Forza Motorsport 3

[myke6699]

Maybe not everyone knows but it´s the GTR/GTL developers that make Shift. So they could make quite a decent simulation if they wanted to. Already made racing games with better physics then Forza 2 lol. Now I don´t expect Shift to be a hardcore simulator. I mean their physics polling rate at 160 hz or what it was give it away just there and all these achievements unlocked labels is very GRID like. But they may succeed a lot better then PGR or GRID attempted. Something very playable/accessible and still quite realistic.
That is what I expect anyway.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out. 40 cars or what it was in Shift so they could fine tune them better then what Turn 10 have time for with their 400 cars so it´s not a given really which one will feel better

SHIFT's physics engine actually runs at 400 hz (cycle) which is higher than Forza 2 (360hz) and probably more in line with FM3. And unlike FM3, the grid is at 16 cars for both SP and MP.

Here's more from Ian Bell describing SHIFT's physics:

car physics: will each different car model have a dedicated physics file? How many car and physics file in NFS Shift?

IB: Yes, each car has its own unique physics file, plus there are unique files for suspension types, tire types, gearbox types, turbo/supercharger types, engine types, etc. There are more than 500 separate physics files in the game as of now, many with dynamically changing aspects. This huge collection of files allows our physics programmers to create a detailed and realistic simulation of all of the key defining factors in car behaviour and many of the more subtle details that are missed in nearly all racing games. This is the difference that makes a player say "this just feels right!" when playing SHIFT. For example, when the tyre sidewalls flex under load in a corner, it minutely changes the shape and location of the tyre's contact patch, which in turn changes how the tyre grips the tarmac as it strains to keep hold. Without details like this a driving game can still be fun, but it can feel sterile and dead. With SHIFT we're pushing the limits of physics processing on consoles, delivering a racing experience that is alive, gripping, visceral, and believable.

Sounds promising enough.
I was seriously going to Forza 3 but lack wheel support (I own a G25 and can't afford a Fanatec) and to top it all off, 8 car grid- I want visceral, dynamic, weaving thrrough my opponents kind of racing.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

That Nissan model makes me think that T10 used other game's models to make this one. It doesn't seem in-line with the other pictures.

 

[oqvist]

Forza 3 is also 360 hertz. GT 5 is what 120? But from what they say about 300 and upwards is where it start to matter about as much as 60 or 100 fps

is the tire deformation also modelled visually? DG did a big number on that on the E3 conference being first but Shift is scheduled for one month prior of Forza 3 lol

 

[Gabkicks]

forza's is modeled visually and so is DiRT's. I think NFS: Shift's will be visual as well.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Forza 3 is also 360 hertz. GT 5 is what 120? But from what they say about 300 and upwards is where it start to matter about as much as 60 or 100 fps

is the tire deformation also modelled visually? DG did a big number on that on the E3 conference being first but Shift is scheduled for one month prior of Forza 3 lol

Well at 300Hz physics calculations... at 300km/h that gives you 1 calculation every 28cm the car travels. So any bumps in the road shorter than that probably wont register or will register unrealistically.

 

[joe8]

👍

 

[oqvist]

Wonder what the designers thought... How do we beat BMW? Well we use 4 exhaust pipes lol

 

[Joey D]

Or "Hey lets out ugly Bangle".

 

[paskowitz]

This is the thing about FM3. It looks amazing... but it still looks like a game. This may sound strange but its the "air". Its almost like there is a small subtle film of haze over the image. That and the cars are too "reflective" (IMO). Cars just are not like that (with the exception of show cars that have been waxed for 10 hours).

Now this is really nitpicky but...
The side vent behind the front wheel of the ISF is off. The real car's vent curves in at the bottom and the vent is seamless with the body not tacked on.

EX:

 

[Joey D]

It looks like a game because maybe it is one? If you want real life go to a car show or dealership.

 

[paskowitz]

I am not looking for "real life" but there is just something about Forza. The color pallet, filters, something. While GT is far from perfect and in some areas does not look as good as FM3 it looks more like real life.

 

[Gabkicks]

it would be nice if the cars were as accurate as possible. People can point out possible flaws in car models.

 

[drivatar]

SHIFT's physics engine actually runs at 400 hz (cycle) which is higher than Forza 2 (360hz) and probably more in line with FM3.

Not anymore:

render thread's running at 30 frames. Whereas the physics and AI threads are running at a full 120hz

http://games.kikizo.com/features/need-for-speed-shift-huge-interview-p3.asp

I don't need 400Hz Physics if I only get 30fps. A sim needs 60fps and no blur.

