Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[whannel]

Is this a car we're getting?

 

[RolexGTP]

Looks like one of the '70s F1 cars in game, the Lotus?

 

[-Fred-]

It's the Mclaren, as evidenced by the brand's crest in the lower right corner.

 

[Morbid65]

Im almost losing faith that T10 will fully flesh out the AI to the point where they are near perfect. They are better then release and even 6 months ago but still having issues.

Probably best to give up on that, I think it's a very unreasonable expectation to think they will ever get it "near perfect." There isn't a racing game out there that has what I would even consider "great" AI and despite all the AI advancements that are being made nowadays it doesn't seem like racing game AI has been making much in the way of progress. It hasn't really even been keeping up with the other advancements to the overall racing game "experience" (on a technical level, in-game systems/content, or peripherals) that are being made.

Although it has surely improved if you compared it head to head, I personally don't really find AI any more engaging/believable/immersive now than I did 25 years ago (although surely some of that is because of some combination of rose tinted glasses/revisionist history/suspension of disbelief)... If anything, I find it less engaging as the other areas of the games have stepped up and are more immersive, making it more obvious/irritating when AI are braking for flat corners, coming to a complete stop at turn 1, blatantly ignoring tire wear, divebombing lead lap cars while being lapped, and etc.

Not that the AI in every game is completely awful, but every one of them has some obvious scenarios where they struggle horribly and/or use some "magic" to make up for their lack of ability. Yes, there are some people at certain skill levels that happen to line up with certain difficulty settings to have a decent race, but if it only works for certain narrow skill ranges then I personally don't consider that "great" by any means.

I haven't experienced all of the AI out there as I don't have some titles, the only game that I can think of that I would consider has pretty good AI is Wreckfest, and it's only because the AI there at least matches the spirit of the game and the way humans play the game; some of them are fast-ish and focus on being fast, some focus on being aggressive, some are slow and wobbly, and some just want to watch the world burn.

I tend to forget it a bit as I haven't played an F1 game since... 2017? But I do remember it having fairly believable feeling AI for my very limited play time on it, but with such short time spent maybe I just didn't experience their quirks enough to identify them. I'd assume it has improved a bit since then too though.

 

[AttackDickie]

Can you please mention the exact parameters to see if I can duplicate the conditions? (track, time of day, weather condition and car used).

Brands Hatch, thin haze, (might have been thin haze to clear) Toyota MR2 GT. (Can't remember the time of day, but it wasn't night or evening, maybe morning.)

Im almost losing faith that T10 will fully flesh out the AI to the point where they are near perfect. They are better then release and even 6 months ago but still having issues.

What makes you say that?

Nah, I had the same thought after doing this same race a few times. And this was the cleanest run, where I forced the AI to limit their PI. T10 admitted years ago the drivertar system is flawed. I think the problem is it works too well at reflecting the average Forza multiplayer race.

 

[RolexGTP]

Probably best to give up on that, I think it's a very unreasonable expectation to think they will ever get it "near perfect." There isn't a racing game out there that has what I would even consider "great" AI and despite all the AI advancements that are being made nowadays it doesn't seem like racing game AI has been making much in the way of progress. It hasn't really even been keeping up with the other advancements to the overall racing game "experience" (on a technical level, in-game systems/content, or peripherals) that are being made.

Although it has surely improved if you compared it head to head, I personally don't really find AI any more engaging/believable/immersive now than I did 25 years ago (although surely some of that is because of some combination of rose tinted glasses/revisionist history/suspension of disbelief)... If anything, I find it less engaging as the other areas of the games have stepped up and are more immersive, making it more obvious/irritating when AI are braking for flat corners, coming to a complete stop at turn 1, blatantly ignoring tire wear, divebombing lead lap cars while being lapped, and etc.

Not that the AI in every game is completely awful, but every one of them has some obvious scenarios where they struggle horribly and/or use some "magic" to make up for their lack of ability. Yes, there are some people at certain skill levels that happen to line up with certain difficulty settings to have a decent race, but if it only works for certain narrow skill ranges then I personally don't consider that "great" by any means.

I haven't experienced all of the AI out there as I don't have some titles, the only game that I can think of that I would consider has pretty good AI is Wreckfest, and it's only because the AI there at least matches the spirit of the game and the way humans play the game; some of them are fast-ish and focus on being fast, some focus on being aggressive, some are slow and wobbly, and some just want to watch the world burn.

I tend to forget it a bit as I haven't played an F1 game since... 2017? But I do remember it having fairly believable feeling AI for my very limited play time on it, but with such short time spent maybe I just didn't experience their quirks enough to identify them. I'd assume it has improved a bit since then too though.

I think the AI in PC2 was pretty damn good but then again there was two sliders for AI which one was aggressiveness.

Brands Hatch, thin haze, (might have been thin haze to clear) Toyota MR2 GT. (Can't remember the time of day, but it wasn't night or evening, maybe morning.)

What makes you say that?

View attachment 1405222

Nah, I had the same thought after doing this same race a few times. And this was the cleanest run, where I forced the AI to limit their PI. T10 admitted years ago the drivertar system is flawed. I think the problem is it works too well at reflecting the average Forza multiplayer race.

It seems like since they started "fixing" the AI it's like one step forward and one step back. Soon as they correct one issue another one pops up. You can see the improvements in them since the game released but then after multiple updates issues like brake checking and random early race pileups still occur and both of which is something they addressed. I'm thinking something in their AI coding is not ironed out still, idk maybe early 2025 they will get the AI where they want it but for now there's still some repetitive issues.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Yeah, the loading times are a pain..

View attachment 1404531

On a serious note, the graphics in RT performance suffer when you add weather effects.
Did a foggy race and the car's spoiler had jaggies in chase cam, the driver's leg had jaggies in the cockpit view and the dash had artifacts/shimmering in the driver view. Thought it might be due to an old car model but that all went away in performance mode.

After trying to reproduce those conditions, I do agree that performance mode produces the sharper look, but personally I don't want to get back. I did not spot jaggies in chase cam, but I did catch the artifacts/shimmering in cockpit view, which are just ray-tracing noise because there are no sufficient rays to form a cohesive image on those surfaces, and it also happens on PC unfortunately, but is less pronounced than before.

 

[Nacho Libre]

Well, I found this video of Chris Esaki from about one year ago, certainly not to open old wounds, but to reflect on the progress of the game so far.

The AI system he discusses, from 6:36 I don't think we ever got to see it and they had to resort to a default system due to undisclosed issues... Maybe it got sentient, who knows? And the graphics/lighting looked so flat in the video (I know, its YouTube) but now the difference is really striking.

Lastly, I do want to give him some deserved props. He promised the game would evolve with the community over time and it has, and corrections have been made. The driving is great (assists off, simulation steering, please try it), and yeah, we can fall in love with our cars. So, wherever you are, Mr. Esaki, here's to you.