Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Ak1504]

I had the same great FM experience in FM5 as in every other FM game i played. 🤩

 

[UKMikey]

The only major gripe I had with 5 was that awful music. 🫣

 

[meganinja]

FM/FM8 may escape some of criticism that 5 faced because while the content numbers are lower, the overall experience seems to have been completely overhauled.

Also there is that the fact that there has content they would like to put but this time they cant due exclusivities (ie. NASCAR and IndyCar probally)

I actually feel curious to know what they will do to deal with this, will they go back to Gen 4 cars like FM3/FM4 or they will use COT or the Gen 6 since they are retired cars by now and some games could use Gen 6 even if they had not the NASCAR licence?

 

[Northstar]

Also there is that the fact that there has content they would like to put but this time they cant due exclusivities (ie. NASCAR and IndyCar probally)

I actually feel curious to know what they will do to deal with this, will they go back to Gen 4 cars like FM3/FM4 or they will use COT or the Gen 6 since they are retired cars by now and some games could use Gen 6 even if they had not the NASCAR licence?

I'd imagine they would just include late models if they wanted stock car racing to be represented. They could even strike a deal with the Cars tour since that's the most popular pavement late model series at the moment and has some big names running it.

 

[meganinja]

They could even strike a deal with the Cars tour since that's the most popular pavement late model series at the moment and has some big names running it.

If they go for this route, I would prefer SRX, the SRX cars are more pretty than Late Models, in my opinion

 

[r_outsider]

The cars on horizon doesnt drive totally like they do on real life.

, Would you believe my IRL car drives a bit less unbelievably in FH4 than in FM7? Although if it drove like it does in either I probably would have bought something less homicidal.

 

[GTxForza]

The main thing I really want to see in this game right now is the handling model being improved over its previous installments.

 

[Ak1504]

Tbh if you did not liked the handling in previous FM games i don't think you will be happy with the new game. Yes Turn10 mentioned big changes but also said the known Forza handling will still be there.

"We’re creating a realistic simulation of real-world suspension that will be responsive and aligned with player expectations while retaining the “Forza feel” you know and love."

 

[breyzipp]

Tbh if you did not liked the handling in previous FM games i don't think you will be happy with the new game. Yes Turn10 mentioned big changes but also said the known Forza handling will still be there.

"We’re creating a realistic simulation of real-world suspension that will be responsive and aligned with player expectations while retaining the “Forza feel” you know and love."

I’m mentally preparing myself already to rediscover the same old 360-era tire screeching sound in the new FM-not-8.

 

[Bilu]

If they change the "gameplay feel" of Motorsport to please a handful of hardcore simulator players, I'm out.

 

[meganinja]

If they change the "gameplay feel" of Motorsport to please a handful of hardcore simulator players, I'm out.

I think they will continue with simcade route, they said it will enhance wheel support but it wouldnt affect who those use controllers

In fact a lot of T10 develop footage has controllers instead of wheels, some of "hardcore sim" players got preatty annowed with it, i mind you

 

[nukleabomb]

I think they will continue with simcade route, they said it will enhance wheel support but it wouldnt affect who those use controllers

In fact a lot of T10 develop footage has controllers instead of wheels, some of "hardcore sim" players got preatty annowed with it, i mind you

If anybody is expecting FM to be like iracing/rfactor/ACC in terms of physics and steering feel, prepare to be as disappointed as a ferrari f1 fan.

That being said they are aiming for a more serious esports feel for online racing it seems like. While also promising some sort of "car building" single player career.

Oh and a lot of wheel testing was done internally in 2020 according to Chris esaki in an old forza monthly. They did say some of the improvements were used in enhancing the experience between FH4 to FH5 (which was a huge improvement). Now, that doesn't mean much when the physics engine is different, but is some hope. I do hope they shadow drop a demo after the showcase event. But that would probably take too much dev time away from the main game and it's future dlc aspects.

 

[TokoTurismo]

All T10 has to do is make FM an enjoyable experience that doesn't stem towards either category (sim or arcade). I especially don't want Assetto Corsa-like physics where controllers are not even playable at all, just to cater to a certain amount of people. And we ESPECIALLY don't need another PC3 situation where you throw everything out the window and go full on arcade, and pretend it's "aLl ThE sIm YoU nEeD", that's for sure.

