Forza Motorsport 4 Review: How about a little comparison?

[KreepaEvox]

That's cool and all but, we don't drive shaders.

To me, GT5 has been a bore-fest. I tried so many times to play the game for an extended amount of time like I do with Forza but I just can't bring myself to do it. And it's not the fact Forza 4 is new, because I was still playing FM3 the day I got FM4.

I always say this but, FOR ME, Gran Turismo died after GT2, because, if you look at it, you are still playing the same game, with prettier graphics but with less racing features and even worse sounds( on most cars), how's that even possible? And then that God awful car list and even ghastlier DLC cars at the moment.

Let me define my review with this...

Today, I spent two hours of my time beating ONE ghost in the top gear track to get 100,000 credits of fake money. Fun wins

 

[dzidza]

Standards have better reflections? I'm not seeing it myself. Your post is heavily biased too, you completely failed to mention the fact that around 80% of the cars in GT5 are low resolution without interior modelling. That's a HUGE factor in the graphics department IMO and if you're going to disagree with someone just because the premium cockpits look good, you can't just disregard a huge portion of the game!

As I said that is my opinion, and to be honest i like standards, and I like it's cockpit view, even if it's black. To me graphics isn't that important. HUGE factor for you isn't a factor AT ALL for me :-), thats why it's my opinion, not a fact or whatever else, and I can understand why you or somebody else prefer F4 over GT5 and I respect you opinion.

 

[dzidza]

That's cool and all but, we don't drive shaders.

To me, GT5 has been a bore-fest. I tried so many times to play the game for an extended amount of time like I do with Forza but I just can't bring myself to do it. And it's not the fact Forza 4 is new, because I was still playing FM3 the day I got FM4.

I always say this but, FOR ME, Gran Turismo died after GT2, because, if you look at it, you are still playing the same game, with prettier graphics but with less racing features and even worse sounds( on most cars), how's that even possible? And then that God awful car list and even ghastlier DLC cars at the moment.

Let me define my review with this...

Today, I spent two hours of my time beating ONE ghost in the top gear track to get 100,000 credits of fake money. Fun wins

Sorry for the double post, forgot to click multi quote :-(

Yes we don't drive shaders, and I agree with you, it's a personal tast, but we do drive games that want to portray them selfs as sims, and with assisted steering in F4/F3, it kills a fun factor for me, cause the game treats me as an incompetent player (when using a wheel), it kills the challenge.

I didn't play GT2, i started from GT4, and only played it briefly, but I did play F2/F3 and waiting for the F4.

Sounds in GT5 sound really good on my setup, and as F4 sounds.
I love every one of the DLC cars.

 

[Bogie 19th]

What tires were you using? Stock?

Yes.

Nice review OP, but I disagree in few things.

I tried F4 yesterday at my friends place (@Amar212), since my copy didn't arrive yet,and where i disagree mainly is physics. F4 physics (played with the wheel GT2 Fanatec) is not even comparable to gt5. WHY, because, instead of battling the car, I found myself battling the game's wheel assists (even on simulation), and this is the main problem with F4. Physics can't be judged when it's heavily assisted with assists (using the wheel). I truly hope that T10 will update this and then we can compare it properly, cause I am certainly sure that physics will be much better and much more sim like then what it's right now.

Graphics wise, GT5 still beats F4 by a mile, even standard cars have better reflection. Premiums in GT5, in cockpit view, have much better shaders, and all materials look more to life then in F4,. This is while driving a car, not in menus. I don't care about track looks, 3d trees, 3d spectators etc, or that some tracks are wider the their real life counterpart. I won't even compare the weather, night etc. cause that to me is a nice additions to GT5, and some day in Forza series.

First thing that I noticed is the low fps in mirrors, and they get lower if you spin (on purpose), and for someone using cockpit cam, it can be frustrated.

When there are more cars on track F4's IBL is almost nowhere to be seen. Autovista cars look really nice, but there are lots of jaggies, so 1m polyies isn't needed at all. Wheel rims look plastic, as is they aren't affected by IBL, except chrome wheel.

There are also lots of things I like in F4, Rivals mode, this is something that is really addictive and really nicely executed. I liked the world tour, but would prefer even harder AI. I like the car selection, from BMW to muscle cars. Forza series made me love the look of old american cars, and i appreciate them even more.

