- 785
- meagainstyou GTP_MeAgainstYou PureGT_MAY
Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.
- Thread starter blademask
- 2,433 comments
- 237,436 views
- Status
- 179
- ThreeAxis
I never noticed that before. O_O
Dug this up out of the front page archives. Regardless of the critique by Proper Graphics, Polyphony Digital seems to have taken the proper approach to constructing the wireframe to bring out the greatest level of detail.
So far, I haven't seen any mesh details from Turn10. If someone's willing to post some pics.
Isn't the industry at the point where switching LODs can be a gradual transition as opposed to them popping up in a blink?
Dug this up out of the front page archives. Regardless of the critique by Proper Graphics, Polyphony Digital seems to have taken the proper approach to constructing the wireframe to bring out the greatest level of detail.
So far, I haven't seen any mesh details from Turn10. If someone's willing to post some pics.
Isn't the industry at the point where switching LODs can be a gradual transition as opposed to them popping up in a blink?
Last edited:
- 713
- UK
I never noticed that before. O_O
Dug this up out of the front page archives. Regardless of the critique by Proper Graphics, Polyphony Digital seems to have taken the proper approach to constructing the wireframe to bring out the greatest level of detail.
So far, I haven't seen any mesh details from Turn10. If someone's willing to post some pics.
I don't think T10 would relase them..
I suspect that they do have reasonably high poly counts, but I am not convinced they are anywhere near as proficient at modelling as PD are.
I hope they keep improving, FM3 looks to be a big upgrade from FM3 with regards to models, I suspect it's gonna take them a couple more iterations before they start becoming near GT5p's level, not that it's a terrible thing, as long as their game is OK whilst playing I think they can get away with it, but zoomed in and critiqued, no way!..
There is a wheel on the market for the 360 that is as good as the G25 in fact it could be better than the logitech wheel.
Have a look at this.
http://www.fanatec.de/webshop/new_eu/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=61&session=true
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
I think that the F40 shoot has an image quality problem with filtering and aliasing(at 1080 look better) not a LOD problem.
About FM3 we only need more direct feed gameplay vids or pictures and a newer build, if the closeups suffer from the same then there is no excuse.
Sorry not my shoots:
http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/cc169/akirozz/?start=all
More examples:
http://imagehost.es/files/50375.jpeg
http://imagehost.es/files/50381.jpeg
http://imagehost.es/files/50385.jpeg
- 906
Just to point out that the word "definitive" was used in a sense that the trailer that they showed was the definitive Forza 3 trailer. I don't believe that they said that it was the definitive racing game.
*BTW, I quoted you because you were the last to make a comment of that nature. It doesn't mean I'm singling you out...
d3br34k5
Premium
- 445
- Canada
- GTP_d3br34k5
No, Turn 10 has called Forza 3 "...the definitive racing game..."
They did not say, "The definitive trailer for our game."
Google "The definitive racing game".
It very well could be a great game, but I personally think it's a load of leavings to suggest there's anything 'definitive' yet.
They did not say, "The definitive trailer for our game."
Google "The definitive racing game".
It very well could be a great game, but I personally think it's a load of leavings to suggest there's anything 'definitive' yet.
- 906
^ Ok, so I was wrong. Turn 10 has some brass ones to say that.
Speaking of tyres - what's up with the tyres in all the GT5
having WAY too much (too deep) tread, and you being able to see the tyre tread as if it were not moving, even when the ccar is doing 180. I hope they fix this before the game ships to my door!
P.S. 'MeAgainstYou' GT5 does not/will not model tyre deformation anywhere near Forza III, as far as we know. The key is 'as far as we know', because PD often keep things quiet then reveal their hand at the last minute, rather than Turn 10 who seem to blow all their tricks at once. Still, it's only a possibility that it will be in at all, which is to say that it's unlikely GT5 will be able to rival Forza III in the area of handling & physics.
having WAY too much (too deep) tread, and you being able to see the tyre tread as if it were not moving, even when the ccar is doing 180. I hope they fix this before the game ships to my door!P.S. 'MeAgainstYou' GT5 does not/will not model tyre deformation anywhere near Forza III, as far as we know. The key is 'as far as we know', because PD often keep things quiet then reveal their hand at the last minute, rather than Turn 10 who seem to blow all their tricks at once. Still, it's only a possibility that it will be in at all, which is to say that it's unlikely GT5 will be able to rival Forza III in the area of handling & physics.