 

[r_outsider]

Why can one not have both great and believable vehicle dynamics AND good controller and wheel implementation?

 

[nukleabomb]

Why can one not have both great and believable vehicle dynamics AND good controller and wheel implementation?

It is a a very thin line and most games end up picking 2 of 3. GT7, from what i have read online, is the only one that is in that goldilock zone. But even then GT seems to be brushed aside as "not a real sim" by most online sim communities as its physics aren't considered realistic enough.

 

[Beebo]

I don't think FM(not 8) will lean too hard into the sim side, most sim players have probably already written the game off for not being realistic enough haha.

 

[Beezer215]

GT7 is not in any "goldilock zone" (weird use of that term but it works I guess lol). Through a DD2 and Heusinkveld pedals the cars feel like wet sponges driving on underinflated balloons. It doesn't hold a candle to anything considered sim on PC. Ask yourself what GT7 is simulating in 2023 and how good is it doing that and you should find that it really isn't a simulator. Let's just say there's a lot missing in the calculations. Not too mention that every car has the same floaty feeling and lack of contact with the road. There's just a canned supposed scrub vibration if you turn the wheel too far, and it's the same for EVERY car. yuck.

Even though I spend 90% of my time in these "hardcore sims", whatever that means, we also like to have something with a career experience that's capturing and has an invigorating progression. Something not too serious to pop some tops on a few beers, take some tokes and race in. I have Project Cars 3. Every once in a while I'll turn it on. Seriously that's what I thought GT7 would be for me but it's abysmal. The AI are abhorrent, the economy is a joke. The menu book career is by far the worst idea I have ever seen for a progressing "career" in Motorsport Racing. AND it has been implemented in such an I don't give a **** anyways fashion that it baffles me as to what they were even trying to accomplish with it. They obviously don't care about the product that much anymore over at PD unless it has to do with their "partnerships" or their fake ass World Championship that no one watches.

I never owned a Forza before. I'm here because I want a progression style arcade game that I don't have to get too serious about. However, realism and taking what it offers seriously is most welcomed. To think that people who enjoy the most realistic of sims that exist here in 2023 would just write off FM(8) because it doesn't fit that profile isn't probably the truest angle to take. I'm looking forward to sharing a wonderful single player experience that gives me stuff to do. More races and paths to internal championships than I know what to do with.

 

[nukleabomb]

GT7 is not in any "goldilock zone" (weird use of that term but it works I guess lol). Through a DD2 and Heusinkveld pedals the cars feel like wet sponges driving on underinflated balloons. It doesn't hold a candle to anything considered sim on PC. Ask yourself what GT7 is simulating in 2023 and how good is it doing that and you should find that it really isn't a simulator. Let's just say there's a lot missing in the calculations. Not too mention that every car has the same floaty feeling and lack of contact with the road. There's just a canned supposed scrub vibration if you turn the wheel too far, and it's the same for EVERY car. yuck.

Even though I spend 90% of my time in these "hardcore sims", whatever that means, we also like to have something with a career experience that's capturing and has an invigorating progression. Something not too serious to pop some tops on a few beers, take some tokes and race in. I have Project Cars 3. Every once in a while I'll turn it on. Seriously that's what I thought GT7 would be for me but it's abysmal. The AI are abhorrent, the economy is a joke. The menu book career is by far the worst idea I have ever seen for a progressing "career" in Motorsport Racing. AND it has been implemented in such an I don't give a **** anyways fashion that it baffles me as to what they were even trying to accomplish with it. They obviously don't care about the product that much anymore over at PD unless it has to do with their "partnerships" or their fake ass World Championship that no one watches.

I never owned a Forza before. I'm here because I want a progression style arcade game that I don't have to get too serious about. However, realism and taking what it offers seriously is most welcomed. To think that people who enjoy the most realistic of sims that exist here in 2023 would just write off FM(8) because it doesn't fit that profile isn't probably the truest angle to take. I'm looking forward to sharing a wonderful single player experience that gives me stuff to do. More races and paths to internal championships than I know what to do with.

