Four Hours: The Nürburgring 4Hr Companion & Competition

[HaylRayzor]

Write-up to follow...

Waiting with bait-ed breath...

(What can I say... I love the herring.)

So aaaanyway....

I ran it again today with the GSX-R/4 at 500PP on SS tires. I had a crazy idea I could beat the LMS at 500PP on SS tires. Well, maybe not.

So I decided to settle for a class win. My main competition was the Amuse GT1. I did the race in 3 stops. I didn't bother recording lap times or gaps.

I was just enjoying the new cockpit view. Wow. Simply amazing.

My race time was 4'07:32 for 27 laps. I really didn't get the gearing right. I had been hot-lapping at 530PP and tuned it down to 500 for the race. Unfortunately I didn't lower the gearing and the engine just couldn't pull the taller gears. I wasn't even shifting to 6th until I was almost at the end of Dottinger.

This car is just a joy to drive on sport tires. I was honestly getting chills when I was lapping at 530PP. But I figured that was too much for the race and turned it down. In retrospect I probably should have left it higher to go after the LMS.

The LMS was a lap ahead of me at 28 laps in 4'07:57.
The GT1 was a lap behind me at 4'00:49 for 26 laps.

Other cars times:
FT586 26 laps 4'01:32
CT230R 26 laps 4'02:58
380RS 26 laps 4'03:04

These race times are interesting because the LMS, GT1, 380RS, and FT586 are slightly faster than previous times but the CT230R is slower.

The ff/rw feature (not really a rewind of course) makes it TONS easier to get race times for the AI. Obviously the replay is broken into segments and you can skip forward and backward through the segments.

 

[W3H5]

After an hours trial last night with a RM Evo, no added parts and a 60k ballast I found that it seemed to be a fair competitor. I split the power 15 - 85 in favour of the read and went out on SS.

It is the only car, so far, that I've noted to be almost on par with the front runners, in this case the Option Z and the HPA.

It's AWD system doesn't help with the slow corners because of the large amount of lift off over steer and in a race this long I'm certainly not hard braking late into the corner.

After 5 laps and a pit my fastest time was a 9:16 on lap 2 with massive amounts of hard driving and zero errors. I could have continued on with it but the car just isn't that fun to drive. Sure, it's not simple to corner in but it doesn't offer the challenge of something like OEM 2000 on SS.

 

[Famine]

I made one for a race at the UKGTP LAN. The standard car was dull as. With a brake balance of 5/6 it was hilarious.

Edit: Race Report - pictures and accurate race times to follow when I'm less busy/tired:


14th October 2011
Car used: Ford Focus RS '02
Tuning: Not much - almost stock car (oil, sports exhaust to save me listening to a droney four pot for four hours), almost stock settings (+1 on front brakes, 95% on the power limiter to offset the gain from the exhaust). Matte Purple, for the aesthetics again and racing soft tyres.
PP: 444PP
Power, Weight, PWR: 229hp, 1050kg, 218.1hp/tonne

Grid:
1. Z. Valentine; Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
2. F. Andersen; Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune (R34) '99
3. K. Weeks; Art Morrison Corvette '60
4. B. Leitner; Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
5. J. Nadel; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 base '00
6. T. Pozzi; Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune '03
7. GTP_Famine; Ford Focus RS '02
8. F. Mercer; Gran Turismo Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS
9. G. Henry; Amuse Carbon R (R34) '04
10. C. Copeland; AEM S2000
11. E. Schwarz; Ruf CTR Yellowbird '87
12. P. Butler; Nismo 380RS Superleggera

Lap 1 - 9'22.715
Interesting line-up...

This "being left standing at the start" lark seems familiar, but some close battling (a little too close - I've not raced in a while and I can't judge stopping distance any more, it seems) sees the little Focus claw up to 2nd by Dottinger, just 5s down on the R-Tune. The finish line sees that climb to 10s, but it's good enough.

Lap 2 - 9'08.884
I'm shortly joined by the Mine's Skyline who passes up the inside of the hairpin, only to be comprehensively outbraked around the outside. That's the last I see of him this lap...

