Forza Horizon 5: General Discussion

[Digolgrin]

The EV6 have the same platform as the Hyundai Ioniq 5 that is also available this season. So that design might be intentional so that the EV6 doesn't eat Ioniq 5 marketshare

You also have to remember that Hyundai owns Kia. In this case, since the car update theme is Future Legends, I bet it's so there's two different versions of the Ioniq 5 in there to allow for maximum exposure. You can make one a Hot Hatch and the other a Sports Utility Hero, perhaps.

In fact, we're really only getting two or three unique cars this Series depending on how you slice it. The Dark Horse is based on the 2024 Mustang of course, the Kia EV6 has the same platform as the Ioniq 5 N, and the Taycan Cross Turismo is built upon the Taycan we already have in game. It's just the Yaris and Ioniq 5 N we're getting that are 100% brand new.

 

[DesignLabz]

And the YJ Jeep. We’ve never actually had one before. Although it does have an tiny problem when it gets air

 

[Edax 76]

And the YJ Jeep. We’ve never actually had one before. Although it does have an tiny problem when it gets air

Oh hell yes it does. I hope the fix the issue, as it's quite a good little racer off road until it slams into the ground.

 

[nukleabomb]

In fact, we're really only getting two or three unique cars this Series depending on how you slice it. The Dark Horse is based on the 2024 Mustang of course, the Kia EV6 has the same platform as the Ioniq 5 N, and the Taycan Cross Turismo is built upon the Taycan we already have in game. It's just the Yaris and Ioniq 5 N we're getting that are 100% brand new.

Reducing cars like this would mean that all BMWs on the CLAR platform, all VW, Audi and non sportcar Porsches are MLB platform cars, all Mercs are MRA based and so on, are all the same cars within their companies.

This kind of "slicing" is kinda dumb, because almost every car can be traced back to some other car.

The ioniq is styled more like a retro car while the ev6 is futuristic. The ioniq 5n and the ev6 are very different in their driving behaviour as well, just like the dark horse and the standard GT.

The only car that is pretty much the same is the taycan cross turismo.

 

[Digolgrin]

Reducing cars like this would mean that all BMWs on the CLAR platform, all VW, Audi and non sportcar Porsches are MLB platform cars, all Mercs are MRA based and so on, are all the same cars within their companies.

This kind of "slicing" is kinda dumb, because almost every car can be traced back to some other car.

The ioniq is styled more like a retro car while the ev6 is futuristic. The ioniq 5n and the ev6 are very different in their driving behaviour as well, just like the dark horse and the standard GT.

The only car that is pretty much the same is the taycan cross turismo.

You're right; that was a logical fallacy on my part, I take it back. I've honestly just been disappointed in this update since the stream, lol.

 

[nukleabomb]

You're right; that was a logical fallacy on my part, I take it back. I've honestly just been disappointed in this update since the stream, lol.

Tbf it is polarising, while Retrowave was fully positive. A lot of people dislike the DLC, and a lot want other cars (like the 992 porsche variants). If you wanted a sports car or a supercar (new or old) you are outta luck.

 

[Digolgrin]

Tbf it is polarising, while Retrowave was fully positive. A lot of people dislike the DLC, and a lot want other cars (like the 992 porsche variants). If you wanted a sports car or a supercar (new or old) you are outta luck.

Heck, I was expecting less from this update from Horizon Retrowave anyway--MC20 and a Stellantis-oriented update, or Revuelto and PHEV and EVs at most after the Ioniq 5 was revealed--and I'm still slightly disappointed. At least this week is the Dark Horse, had it been later on in the month and we got the Ioniq as our first week car I'd be very miffed.

 

[nukleabomb]

Heck, I was expecting less from this update from Horizon Retrowave anyway--MC20 and a Stellantis-oriented update, or Revuelto and PHEV and EVs at most after the Ioniq 5 was revealed--and I'm still slightly disappointed. At least this week is the Dark Horse, had it been later on in the month and we got the Ioniq as our first week car I'd be very miffed.

That MC20 is in purgatory for some reason. Both Forza games have had leaks (FM even had an official banner posted online showing it for December 2023 I think).

