Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Ande3200]

They need to get rid of homologation,
It ruin the career mode you could basicely only use the same car on one championchip or race, they need to bring back class racing, that allowed for you to use any car you wanted for eliagable pp

And get rid of the reward system in fm7 and bring back wheelspins,

I also hope they wont go esport route,

The physics wont be anywhere near the simulators, expect it to be on level of gt7 at it very best

 

[MS8]

Forza Motorsport Cover Car Cadillac introduced in IRacing...

 

[Dave A]

They need to get rid of homologation,
It ruin the career mode you could basicely only use the same car on one championchip or race, they need to bring back class racing, that allowed for you to use any car you wanted for eliagable pp

Yes, it was poorly implemented, the events should dictate the restrictions, not the cars themselves. FM7 lost that feeling of building a car for multiple different events, such as buying a FWD hatchback to compete in a hatchback series, then an FF series, a series then tune it up for yet a different series.

The homologation sucked the creativity out of the career mode IMO, it could have been done really well if different events homologated for different cars, but each car had a single class it could race in outside the custom races.

This dumbing down seems to be affecting a few games these days including GT7, which feels like a shell of a single player experience compared to past titles. It's a shame when the ingredients are there, but they're just used badly.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Forza Motorsport Cover Car Cadillac introduced in IRacing...

I see this as a win, it further confirms that Microsoft isn't scummy enough to try to make cars or manufacturers exclusive.

You guys seem to be ignoring that homologation began due to people exploiting the system by using assists with overpowered cars to dominate online racing or single player.

The system needs work but there needs to be a system in place to prevent exploitive car builds. You can't get rid of assists and you can't get rid of upgrades.

 

[Dave A]

I see this as a win, it further confirms that Microsoft isn't scummy enough to try to make cars or manufacturers exclusive.

It doesn't confirm anything other than they haven't got an exclusive license for that Cadillac to be honest.

 

[FordGTGuy]

It doesn't confirm anything other than they haven't got an exclusive license for that Cadillac to be honest.

Considering they haven't done it before and they still aren't doing it now... How about we at least give them credit for that.

Clearly they have the capital to make it exclusive if they wanted to.

 

[R55NA]

Thoughts on Bernese Alps if that track makes it to FM?

Genuinely the worst fictional track ever made into a racing game. Every time that came on in a hopper, I was out!

I dont bother with homologation, but it needs be recreated from scratch
For exemple, the Formula Ford homologation was the stock form, not the actual racing version of Formula Ford

Homologation can be a fun way to equilibrate competition on multiplayer and be a good replacement than already old dated D>C>B>A>R1>R2>S/X system, but it needs to be done on right way

As someone had mentioned early, it limits people to use stupid tunes with 9999999999999999HP and extreme downforce, i abuslute hate those "meta" stuffs that exist on FH and in some Motorsport, let me just give the option to race on fair ground with other cars akin to spec racers

But that was very rare, to have a glitched car online? It was on FM2>6 anyway. To have a "Leaderboard car" back in the Forza M 3/4 days was frowned upon, but just because someone wants to win with a template car, fair play - its more fun to try and keep up (or win), or have a mid field battle.

I had so much fun battling it out with 3 or so cars, all completely different, clean racing. Its so refreshing.

I reiterate my point. Why do we need equal competition in Forza Motorsport? The game is, lets be honest, casual garbage for the most part. Every single race has rammers, and very rarely will a race finish without incident. Why bother trying to make it something serious when the mass demographic aren't going to adhere to it.

I cannot stand people with full assists driving 1000+hp cars (stock tires) in low classes. It completely destroys the enjoyment of online racing.

Custom lobbies and a custom lobby browser can address this issue too.

The whole online experience is a disappointment though. Compare it to GT Sport or GT7 weekly races and its night and day difference in race craft quality.

 

[Dave A]

Considering they haven't done it before and they still aren't doing it now... How about we at least give them credit for that.

Clearly they have the capital to make it exclusive if they wanted to.

I'm not discrediting them, I'm just stating that your original statement is no way confirms anything othert than the obvious. I have never looked into Microsofts Licenses to see if they have done exclusive licenses with anyone for a videogame, it would surprise me if they'd never done it before though, it used to be fairly commonplace in videogames.

