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- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
- 14,235 comments
- 1,427,033 views
- 746
- Brazil
i could be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery wrong, but it seems to me a type of free bonus as apoligize for something, but i am not sure, i had saw a post of them talking about a mistake with ferrari
Does any free update car/stuffs like Eventslab Island shows as DLC in steam? they do often show up in windows store as DLC, not as part of the game
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- 1,458
- Texas
- JoshsoJB
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- UK
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This listing has nothing to do with enabling the purchase of credits in-game. It is a developer tool to be used for our own promotional purposes on this digital storefront. The description is intended for internal purposes and even free items are often classified as ‘DLC’ on digital storefronts.
- 437
- England
- 3,867
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
For those of us who love these games, it just means 6 months of "early adoption" while they sort things out, then years playing the game as it was originally intended. Not a big deal for me personally, but it's bad for the franchise's future, definitely.
My main take-away is concern that FH6 will still get the budget it deserves, to be honest.
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I think it's a bad precedent to be okay with rushed and unfinished games. It's not good enough for a fully priced product. It's so common in modern gaming too and we should demand and expect better. With the insomniac leaks and what's going on with MS, AAA gaming is really in a rocky place and I do wonder how sustainable it all is in the future with the huge inflated budgets and constant rocky launches. I don't wana be all doom and gloom It's hard not to be in this regard
- 2,140
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
I just watched that, as it popped up on my YouTube feed, came here to talk about it, and there it was already mentioned by you!
The 18 month thing sounds absolutely catastrophic. From my experience of working on large software projects, someone who has been employed for 18 months is like a baby just learning to walk. The real work is all done by people who have been there for an absolute minimum of 2 years, and for the really serious stuff, it's done by people who have worked there for 5 years plus. Senior managers see software developers as being as interchangeable as typists and have absolutely no grasp of what it takes to understand hundreds of thousands of lines of code and architect new areas of development to fit in with that massive existing code base. Even if FM was built from the ground up by new starters, removing the problem of needing to architect it to fit in with existing code, you'd still be throwing away all the expertise gained from development of what existed before. The real value in starting again is you create a new architecture that fixes all the problems the old architecture had, but that requires the work to be done by people with extensive experience of the old code base.
- 359
- New Zealand
- syphe
Yes it's absolutely tragic, and a shame that labour laws in certain places allow this kind of thing, and unfortunately while the draw of working on a game exists things aren't likely to change. I'm in Europe and it's night and day compared to my fellow employees in the US, so many of them are contractors essentially working as pseudo FTE's.
These short term contracts are likely for employees in the content pipelines, engineers will likely be hired as FTE's with sign on stock bonuses and yearly performance bonuses, even grads.
One thing that is not mentioned in the video but which I believe had a huge impact on Forza is the layoffs throughout 2022-2023, they were done in such a way that very few people in the company worldwide would have felt much job security, with the layoffs coming in waves, not sure how much this would have affected T10 but wouldn't be surprised this lead to issues with the games development
- 3,009
- Mexico
As an independent contractor for most of my professional life, I feel for the people that has to work contract to contract. Job security is now something mythical from my grandfather/father's era...
Maybe this is why the GT games still retain this "prestige" image because their product is meticulously crafted by what is essentially a Japanese company within the bigger company (Sony), while Forza Motorsport is just now another corporate product for the pipeline of the Xbox/Game Pass "ecosystem".
But maybe Sony's culture is about to change because the new Playstation boss (Hiroki Totoki) comes from financial and wants to aggressively go multiplatform, and has hinted that their development teams have to think of the bottom line and growth moving forward...
Maybe there is hope for the industry with the recent success of outsider games: Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Palworld, and Helldivers 2, and I sure hope one racing game from the outside could shake things and break the monopoly that GT/FM have in their respective environments (RIP, Project Cars, could have been you, but you went corporate.)
Just my two cents for the weekend...
Maybe this is why the GT games still retain this "prestige" image because their product is meticulously crafted by what is essentially a Japanese company within the bigger company (Sony), while Forza Motorsport is just now another corporate product for the pipeline of the Xbox/Game Pass "ecosystem".
But maybe Sony's culture is about to change because the new Playstation boss (Hiroki Totoki) comes from financial and wants to aggressively go multiplatform, and has hinted that their development teams have to think of the bottom line and growth moving forward...