I am however joined by a Z-Tune. No matter - he's stuck there until I understeer out of road at Brunnchen. D'oh.

Lap 3 - 9'09.500
A relatively quiet lap sees no action on my screen, save a change of lead up ahead. I'm now running around 20s down which is fine by me at this point.

Lap 4 - 9'17.501
It certainly seems as if the tyres are going off now, but I can't work out where I lost the time. My splits to the leaders are nudging 30s, which I'd expect. I make an executive decision to do another tour...

Lap 5 - 9'38.659 & pit-in
Though I can see where I lost time on this lap! The tyres aren't totally roasted yet, but a couple of moments at Hocheichen - which allows the Mine's past (only to retake the place on Quiddelbacher Hohe, of all places) - and on entry into Galgenkopf which utterly ruins my straight for me and drops me down to 5th (the Mine's and the Nismo 380RS come past).

Diving into the pits I find the Z-Tune and R-Tune are both already in. I've used 40 litres of fuel in my 5 laps (8 per lap, stats fans), so elect to take on nothing but my free 15 litres and sod off. Duly sodding off I pass both and find myself in 4th on track, leader of the pitted cars!

Lap 6 - 9'33.574 & pit-out
Oddly, I'm only 40s down on the leaders and gaining as the sixth lap on their tyres proves stupid as usual. The AEM S2000 in 3rd runs out of them at Pflanzgarten which allows me past and, thankfully, puts something wayward between me and the Z-Tune on my bumper. Crossing the line I'm 3rd...

Lap 7 - 9'08.487
... but quickly promoted to 1st as both the Mine's and 380RS are getting new rubber. The Z-Tune is glued to me, but my wide Focus and sticky tyres preserve the advantage.

The hour passes with me on the apex of Kallenhard at 6 laps plus 3'49.167 and a Z-Tune less than a second behind me!

Lap 8 - 9'10.509
Another lap with mirrors full of Z-Tune until he takes his chance to pass on Dottinger... I say "takes his chance". I mean "takes a run up from Galgenkopf, rams me out of the way and buggers off". Roll. Eyes.

Lap 9 - 9'18.814 & pit-in
The 3rd place R-Tune keeps a curiously respectful distance until Antoniusbusche where he comes sailing past, only to be undone by braking into Tiergarten. I dive into the pits on a split second decision to divide my fuel load and save static time.

The crew tell me I've now got 43 in my tank which means I've used 32 - 8 per lap - so I order a new set of racing softs, 15 more litres of gas (that's 58 in the tank for a 40 litre, 5-lap stint) and head back out in 4th just ahead of the 380RS and behind the Mine's...

Lap 10 - 9'37.135 & pit-out
The Z-tune has 41s gap when I depit and I know he's going to struggle on his fifth lap on those tyres. With the R-Tune going to pit too, that'll put the Mine's in effective race leadership ahead of his stop on Lap 12 (and mine on lap 14)... Hmm.

The gap is gradually sliced down - despite a lift-off oversteer moment at Hohenrain - down to 30s when the lead pair both pit. I cross the finish line in a narrow fourth...

Lap 11 - 9'09.555
Promoted immediately to 2nd as I pass the pit boxes. The 380RS tries to send a pass up the inside of the hairpin but fails and now I see the lead the Mine's has for the first time... 23s.

I decide to only keep pace with the Mine's rather than catch him - I have a full pit stop sequence advantage over him at the moment and since I'm on a five lap run I need to preserve my tyres - and indeed the gap stays between 18s and 21s for much of the lap. But then something surprising happens... he pits!

Lap 12 - 9'13.110
So, with just a few metres of this lap gone, I'm promoted to 1st and that changes my tactics - I'm no longer preserving a gap to a car I have advantage over, but building a lead. Eep.

The 380RS follows me round and he's 4s back but, despite my slowing, he's losing ground on his shattered tyres. He's passed for position by the Z-Tune just before Pflanzgarten, which sets about tearing into my lead... 11s becomes 7s by the top of Dottinger and 0.8s by the line. Double eep.