I was playing F4 without any assists, steering on simulation.

All of this is my personal opinion. I am not a gt5 fan, or F4. I am a fan of driving games (rfactor - more then several years in league racing, GTR, GTR2 etc.) and both GT5 and F4 gives me something that previously mentioned games don't.

I really hope that T10 will start making F5 from scratch, and build it around wheel not controller, even if it takes them 5 years.

And yes, i am really looking forward to playing F4, enjoying F4, and competing in F4 with you guys.

I see someone got a different copy of the game.

 

[artboy76]

As I said that is my opinion, and to be honest i like standards, and I like it's cockpit view, even if it's black. To me graphics isn't that important. HUGE factor for you isn't a factor AT ALL for me :-), thats why it's my opinion, not a fact or whatever else, and I can understand why you or somebody else prefer F4 over GT5 and I respect you opinion.

Utter rubbish!!! Thats like saying your not bothered if a woman looks like a harpooned whale, just so long as she has a nice personality!!! Its a lie!!!

Face it, graphics are important, this is 2011......funny how GT5 fans brag about the 20% perfect cars....but once you mention the 80% cardboard cut out ones with joke interior they start going on about graphics playing no importance!

 

[dzidza]

Utter rubbish!!! Thats like saying your not bothered if a woman looks like a harpooned whale, just so long as she has a nice personality!!! Its a lie!!! I am a musician also, and I could care less how my female singer is looking, as long as she sings great. So being a smart ... as you think you are, proves nothing else then you are in fact a fanboy

Face it, graphics are important, this is 2011......funny how GT5 fans brag about the 20% perfect cars....but once you mention the 80% cardboard cut out ones with joke interior they start going on about graphics playing no importance!

I am sorry but your wrong, I like rfactor a lot, but graphically it can't be compared to F4 nor GT5. Then again look at LFS, it looks like crap from 2003, and yet it's a great game, and cars look like 🤬.

I don't understand why you're forcing me to adopt you opinion. If i was a GT5 fan as you imply me, i would never bought x360 only for Forza series and bought Fanatec Turbo S and CSP, only that i can play Forza on x360, and will buy CSR Elite just so I can enjoy Forza series even more. Mind you I only buy LCE editions of Forza series, but never bought GT5 collectors nor Signature edition.

Yes.



I see someone got a different copy of the game.

If you read my post, you'll see that I only played it at my friends place, and that I am waiting for my copy.

 

[Crispy]

I kinda found the reason why I think GT5 looks more realistic when it's running at normal standards. (What Forza does all the time)

In GT5, it seems that the older cars (Miata NA, Ford Mustang Mach 1, Lamborghini Muira, etc.) actually look dated, and that they came from an earlier time, just kept in their original condition and shined up a little.

For Forza I get the feeling that I'm looking at a car that just came from the dealership, even if the car itself is 40 or so years old. I think some people may call it the gritty feeling?

Think about it, if GT5 had a Foxbody Mustang (Really should) then it would look more like your next door neighbor's car which he's bringing to a car show. You can tell it's old, but it looks new. Forza looks like the car you saw 15 years ago on the showroom floor.

It could also be that Forza doesn't really bring out Metallic Flakes, or Matte paint jobs as well as GT5. If a car had a more flat paint job new, you can tell that in GT5, while as Forza, it looks glossed.

Another thing I forgot to add was the Mirrors in Forza. It all seems weird how one race you'll have 60 FPS mirrors, then the next race you'll have 30 FPS ones. I don't think I've ever noticed Frame Rate Drop since I used to play Fallout 3! Still, it's better then having the same race slow down! *cough*GT5*cough*

No matter what, Forza LOOKS better, maybe not as realistic, but it's nicer to look at. That's one reason why we look at paintings, the majority of them don't really look realistic, that's why we enjoy them. They look like something that we won't see everyday, even if it is everyday objects. That's why Fallout 3 catches my eye, it may be outdated, but it looks intensely awesome! GT5 kinda looks boring to look at sometimes. Forza, well I stare at it for hours!