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
Speaking of tyres - what's up with the tyres in all the GT5
This is because when you take a screenie it shows just 1 still frame like having the shutter on a camera really high, but the reason the wheels still appear to be spinning is because once the wheels reach a certain speed the game switches to some other high speed model which makes the wheels appear to be spinning fast even when you take a screenie of a single rendered frame. Most games with 3D wheels do this otherwise the wheels spin rate conflicts with the screen refresh rate. To fix it they could do the same with the tyres. In photomode this can't happen (due to shutter speed options) so it will be fixed atleast for that.
Saying that, in motion the parallel (parallel with tyre rotation) water channels in the tyre will always be clear for obvious reasons.
If you/we don't know, then you can't say "GT5 does not/will not model tyre deformation anywhere near Forza III" at all even if you do add the 'as far as we know' at the end. Just the same we can't say it does model it anywhere near either
- 23,800
- Philippines
Funny... we've always been able to see the middle grooves on the tire when they were spinning on the dyno or on the balancing machine. Are they supposed to disappear and default to a low-detail model once God decides that he doesn't want to calculate such a complex shape spinning at high rpm? 
Tire deformation, to me, cosmetically, would be nice, but unnecessary... though the advances in state-of-the-art in graphics in all the competition would definitely require it.
As for its modelling in terms of car-dynamics... well... I'd love for them to put it in, and there are a lot of us hoping it will be so.
It's no worse a claim than calling your game "The REAL Driving Simulator".
Tire deformation, to me, cosmetically, would be nice, but unnecessary... though the advances in state-of-the-art in graphics in all the competition would definitely require it.
As for its modelling in terms of car-dynamics... well... I'd love for them to put it in, and there are a lot of us hoping it will be so.
It's no worse a claim than calling your game "The REAL Driving Simulator".
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
It's only a graphic gimmick like the functional aero parts and spoilers, handling and physics have nothing to do with that. All the work is done internally by the physics engine and can be indifferently represented or not.
GTR2 does not have visual tire deformation, do you think FM3 will have more advanced handling and physics than GTR2? or that his physics engine do not calculate these parameters when you play?
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,063
- N Ireland
This is how i see it also.
Dan Greenawood makes a big thing from the visual aspect and tries to form an impression that FM3 physics are so advanced over nothing like weve seen before. Im not getting into a VS discussion here on GT Vs FM but their PR stinks loads of up their own backsides.
Its a bit like the rolling damage, in a physics/damage sense its nothing close to reality (not from videos ive seen anyways) but its sold to gamers as a "WOW WEE" feature which is designed to visually look good make the game seem more exciting as a point to further sell the game.
Last edited:
- 818
I dont believe GTR2 has terribly complicated tire physics, not like LFS where it models deformation, flat spots and wear in such detail.
Isn't NFS shift going to model tire deformation too?
Tire deformation is important to tire simulation assuming its done properly, so if I'd taken the time and effort to model it, I'd probably market it too. Its in the deformation that a tire actually stores the energy required to generate the force which we interpret as "grip". The tire is its own little system, its basically like its own little suspension system (spring, mass and damper) which is dependant on so many extra factors.
- 24
- ae86bamber
watched the video the other night, & i was pretty impressed with the new forza to be honest. whether its as good as, better or worse than gt5 i was impressed either way! i really enjoyed the old forza 2 for playability, the only thing that used to drive me mad was the fact you barely had any steering lock and would spin the second you tried to get decent angle during a drift. so i hope they have resolved this for the new one.
a simple question though, and apologies if it has already been asked. but can the G25 be used with an xbox? i remember my old xbox have a usb port in the front of the console, so i wondered if you can run a g25 with it?
got rid of my old xbox when it broke and microsoft wouldn't repair/replace it. but i am contemplating getting another aswell as the ps3 if the g25 works with it for some forza antics while i wait for gt5!
a simple question though, and apologies if it has already been asked. but can the G25 be used with an xbox? i remember my old xbox have a usb port in the front of the console, so i wondered if you can run a g25 with it?
got rid of my old xbox when it broke and microsoft wouldn't repair/replace it. but i am contemplating getting another aswell as the ps3 if the g25 works with it for some forza antics while i wait for gt5!