As i said, GT7 gets easily brushed aside as "not a real sm" by most sim racing communities. GT7 pros play it with a wheel, it is playable on the controller and has accpetable physics across a wide variety of car types (with upgrades too). It still meets all 3 conditions. All the "real sims" only focus on wheel gameplay which means that they suck on a gamepad. They also lack the features that console racing games have, as you mentioned.

You can find a chill game that has enough realism on Assetto Corsa, with sufficient mods. Forza will not come close to what you are expecting, especially if you consider GT7 to be yuck. Also, what's funny is that the same "fake ass World Championship that no one watches" has got GT7 a slot in the Olympics as an e-sport categories, over any of the "REAL SIM racers".

Project cars 2 tried a very nice career mode and had good advanced physics, which also got spit on by the sim community.
All this is to say that Forza was the worst of these 3 (pc2, gt7) with a wheel, and i don't see it being much better than these. Forget attempting to go against iR,rf2 and ACC. It would be dedicating a lot of dev time just for maybe 1% of players who will choose "real sims" over Forza anyway.

 

[Stupornaut]

I don't think I've ever heard an actual good, involved reason as to why Forza's physics aren't "real" that don't involve a lot of convoluted jargon and subjectivity from people who don't see any difference between it and a Need For Speed title. Granted, I haven't been racing with a wheel for long and I'm not using a high-grade direct drive rig, but recently I decided to give FM7 a spin around Sebring in an Alfa GTA after finding some good FFB settings and I couldn't tell what the "-cade" aspect of this "simcade" was supposed to be. I've also been putting a lot of time into Assetto Corsa lately and I still can't entirely tell how much closer to real life it's suppsoed to be, either. Ask 95% of people who've ever driven a racing game, especially on console, and they think Forza and GT are hardcore sims and their idea of an arcade game is Burnout. I feel like maybe there might be something "stylized" or approximate-is-close-enough to Forza's physics, but what are the actual "this is totally fake" aspects to its physics that get the hardcore simmers' eyes rolling?

 

[UKMikey]

I figured most of the criticism aimed at Forza Motorsport was towards the way that it doesn't try to create a race day experience with practice and qualifying rounds but instead places you at the back of the grid and forces you to fight your way to the front rather than fight a rearguard action against realistic AI. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know its physics aren't at the pinnacle of sim racing but would've thought its bash-your-way-to-P1 aesthetic would be seen by non-Forza players as a bigger disadvantage of the series than "it doesn't feel like GT/AC/rFactor 2 etc" although increasing the race length alleviates this to an extent. Being optimised for the Xbox controller rather than a racing wheel setup probably doesn't help either for those with rigs.

 

[Ande3200]

Forza motorsport and gran turismo just offer things like pc sim racers never Will have witch a makes most of them boring to me,

the sim racers has very
very few amount of cars, and not good varity
you cant customize or upgrade cars either
no progression
not controller friendly

this is what makes forza motorsport and gran turismo so appealing,

assetto,corsa on pc is awesome with mods but its still not feel the same,
on console i would not consider anything else besides forza motorsport or gran turismo as far as track racers go

 

[Beezer215]

has got GT7 a slot in the Olympics as an e-sport categories, over any of the "REAL SIM racers".

And we are laughing. Seriously, does anyone consider e-sports to be Olympics? Something that Sony most likely paid into to get their name there. I don't have that evidence but come on. I'm sure these kids parents are bragging everywhere.
Over any "real sim racers". Like the real drivers that use these real sims? Like Max, Lando and Leclerc? Funny, I've never seen them on their streams using GT7, the real Olympic simulator. In fact, I can't really name any real drivers who are using GT7, of course I'm not really paying that close attention but when I get on the yootoobs, you bet they're on rF2, iceRacing or even regular old AC.