Revuelto seems to be locked to Motorfest for now.
But I expect to see both of these, later this year, along side the Turbo S, GT3RS and the C8 ZR1.

 

[Digolgrin]

Oh wow, they placed the Dark Horse in the same class as the Mustang GT everyone got with the Race-Off. Talk about making your community rewards instantly obsolete!

 

[skazz]

I’m fine with only natively S class muscle cars appearing in Track Toys. Which would mean the GTD or Shelby variants of the latest Mustang platform.

We already have plenty of fast Mustangs and Camaros in Track Toys after all, including the last gen Gt350 and GT500.


so yeah, it may be a shame for you but it’s good news for me, since I like racing fast Fords in modern muscle class but I always pick other stuff to race in Track Toys.

 

[Populuxe]

 

[skazz]

<pic of Dark Horse>

The front grille reminds me of the last gen RTR Mustangs with those shapes.

Is the Dark Horse a collaboration with RTR somehow, or did they just arrive at the design themselves?

 

[CarbonDaimon]

 

[Edax 76]

What's the betting we get the MC20 at Xmas as the Secret Santa community reward car???😂😂

 

[skazz]

I'm almost 100% certain that it was due to be released in the European Automotive car pack, but they had to recycle in the Pininfarina Battista instead at the very last minute.

The only thing I can think of is that Maserati asked for something that Forza didn't want to accept in order to license it.


Let's not forget that Maserati hasn't had a single new car added since the Levante in FH4:

No new version of the Gran Turismo, no Quattroporte. Both would be a great addition to the game.

Hmmm... Maybe Forza can magic up a licensing agreement for new Maseratis just like they did for Stellantis?

 

[AudiMan2011]

Throwing in the 1850hp upgrade and AWD should get those figures comfortably, shouldn't it?

I was able to hit 200mph in stock form on a run down the freeway. With the Super Pursuit kit and the upgrades 300mph may be possible.

 

[Edax 76]

I was able to hit 200mph in stock form on a run down the freeway. With the Super Pursuit kit and the upgrades 300mph may be possible.

I've hit 278mph with KITT fully upgraded and going flat out on the motorway. 300 mph isn't possible I don't think without building something in Eventlab and playing around.

 

[Famine]

I was able to hit 200mph in stock form on a run down the freeway. With the Super Pursuit kit and the upgrades 300mph may be possible.

I've hit 278mph with KITT fully upgraded and going flat out on the motorway. 300 mph isn't possible I don't think without building something in Eventlab and playing around.

I'm quite sure that KITT's standard top speed was 300mph, and Super Pursuit mode added in Knight of the Juggernaut pushed that by 40% (although we never saw it do so)... so 420mph.

Should be good for some Speed Traps and Danger Signs if they've modelled that accurately. Well, "accurately".


In other news, the "stability and performance" ("various other issues have been addressed") fix seems to have stopped my season-loading craziness, which is nice.

 

[Digolgrin]

I'm almost 100% certain that it was due to be released in the European Automotive car pack, but they had to recycle in the Pininfarina Battista instead at the very last minute.

The only thing I can think of is that Maserati asked for something that Forza didn't want to accept in order to license it.

I wonder if it's something like "we don't want to see our cars racing with traffic on the road." Motorfest does let you use the MC20 in the open world, with traffic, but from what I've seen so far, once you get in a race, traffic's cleared out, you don't ever see a single civvie. Thus, no chance of you ever getting in any simulated danger with a civilian when you're racing.

Forza can't guarantee that because Street Races always include traffic, unless it's in a Seasonal Championship or the game doesn't feel like spawning traffic in that particular instance--thus, Maserati specifically nopes out but no one else in Stellantis's line-up seems to care.

 

[willbsn13]

I'm almost 100% certain that it was due to be released in the European Automotive car pack, but they had to recycle in the Pininfarina Battista instead at the very last minute.

The only thing I can think of is that Maserati asked for something that Forza didn't want to accept in order to license it.


Let's not forget that Maserati hasn't had a single new car added since the Levante in FH4:
View attachment 1366485

No new version of the Gran Turismo, no Quattroporte. Both would be a great addition to the game.

