Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

  • Thread starter Famine
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Do you think it could beat the Amuse S2000 GT1 '04? If so, there is a lineup where that's the fastest car.
Hard to say. I haven't tested the tyre economy but I know the Alfa uses only 6.5L per lap, which is incredible. I reckon on a 6 or maybe even 7 Lap stint compared to the S2000's 6 Lap stint it might just win, but it'd be seriously close and you'd need a very good driver. That said I think I was ahead of the GT1 most of the time (he was about 9/10th and I was averaging 8th or 7th). Give it a go, I'd love to see the Alfa beat the S2000.
 
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As far as I know it's quite impossible to win with those laptimes. I drove 9:05-ish laptimes with 410PP and I've been trying to get the same laptimes with only 400PP (various cars) and the best I can do is about 9:15 with 400PP, which is simply too slow. 9:15 isn't bad, but you have to think about tyre wear which only adds expensive seconds to your laptimes.. plus the occasional lack of consistency/concentration.

Life is tough man :sly:
 
Just won the Stratos, but after some testing, I found it to be too slow. Still one of my favourite ever cars though. :)
 
Okay, I've just found out the RUF BTR-R uses around 15L of fuel a lap and uses up it's rear tyres completely in just 3 Laps, meaning 2 Lap pit sequences. Despite being capable of 8:43 laptimes on fresh tyres I doubt I'd win this one. Back to the drawing board it is then. :(
 
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I'd just like to say I got lineup 1 in this race after doing some settings changes with my RUF as well as doing Practice on the Ring. Presumably the lineup only changes if you do a race, as practice mode doesn't seem to affect the lineup.

P.S. Sorry for 4 posts in a row, I would edit it into one post, but I can't find out how to delete posts.
 
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bonobo4
Okay, I've just found out the RUF BTR-R uses around 15L of fuel a lap and uses up it's rear tyres completely in just 3 Laps, meaning 2 Lap pit sequences. Despite being capable of 8:43 laptimes on fresh tyres I doubt I'd win this one. Back to the drawing board it is then. :(

I started using TCS 1 or 2 just to make life a bit easier and get that last bit of extra life out if the tyres to get a decent pit in lap.

This race is as much about smooth driving as decent lap times so I encourage you to take corner exits a bit easier and aim more for consistent lap times +/- 10 seconds each. It's fun, too ;)

Edit: I just took another look at the grids, and I'd say grid 1 and 9 are the best so far because they got the most cars putting in similar laptimes:


Lineup 1
1. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V.spec N1 base '00 - White
2. 2007 HPA Motorsports FT565 twin turbo Audi TT
3. Amuse S2000 GT1 '04 - Grand Prix White
4. Nismo 270R '94 - Black Pearl Metallic
5. HPA Motorsports Stage II R32
6. HKS CT230R '08
7. (player)
8. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune '99 - Active Red
9. Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03 - Diamond Silver Metallic
10. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06 - White Pearl (3P)
11. Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
12. Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera - White Pearl (3P)

Lineup 9
1. 2007 HPA Motorsports FT565 twin turbo Audi TT
2. RE Amemiya FD3S RX-7
3. Opera Performance 350Z '04
4. HKS CT230R '08
5. Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03 - Diamond Silver Metallic
6. RUF CTR2 '96
7. (player)
8. Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99 - Active Red
9. Amuse Nismo 380RS Super Leggera - White Pearl (3P)
10. Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS - Dark Blue (P)
11. AEM S2000
12. Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06 - White Pearl (3P)

For grid 1 that's

HKS CT230R '08
HPA FT565 Twin Turbo Audi TT
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06

in the 9:17,69 to 09:21,54 range and

for grid 9 that's

Ruf CTR2 '96
HKS CT230R '08
HPA FT565 Twin Turbo Audi TT
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00

in the 09:15,69 to 09:20,77 range and it has the Ruf CTR2 in it along with some competition.

All other grids have a rabbit which is much faster than the competition, so no real alternative to grid 1 and/or 9.

Only the

Audi R8 LMS Race Car '09
Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo

are a match for each other so it would be a good idea to look for a grid where both are at the start.

Edit 2:

Although I screwed up and lost one line up, grid 20 should feature both the GT1 Turbo and the Audi LMS. Save for 1 line up either the LMS or the GR1 Turbo was present on grid 11-19.

So for all of you who want a fast challenge you have a lot of cycling to do.

