Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[AttackDickie]

Sounds like clean racing in MP will be great for faster players but not so much for us slower players. As your safety rating is the biggest factor in deciding which races you'll take part in. But I'm gonna get bored if I never have a chance of winning a race or competing for a podium place. Hopefully, spec races keep things a little closer at least.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I doubt the meme names made it into the game. I suspect it was a third party video editor finding the first thing on google.

Corner of Death is iconic though, I caused some massive pileups there.

If the new physics are a bit more planted then the corner of death is going to be wild.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Sounds like clean racing in MP will be great for faster players but not so much for us slower players. As your safety rating is the biggest factor in deciding which races you'll take part in. But I'm gonna get bored if I never have a chance of winning a race or competing for a podium place. Hopefully, spec races keep things a little closer at least.

Makes me wonder why they don’t just stonewall copy iRacing with this to be honest.

 

[UKMikey]

Could be, but they'd need wildly different lap times for that to track - across most of the competition in that race. I still smell a rat...

Without a replay it's impossible to tell but I think how well the bots take corners is dependent on whether any others are hogging the racing line at that point. Having a clear run on some laps but not others could cause the discrepancies.

 

[Stang616]

The new footage looks good, I do have a question about the AI though. They've gone to great lengths to say, no rubber banding, no tricks, no shenanigans when it comes to the AI.

However, in the first race in the Civic, the car that finishes in P2 has a fastest lap 1 second quicker than the player...if there's no rubber banding (and I don't recall seeing them make a mistake and spin off) what gives?

I appreciate it's a preview build and the game isn't final, but this looks suspiciously like rubber banding...View attachment 1287098

There have been many times I have had a faster lap time than the lead AI and still lost the race. It does happen and it's indicative of rubber banding. Consistency goes a long way over fast laps.

 

[slthree]

Without a replay it's impossible to tell but I think how well the bots take corners is dependent on whether any others are hogging the racing line at that point. Having a clear run on some laps but not others could cause the discrepancies.

It seems like you may have something here. My memory isn't as good as it used to be but I recall one of the forza monthly episodes where Chris was explaining how in the older games the AI basically had three lines it could take but in Motorsport they created 19 different lines the AI could use.

That's remarkable and not enough people are talking about it.

Of course, I could be remembering it incorrectly but for some reason that stuck with me.

 

[UKMikey]

It seems like you may have something here. My memory isn't as good as it used to be but I recall one of the forza monthly episodes where Chris was explaining how in the older games the AI basically had three lines it could take but in Motorsport they created 19 different lines the AI could use.

That's remarkable and not enough people are talking about it.

Of course, I could be remembering it incorrectly but for some reason that stuck with me.

I guess these guys are programmed to take full advantage of the track limits but some lines are slower than others. Maybe their intention is to force bots to take slower lines the further down the AI difficulty slider you go?

 

[FordGTGuy]

The new footage looks good, I do have a question about the AI though. They've gone to great lengths to say, no rubber banding, no tricks, no shenanigans when it comes to the AI.

However, in the first race in the Civic, the car that finishes in P2 has a fastest lap 1 second quicker than the player...if there's no rubber banding (and I don't recall seeing them make a mistake and spin off) what gives?

I appreciate it's a preview build and the game isn't final, but this looks suspiciously like rubber banding...View attachment 1287098

Possible that the AI got held back in the first couple laps and then ran a really fast lap on the last lap.

I've lost races where I have set the fastest lap, I'm sure all of us have.

AI will make mistakes too, AI could have been ahead of the player and then gone off track after a few laps.

 

[AttackDickie]

It seems like you may have something here. My memory isn't as good as it used to be but I recall one of the forza monthly episodes where Chris was explaining how in the older games the AI basically had three lines it could take but in Motorsport they created 19 different lines the AI could use.

That's remarkable and not enough people are talking about it.

Of course, I could be remembering it incorrectly but for some reason that stuck with me.

Yeah, I remember that. But Dan has also said the AI on the build YouTubers have are blind 😬 The main thing for me though is, I hope we're not bumping the difficulty up or down depending on the track.

 

[UKMikey]

Yeah, I remember that. But Dan has also said the AI on the build YouTubers have are blind 😬 The main thing for me though is, I hope we're not bumping the difficulty up or down depending on the track.

Being blind isn't a great excuse, they have access to a co-driver and proximity beeps in this game...