 

[Bogie 19th]

If you read my post, you'll see that I only played it at my friends place, and that I am waiting for my copy.

Oh good! Then you will probably get the same copy as the rest of us

 

[dzidza]

Oh good! Then you will probably get the same copy as the rest of us

Hopefully , i am going nuts over here.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Nice review OP, but I disagree in few things.

WHY, because, instead of battling the car, I found myself battling the game's wheel assists (even on simulation),

Graphics wise, GT5 still beats F4 by a mile, even standard cars have better reflection.

First thing that I noticed is the low fps in mirrors, and they get lower if you spin (on purpose), and for someone using cockpit cam, it can be frustrated.

The games wheel assist is hardly noticable unless you are trying to find it and running at 900 degrees. If you run at say 360, or 720....

Not only that but T10 are aware of that issue.

To me graphics isn't that important.

Hmm, yet you notice a drop in FPS in mirrors? And talk about Grphics of GT5 are way better in GT5? If it doesnt matter, why did you talk about them?

Sounds in GT5 sound really good on my setup, and as F4 sounds.
I

You lost me here. Sounds in GT5 are bad period.

Are you saying GT5 sounds as good as FM4? I dont get this. You dont have the game yet, but GT5 sounds really good on your setup and as FM4? But how did you hear FM4 on your setup?

If you read my post, you'll see that I only played it at my friends place, and that I am waiting for my copy.

 

[dzidza]

The games wheel assist is hardly noticable unless you are trying to find it and running at 900 degrees. If you run at say 360, or 720....

Not only that but T10 are aware of that issue.

I know they are aware of the issue, and i hope for an update, cause i don't what to drive at 360 or 270 degrees, cause i can not be percise through corners and have very small inputs. We tried 900, 720, 540 degrees and assists are present to a point where I am trying to fight the wheel not the car. It's hard to explain



Hmm, yet you notice a drop in FPS in mirrors? And talk about Graphics of GT5 are way better in GT5? If it doesnt matter, why did you talk about them?

I had to talk just for graphics sake in my review, but it's the first thing I noticed while playing (at friend place), but that thing won't bother me, all dough it's noticeable.



You lost me here. Sounds in GT5 are bad period.

Are you saying GT5 sounds as good as FM4? I dont get this. You dont have the game yet, but GT5 sounds really good on your setup and as FM4? But how did you hear FM4 on your setup?
My mistake, I meant F4 demo. I don't think the sound in final game will be dramatically changed. Having a great 5.1 headset (with optical input), there is an ability to enhance sounds thats coming from the rear speakers, thous making cockpit sound same as in 3rd person

Nontheless, I feel Forza 4 is a big step forward compared to Forza 3 in graphics department.

There are lots of things that I do like in F4 over GT5 such as Rival mode, a lot more customization options, upgrades, livery editor (although I am terrible at that) more online options, UI.... I still have to play my F4 game, and spend more time with it.

 

[artboy76]

Well I was home alone last night and had a proper session with FM4, single player and online, had a blast and its a fantastic game. I was wondering why though when i first played FM4 i felt a bit deflated.

Well the jump from FM2 to FM3 was MASSIVE! especially as i cant stand playing driving games without the interior view.
So yeah FM3 was just a stunning improvement in i'd say everyway over FM2.

But FM3 to FM4 not THAT much has changed...... but like i say its fantastic and a wonderful game and last night was just total joy, and FM4 moved foward, just not as much as FM3 did compared to FM2....

But also having said all of that, i made me realise why my PS3 is used as a blueray player and GT5 sits in its case............... cause 80% of GT5 went BACKWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wolfe]

FM3 was just a stunning improvement in i'd say everyway over FM2.

But FM3 to FM4 not THAT much has changed...... but like i say its fantastic and a wonderful game and last night was just total joy, and FM4 moved foward, just not as much as FM3 did compared to FM2....

In my opinion, FM4 is everything FM3 should have been. I'm not happy with my purchase of FM3; the singleplayer mode was a complete bore (I don't typically maintain a Gold membership on my Xbox profile), and the physics were super-grippy and vague. Some of my favorite cars were flawed carryover models from FM2 (the E30's brake lights are fixed in FM4!), and the track list was rather uninspiring (though that hasn't changed much).