 

[ImaRobot]

I think it makes it even crazier in retrospect what Polyphony attempted to do in GT5/6 on the crusty old PS3, dynamic time of day/weather (Turn10 is only getting there 2 generations later)

You can hardly say they even got to it in the first place, considering the mess it was.

That game was a bit of a cluster of a mess with all the ambition they had. Good ideas executed pretty bad. I don't think that's any better of a trade off.

 

[Beezer215]

Genuinely the worst fictional track ever made into a racing game. Every time that came on in a hopper, I was out!

Just ran Bernese Alps last night on AC due to it being brought up here. Was a fun time and shows that when you have a good feeling, physics and a competent AI, a lot of tracks can turn out to be fun to race at. The elevation changes really load into the FFB. Couldn't imagine anyone trying it like I did and saying it's the worst fictional track ever made and would never use it.
It goes to show that there are other fundamentals that add to the sum of a good experience.

 

[meganinja]

They need to get rid of homologation,
It ruin the career mode you could basicely only use the same car on one championchip or race, they need to bring back class racing, that allowed for you to use any car you wanted for eliagable pp

And get rid of the reward system in fm7 and bring back wheelspins,

I also hope they wont go esport route,

You guys seem to be ignoring that homologation began due to people exploiting the system by using assists with overpowered cars to dominate online racing or single player.

This, they had made this system beacuse people were abusing them, i think they will bring it back for Ranked multiplayer but Single Player and Custom Lobbies will be more tolerated for other setups (besides i think Custom Lobbies will give you the option to put the Ranked configs on your lobbny

Forza Motorsport Cover Car Cadillac introduced in IRacing...

Not the first car that comes first to iRacing then goes to Motorsport
Mission R, Porsche Mobe Dick and few other cars as well

I think next is the F4 Car

 

[lurkn4k]

it boggles my mind that the justification against homologation is that the game is casual anyway lol. Terrible logic. could homologation use some more flexibility for single player? sure. Did homologation need to be a thing for online to prevent busted class breaking rocketships? Absolutely. the lack of proper penalties for rammers and driver ratings is an entirely separate matter.

 

[Morbid65]

Homologation "solved" the missile cars and stuff, but it still has leaderboard cars that are OP and people don't like seeing in lobbies. People doing anything they can to get a slight advantage will never change though, every system they come up with will have people trying to exploit it.

Personally, I like the disparity between speed builds and handling builds when running at "normal" somewhat balanced tracks and when they aren't taken to the extreme like many would do with their missile cars. Having areas of the track where one car is weaker than another leads to interesting racing, which is something Forza has generally lacked since the rest of its race stuff is shallow (tire wear/strategy/etc). Le Mans with missile cars in the lobby is zero fun, but someplace like Catalunya with only one big straight? Those can be interesting races.

Thoughts on Bernese Alps if that track makes it to FM?

Worst track in Forza's history, I'd happily sacrifice it for just about any other track.

Understeer central, and doesn't really have any passing zones that don't rely on the car in front screwing up and understeering out wide. That leads to a lot of morons online going for crazy dives and washing up into your door and screwing you both up. Maybe if the game had drafting that actually worked right then it could be tolerable, but particularly within the context of Forza it is an awful race track.

It is a great example of T10's fantasy circuits being graphical showcases first and race tracks second. In FM1 they had the Alpine Ring, which was an excellent track and all they had to do was give it a fancy vista and some ski lifts and other junk and we could have had a track that was both good and pretty, but no instead we get Bernese Alps and the FM1 fantasy circuits, that were easily the best fantasy tracks they have made, get abandoned... Well except Maple Valley, which is the worst of the FM1 fantasy tracks.

They did acknowledge the recent run of fantasy tracks have been generally bad for racing and said they are trying to change that, so hopefully Hakone is better. It will be interesting to see for sure, because I think the last time T10 made a fantasy track that actually felt like it was trying to be a race track was Sedona? It was actually an alright track, but I'm sure the people involved are all different now, so it will be interesting to see what we get.

 

[UKMikey]

Just ran Bernese Alps last night on AC due to it being brought up here. Was a fun time and shows that when you have a good feeling, physics and a competent AI, a lot of tracks can turn out to be fun to race at. The elevation changes really load into the FFB. Couldn't imagine anyone trying it like I did and saying it's the worst fictional track ever made and would never use it.
It goes to show that there are other fundamentals that add to the sum of a good experience.