As has been mentioned by Famine every action that causes an auto-save will count as one cycle in the line up.
 
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First things first what a great help this thread was to me . Just finished my first 4 hour race with my gsx slightly over tuned as I won by 7 minutes plus I think ill try it with slightly less power as it was a lonley race after the first couple of laps
 
First off, I want to sound my appreciation for this thread and the amount of information that has been gathered and the very interesting race reports in it.

I've been wanting to do this race for a while and even had some attempts at it. I'm all for competitive racing, but I honestly don't know where I stand. I reckon myself a fairly good driver. Not pretty good, not very good and not awesome, just fairly good and consistent... on a normal track. But this is Nürburgring, and while I am fairly familiar with it, it's just so different to any other track. Due to the sheer length, no two laps will be quite the same since your tires will never be at quite the same from one lap to the next, and you have to adjust your driving every lap.

My first attempt was in a stock BMW M5 '09. Playing it safe at 509 PP, it should do the trick, but at the end of the day, I had to realise it was too much to handle. It's a very sideways car and that just won't work here.

So next up was a Honda Integra (DC5). Not RM or anything, just well tuned to around 500PP. It's so very easy to handle, but that's not always a good thing. That means I drive a bit too aggressively and being an FF car, it just munches through the front tires like a piranha through a human in any silly cartoon.
While I could keep going 9:06 laps (which should be right where it's at), the tires were shot after 4 laps, and trying to do a 5th ended in an 11 minute lap. That just won't cut it.

So fast forward to today. I'd thought about using the Amuse Nismo 380, but it at 525PP it was too powerful, and I had to look for something else.
The NSX could probably do it at the stock 470ish PP, but while I adore the car, I've driven it to death and wanted something else.
The Evora might be able to pull it off, but I'd have to tune it quite a lot, as especially the transmission etc. really makes it go slower than it should.

So I ended up taking an Elise 111R (not RM), which has been tuned to RKM's Juliet specifications, except I took a couple of power modifications off to put it at 490PP. Having had no end of trouble with the Elise over the course of time, it finally clicked a month ago with the Juliet tune and setting my DFGT FFB strength to 10. This thing just corners like nothing I've ever driven.

Getting the first reset lineup, I knew I had to run those 9:06 to stay competitive, but I honestly couldn't remember what the car felt like, other than it being insane through corners. It was quickly apparent that I might've fiddled with the LSD or my memory isn't quite as good as I thought, because the thing just doesn't like trailbraking. Anything above 20% brake pressure and the wheels lock up and cause a spin. And while the tune is excellent, it might not be the best for the 'ring due to the low ride height and stiff suspension. It can get very bumpy at times.

But on to the race:

Lap #1 9:49.something:
I quickly drop to tenth off the mark, but sneak back up to 5th in the first corner. I drop a couple of places between Hocheichen and Metzgesfeld, but still it's looking good as I get increasingly more familiar with my chosen companion. Then... disaster. Around Kesselchen I've just not picked up enough speed and the cars behind me show up and decide to throw caution to the wind, and me into consecutive spins and crashes. Not once, not twice but three times in a row do I get rammed by passing cars just as I think I've regained control. Dropping to 10th and being miles behind everyone I curse my luck and keep pushing.

Lap #2 9:06.and a bit:
I see no traffic doing a lap where I feel I've gotten to to grips with the Elise. It's still bumpy, but feathering the brake I can zip through the corners. I find that I can really push it between the Karoussel and Galgenkopf, like no other car I've driven here. It really is fantastic. There is a corner around Brünnchen which can get hairy due to the car lifting off. Need to remember to take it easy!

Lap #3 8:55.101:
I keep pushing, the car feels fantastic. Between Pflanzgarten and Galgenkopf I catch up with the #9 Skyline of some kind (it's red!), but decide not to pass it since we're so close to Döttinger Höhe. An excellent strategy as I catch a proper draft and zoom through the straight at a massive 266km/h! The Elise really has issues getting speed in 6th gear, so getting a draft cuts a lot of time off the lap. Tires are fine and it doesn't really use a lot of fuel.

Lap #4 9:06.926:
Pretty uneventful. Car still feels good, tires are doing fine and everything's just dandy.