Hmmm... Maybe Forza can magic up a licensing agreement for new Maseratis just like they did for Stellantis?

To add to the licensing weirdness, Maserati lost these models in the bridge from FH4 to FH5

2014 Maserati Ghibli S
2004 Maserati MC12
1961 Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage
1957 Maserati 300S
1953 Maserati A6GCS/53 Pininfarina Berlinetta

And thats not including the 1997 Maserati Ghibli Cup from the Motorsport side, which has never featured in a Horizon game.

Definitely seems like a licensing thing. A shame cause I'd love to see the MC20, MC12 return and finally get a Quattroporte in a modern game.

 

[PJTierney]

I wonder if it's something like "we don't want to see our cars racing with traffic on the road." Motorfest does let you use the MC20 in the open world, with traffic, but from what I've seen so far, once you get in a race, traffic's cleared out, you don't ever see a single civvie. Thus, no chance of you ever getting in any simulated danger with a civilian when you're racing.

Forza can't guarantee that because Street Races always include traffic, unless it's in a Seasonal Championship or the game doesn't feel like spawning traffic in that particular instance--thus, Maserati specifically nopes out but no one else in Stellantis's line-up seems to care.

No, it’ll be something boring like a licensing fee, royalty costs or the possibility that it is coming somewhere, just not announced yet.

 

[GBalao888]

I’m fine with only natively S class muscle cars appearing in Track Toys. Which would mean the GTD or Shelby variants of the latest Mustang platform.

We already have plenty of fast Mustangs and Camaros in Track Toys after all, including the last gen Gt350 and GT500.


so yeah, it may be a shame for you but it’s good news for me, since I like racing fast Fords in modern muscle class but I always pick other stuff to race in Track Toys.

The Mustang GTD will likely either be in Hypercars or Extreme Track Toys.

 

[Digolgrin]

No, it’ll be something boring like a licensing fee, royalty costs or the possibility that it is coming somewhere, just not announced yet.

True, because that notion of 'we don't want to see cars racing in the middle of traffic' then begs the question, why don't we see the missing Maseratis in FM2023, where there is no chance of that happening? Or, for that matter, why didn't Maserati just skip this game entirely like the other Stellantis Italian brands did for the first year, justifying it with not wanting to be associated with illegal street racing?

If it's a business thing I bet it's on Maserati for maybe not budging on the sort of licensing agreement you'd need for a long-term live service like FH5 or FM2023--like, maybe they wanted to wait until FH4's agreement expired before agreeing to add anything to 5, and they just haven't budged on that despite 4 being in End-of-Life for years now.

 

[Turboteg90]

The Mustang GTD will likely either be in Hypercars or Extreme Track Toys.

 

[McLaren]

To add to the licensing weirdness, Maserati lost these models in the bridge from FH4 to FH5

2014 Maserati Ghibli S
2004 Maserati MC12
1961 Maserati Tipo 61 Birdcage
1957 Maserati 300S
1953 Maserati A6GCS/53 Pininfarina Berlinetta

And thats not including the 1997 Maserati Ghibli Cup from the Motorsport side, which has never featured in a Horizon game.

Definitely seems like a licensing thing. A shame cause I'd love to see the MC20, MC12 return and finally get a Quattroporte in a modern game.

It is very strange how the licensing (or whatever the reason actually is) has worked between both games. The MC12 missed out on FH5, but it's remained in the Motorsport series. But, FH5 was able to keep the Corsa version in. One might assume T10 would consider bringing the Corsa to FM2023 since its modeled & would be right at home, but it's a car they've never pursued.

I mean, I get they're different games with different teams & different negotiation requirements for the manufacturers. But, that recent Apex Allstars pack indicated (to me, anyway) that Playground Games has no problem acquiring the rights to a bunch of cars that were all completely new (bar the M8 GTE) to the franchise over all after making their debuts in FM2023. So, it'd be interesting to really learn the inside hurdles as to why PG & T10 don't really pursue licensing for cars each game has had modeled & secured more often.