- 24
- ae86bamber
SatansReverence
(Banned)
- 76
GT5 has that aswell.
look at the rear tire
There must be alot of load on that car while it is stationary in the pits because it is modelled like it is deformed in both shots.
SatansReverence
(Banned)
- 76
Actually, tire deformation modelling plays a big part in the physics.
Without it you cannot correctly calculate the contact patch or the load on the tires.
Also, camber without tire deformation means nothing because you only want high camber to maintain the contact patch though corners. This was one of the problems with Forza 2 where increasing camber on circuits decreased grip because you had a lesser amount of rubber on the road.
I think what zer0 means is, forza is only showing off the visual factor of tyre deformation and making a big bruhaha about it, while many game have had it alredy internally in their physics engine without having the visual effect on the tyres.
Just because PD hasn't made a trailer showing off their tyres compressing doesnt mean their physics engine doesnt counter in these factors as we all know that PD hasnt even started giving us any of the features of gt5 let alone telling us how they made their physics engine. tyre deformation wasnt a big deal when other games had it but since forza is showing it off all of a sudden everyone hails it as the new feature to have. its just a marketing gimmick imo.
- 25
I am a bit saddened by the arguments. I've been a diehard GT fan since 1997, and actually BEFORE it came out when it was a tiny article in a Game Informer magazine.
However...this generation, I took the plunge for the 360 for many other games I wanted to play. I felt that spending $400-$500 on a machine to play one $60 game that would come out in 3 years was madness.
I've played Forza 2 a bit, and basically feels a little like a HD version of GT4, but with less class. I always enjoyed the lounge feel, and pure presentation of the GT series. I feel like when I play Forza, I popped a Monster energy drink with a Corona, did a line of coke, then did a burnout going to a Nickleback concert.
After saying this, I'll admit I'm excited to truly give Forza 3 a try. This is my first big attempt to play the "other" franchise. I think 360 without a doubt has the online sector down. GT trumps F3 on graphics though, as well as presentation from what I've seen.
We'll see what happens. I love GT, and always will (especially the new Top Gear track that's coming...yarrrrrrgh!!), but will give Forza 3 a go this Fall.
w00t
However...this generation, I took the plunge for the 360 for many other games I wanted to play. I felt that spending $400-$500 on a machine to play one $60 game that would come out in 3 years was madness.
I've played Forza 2 a bit, and basically feels a little like a HD version of GT4, but with less class. I always enjoyed the lounge feel, and pure presentation of the GT series. I feel like when I play Forza, I popped a Monster energy drink with a Corona, did a line of coke, then did a burnout going to a Nickleback concert.
After saying this, I'll admit I'm excited to truly give Forza 3 a try. This is my first big attempt to play the "other" franchise. I think 360 without a doubt has the online sector down. GT trumps F3 on graphics though, as well as presentation from what I've seen.
We'll see what happens. I love GT, and always will (especially the new Top Gear track that's coming...yarrrrrrgh!!), but will give Forza 3 a go this Fall.
w00t
SatansReverence
(Banned)
- 76
- 20,145
- Australia
- VIPERGTS01
Richard burns rally had it (visual and physical) years ago (on console too) nothing new at all.
SatansReverence
(Banned)
- 76
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,729
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
RBR didn't have visual tyre deformation, however as it only ever needed to model a single car at any time the vast majority of its resources went on the physics engine (which still to this day is one of the best ever on a console).
The inner working of the physics engine was the same on all platforms and did feature tyre deformation, hell its been hacked and edited to death on the PC version of the game.
Regards
Scaff
- Status
Similar threads