In terms of physics, I don't think they changed much, mostly just swapping the new tire model in. That's okay, because it feels great. Not perfect, but very fun.

Any chance you could elaborate on "the game still assist you either way"? I've been using sim steering to this point, and haven't felt as though the game has been assisting me. But if it is, even slightly, I'd like to know when and where, just so I'm more aware of what's going on (or to perhaps take advantage of it if an opportunity presents itself )

As FD3S said, if you're using a controller the game will always have to "filter" your input before sending it to the car. What I've found is that simulation steering doesn't really add much to the "simulation" value of the game. It just changes the way the game predicts what you want to do.

That being said, I do agree with you that there are some quirky characteristics to oversteering. I haven't really spent any time trying to do some serious drifting yet, but I have a feeling that the learning curve, or rather transition from GT5 curve, may be quite steep

The primary reason I've opted to try normal steering is that simulation steering introduces unnecessary overcorrection issues in certain cars. It cuts into countersteer too fast and too hard. I admit, looking at the steering wheel in the interior view, I've noticed some minor auto-corrections now and then that felt like cheating...

...but consider this -- in the driving aids icons accompanying Rivals mode laptimes, I haven't noticed any "simulation/normal steering" tag. If Turn10 doesn't think it's a crutch worth flagging, maybe we shouldn't be so averse to trying "normal."

 

[cuco33]

Sounds in GT5 sound OK and I have a pretty decent setup. That are nothing to brag about. Some cars sound great, most sound like vacuum cleaners or blenders on the verge of dieing. The same thud heard during bumps with a Kart or a Dodge Hemi quadcab pick up truch. That said... the sounds in Forza 4 sound phenomenal. All cars I've tried so far sound like the real thing. The sound in FM4 is just on another level of GT5.

 

[zr1chris]

Well the jump from FM2 to FM3 was MASSIVE!

But FM3 to FM4 not THAT much has changed......

I feel the exact opposite.

 

[Moglet]

HUGE factor for you isn't a factor AT ALL for me :-)

It didn't seem like that in your original post. If graphics aren't a factor for you then why even mention the reflections? Not trying to nit pick, I'm just curious is all as IMO both are stunning looking games in their own ways.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I feel the exact opposite.

For me, the biggest jump for FM1 > FM2 > FM3 > FM4 is the 3 to 4 jump.

 

[dzidza]

It didn't seem like that in your original post. If graphics aren't a factor for you then why even mention the reflections? Not trying to nit pick, I'm just curious is all as IMO both are stunning looking games in their own ways.

Yes they are, and thats why I play both series. They all have pros and cons.

 

[buickgnx88]

I was just looking at the event list in Forza 4 while playing last night, and said to myself "man there's a ton of events to do!" I mean it seems like I've been playing a lot, but have only maybe a tenth of the total events complete. This is how a game should be, plenty to do while not making you grind over and over, like GT5. Granted like GT5, they overuse certain tracks/track layouts, but I can live with it. However for Forza, the offline races are only a portion of the total game, which makes Forza the better overall experience.

The other thing that's nice is having a bunch of credits, since you feel like you're accomplishing something. In GT5 and FM3 it felt like you were starving for credits (at least FM3 had credits for difficulty), of course I guess with FM4 giving you prize cars and free parts you don't have to spend as much.

As far as how they set up the prizes in 4, I wish that they would have stretched out the rate that you get part discounts a little bit, maybe making it so at level 10 you get 100 percent. Also the cars you're given, I wish they would have maybe staggered them a bit, so you'd get a car for level 1, then money for level 2, then a car again for 3, and so on. But hey, I do like how they did the difficulty settings where certain settings will net you more money and you can choose how you want to race as well as how much you want to win extra. It is nice getting double your prize money!

 

[zr1chris]

For me, the biggest jump for FM1 > FM2 > FM3 > FM4 is the 3 to 4 jump.

I can't really comment on the FM1 to FM2 jump since I didn't have the original xbox (and therefore didn't have FM1) but I would have thought that would have been an even bigger jump since the entire console was upgraded.

 

[t.o.]