 

[GBalao888]

View attachment 1366689

I'm just saying that as the Mustang GTD, even if it's likely far from being featured in the game anytime soon, would likely end up in the categories I mentioned. It's too fast for Modern Muscle, so if it were added some time in FH5, or potentially FH6, it would likely end up in either Hypercars or Extreme Track Toys.

 

[Digolgrin]

It is very strange how the licensing (or whatever the reason actually is) has worked between both games. The MC12 missed out on FH5, but it's remained in the Motorsport series. But, FH5 was able to keep the Corsa version in. One might assume T10 would consider bringing the Corsa to FM2023 since its modeled & would be right at home, but it's a car they've never pursued.

I mean, I get they're different games with different teams & different negotiation requirements for the manufacturers. But, that recent Apex Allstars pack indicated (to me, anyway) that Playground Games has no problem acquiring the rights to a bunch of cars that were all completely new (bar the M8 GTE) to the franchise over all after making their debuts in FM2023. So, it'd be interesting to really learn the inside hurdles as to why PG & T10 don't really pursue licensing for cars each game has had modeled & secured more often.

I think there is a clear difference between licensing a road car and licensing a racecar. Take the Apex Allstars pack and the Sierra Sierra in that Playlist for example, but especially the car pack. The Playlist obviously has the Hyundai Elantra TCR in there, so that's plausibly a buy-in slot, but the Apex Allstars pack, feels like you're most likely to get to talking with the IMSA and SCCA, moreso than the manufacturer themselves.

Of course the manufacturer will want to have its racecars in games, but then you have to get those series to agree to have their insignia and likeness in the game. That feels like the hard part there, but since none of them enjoy the same sorts exclusive license success as NASCAR or the WRC, they're probably easier to get agreement on.

 

[skazz]

The GTD website says "800hp targeted, <7mins Nurburgring targeted". So it's not actually released yet, and there's no way Ford would let FH5 have it.

With those figures it all depends on the downforce. I could see it in Track Toys though, since the Jaguar Project 8 did a 7:18 and that only comes in at S1:830.

 

[Mae Borowski]

If the GT2 RS is in Track Toys, the Mustang GTD will be as well

 

[McLaren]

I think there is a clear difference between licensing a road car and licensing a racecar. Take the Apex Allstars pack and the Sierra Sierra in that Playlist for example, but especially the car pack. The Playlist obviously has the Hyundai Elantra TCR in there, so that's plausibly a buy-in slot, but the Apex Allstars pack, feels like you're most likely to get to talking with the IMSA and SCCA, moreso than the manufacturer themselves.

Of course the manufacturer will want to have its racecars in games, but then you have to get those series to agree to have their insignia and likeness in the game. That feels like the hard part there, but since none of them enjoy the same sorts exclusive license success as NASCAR or the WRC, they're probably easier to get agreement on.

I can see that, but my curiosity extends beyond that as well such as with the MC12 & the Corsa. Or for example, the 512 S initially. FH4 introduced it, though for whatever reason, it took about 2 years for FH5 to bring it back during Series 28 according to the Forza Wiki. The DBR1 followed the same path; was there in FH4, was in FM2023 at launch, and returned to Horizon alongside the Ferrari a couple months later during the same series last Christmas. Another obscure one from that series was the Porsche 906. It didn't make the transition from FM7 to FM2023, but it did return to FH5 after being in FH4. Then you have some other oddities like the DB4 Zagato, 250LM, 500 Mondial, Commodore, the aforementioned Maseratis, & probably a few more that were in FH4 & FM2023, but have yet to come back to FH5. There's also a handful of cars that have re-debuted into Forza through FM2023 that haven't been back in the Horizon games since FH3.

It's just an observation, that's all whether it's licensing, creative direction, etc. I do think FH5's inclusion of new gems like the XJ220 TWR, RC F Track Edition, LC500, Sian, etc. have helped make it easier for FM2023 to bring them into its world. And maybe it worked the other way as well for the 512 S & DBR1 to be included in FM2023 & just a few months later, it opened the door for FH5 to bring them back as well. Whatever it may be, imo, it would be great if the two games were able to share their models more consistently & often.