Lap #5 9:21.844:
Ok, perhaps the tires weren't completely fine. They're mostly fine, but this is where you know you're not driving a normal track. I fail to adjust to slightly decreased thread and coupled with the massive lock under braking, I have a little accident around Hatzenbach. The red Skyline catches up and overtakes. I quickly overtake him back and manage to keep him behind me through Kesselchen and put a lot of distance to him on the last half. Despite my early crash, the car felt good and both tires and fuel are above half, so I decide to stay out.

Lap #6 9:11.175:
I pass most of the field on the pit straight and go into the first corner placed 4th. The first half of the lap is quite uneventful, the car is still surprisingly fast through the corners, even now.
I catch up with the Amuse Nismo 380 in 3rd just after Karoussel, and decide to pass him since Döttinger Höhe is still a long way away.
Again I do overestimate a bit and have a few botanical excursions between Karoussel and Galgenkopf, but no spins or crashes. I decide I've adjusted and keep at it since both tires and fuel are now around half. A 7th lap should be doable! Also, time for a break for a smoke and this writeup.

Lap #7 9:20.276:
I'm apparently 1st with a lead of a whopping 1.9s to the HPA Audi TT. He's a lot faster than me, but I somehow manage to keep him behind for a good while. Eventually I push it a bit too much, have a minor spin and he passes. Oh well. I pit at the end of the lap. Have used just 46L of fuel and my tires are probably around 40%. It wasn't urgent, but I might as well. I've far surpassed my expections for tire durability already.

Lap #8 9:30.126:
I exit the pits at around 7th, watching the Amuse S2000 GT1 blow past me followed by the HKS CT230R. I catch the HKS quickly and we have a bit of back and forth battle before I finally leave him standing. The S2000 is long gone though. A nice solid lap, I readjust to having good tires again and push it nicely.

Lap #9 9:10.753:
I catch up with the Nismo 380RS shortly after Karoussel. He's really slow. But he's also wide, so it takes a bit of time to get past him. Otherwise uneventful, I feel I've settled in nicely now.

Lap #10 9:04.421:
Yup, now we're racing. Nothing but me, the track and a bunch of trees. Just plain steady.

Lap #11 (missed time):
I found myself climbing up the ladder. 3rd place and I decide to push it. A bit too much too and I run off in a couple of spots, though nothing serious.

Lap #12 9:20.365:
I still decide to push it. I'm really fast through the course, but I keep running off in spots, and never the same. It's hard to know where to push it and where not. Perhaps I've lost a bit of concentration too. I have a nasty spin at Adenauer-Forst. But something's odd. I'm 2nd and at the start of the lap I was 12s down. But after my spin I'm only 7s behind. I wonder what the HPA Audi TT can be up to. He should have fresh tires, so something's off.
Turns out he does have fresh tires, because it's not him in the lead. It's the Amuse S2000 with completely shot tires as I find about half a minute later as I steam past him. Another 30s on and I have a 12s lead, so he's spun again.
As I get to the end of Döttinger Höhe my lead's at 13s.

Lap #13 9:10.114:
Well, it seems now that my pit strategy is making up for my somewhat flaky driving. The HPA Audi TT catches up to me at Hatzenbach, but I manage to keep him behind me until Kesselchen. And then I overtake him again at Eschbach. And then we play cat and mouse. Obviously he's gone by the time the lap's over, but he's not actually that far ahead.

Lap #14 9.11.978:
We keep the cat and mouse game up. I catch him at Flugplatz and actually manage to rush past him. But at Kallenhard I push too hard and end up spinning and he runs away. But even now, on my last lap on these tires, I can push. So I do. And I catch him at Brünnchen, go past and wait for him to catch up so I can catch some draft. I pit about 5s behind him though it got a bit scary around Tiergarten.

Lap #15 (missed time again):
Apparently I forgot to get the time for this, but it was around 9:30ish. Didn't take much fuel and came out no. 5. Was a pretty clean lap.

Lap #16 8:57.345:
Finally started to show some consistency. As I got to the first corner, I suddenly found myself leading the race around 25s ahead. As I did a near perfect lap, that meant a 40s lead by the time I hit Döttinger Höhe and 37s by the time I got to the finish line. Since I kept pulling away, even with a great lap, I can only surmise it wasn't the HPA Audi TT in 2nd.
An all around great lap, and definately the fastest without drafting. Not a single error, just really fast through it all on warm tires.

Lap #17 9:00.123:
First split time showed a 1:20s lead, which meant that whoever was in 2nd had pitted. It was now plainly obvious that the 7 stop strategy had already won me the race. The lead shrunk a bit by the end, so it made sense it was now the TT back in 2nd.