 

[Beezer215]

Forza motorsport and gran turismo just offer things like pc sim racers never Will have witch a makes most of them boring to me,

the sim racers has very
very few amount of cars, and not good varity
you cant customize or upgrade cars either
no progression
not controller friendly
this is what makes forza motorsport and gran turismo so appealing,
assetto,corsa on pc is awesome with mods but its still not feel the same,

Few amount of cars? I have like 3000 cars and 1500 tracks in AC and that's on the light end of the spectrum. Doesn't feel the same as what? For a ten year old title it's still a standard and better than a lot of other stuff out there including GT7. That's a opinion of course but when you go the route of triple screens and a full rig, falling back to console terms is a little deflating. I really don't have any desire to use a controller for any of these racing games/sims when I've already experienced how fun it is with all the fun peripherals. I may be in the minority there but oh well.
Have you seen rF2's Steam Workshop? I'm not sure what else you need to be happy. There's so many customized cars in AC is ridiculous. I wouldn't see why you would need to customize a single car when each different car has it's own set of unique physics to what it represents and not just some add ons that make it go "faster".
Maybe they are boring to some, but the fun of doing an hour long race in AMS2 with damage and full course yellows, with pit strategies is a surreal experience that puts you closer to a real feeling. Not banging against other cars or walls, that might end your race. There's nothing like being 3rd in a race you've been doing for a half an hour only to get a corner wrong and bin it into a wall or another car, now you have to pit and repair. It's devastating and fun all at the same time. It's the experience, not running over gold coins or having to collect credits in a fake economy just to have stuff to use. But that's why there's two side to the coin here.
Forza is on PC and not just on consoles so therefore it can reach both sides of the audience.
(sorry for the double post)

 

[Northstar]

Also, what's funny is that the same "fake ass World Championship that no one watches" has got GT7 a slot in the Olympics as an e-sport categories, over any of the "REAL SIM racers".

I'm not so sure the Olympic stuff is really much of a flex considering the other titles being utilized.

Archery (Tic Tac Bow),
• Baseball (WBSC eBASEBALL™: POWER PROS),
• Chess (Chess.com)
• Cycling (Zwift)
• Dance (Just Dance)
• Motor sport (Gran Turismo)
• Sailing (Virtual Regatta)
• Shooting (Fortnite - Creator Mode)
• Tennis (Tennis Clash)
• Taekwondo (Virtual Taekwondo)

 

[skazz]

I don't think I've ever heard an actual good, involved reason as to why Forza's physics aren't "real" that don't involve a lot of convoluted jargon and subjectivity from people who don't see any difference between it and a Need For Speed title. Granted, I haven't been racing with a wheel for long and I'm not using a high-grade direct drive rig, but recently I decided to give FM7 a spin around Sebring in an Alfa GTA after finding some good FFB settings and I couldn't tell what the "-cade" aspect of this "simcade" was supposed to be. I've also been putting a lot of time into Assetto Corsa lately and I still can't entirely tell how much closer to real life it's suppsoed to be, either. Ask 95% of people who've ever driven a racing game, especially on console, and they think Forza and GT are hardcore sims and their idea of an arcade game is Burnout. I feel like maybe there might be something "stylized" or approximate-is-close-enough to Forza's physics, but what are the actual "this is totally fake" aspects to its physics that get the hardcore simmers' eyes rolling?

Forza Motorsport has a couple of main things which detract from realism compared to PC sims:

1. The tyre physics are not very organic: if you get in a slide, you have to wait it out (sort of on/off after a few seconds). This is what PC sims did in the early 2010's, but modern sims properly simulate grip loss and gain in real time and you can properly influence the car as it slides. This is a BIG area where I hope for improvement between FM7 and FM(8).
2. in general Forza has always been a little too "tail happy". Both road and race cars seem to tend towards oversteer more than in any other simulator type game I've played. Not complaining, it's just something that Forza has always tended to do.
3. Forza has always been bad at giving road surface feedback on a wheel compared to other sims. However it has by far the best controller rumble effects when it comes to giving you driving feedback when using a console controller, which is probably vastly more important for 95% of the Forza player base.
4. FM7 has a really annoying "Forza Glue" effect which sticks you to other cars in really weird ways. I really hate it, and it's definitely something that should go for FM(8).

anyway, these are just a few things off the top of my head. But in comparison Forza Motorsport is by far the best circuit racer when it comes to console controller support. T10 have a magical set of controller assists which make driving with a controller in Forza a joy compared to all the competition. This is something vastly more important than wheel support or amazing physics to 95% of their player base, after all.