Maybe there is hope for the industry with the recent success of outsider games: Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, Palworld, and Helldivers 2, and I sure hope one racing game from the outside could shake things and break the monopoly that GT/FM have in their respective environments (RIP, Project Cars, could have been you, but you went corporate.)
Just my two cents for the weekend...
- 3,867
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
As I also know from IT experience, even a group of very smart guys hired together with limited working experience will struggle with planning, scoping and generally every single deadline without having at least a backbone of more senior experienced staff who know what trade-offs to make to hit deadlines properly. Ideally you want no more than 40% of the staff in a project to be low experience otherwise your work delivery speed nose dives.
It also explains why PG is potentially having an easier time, being based in the UK with differing labour laws.
And brings the concern that if the current T10 never manages to deliver a good solid, stable and modular next gen platform on which PG can build their open world, FH6 is likely to be a massive mess too...
It also explains why PG is potentially having an easier time, being based in the UK with differing labour laws.
And brings the concern that if the current T10 never manages to deliver a good solid, stable and modular next gen platform on which PG can build their open world, FH6 is likely to be a massive mess too...
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- Barcelona
Most of people complaining about nords on social media, YT or whatever, do a living from this or just for the sake of numbers. Man, people who points that there are some inaccuracies in the track (graffitis, textures) or the trees look bad etc...how this affects your driving experience? I'm enjoying the track, with the new physics it feels really good. And in the night it looks gorgeous (XSX) just cut the crap and enjoy the track.
Maybe I do better times on Forza than in other sims but again, a great experience.
Oh, by the way, my game crashed in the main screen and I couldn't play on pc since the last month update but now it works again 😁
Maybe I do better times on Forza than in other sims but again, a great experience.
Oh, by the way, my game crashed in the main screen and I couldn't play on pc since the last month update but now it works again 😁
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- 121
- Gothenburg
- Hasse 86
The Youtube algorithm fed me this video last night. Like someone else said, I thought I would post it here, but found today that someone else already had.
This video is made by Adrian Campos. As some of you might remember, I shared a tweet of his earlier in this thread, where he witnessed about how hard the work had been and how sub optimal the work environment is.
It's incredibly sad to hear this. Especially as Adrian seems to be a long time fan of the franchise, who fell in love with Forza back in the 360-era. Just imagine how useful a person like this could've been if he was allowed to stay and become a senior developer. Instead he was kicked out and left disenchanted with T10.
This was the tweet in question:
On a more positive note, it's interesting to hear that Adrian pushed for a few tracks:
- 746
- Brazil
Just watched this video and was wondering if someone had found the video as welll
It only confirms my worries and shows a light of why the game was so messy to begin with, low staff + the fact MS prefers contract 18mo temporary instead of take the L and hire full time people
It will only continue and continue and they keep this pratice, i undestand why they use it, but there has a point that quality should come above profits, specially if xbox wants to promote itself as "the place for the best games in the world"
Its the same thing with 343, they want cut roads hiring temporary beacuse the workforce costs are lower, but as we saw with Forza and Halo Infinite, is FAR better have a team that works with you as long they wish (or hire them after a test period0 than keep using temporary workers nonstop and risk have the messes we are getting
I doubt Polyphone use temporary workers (even if JP laws are worst than USA), i doubt iRacing also use temp workers, i doubt even if the AC developers use temporary workers
AAA needs to stop it if wants to be alive, and MS needs to be at forefront at it
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- 505
- United States
We rarely ever see any light shed on how things work in T10 so it's nice to see even just a little bit of that for a change. Geez, the way contracts work there just kind of illustrates why the game turned out like it did. I feel for all the folks that have to put up with that rule.
- 1,208
- India
This bad boy feels completely at home on the 'ring.
A 6:20 for the first try doesn't seem too bad.
A 6:20 for the first try doesn't seem too bad.
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- Burgundy
- xxflorent21xx
- graoul57
Nice job for this recreation of the nurb, lot of details, the weather condition are great, lightning awesome
But, maybe too much light on some part of the track and my main concern... AI is catastrophic in this track...
Otherwise, the game seems a bit prettier and the clutch bug seems fix, so this is on good way to be the game it was supposed to be
I wish the new events last forever instead of disappearing...
But, maybe too much light on some part of the track and my main concern... AI is catastrophic in this track...