Lap #18 9:07.640:
Minor runoffs due to loss of concentration, but otherwise uneventful. From here on it's just about getting home safe.

Lap #19 9:20.662:
Lead's down to below 1 minute, but there's no need to worry. The pursuers should still have two stops to go and me just 1. Made a mess at Flugplatz through a combination of loss of tire thread and concentration.

Lap #20 9:08.707:
About as good a lap as one can expect as tires wear out once again. Overall uneventful, feels a lot like a time attack by now. Didn't pay attention to how much I was leading.

Lap #21: 9:18.379:
I get a bit philosphical as I cruise around on the last lap before it's time to pit and take a break. It's pretty apparent that on this 3rd stint I'm a lot more consistent than earlier. There are still mistakes, but I feel a lot of them are due to the car jumping too much and locking under braking. You really have to be careful with this car. But at least it doesn't have power oversteer.
1:17.5 ahead.

Lap #22 10:03.831:
The only long pitstop. Nearly out of fuel, I take on 50L. I should only need about 38L, but in case I'm fast and get to do 7 more laps rather than 6, I decide to play it safe.
I'm 10.3s ahead at the first split still, and drive a good lap.

Lap #23 9:02.232:
Another good lap, put a few more seconds between myself and the 2nd placed HPA Audi TT.

Lap #24 8:59.231:
Just keep getting better. Very solid and the lead is up to 20s. But I know the HPA still has one more stop to go.

Lap #25, 26, 27:
Forgetting the race ends immediately as I pass the line after the 4 hours, I don't take note of times. Lap 25 is good too, but I make a mistake after Hatzenbach (damn you brakes!) on lap 26 and lose 10s, making the lead just 11s.
After lap 26 the HPA Audi TT pits and leaves me with a lead of 1:30.
I'm faster on the last lap than I expected. I was planning to hit 4 hours coming out of Döttinger Höhe, but I'm running a sub 9 minute lap and decide to ease my way towards the finish line because I'm lazy. And errr yeah, it was parade driving. Right! Last lap is done in 9:01.102 as I manage to glance before a nice leaderboard shows up, followed by a bit of cash and a lot of experience.

And a lot of experience it was. You can drive the 'ring ever so many times, but doing it 4 hours straight just gives you a completely different feel for it. It's obvious I was far, far, far more stable in the last half of the race compared to the first, and I want to chalk off most of my mistakes in the 2nd half to the stiff ride and the weird brakes.
It's also painfully obvious that the impromptu 7 stop strategy won me the race. I had no idea it could go that long before needing new tires, though I had a feeling it might be very fuel efficient with the little 2L engine. That also means that I'm not sure what to do next time. I don't mind losing the race if it gives me some good competition, but other candidates at lower PP would likely suck more juice.
I reckon I'm more stable now than before, at least I should be. But just how much and just how often will I need to pit in a different car?
 
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I'm thinking to attempt the race on the weekend, still can't decide which car should I use, here are the nominations, nismo 380 rs, audi r8 v10, audi r8 lms, mazda furai, mercedes SLS, Lexus LFA. I wonder if those car are overkill or something since I'm not so good at driving at the ring so I thought if I can win this race I would much much more familiar with the track. Should I practice on the ring 1st or just give it a try?
 
I'm thinking to attempt the race on the weekend, still can't decide which car should I use, here are the nominations, nismo 380 rs, audi r8 v10, audi r8 lms, mazda furai, mercedes SLS, Lexus LFA.

Really over-kill.

Try out something with a little more challenge; a RM Honda Civic perhaps on RM tyres. That should give you a good race and still leave you plenty of competition.
 
I'm thinking to attempt the race on the weekend, still can't decide which car should I use, here are the nominations, nismo 380 rs, audi r8 v10, audi r8 lms, mazda furai, mercedes SLS, Lexus LFA. I wonder if those car are overkill or something since I'm not so good at driving at the ring so I thought if I can win this race I would much much more familiar with the track. Should I practice on the ring 1st or just give it a try?

Welcome aboard dr3w!

Any of the cars you mention are capable of winning this race, so it does depend upon how good a driver you are, and how close you wish the race to be.