Lap 13 - 9'15.780
So, here we are again. Wide Focus and race rubber keeping the Z-Tune at bay... Half time passes again before half distance - at 12 laps plus 8'11.557 elapsed, just before the gantry on Dottinger Hohe.

Finishing this lap completes half the race distance, with 2hr 01'04.223 on the clock. And a lead of 0.1s..

The top six at half race distance is:
1. GTP_Famine; Ford Focus RS '02
2. T. Pozzi; Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune '03
3. F. Andersen; Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune (R34) '99
4. J. Nadel; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 base '00
5. P. Butler; Nismo 380RS Superleggera
10. C. Copeland; AEM S2000

Lap 14 - 9'20.554 & pit-in
Surprisingly the Z-Tune can't make enough of an impression in the bends to use his advantage on the straights - or just plain can't pass through Kesselchen - and I pit from the lead (although I end the lap in 2nd).

The pit crew say I've got 18 in the tank. From here on in I'm running 4 lap stints so I only need 32 each time. 20 litres go in for 38 in total.

Lap 15 - 9'37.750 & pit-out
I leave the pits in 4th behind the Z-Tune, Mine's and R-Tune - though the R-Tune is passed going from the GP track back onto the Nordschleife. With a 30s lead, the Z-Tune isn't even as far ahead as the time I spent into the pits and, gradually, the time tumbles to just 9s by Dottinger Hohe. As he pits the Mine's takes the lead and it's that I'm 16s down from...

Lap 16 - 9'03.792
At this stage I have no idea what the Mine's pit strategy is. He's done a 6 lap first stint and a 5 lap second stint, so he's possibly coming in on this lap. Either way, I'm on fours and that means I can nail my tyres' balls to the wall.

Which, with that new personal best, I clearly do.

Lap 17 - 9'09.922
And the Mine's pits. D'oh! Having got his lead down from 16s to 6s in a single lap, I think he's now out of the equation (and, potentially, he'll pit in on the last lap!). The 380RS assumes 2nd and the Z-Tune third. It's now all about the laptimes!

As the lap is coming to a close, I lap the Mine's Lancer Evolution leaving Schwalbenschwanz and never see him again. No wonder he's last.

Lap 18 - 9'16.995 & pit-in
The pit crew say I've got a whole 7 litres left, so I opt for 35 to split the load a bit

Lap 19 - 10'02.062 & pit-out
I head on out in third - just a few seconds behind the Mine's Skyline and only 30s down on the Z-Tune on old tyres...

An inexplicable spin at Hedwigshohe drops me 15s off the pair of them, but I should still make it back in the last pitstop. I hope. Better go flat out again then...

Lap 20 - 9'03.353
Flat out, aye!

Three hours passes at the crest of Flugplatz with 19 laps, 2'24.702 elapsed and, for the first time, I'm not in first place as the hour ticks over. In fact I'm third. Lawks.

The Z-Tune pits at the end of the lap and I'm chasing down the Mine's again...

Lap 21 - 9'11.491
A relatively meh lap, but I've decided to save the tyres for a good in-lap (after that screaming previous lap). The gap to the Mine's falls nonetheless as he's on his fifth lap with that set of tyres and he dives into the pits at the end of the lap with a 15s advantage...

Lap 22 - 9'20.112 & pit-in
As I lap the Art Morrison Corvette at Aremberg, it's make or break time. With the advantage the Mine's had I need to do a good lap and a good stop to come out in front - keeping an advantage is easier than passing and making one... The Z-Tune passes while I'm in the pits (I briefly lap the Yellowbird as he's stopped, but he leaves ahead), but he's got another stop to make and he's out of the picture.

The crew say I've got 10 litres left and I'm not going to make the line on lap 26 before the 4 hours is up. I need 22, I take 23 and the new rubber...

Lap 23 - 9'37.870 & pit-out
And out I come with no more than a second advantage over the Mine's and the now-fourth Nismo 380RS. A little dicing between them on the hairpin allows me to stretch a small lead and all I need to do now is preserve the tyres long enough to fend off the Mine's on lap 26...