 

[Stupornaut]

Having the fastest individual lap time but still not finishing first is an experience I've had all the time playing in multiplayer, usually because I wind up making a minor but costly screwup or two, so I don't see anything inherently suspicious in an AI doing that (especially an AI that might be set at a lower difficulty). I believe Esaki et al have mentioned that the lower-skilled AI do screw up in a lot of the same ways players do, taking wide turns or missing braking points or things like that, so it seems to scan.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Could be, but they'd need wildly different lap times for that to track - across most of the competition in that race. I still smell a rat...

Having the fastest lap doesn't mean you're always that consistent. Players can get fastest lap and still lose - and they do, all the time.

From the footage I've seen through multiple YouTubers that played so far, there are myriad reasons why a particular car could have gotten fastest lap and still lose; going off-track in parts where there seemed to be no reason to, car pile-ups, starting from too far back in the grid to take the win in 3-4 laps, or simply less clean/more inconsistent racing than the player. As others pointed out, the AI is not finalized yet, and that can contribute, but fastest lap worries are a nothing-burger. This isn't indicative of anything on its own.

Sounds like clean racing in MP will be great for faster players but not so much for us slower players. As your safety rating is the biggest factor in deciding which races you'll take part in. But I'm gonna get bored if I never have a chance of winning a race or competing for a podium place. Hopefully, spec races keep things a little closer at least.

Not necessarily true. If FRR does its job correctly, your safety rating should depend on the penalties you received, and existing footage shows it's possible to make plenty of honest mistakes and not receive a penalty for it.

 

[AttackDickie]

Not necessarily true. If FRR does its job correctly, your safety rating should depend on the penalties you received, and existing footage shows it's possible to make plenty of honest mistakes and not receive a penalty for it.

No what I mean is, I thought your skill rating and safety rating would be used to place you into races with similar players but it's mainly going to be your safety rating that is the deciding factor. As when the interviewer said he avoids MP due to his skill level, Dan didn't even try to hide that you will be up against faster players but if you drive clean, at least you'll be up against fast-clean players.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Dear Forza Motorsport, after the huge disappointment that Starfield is for me, this is your chance to retake the true flagship title as a Microsoft Studios game!

 

[UKMikey]

Dear Forza Motorsport, after the huge disappointment that Starfield is for me, this is your chance to retake the true flagship title as a Microsoft Studios game!

Let's hope this game doesn't have a loading screen every couple of laps...

 

[PJTierney]

One thing I am hoping we see with this improved AI is improved PI calculation.

Historically, PI has been a representative number of a laptime an AI driver can get around a hypothetical track.

The gaps in the AI drivers’ skill (such as being unable to handle excess wheelspin) lead to certain builds or cars having far fewer PI than expected, thus making those cars “OP”.

My hope is that when two cars have the same PI, they truly have the same laptime potential. If that is the case, league organisers won’t need to do manual (subjective) performance balancing, and general players don’t need to worry so much about “meta cars”.

 

[m355y]

Dunno what to say about this other than it looks really, really good to me. I'm not seeing any red flags at all. The changes they've made to the career mode, the more planted, grippier handling - this is all music to my ears because everything they're altering are the things I didn't like about FM7! This and EA WRC coming out within weeks of each other is fantastic.

 

[SU_Tempest]

No what I mean is, I thought your skill rating and safety rating would be used to place you into races with similar players but it's mainly going to be your safety rating that is the deciding factor. As when the interviewer said he avoids MP due to his skill level, Dan didn't even try to hide that you will be up against faster players but if you drive clean, at least you'll be up against fast-clean players.

I think it's still going to be both, and they're implying that skill rating can only do so much in defining how fast a player is. They are saying that to say, "Expect to find people who will be better than you regardless of what the rating says." A skill rating is just an indicator, it's like Elo in chess, it helps but it's not absolute. A safety rating is more like a track record of the evidence of dirty driving, which tries to be more objective.

Also, there's just the general principle that if you're up against fast-clean players, it's MUCH easier to be faster yourself and concentrate on improving your driving. Compare and contrast with the violent bumperfest of Horizon Open and Trials in FH5, where brain-dead teammates are seemingly out to murder you to the last cylinder and will face no consequences for it. I feel like I drive defensively more than quickly when playing online, leaving me mostly unable to focus on improving my lines if I'm in the middle of the pack. Add to that the fact the AI behaves violently erratically and makes wild and unpredictable swerves as if to try and murder you to the last catalytic converter, and it's just not... very fun at all.