 

[MrCrynox]

Forza Motorsport has a couple of main things which detract from realism compared to PC sims:

1. The tyre physics are not very organic: if you get in a slide, you have to wait it out (sort of on/off after a few seconds). This is what PC sims did in the early 2010's, but modern sims properly simulate grip loss and gain in real time and you can properly influence the car as it slides. This is a BIG area where I hope for improvement between FM7 and FM(8).
2. in general Forza has always been a little too "tail happy". Both road and race cars seem to tend towards oversteer more than in any other simulator type game I've played. Not complaining, it's just something that Forza has always tended to do.
3. Forza has always been bad at giving road surface feedback on a wheel compared to other sims. However it has by far the best controller rumble effects when it comes to giving you driving feedback when using a console controller, which is probably vastly more important for 95% of the Forza player base.
4. FM7 has a really annoying "Forza Glue" effect which sticks you to other cars in really weird ways. I really hate it, and it's definitely something that should go for FM(8).

anyway, these are just a few things off the top of my head. But in comparison Forza Motorsport is by far the best circuit racer when it comes to console controller support. T10 have a magical set of controller assists which make driving with a controller in Forza a joy compared to all the competition. This is something vastly more important than wheel support or amazing physics to 95% of their player base, after all.

Totally agree about T10 working magic with the controller. I've been playing PC3 a lot recently and loving the feeling on controller, but I just had a quick go on FM5, (dunno why I just felt the urge), and instantly it felt amazing, so much feedback. And whilst I generally agree about the oversteering physics, the V8 falcon and Ferrari GTO I was just driving in PC3 both felt planted almost too much grip on FM5 in comparison. And both looked/sounded better. Guess I'm really looking forward to new Motorsport, despite all the killjoys, just like all the previous games I know I'm gonna love it.

 

[meganinja]

Forza motorsport and gran turismo just offer things like pc sim racers never Will have witch a makes most of them boring to me,

the sim racers has very
very few amount of cars, and not good varity
you cant customize or upgrade cars either
no progression
not controller friendly

this is what makes forza motorsport and gran turismo so appealing,

assetto,corsa on pc is awesome with mods but its still not feel the same,
on console i would not consider anything else besides forza motorsport or gran turismo as far as track racers go

I doubt if it will happen but i would love that AC2 extends the Controller support, giving the experience of driving similar as it is on wheel, this with the mods, would be a great rival for both GT and Forza

Few amount of cars?

He mean on default game, without the mods, the number of cars is truly borebones

I'm not so sure the Olympic stuff is really much of a flex considering the other titles being utilized.

Archery (Tic Tac Bow),
• Baseball (WBSC eBASEBALL™: POWER PROS),
• Chess (Chess.com)
• Cycling (Zwift)
• Dance (Just Dance)
• Motor sport (Gran Turismo)
• Sailing (Virtual Regatta)
• Shooting (Fortnite - Creator Mode)
• Tennis (Tennis Clash)
• Taekwondo (Virtual Taekwondo)

I will be the evil´s advocate on this case for a bit, but i know a bit or two of some games on list
Firstly, it wasnt IOC that picked the titles, it was their respective IOC member federations, on this case, FIA had picked GT7 as their game, UCI had picked Zwift, WBSC picked Power pros, so on and on

Second, Zwift, Just Dance, Chess dot com and Virtual Regatta are the most popular games on their specific niches, in fact Zwift and Chess were used a lot alongside the IRL pros to make virtual tournaments and Cycling Tours during the COVID pause

Power Pros (a game that i am part of fan community as well), while not that popular on west, its a VERY popular KONAMI game in Asia, in fact, the game has licence with the Japanese Baseball league and the Japanese League had done Special Tournaments using the Real life teams and drafting pro players of Power Pros for a League.

Fortnite, while still not being on traditional Battle Royale mode, is still a BIG name, specially people are doing different things on Creator Mode, and this competition will surely be a showcase of it

People only trashed this project beacuse they expected the big names like LOL, CS or some similar, even if IOC said many many times in recent past it wouldnt put those and focus on more niche sporty ones due the fact that the most popular ones have violent overtones and it could be used to cause trouble on a geopolitical context (ie South vs North Korea, India vs Pakistan) going agnaist the own IOC rules (you could argue with that video games cause violence debate but that this point wasnt even bring out even once, all critiques i had saw were for the pick of the sports and why they had not picked outhers without explain the reason of why they took the decision)