Lap 24 - 9'06.407
It seems that the Mine's can't actually keep pace with the Focus - through the twisties I build such a lead that, despite the massive straight line deficit, the Mine's never closes up enough to pass before the next corner. We hold effective station, with no more than 5s between us at any point of the lap.

Lap 25 - 9'09.832
And so it is on lap 25 too - the Mine's can't hang on to make the straights pay off. The Z-Tune's lead is torn to shreds as his tattered tyres make another tour - 46s at the end of lap 24 becomes just 17s by the gantry - and in he goes at the end of the lap.

Backmarkers nearly come into play as the Opera 350Z stamps on the brakes leaving Pflanzgarten to avoid a very sideways Yellowbird. Both are lapped without much fuss and left to hold up the Mine's for me.

Lap 26 - 9'12.557
Hoof on gas time. I have to make my last-lap tyres pull enough of an advantage over the Mine's last-lap tyres to avoid being passed down Dottinger Hohe for a catastrophic race failure...

4 hours passes leaving Brunnchen at 25 laps plus 6'55.637 elapsed and a 5 second lead over the Mine's. That becomes 7.7s at the gantry. That becomes 2.2s at Antoniusbusche. That becomes a big, white shape in my rear view mirror - but there's nothing he can do as I take the win by feet and tenths in 4:02'16.920.

As a bizarre sidebar, even though the time was up two minutes since, the Mine's pits in just as I predicted back on lap 17. This makes the advantage nearer 5 seconds, but I think that's close enough for a practically stock FWD hatchback against tuner beasts after four hours of pain.

1st GTP_Famine; Ford Focus RS '02; 26 laps, 4:02'16.920
2nd J. Nadel; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 base '00; +4s
3rd T. Pozzi; Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune '03; +20s
4th P. Butler; Nismo 380RS Superleggera; +2'00
5th F. Andersen; Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune (R34) '99; +2'50
6th C. Copeland; AEM S2000; +3'30
7th G. Henry; Amuse Carbon R (R34) '04; +5'20
8th Z. Valentine; Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01; +6'15
9th F. Mercer; Gran Turismo Amuse/Opera Performance Gran Turismo 350Z RS; 4:02'30 +1 lap
10th E. Schwarz; Ruf CTR Yellowbird '87; 4:03'15 +1 lap
11th K. Weeks; Art Morrison Corvette '60; 4:05'30 +1 lap
12th B. Leitner; Mine's Lancer Evolution '00; 4:09'00 +1 lap

Summary
This probably should have been more of a win than it was. A bit of driver-origin dumbness lead to a lot of time being lost through excursions on the two fifth laps and the 15s I lost at Hedwigshohe on lap 19 nearly lost the race for me. The Focus ended up a bit more twisted than I'd normally like and I'd probably try this race again maybe by shedding some weight and building up the rear with ballast to prevent lift-off oversteer - the cause of so many of my little incidents...

 

[Michelin]

I'm gonna try now this race with a completely stock Corvette ZR1... but first, time to see how much time my laps will be and how much my tires hold up..

 

[Ras35001]

Who said enduro`s are boring? I`m curious if you will ever get a closer finish doing this event. Hell of a job, well done.

 

[bonobo4]

Who said enduro`s are boring? I`m curious if you will ever get a closer finish doing this event. Hell of a job, well done.

You could always slow down to get a photo-finish. But if you mean naturally then I highly doubt it. Closest I ever got was in the 1000km of Suzuka I won by just 35s after 6.5 hours of racing.

 

[W3H5]

Race Report

I have to ask. How do you manage such a detailed report Famine?

I tend to race with no HUD at all which doesn't lend to record keeping well, and pausing to make notes every lap distracts me big time, I've done it once before.

 

[Famine]

I pause, make light notes and take a photograph. Then I fill in the gaps from memory - but I've also got a replay saved.

Since I'm also pushing the boundaries of slowness, I also put my laptimes into a spreadsheet to compare them with a known-win slow race to predict my race time.

 

[W3H5]

Another quick question - Do you run your laps with the HUD on to get the split times or just pull it up across the start finish line to check lap times and rival position?

I tend to only check it for tyre wear towards the end of every 4th lap. I feel the HUD takes away from some of the immersion.