I never had a problem with it but judging by the comments here can only imagine it's not a good multiplayer track. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[toastet]

Not a fan of Bernese Alps but had to admit I had some of the closest races there beeing "covered under a towel" with opponents for the full race because of missing slipstream and not loosing downforce in the long and fast corners. Same for the Dubai "oval" without the mountain section.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I don't think it is possible to completely get rid of leaderboard cars, not with customization and tuning existing in the game. Balancing hundreds of cars across many performance classes with hundreds of different upgrades is nearly impossible.

As long as they can at least get cars near each other in performance at certain classes than it will mostly come down to driving ability.

I'm not the biggest fan of homologation but it is a necessary evil. Custom lobbies with a custom lobby browser should allow for plenty of non-homologation racing.

I would rather Rally Di Positano full than Bernese Alps.


On a side note, can't wait for Sunday; I hope everyone gets a bit of something they like out of it.

 

[Beebo]

I'm finding myself being a little more positive about Sunday, not getting my hopes up but also not being overly cynical like (admittedly) I may have been a few weeks ago. Also +1 on Rally Di Positano, especially if that means bringing back the full layout.

 

[SimTourist]

You can hardly say they even got to it in the first place, considering the mess it was.

That game was a bit of a cluster of a mess with all the ambition they had. Good ideas executed pretty bad. I don't think that's any better of a trade off.

The only tradeoff was the shaky framerate, but still doing a race at Nurburgring or Le Mans and seeing sunrises and sunsets was pretty amazing. They could've played it safe like GT5 Prologue which had pretty stable 60 fps, but I can respect the audacity to try something that hasn't been done. You just don't see this kinda ambition today, even at Polyphony itself and that's a bit sad.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not discrediting them, I'm just stating that your original statement is no way confirms anything othert than the obvious. I have never looked into Microsofts Licenses to see if they have done exclusive licenses with anyone for a videogame, it would surprise me if they'd never done it before though, it used to be fairly commonplace in videogames.

I tried to Google it a bit, but I believe a T10 dev. (likely Chris) had said in the past that they were not fans of signing exclusive license deals because of the restrictions it creates for others.

Whether or not that was just good PR and that Microsoft may have a whole other thought on that, I think they've stuck to that belief? I'm not sure if FM has any car solely restricted to it. But, to your ending credit, exclusive licensing doesn't seem that common anymore, either. Does GT7 have any exclusive licenses anymore? I figured they'd had a pretty solid grasp on Toyota/Lexus given no other major game had the LC500, but even that has made its way FH5 now.

 

[Ak1504]

All i know is Motorsport Games can lick ma... No support from me for any of their products !

And regarding the new FM I'm sure i will be pleased because i always was with any of the Forza games

 

[PJTierney]

I don't think it is possible to completely get rid of leaderboard cars, not with customization and tuning existing in the game. Balancing hundreds of cars across many performance classes with hundreds of different upgrades is nearly impossible.

Every game has a strategy that’s perceived to be optimal.

Even if there are only 2 cars in a game/class, one of them will be better than the other.

 

[R55NA]

it boggles my mind that the justification against homologation is that the game is casual anyway lol. Terrible logic. could homologation use some more flexibility for single player? sure. Did homologation need to be a thing for online to prevent busted class breaking rocketships? Absolutely. the lack of proper penalties for rammers and driver ratings is an entirely separate matter.

I mean, I am not in the minority

Its a win/win for me really.


If homologation is in FM8, I am immediately out, and will spend my time playing other games in my backlog, fantastic!

If it isnt there, I get to enjoy a FM game once again!

 

[R55NA]

Just ran Bernese Alps last night on AC due to it being brought up here. Was a fun time and shows that when you have a good feeling, physics and a competent AI, a lot of tracks can turn out to be fun to race at. The elevation changes really load into the FFB. Couldn't imagine anyone trying it like I did and saying it's the worst fictional track ever made and would never use it.
It goes to show that there are other fundamentals that add to the sum of a good experience.

What class of car are you using? I used to only run B or A Class cars when online, and I only played online. Didn't do time trial, or any single player towards the end of the FM lifecycle.

And it sucks. Its just flat out - thats why I dislike Maple Valley, same sort of thing.

 

[PJTierney]

The PI system in general needs a complete overhaul, but I have my doubts as to whether or not we'd get that.