If FM can stop making online races feel like the Fury Road and more like a race track with respectable, if not professional drivers, I'm looking forward to it. Otherwise, I hope the AI is engaging enough.

 

[The_Greaser]

Dear Forza Motorsport, after the huge disappointment that Starfield is for me, this is your chance to retake the true flagship title as a Microsoft Studios game!

Isn't Redfall a major disaster compared to well... Starfield? I haven't known about the game's reviews.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Isn't Redfall a major disaster compared to well... Starfield? I haven't known about the game's reviews.

Redfall did everything it possibly could to make you forget Redfall was released. Starfield managed to earn itself the damning-with-faint-praise title of "Released with a lot less bugs than I expected" from most of the people I know who played it.

All this to say, yes, Starfield is impressive! ... by Bethesda standards.

 

[UKMikey]

Redfall did everything it possibly could to make you forget Redfall was released. Starfield managed to earn itself the damning-with-faint-praise title of "Released with a lot less bugs than I expected" from most of the people I know who played it.

All this to say, yes, Starfield is impressive! ... by Bethesda standards.

Don't worry, the modding community will sort everything out... oh crap, I'm on console.

 

[SU_Tempest]

Don't worry, the modding community will sort this out... oh crap, I'm on console.

And the cycle of life continues... (but seriously I feel sorry for you if you wanted the mods)

 

[Nacho Libre]

Isn't Redfall a major disaster compared to well... Starfield? I haven't known about the game's reviews.

Starfield is not a disaster, I just personally couldn't get into it and as Redfall, it's not from a true original Microsoft studio. FM, as Halo and Gears of War are among the pillars which IMO built the brand.

 

[UKMikey]

And the cycle of life continues... (but seriously I feel sorry for you if you wanted the mods)

Nah...

 

[aguia]

I don't know if I should buy an Xbox to play the new Forza or the new Age of Empires

 

[Bulavka113]

We still don't know the full list of cars, less than a month before the game's release...

 

[R55NA]

Let's hope this game doesn't have a loading screen every couple of laps...

Load times on FM7 were tragic! Hopefully we are past that with the SSD on the XSX.

 

[SU_Tempest]

We still don't know the full list of cars, less than a month before the game's release...

90% of it has been revealed already. They have plenty of time to reveal the last 40-50.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I wouldn’t mind if they didn’t, be nice to have some surprises to discover.

 

[Imari]

I'm amused by comments like "what have they done for the last 6 years? This is a coat of paint slapped on Forza 7"

To be fair, similar comments were made about GT7 coming from GTS. It's only ~5 years there, but the sentiment is the same. It's amusing, but very predictable.

The fact is that there used to be massive and obvious visual differences between generations of games, and that's largely gone away. PS5 looks better than PS4, but when you compare to PS1=>PS2 or PS2=>PS3 there just isn't the same jump in visual quality. It's not possible to do that any more, even on the world's best PC with every setting maxed is it reasonable to expect that sort of jump over FM7.

These games have been first and foremost graphical showcases for the longest time, and I think people are struggling to adjust to the fact that basically any competently made modern racing game is going to look very nice. The real work these days is being done on things that are less obvious in a trailer or a showcase.

No what I mean is, I thought your skill rating and safety rating would be used to place you into races with similar players but it's mainly going to be your safety rating that is the deciding factor. As when the interviewer said he avoids MP due to his skill level, Dan didn't even try to hide that you will be up against faster players but if you drive clean, at least you'll be up against fast-clean players.

Well, if a race has 24 people in it then it's probably not going to be you and 23 aliens no matter how clean you drive. Unless you're really just dogwater slow then there's likely to be plenty of people for the server to match you against, and you've got a 1 in 24 chance of being the fastest one.

The reality is that safety and skill are not entirely independent. If you're good enough to be fast, you probably have to be pretty clean. To finish first, first you must finish and all that. If you're not fast, there's a good chance it's because your car control and racecraft aren't great. So even if you want to drive clean you probably get involved in incidents a lot.

There are slow drivers who are very clean, and there are fast drivers who are total Schumachers, but in general the correlation holds up because that's how racing works.