 

[Famine]

I've only recently stopped racing with Coptercam...

 

[W3H5]

I've only recently stopped racing with Coptercam...

Are you kidding?!

It took me a few months of '5 to get into the cockpit view from bumper view on GT4. I couldn't no race without a cockpit having become so attached to it.

Whenever I do the endurance races, which is about once a week, I get lost in the game when the HUD is off and it's just engine and tyres making up the soundtrack. I'm tempted to have another crack at the 'ring tonight and see it further than an hour unlike the last few weeks of driving only around 7 - 8 laps.

 

[Famine]

Nope - I'm an infamous Coptercam/Buttonbasher (no sticks for me) right up through Prologue.

I found that GT5 was harder to drive in Coptercam and I also found I couldn't (and this applied to GT4 too) drive with a wheel in Coptercam or drive with a pad in bumpercam. So I switched to wheel/bumpercam.

I don't like cockpit views, as a rule, because I can already see my hands on my wheel. I don't need to see more hands on another wheel, unless I'm XZibit.

 

[dr3w]

I just suspended the race after my 1st pit stop at lap 6, was using a Lexus IS-F RM 602PP
my lap times are in average around 8:55 in 2nd place, at the 1st place was the audi R8 LMS with 1:22 gap, can I still win? I'm abit worried at the moment, but it was fun though.
People here says that if you lap time are below 9 mins, you will win easily?

 

[Famine]

Sub-9 minute laptimes will see you win easily unless the R8 LMS or Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo are in the line up. Then you'll need to go a lot faster.

Check the first post for average AI laptimes...

 

[dr3w]

Sub-9 minute laptimes will see you win easily unless the R8 LMS or Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo are in the line up. Then you'll need to go a lot faster.

Check the first post for average AI laptimes...

oh dear, that means I only have like 10% chance of winning now heh

 

[Famine]

I'd say it's near 0% unless you can pull consistent 8'30 laps from now on.

 

[dr3w]

I'd say it's near 0% unless you can pull consistent 8'30 laps from now on.

Okay will try it again next time without the amuse s2000 and the R8 duh

My fault for not checking the lap time of the audi before I started the race

 

[HaylRayzor]

I've only recently stopped racing with Coptercam...

Wow. I am truly surprised.

But in my case I have always refused to drive any game without a wheel, or from any view that put me in any unrealistic position, like the roof cam or chase cam.

 

[W3H5]

I had an hours run tonight in a 444pp Type R (EK), trying to match the Focus and it didn't go so well. Drew the GT1 Turbo in the line up. Best lap was a 9:11 something. Details to follow tomorrow when I sober up.

 

[Fryto]

Did anyone else have the AI running out of fuel during this race?

I had a real tight race today, until lap 20 when I'm pitting at the end of this lap with a 2 sec lead over the HPA TT. I saved the race and shut down my ps3 to resume in the evening. When resuming I select my fuel load and then notice that the HPA TT didn't stop, but decided to start a 6th lap on his stint. As I was on a 4 lap stint strategy and the HPA TT usually does 5 lap stints this would pretty much screw up my race, as now he would only need 1 stop anymore, while I needed one more after my current one.
So for me there was nothing more left than to floor the accelerator and try to make up as much time as possible on my new tyres, while the HPA TT must have been on nearly complete toasted ones. That seemed to go quite well as I saw the TT lose its lead from 45 to 29 seconds by the time I reach the checkpoint before the Karoussel. A couple of turns after the Karroussel I suddenly saw a blue arrow crawling over the track and a couple of seconds later I flew past the TT: it had run out of fuel.

That pretty much wrapped up the race and I had an easy last 50 minutes, cruising to victory with around 1'45'' on the second placed car, a Mine's BNR '06 . The unfortunate TT finished 9th.

I'm wondering if anyone saw this before? I have no idea if this is because I saved the race at the moment the TT was supposed to come into the pits right behind me... The other cars that were on a 5 lap strategy pitted like planned on lap 20 as far as I could see.

