Ignition upgrade?
But for FH5 it does many things, but doesn't do any of them very well. Actually I should say, it doesn't do them as good as it could.
But it's things like the screw driver, and putting racing suspension on a car lowers the PI. Things such as these and a multitude of other things are the things that tell me the developers of Forza are not real car people.
As for a real car people developer, if we can get Jack Roush or Hennessey or someone like that to make a good car game, then I can answer your question 😉

 

[T0MMY3688]

NFS Heat: not as deep a game as FH5. Comparing the two heat does very little. But comparatively what it does, it does very well. For what it is, the game is a decent game that plays well with minimal bugs. Has good replay value. Car culture in the modabilities of the cars are sufficient as is the painting aspect. Racing and driving physics are sufficient for the style of game. It does what it is supposed to do well.

NFS highly focus on a very specific point of car culture, the visual customisation culture and also the more illegal aspect to it. NFS also focus a lot on the building up your cars which is why they chose to have a tiny 200+ car list in NFS Heat.

Forza Horizon chose a more broader take on car culture, bit on visual customisation with LBWK kits, a bit on cars that are part of specific region way of life/culture, like the weird Wuling MPV that is very popular in China for its usability (still not sure why is it in Mexico but interesting addition) or the pile of Holden back in FH3 which were the car culture in Australia. Car culture is just cars that were popular among car lovers and what they do with them.

I do think FH5 feels weak when it comes to Mexico car culture, all they seem to mention is the Beetle and the made in Mexico story don't seem to highlight much of the car culture from what I can remember.

FH5: It does a multitude of things. It's a massive game. The modabilities of the cars are lacking. Painting is minimally comparable to NFS Heat. For the size and scope of the game I would expect more.

I do think the paint system here is better than NFS thanks to the large layer limit and decal creator, it lacks on paint options. NFS has a better paint options and decal can be placed on the windows, also more user friendly for me but no custom decals and the layer limit is very small. Both has its ups and down.

Car modifications are unchanged from FH2. And referring to engine mods. What is the meaning of the screw driver being representative of the highest level of upgrade in the Ignition upgrade?
But for FH5 it does many things, but doesn't do any of them very well. Actually I should say, it doesn't do them as good as it could.
But it's things like the screw driver, and putting racing suspension on a car lowers the PI. Things such as these and a multitude of other things are the things that tell me the developers of Forza are not real car people.
As for a real car people developer, if we can get Jack Roush or Hennessey or someone like that to make a good car game, then I can answer your question 😉

Sure, a screw driver is a stupid thumbnail but the amount of options you can pick and choose to tune your car for a specific builds is better than what NFS provided.

Also, NFS put a lot of attention in the tuning culture because EA owns Speedhunters that fully focused on the tuning/track day culture and have them as support on NFS too. Which really helps NFS on the authenticity of it.

 

[Anakalaron]

Tommy3688, good points made, I think you see my points. I'm not saying FH5 is a bad game. Just that it could be so much better if the developers dig a little deeper.

 

[strela]

As for a real car people developer, if we can get Jack Roush or Hennessey or someone like that to make a good car game

Why do you even believe (expect) a guy with real life racing experience could do a good racing game? Look at Kaz-sama. He made better games when he had less experience racing in real life.
Like you I also think that some changes would make this game better for my personal taste. I just refuse to believe any person without basic knowledge about programming can help much.

Like all those players that are convinced they could help making the game better for everyone by making changes based on personal taste and preferences.

 

[nukleabomb]

Tommy3688, good points made, I think you see my points. I'm not saying FH5 is a bad game. Just that it could be so much better if the developers dig a little deeper.

They problem with digging deeper is that, they can afford to dig deeper in only a few places (whether it is time, budget or manpower).
Focusing in one place might make the other parts of the fandom feel ignored. The last to horizons have done a decent bit to 'dig deeper' in terms of:

• Physics (RWD and FWD being actually viable and enjoyable as well as better suspension feel)
• Wheel gameplay (It seriously has come a long way for FH5)
• Paint options (advanced paint groups and, to some extent, paintable interiors)
• Photo mode (overhaul in FH4)
• Performance customization (Drift tires and suspension)
• Drift camera
• Route Creator (and now Event Lab)
• New Rims and other visual parts (lost rocket bunny)
• Off Road kits
• Sound overhaul (very worth it)

There are other things like Festival Playlist and Eliminator that aren't related to the car "culture" part too.
PGG doesn't operate like Ghost. They make incremental upgrades every horizon (with some downgrades). That has also earned them flak because fans feel it is stagnant.

Unfortunately Ghost seemed to keep changing the formula every single game and ended up with mediocre ones repeatedly.
I don't know how many people prefer the B2D handling of NFS, but it is an instant turn off for me and my friends (who started playing FH from horizon 4, and just NFS prior to that). Hell, Crew 2 feels more cohesive to drive (and more predictable) than whatever NFS has been doing 2015 onwards. The only thing Heat did well were the cops and the performance upgrades. The Crew 2 has long overtaken it in customization (probably the best for licensed cars, with a mixture of manufacturer parts, actual branded parts and fantasy parts) along with interior customization with a much bigger car list than NFS (while having some heavily requested tuner cars that are absent in NFS).

NFS Heat also has had the worst "Live Service" i have seen for an open world racer. The crew 2 is STILL going strong after 4 years since launch. FH4 ended at Year 3. Heat didn't last a single year.
Sorry if it feels like a rant, but my god, NFS has fallen off from the household name it used to be for racing games.

 

[nickf1gr]

The Trial this week is street racing with traffic on top of your useless teammates.

Same mood!!!!