 

[myke6699]

Not anymore:

http://games.kikizo.com/features/need-for-speed-shift-huge-interview-p3.asp

I don't need 400Hz Physics if I only get 30fps. A sim needs 60fps and no blur.

I think your info is outdated- it's from May 7th. And Jesse Abney is EA's producer while Ian Bell is in charge of Slightly Mad Studios, the people developing the game's engine. Here's the more recent interview with Ian Bell in which he mentioned the 400 hz physics engine.

As to the 30 fps, if you get the PC version, the FPS is limited by what your GFX card is capable of. As to the blur- try downloading the recent video at Gamersyde- you'll see that it's only in the peripheral view do you get any kind of blur and it's not as apparent as some might think. As to whether it's a sim or not- If it drives like a car, the blur will just be an enhancement. Well, at least there's a decent size grid to race against.

 

[McLaren]

To help bring some news, new info. courtesy of our good friend at FC.

Here are 4 new screenshots from Forza Motorsport 3 as well as a new video showing some highlights from Forza 3's E3 presence.
Enjoy8)

New Screenshots:



Video: Turn10 @ E3
http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/media/videos/default.htm#/video/781/

 

[WolfRacer543]

it would be nice if the cars were as accurate as possible. People can point out possible flaws in car models.

Personally I dont really care about small errors in the car models, but I'm the sort of person who spends a lot of time racing and very little time watching replays. I'd rather have the game sooner rather than waiting while the developers spend forever perfecting every tiny little curve on every single car. As long as it looks like the car its supposed to be, its more about how it drives than how it looks.

 

[oqvist]

Personally I dont really care about small errors in the car models, but I'm the sort of person who spends a lot of time racing and very little time watching replays. I'd rather have the game sooner rather than waiting while the developers spend forever perfecting every tiny little curve on every single car. As long as it looks like the car its supposed to be, its more about how it drives than how it looks.

x2... That is exactly what I fear polyphony is doing going from the GT 5 Prologue.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

^So you will not care if all cars look the same but with different stats? Hey, it's all about the way it is played. Heck, you probably wouldn't mind racing a box with an engine of a Viper right? As long as it acts like a viper, it can look like dot for all you care?

I know I am taking this far, but please, it is fine if you don't care, but don't make working till it is the way it is suppsed to be sound bad. While my point was a little on the far-fetch side, I think it is a valid point here. In a game like this, small errors really don't matter much, but they are small errors - thinks that are easy to fix if the developer gives a damn about them.

 

[WolfRacer543]

^So you will not care if all cars look the same but with different stats? Hey, it's all about the way it is played. Heck, you probably wouldn't mind racing a box with an engine of a Viper right? As long as it acts like a viper, it can look like dot for all you care?

I know I am taking this far, but please, it is fine if you don't care, but don't make working till it is the way it is suppsed to be sound bad. While my point was a little on the far-fetch side, I think it is a valid point here. In a game like this, small errors really don't matter much, but they are small errors - thinks that are easy to fix if the developer gives a damn about them.

I said "As long as it looks like the car its supposed to be, its more about how it drives than how it looks."

People are nitpicking over things like bits of trim not quite matching up or driving lights that are only noticably different if you look at them 3 times. If it looks like a viper and it drives like a viper, I dont really care if they placed the vents 1" too far back or the steering wheel is 1" thick instead of 1.25" thick.

To me the FM3 models look awesome, sure, you might notice a curve here or there is slightly off on a particular car when viewed from a certain angle, but I'm happier they are releasing it instead of fretting over the models trying to get them 100% perfect when at the end of the day eventually a new game will come out on the next generation of PC/consoles that will look many times better either way... I just wanna drive it while I still can

Its not a case of the devs "not giving a damn", its about them having realistic deadlines for finishing things and getting it into the sweaty hands of us gamers. There's always things that could be done better, we'll never have a perfect game, simply a game that is better or worse than the previous.

 

[paskowitz]

I said "As long as it looks like the car its supposed to be, its more about how it drives than how it looks."

People are nitpicking over things like bits of trim not quite matching up or driving lights that are only noticably different if you look at them 3 times. If it looks like a viper and it drives like a viper, I dont really care if they placed the vents 1" too far back or the steering wheel is 1" thick instead of 1.25" thick.