Ideally, I would like to see two different rating systems:

1. The PI system (but slightly better balanced) for road cars, it's effective for allowing lots of build freedom
   
   
2. A a separate BoP system for race cars, similar to GT Sport.
   These wouldn't use PI at all, but rather be balanced every month or two, like a fighting game.
   If a certain car is so "meta" that it's dominating the field, it gets extra weight, less power etc..
   This system would make sense for race car classes specifically, like TCR, GT3 etc.

 

[SimTourist]

They really need to add some roadfeel to controller feedback, forza has always been too smooth, what's the point of laserscanning tracks if you can't feel anything on the road surface.

 

[nukleabomb]

The PI system in general needs a complete overhaul, but I have my doubts as to whether or not we'd get that.

Ideally, I would like to see two different rating systems:

1. The PI system (but slightly better balanced) for road cars, it's effective for allowing lots of build freedom
   
   
2. A a separate BoP system for race cars, similar to GT Sport.
   These wouldn't use PI at all, but rather be balanced every month or two, like a fighting game.
   If a certain car is so "meta" that it's dominating the field, it gets extra weight, less power etc..
   This system would make sense for race car classes specifically, like TCR, GT3 etc.

Honestly this could work for single player too. The main form of progression would be lower to higher PI classes [D to P]. You could graduate/unlock a higher class after obtaining championship points (from normal PI and car type based championship) and also License points (from BoP'ed championships within the same class). The only hurdle is that they would need to BoP racecars in each PI class, but the lower classes can use spec cars. Afaik they have scans for all Ginettas, meaning they would have the gt5 and gt4 cars (if the leaked list is anything to be believed, they should have more than 5 gt4 cars). Below this, they could slot the mx5 cup cars. They can fill the rest of the classes with TC, GT3, Nascar, LMP3, LMP2, LMP1/LMH/LMDh, Indycar, provided they obtain licenses.

Ranked online racing would need to run purely BoP races if they want to make it a level playing field, but upgrades and tuning make forza unique. Maybe BoP championships would be a monthly Ranked leaderboard, while leagues (with normal upgrades) could be more permanent rankings.

 

[Ande3200]

Honestly this could work for single player too. The main form of progression would be lower to higher PI classes [D to P]. You could graduate/unlock a higher class after obtaining championship points (from normal PI and car type based championship) and also License points (from BoP'ed championships within the same class). The only hurdle is that they would need to BoP racecars in each PI class, but the lower classes can use spec cars. Afaik they have scans for all Ginettas, meaning they would have the gt5 and gt4 cars (if the leaked list is anything to be believed, they should have more than 5 gt4 cars). Below this, they could slot the mx5 cup cars. They can fill the rest of the classes with TC, GT3, Nascar, LMP3, LMP2, LMP1/LMH/LMDh, Indycar, provided they obtain licenses.

Ranked online racing would need to run purely BoP races if they want to make it a level playing field, but upgrades and tuning make forza unique. Maybe BoP championships would be a monthly Ranked leaderboard, while leagues (with normal upgrades) could be more permanent rankings.

Forza is not only one that have tuning and upgrades, so bop could easily be done in multiplayer like daily races they have in gt7, gran turismo also have upgrades and tuning, witch is not part of sport multiplayer

 

[nukleabomb]

Forza is not only one that have tuning and upgrades, so bop could easily be done in multiplayer like daily races they have in gt7, gran turismo also have upgrades and tuning, witch is not part of sport multiplayer

Unfortunately gt7 and forza arent on any common platforms. Which is why they're indirectly competing with each other (as system sellers).

 

[Ande3200]

Unfortunately gt7 and forza arent on any common platforms. Which is why they're indirectly competing with each other (as system sellers).

I never said they was competing,

 

[ImaRobot]

The only tradeoff was the shaky framerate, but still doing a race at Nurburgring or Le Mans and seeing sunrises and sunsets was pretty amazing. They could've played it safe like GT5 Prologue which had pretty stable 60 fps, but I can respect the audacity to try something that hasn't been done. You just don't see this kinda ambition today, even at Polyphony itself and that's a bit sad.

Wasn't just shaky, it was outright bad. I don't care about audacity or ambition, I'm more for a game that'll run right when trying to race in a field with the features they allowed to be in the game. Ambition doesnt mean much if you're fracturing your game just to say "ME FIRST!"