I can't really comment on the FM1 to FM2 jump since I didn't have the original xbox (and therefore didn't have FM1) but I would have thought that would have been an even bigger jump since the entire console was upgraded.

To me each iteration of this game has felt like a bit jump over the last. At no point in this series I felt as if I just paid full price for a roster update.

 

[KreepaEvox]

The series always keeps evolving at a nice pace with good balance, is not like they do 3 nice features and then try to bring the game close to those features....I'm looking at you GT5. And then there's the dlc, that Speed Pack alone brings a balanced 10 car roster to the game: a racing prototype, a hyper car, a boutique exotic, a hot hatch, a classic, a mid size truck/suv...etc.... All completely modifiable. The competition factor withstanding, we are bound to get a track dlc

 

[UKMikey]

Thought I'd put in some reactions from someone who's a complete newconer to F4 and GT5 and has avoided the hypestorm surrounding both games.

A mate of mine came round the other day and I gave him FM4 to play for a few laps. He was enthralled by the audio and the sun peeking over the mountains etc. Unfortunately he only has a PS3 so I lent him Spec 2.0 to try out for me since I won't be playing it any time soon.

Strangely enough he said he finds the GT5 handling rather staid and tame compared to the snapbacks and fishtailing of Forza's Simulation steering mode but has concluded unsurprisingly that both games excel in different areas. He still misses those throaty V8 roars he heard in my game, though.

 

[HBK]

To me each iteration of this game has felt like a bit jump over the last. At no point in this series I felt as if I just paid full price for a roster update.

This.

Still, I can't help but feel that FM4 is an highly "polished" version of FM3 (maybe "evolved" would be a better word).

But hey, an evolution of an awesome game is still an awesome game, especially when the competition fails to deliver.

 

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Forza 4 has raised the bar pretty high. I never thought I would be sinking this kind of money in a "game"! - Fanatec, triple-screen, ... but it's worthy of my investment. Not perfect but if it was they would'nt be able to sell a FM 5
The career is huge but even if it wasn't how in the hell can it be completed with Rivals and leaderboards to contend with. This is one area that EA hit the nail on the head (AutoLog) and T10 was smart to follow suit.

 

[dougdoberman]

The games wheel assist is hardly noticable unless you are trying to find it and running at 900 degrees. If you run at say 360, or 720....

Why would you be playing with a wheel and NOT have it set to 900 degrees?

I'd think that for most players, and particularly for those who shell out for an expensive controller setup, the goal is as much realism as is possible. Running 270 degrees wheel rotation on most of these cars would throw that right out the window.

 

[imported_ScareCrow]

Why would you be playing with a wheel and NOT have it set to 900 degrees?

Because some people don't like it. It's all about preference. I remember Shawn from ISR mentioning in a video that his favorite wheel sensitivity setting is something like 520 degrees, and that he tries to apply it to most racing games.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Why would you be playing with a wheel and NOT have it set to 900 degrees?

I'd think that for most players, and particularly for those who shell out for an expensive controller setup, the goal is as much realism as is possible. Running 270 degrees wheel rotation on most of these cars would throw that right out the window.

Because some people don't like it. It's all about preference. I remember Shawn from ISR mentioning in a video that his favorite wheel sensitivity setting is something like 520 degrees, and that he tries to apply it to most racing games.

Yeah, I run 360 - 720. And if you are talking realism, a GT1 car does not have 900 degree rotation. So, again, depends on what you like to use.

 

[dzidza]

Yeah, I run 360 - 720. And if you are talking realism, a GT1 car does not have 900 degree rotation. So, again, depends on what you like to use.

Of course it doesn't, but it's not that hard to implement. If you put, in GT5 rotation degrees to off, than whatever degrees the car is using, it's set on your wheel e.g. if a gt1 uses 270, then wheel uses 270 (at least on Fanatec wheels), yes you can rotate wheel beyond 270 degrees, but there isn't anything happening in the game. Atleast I have this feeling, but I might be wrong.

 

[imported_SuperCobraJet]

This.

Still, I can't help but feel that FM4 is an highly "polished" version of FM3 (maybe "evolved" would be a better word).

But hey, an evolution of an awesome game is still an awesome game, especially when the competition fails to deliver.

This is my impression also.

More of a FM3.5, than FM4.