To me the FM3 models look awesome, sure, you might notice a curve here or there is slightly off on a particular car when viewed from a certain angle, but I'm happier they are releasing it instead of fretting over the models trying to get them 100% perfect when at the end of the day eventually a new game will come out on the next generation of PC/consoles that will look many times better either way... I just wanna drive it while I still can

Its not a case of the devs "not giving a damn", its about them having realistic deadlines for finishing things and getting it into the sweaty hands of us gamers. There's always things that could be done better, we'll never have a perfect game, simply a game that is better or worse than the previous.

Your point is valid. In truth those tiny details don't really matter all that much but it does make a small difference. Also that extreme attention to detail is the Japanese way. Its just how they naturally work. Its like writing an A+ paper and getting a 97 (FM3) and writing an A+ paper and getting a 99 (GT5). Both are still A+ grade work.

 

[WolfRacer543]

Its like writing an A+ paper and getting a 97 (FM3) and writing an A+ paper and getting a 99 (GT5). Both are still A+ grade work.

Yeah, and just like real life, getting a 99 takes twice the time compared to a getting a 97

 

[Biggles]

Its not a case of the devs "not giving a damn", its about them having realistic deadlines for finishing things and getting it into the sweaty hands of us gamers. There's always things that could be done better, we'll never have a perfect game, simply a game that is better or worse than the previous.

This is exactly the point. I'm not sure exactly what PD are up to, but there's a fair chance they are trying to "perfect" their creation. However, nothing will ever be "perfect" - there will always be room for improvement.

In this day of DLC, it would seem to me that the rational thing to do would be to release a smaller game & then add additional content with time. That way gamers get their "sweaty hands" on the game earlier + the developers get to add to & improve the game over time, as well as make more money. That seems like a reasonable approach to me. However, at the same time, I do respect PD's "Japanese" business ethic & if PD does eventually put out the mother of all racing sims, we will all admire their patience & commitment to quality. 👍

 

[Alex.]

Just sent my xbox to be repaired purely for this game. can't wait for the first time start playing xbox on my 22" 1080p monitor / TV

 

[oqvist]

^So you will not care if all cars look the same but with different stats? Hey, it's all about the way it is played. Heck, you probably wouldn't mind racing a box with an engine of a Viper right? As long as it acts like a viper, it can look like dot for all you care?

I know I am taking this far, but please, it is fine if you don't care, but don't make working till it is the way it is suppsed to be sound bad. While my point was a little on the far-fetch side, I think it is a valid point here. In a game like this, small errors really don't matter much, but they are small errors - thinks that are easy to fix if the developer gives a damn about them.

They are not that easy to fix if you have a deadline to match... Until we have 30 cars on track, dynamic weather, dynamic day/night cycles, entire seasons, online driver changes, ensuring solid framerates and what not bigger issues it´s wasted time fixing these small faults that only 0.1 % of the gamers will ever notice. If there is time over surely but it should be absolute last on the list. Since as you see on the picture the car models aren´t bad. If they fix that people will just find something else that "doesn´t look right"
Car modelling is really time consuming actually it´s not time efficient to work to much on them.

That is why I am afraid PD is spending to much with the visuals since I am going to race the cars not look at the cars racing. Even though it of course has some features Forza 3 lacks if rumours is right . As mentioned nothing will ever be perfect. Car models the very least and it´s how it should be

 

[myke6699]

I know neither of the top pics are actual gameplay shots but clearly from the game's engine. The one with headlights are from actual GT5P game. Just t show the level of details in GT5P versus that of Forza. I'm not trying to point the weakness in Forza but clearly, it's aesthetic choice on the part of KY and his team at PD, hence the time that's taking them to produce the result. As to whether one appreciates the details is as personal as the choice PD took in producing them. While Forza 3 might have the upperhand in the gameplay department, but there are just as many car fetish freaks as there are gamers.

 

[Brend]

GT5 pwns forza in graphics department.

 

[amar212]

I really do not want to troll a second - because I like Forza series very much since Forza 2 (first Forza was a 1/1 disaster in my book, however that's just me) - but it goes SO MUCH BEYOND HEADLIGHTS in graphic department solely that it is pure offence just to discuss about it.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Thats not trolling.
I mean, look at the track textures....

The improvement over FM2 is huge though, but it wouldve been a disappointment other wise.

 

[Northstar]

Who plays games for graphics?

 

[G.T.Ace]

No one, but theyre an essential part especially in racing games.
And also, whats wrong in comparing 2 games in the same genre, after the devs stated its the best looking racing game this console generation.