Notice how most of the news critizing the event never talk about why the games were chosen but instead try to talk the shady connections with the only 2 true problematic games on the list (the bow and tennis), they never talked about the sucess of Zwift during covid, competive Just Dance that exist for years or the popularity of Power Pros in Asia , i dare to say that this wave of critisism may be created on purpose to ruin the tournament and not risk the fall of some games actually in sucess

 

[UKMikey]

Totally agree about T10 working magic with the controller. I've been playing PC3 a lot recently and loving the feeling on controller, but I just had a quick go on FM5, (dunno why I just felt the urge), and instantly it felt amazing, so much feedback. And whilst I generally agree about the oversteering physics, the V8 falcon and Ferrari GTO I was just driving in PC3 both felt planted almost too much grip on FM5 in comparison. And both looked/sounded better. Guess I'm really looking forward to new Motorsport, despite all the killjoys, just like all the previous games I know I'm gonna love it.

BTW @MrCrynox I'd like to say I finally got your settings to work in PC2 and actually managed to complete a practice lap or two without spinning off into oblivion. Had to dial the damping to about 10 or so though as I wasn't making those corners in time. Will try to fit a couple of races in between Horizon and DiRT Rally 2.0 and see how it goes.

 

[Ande3200]

Few amount of cars? I have like 3000 cars and 1500 tracks in AC and that's on the light end of the spectrum. Doesn't feel the same as what? For a ten year old title it's still a standard and better than a lot of other stuff out there including GT7. That's a opinion of course but when you go the route of triple screens and a full rig, falling back to console terms is a little deflating. I really don't have any desire to use a controller for any of these racing games/sims when I've already experienced how fun it is with all the fun peripherals. I may be in the minority there but oh well.
Have you seen rF2's Steam Workshop? I'm not sure what else you need to be happy. There's so many customized cars in AC is ridiculous. I wouldn't see why you would need to customize a single car when each different car has it's own set of unique physics to what it represents and not just some add ons that make it go "faster".
Maybe they are boring to some, but the fun of doing an hour long race in AMS2 with damage and full course yellows, with pit strategies is a surreal experience that puts you closer to a real feeling. Not banging against other cars or walls, that might end your race. There's nothing like being 3rd in a race you've been doing for a half an hour only to get a corner wrong and bin it into a wall or another car, now you have to pit and repair. It's devastating and fun all at the same time. It's the experience, not running over gold coins or having to collect credits in a fake economy just to have stuff to use. But that's why there's two side to the coin here.
Forza is on PC and not just on consoles so therefore it can reach both sides of the audience.
(sorry for the double post)

Thats fair points, and i did said that ac with mods are awesome, but the quality on cars is sometimes not great, but completly understandable, its the only simulator i like, and its not becouse of physics, its becouse of content you can get for it, its still lacks that progression system i would like, i prefer working towards getting the cars as you progress, their is also no way to customize and upgrade cars ingame, witch is why gran turismo has some advantages for me, most of time i playing with a controller i dont need a wheel to have fun, and in my space i cant have Wheel set up all the time for space it takes up, so everytime i would play i would need to set it up each time, sometimes i just want to enjoy game on a controller, i completly understand why you prefer simulators, but i like amount of detail e.x gt7 gives you for cars but also all options avaiable, upgrading exhausts actully changes the exhaust visually to witch i have not seen in many racing games, this amount of detail is what i really like

 

[Beezer215]

Thats fair points, and i did said that ac with mods are awesome, but the quality on cars is sometimes not great, but completly understandable, its the only simulator i like, and its not becouse of physics, its becouse of content you can get for it, its still lacks that progression system i would like, i prefer working towards getting the cars as you progress, their is also no way to customize and upgrade cars ingame, witch is why gran turismo has some advantages for me, most of time i playing with a controller i dont need a wheel to have fun, and in my space i cant have Wheel set up all the time for space it takes up, so everytime i would play i would need to set it up each time, sometimes i just want to enjoy game on a controller, i completly understand why you prefer simulators, but i like amount of detail e.x gt7 gives you for cars but also all options avaiable, upgrading exhausts actully changes the exhaust visually to witch i have not seen in many racing games, this amount of detail is what i really like

Hey, check this out if you haven't seen it. I'm not sure fully how smooth it is because I haven't used it but does look pretty well made and fills that gap of a progression.