Pick one of the cars that you mention, install RH tires and run a couple of laps at the 'Ring. If you can lap the 'Ring in less than 9 minutes, your car is too strong (unless you want to go against the two rabbits in the field). So you can down-grade the tires or use the engine slider to take away some horsepower (or pick another car). If it takes about 9 minutes and 10 seconds to lap the 'Ring, then the car is just about right. If it takes more than 9 minutes and 25 seconds to lap the 'Ring, then the car may be just a little slow, so maybe you should add some horsepower or purchase a set of RM tires to use during a pit stop if necessary.

Good luck!
GTsail
 
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Welcome aboard dr3w!

Any of the cars you mention are capable of winning this race, so it does depend upon how good a driver you are, and how close you wish the race to be.

Pick one of the cars that you mention, install RH tires and run a couple of laps at the 'Ring. If you can lap the 'Ring in less than 9 minutes, your car is too strong (unless you want to go against the two rabbits in the field). So you can down-grade the tires or use the engine slider to take away some horsepower (or pick another car). If it takes about 9 minutes and 10 seconds to lap the 'Ring, then the car is just about right. If it takes more than 9 minutes and 25 seconds to lap the 'Ring, then the car may be just a little slow, so maybe you should add some horsepower or purchase a set of RM tires to use during a pit stop if necessary.

Good luck!
GTsail

Thanks for the reply, by less than 9 mins, do you mean in a practice lap or in the race with other cars? it would make abit of difference, wouldn't it?
I'm not too familiar with the ring yet plus I just switched to wheel from ds3 just about 1 week ago, this is going to be abit tough but challenging.
Anyway less powerful car = tires worn out slower = use less fuel right ?
but in a 26km track I think it wouldn't matter much?
 
Anyway less powerful car = tires worn out slower = use less fuel right ?
but in a 26km track I think it wouldn't matter much?

You'd be surprised, I ran it with the C3 AMG and one pit stop more than the others (albeit mistimed) caused me to finish mid pack.

A slower car is definitely more fun and, as you mention, easier on tyres providing it doesn't drift every corner.

I wouldn't worry too much about fuel as the tyres would be a more important factor.

As mentioned before, running consistent laps of around 9:00 should see you being competitive.
 
....by less than 9 mins, do you mean in a practice lap or in the race with other cars? it would make abit of difference, wouldn't it?
I'm not too familiar with the ring yet plus I just switched to wheel from ds3 just about 1 week ago, this is going to be abit tough but challenging.
Anyway less powerful car = tires worn out slower = use less fuel right ?
but in a 26km track I think it wouldn't matter much?

The Practice Mode is better because its easier to run clean laps without AI interference, however, I often just enter the race and test my cars against the virtual competition, so its really up to you.

Yes, cars with more horsepower and weight generally use more fuel and wear out their tires quicker. The difference can be as much as one full lap at the 'Ring during a fuel stint.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Thanks for the reply, by less than 9 mins, do you mean in a practice lap or in the race with other cars? it would make abit of difference, wouldn't it?
I'm not too familiar with the ring yet plus I just switched to wheel from ds3 just about 1 week ago, this is going to be abit tough but challenging.
Anyway less powerful car = tires worn out slower = use less fuel right ?
but in a 26km track I think it wouldn't matter much?

Weight is a big factor in tire wear and fuel consumption also. I've done this race twice in the GSXR4 and tires and fuel both last forever. Well, much longer than the AI anyway.

I only used half a tank of gas in 7 laps and just a little over half the tires. 10 laps on tires would not be out of the question but the last 2 probably wouldn't be much fun.
 
Weight is a big factor in tire wear and fuel consumption also. I've done this race twice in the GSXR4 and tires and fuel both last forever. Well, much longer than the AI anyway.

I only used half a tank of gas in 7 laps and just a little over half the tires. 10 laps on tires would not be out of the question but the last 2 probably wouldn't be much fun.

What is the time margin between you and 2nd place if I may ask?
 

That's interesting, winning with a low powered car, but you probably are a much better driver than me. I tried a test run with a stock standard SLS and I just couldn't stand to see the leader keep increasing the time gap so I'll probably use my tuned R8 around 600PP, won't be doing it this weekend, maybe next weekend, been grinding seasonal to buy all the LMP cars in OCD. Next week we'll all have mid race save which would be really nice too
 
Can't decide on the next car I'll attempt this with. It'll either be:
Top Performance Tuning's Caterham Seven Fireblade '02 (253BHP/369kg) with RS Tyres, averaging 9:00 flying laps.
RUF CTR "YellowBird" (not tested as I don't yet own one, still waiting. :grumpy:)
Some kind of Tuned ~200BHP, 410PP car, hopefully breaking or near breaking a thread record.
An overkill car with Comfort Mediums, with as little BHP/weight/PP as possible, to break the tyre record.