Otherwise, the game seems a bit prettier and the clutch bug seems fix, so this is on good way to be the game it was supposed to be
I wish the new events last forever instead of disappearing...
- 3,926
- Reading
- cutback73
- cutback73
Most PG staff in the UK are (probably) contractors.
Please understand that, In the UK, its not historically been about labour laws, its been (to a huge degree) about TAX paid by the individual. If you are a contractee, you set up an intermediary company which signs the contract with the contractor, and pay yourself a dividend, instead of taking a salary. The UK government has tried many ways to discourage this (including increasing tax on dividends for everyone) which includes IR35. This basically says that in general you can't be a contractor for more than 2 years at the same place, unless you're terms change dramatically.
Understanding off-payroll working (IR35)
Off-payroll working rules for clients, workers (contractors) and their intermediaries.
I've had multiple friends who were VERY happy to be contractors and didn't want to be employees, working on IT projects in banking and computer industry (including one who worked at Microsoft). Because they earned a LOT more money AFTER tax, for 20 years or more.
And yes it certainly suited employers (like Microsoft) as well, so both parties used to be happy with situation.
Recently, that tax benefit has reduced more and more, so it's less appealing. But all my friends who are 40+ in the UK who have been working consistently as a contractor for a number of years have done very well up until recently.
Where they've not done so well is more recently (and this is why younger entrants have suffered and i have a great deal of sympathy for them as they've never enjoyed the historical benefits) where tax benefits have declined and roles have become more scarce. And in THIS market (not the one 10 years ago where contractors wielded the power - my friend turned down permanent offers from Microsoft THREE times at the end of contracts) it is the employers who now wield the power). As with any scarce commodity, it comes down to supply and demand.
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- Canada
It feels great to be back on FM23 again after not playing it for months (mainly due to the crashes and forced practice mode you had to skip in game).
I managed to get the Lambo Murcielago SV in time before it disappeared, and it was a workout... I also did a bit of the career mode to unlock the class-based events so that Porsche will soon be mine!
I thankfully also haven't experienced any crashes on my XSX while playing FM as well, though it does start to lag in the garage menu after a while, and changing liveries could potentially crash your game the more you switch cars and add more liveries on them. I even got the first endless loading time, which never occurred again.
Overall, I am looking forward to next month's update that takes out car levels (hell, freakin', YES!) Oh, and the Nords is A-MA-ZING!!
I managed to get the Lambo Murcielago SV in time before it disappeared, and it was a workout... I also did a bit of the career mode to unlock the class-based events so that Porsche will soon be mine!
I thankfully also haven't experienced any crashes on my XSX while playing FM as well, though it does start to lag in the garage menu after a while, and changing liveries could potentially crash your game the more you switch cars and add more liveries on them. I even got the first endless loading time, which never occurred again.
Overall, I am looking forward to next month's update that takes out car levels (hell, freakin', YES!) Oh, and the Nords is A-MA-ZING!!
- 5,172
- Alabamistan
I've only done the C class one so far. One of the AI cars in front of me just clattered the barrier twice but kept right on going. If I do that I get stuck in the grass.
On a separate note, in D class it looked like there were a few Mercedes 190E Evo 2 and then some more in C class. Is it a D or C class car. I can't remember what mine is because it's upgraded.
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- 120
- Poland
- Szejok666
Yep, I've tried 0 and 100 on both Nordschleife and Laguna Seca - it doesn't really make a difference, my lap times are similar, maybe 1 second faster at Nurb with rubber set to 100, but it's really hard to tell. I've also tried different time of day, Sunny, Clouded etc. Can't really see any difference in lap times. But I did a little comparison with FM7 using lateral G graph, and my suspicions were correct. Same car at Laguna Seca - lateral G is the same, on Nordschleife is 0,03 - 0,05G lower in FM 2023. Here is the reason for 7 seconds difference per lap time
Interesting find though - at Hockenheim Short (where I'm also 0.8s - 1.0s slower than in FM7), and Daytona G's are also about 0,04G lower - seems like tracks added post-release have lowered grip - maybe someone responsible for that got fired or finished his contract (conclusion after reading recent posts here).Nevertheless, this only shows what a mess is FM 2023 in terms of details. Gosh, I really miss the days of FM4/GT6 or even FM7 - these games weren't perfect, they had many issues, but they felt like someone really cared and took their time in polishing and some sort of "final touch". And in terms of physics, at least they were consistent.