In other words, I'm looking for a car that can either break a record or give an interesting race/drive for 4 Hours. Any ideas?
 
I did a couple of test laps yesterday in the GSXR4 and I feel like the grip is increased in spec 2. Especially in the rear. On turns where the car was loose before it just sticks now. My lap times were quick too.

Any other impressions? Is this going to make the old records "easy" to break?
 
s2k2k3
I did a couple of test laps yesterday in the GSXR4 and I feel like the grip is increased in spec 2. Especially in the rear. On turns where the car was loose before it just sticks now. My lap times were quick too.

Any other impressions? Is this going to make the old records "easy" to break?

Kerbs harder to ride, green stuff more slippery. That's my first basic impressions anyway. Strong stuff so far.

Line-ups seem to be the same as far as I can tell. Boy oh boy are we going to have some fun :)
 
Took my 'blade out to the 'ring and boy oh boy was it fun. The new cockpit view makes it easier to see and feel drifts. And the greater range of slip angles and controller input makes it much easier to stay on track without making it easier to beat my old best times. The vehicle is much more consist.
 
I'm going to give it another crack today, albeit using the save feature( :scared: ) to see whether it's more fun to do it in one sitting or in 1 hour parts. I shall post updates here each hour while I smoke. :)

I think we all know the answer though.
 
I did a couple of test laps yesterday in the GSXR4 and I feel like the grip is increased in spec 2. Especially in the rear. On turns where the car was loose before it just sticks now. My lap times were quick too.

Any other impressions? Is this going to make the old records "easy" to break?

It depends if the AI find it better too - and they're allegedly smarter...

I've just tested a FWD 430PP car to 9'10 laps. I've changed the oil and put on a zorst so I don't have to listen to a wheezy, turbo four pot for four hours and scaled it back to 444PP and 229hp with a 95% power limiter (I won't go any further than 95% personally, as it changes the engine characteristics too much) - on 100% without the zorst it's 229hp and 442PP, so it's close enough.

So now I'm going to hit the track and trial my no-rabbit AI grid :D

Edit: Great Xenu, the new track preview/grid screen is gorgeous!

Edit edit: They may have changed the grids... My all-yellow grid isn't showing up and neither's my no-rabbit one... Harumph.

Edit edit edit: Found a no-rabbit grid. I'm just gone an hour in with exactly this much lead:

narrowlead.jpg
 
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Edit edit: They may have changed the grids... My all-yellow grid isn't showing up and neither's my no-rabbit one... Harumph.

Darn. Looks like I'll be researching some more then...so it wasn't the 1st grid I had down that came first?
 
The first line-up (and subsequent ones, by exiting and reentering) is still there, just the others are different and getting them is different.

Simply going and changing your car's settings used to generate a new first line-up - it doesn't now, you still get the original one. Changing cars doesn't do it either. Nor does loading a track and not driving it. Actually taking to the track generates a new set of line-ups, but it's not the same one as before. I used to start the game, enter car settings and then do 13 entries to the N4 to get a no-rabbit grid (a grid full of yellow and orange cars - GT1 Turbo, Option Z, HPA TT, CTR2, CTR Yellowbird, Nismo 400R - would turn up on the seventh reentry). No more :(

But I have found a new no-rabbit grid :D
 
Based on the old lap times, this is a quick overview of worth while line-ups:
Line-up number - fastest car - number of cars within approximately 2-3 seconds
1 - CT230R - 6
9 - CTR2 - 4
17 - CTR2 - 5
19 - S2000 GT1 Turbo and R8 LMS
22 - see 19, both starting from the very back
23 - FT 565 Audi TT - 5

Grid 24 and 25 got nothing exciting and after that I stopped :)

Curious how laptimes have changed and if the AI ranking stayed the same.
 
I just finished my race. I won. By less than TWO SECONDS. That's a margin of 0.01% of the race...

Write-up to follow...

(quick note - the Mine's Skyline was at -7s at the gantry and -2.2s at Antoniusbusche. I didn't get a chance to see his exact finish time because, and I kid you not, he pitted! Had he driven for the line, the gap would have been less than ONE second and I'd have considered blocking)
 

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