Nonetheless this 4hrs of the Nurburgring is the most fun event by far in the game. I have been waiting until we had the mid-race save functionality to do it. First time was with a stock Nismo 380 RS on Sports Softs (came 2nd due to a few avoidable offs, 50 secs behind the HPA TT). This attempt was the second, using a stock BMW M5 '08 equiped with racing hards.

 

[Barra333]

Well, I had a crack at this race on the weekend. After doing about an hour’s worth of testing on the wrong track (full 24hr version), I went to the type V track and started over.

Car Used: Honda Dualnote Concept ’01.
Tuning: Brand new car, oil change, sports exhaust, fixed sports suspension kit and 6 speed close ratio gearbox
Vital Stats: 411hp, 1400kg, 532PP. Started on SS tyres
The single lap test resulted in a lap time of about 9’09, so figured that would do the trick (based on Famine and GTSail’s observationings).


Lineup:
1.S.Jordan; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-Spec N1 Base '00
2. V.Lindfors; HPA FT565 Audi TT
3. L.Cooper; Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
4. S.Pittman; Nismo 400R '96
5. A.Estes; HPA Stage II R32
6. E.Gaines; HKS CT230R '08
7. Barra333; Honda Dualnote Concept ‘01
8. N.Ballard; Nismo Skyline GT-R R-Tune R34 '99
9. P.Morelli; Nismo Fairlady Z Z-Tune Z33 '03
10. G.Crawford; Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06
11. W.Dudley; Nissan Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R '01
12. C.Holtzman; Amuse Nismo 380RS Superleggera


Lap 1: 9’14.642. Solid start, dropped a couple of spots, but with the rolling start, not nearly as many as if it was a standing start. Passed a few cars into turn one, then eventually settled into 3rd, behind the HPA Audi and the S2000. Dropped another spot on Dottinger to the BNR34 V-Spec. 9 seconds down

Lap 2: 9’06.334. Uneventful, except that I dropped another spot to the CT230R. Finished the lap 16sec behind the Audi

Lap 3: 9’11.534. Holding station in 5th

Lap 4: 9’23.992 + pit in. Tyres wearing pretty thin, I’m a bit worried about my ability to make them last 5 laps. It also appears that the battery thing in this car is there for decoration, I used 9 litres of fuel per lap, way more than I expected. Emerged from the pits in 10th, 1’11 behind the leader.

Lap 5: 9’35.610 + pit out. Everyone except the S2000, CT230R and the Superleggera pitted. Allowing me back to 4th

Lap 6: 9’06.511. Overtook the Superleggera as it was going in to the pits and passed the CT230R and S2000 while they were stationary. Had made ~40sec on them while their tyres were dying. Got overtaken by the Audi on the straight though and started lap 7 right behind him.

Lap 7: 9’08.068. 1hr mark passed 4’30 into the lap, with me running second by 4sec. Ended the lap 10sec down

Lap 8: 9’22.558. Crap. Dropped a tyre in the grass at Schwedenkreuz and spun, taking the Fairlady Z with me.

Lap 9: 9’33.326 + pit in. I begin to realise this may not end well. After 2 scruffy laps in a row, I pit for tyres, dropping me back to 10th, about 1’40 behind the lead. Rear tyres were completely shot, barely a sliver of tread showing on the gauge

Lap 10: 9’45.829 +pit out. Decent enough lap, considering it include the stationary time in the pit. The majority of the field pit at the end of the lap, but I only come back to 6th, 53sec down.

Lap 11: 9’09.085. Need more of these. Still 6th, +58sec
Lap 12: 9’09.937. Done

Lap 13: 9’33.392 + pit in. Now 1min down. Dinner time and a pending Rugby World Cup semi final mean I ask all drivers to park their cars on track to come back tomorrow. It has become abundantly clear that I cannot win in this setup. I decide that I will change to RH tyres to claw back the time. In the confusion of resuming the race however, I managed to fill the car with fuel and emerge from the pit with SS tyres on the front and RH on the back. Dammit.

Lap 14: 10’07.428 + pit out. This included an eternity in the pits taking on 74L of fuel, otherwise was an OK lap. Still 10th, 2’11 down.

Lap 15: 9’04.702. Happy days. Faster lap time and I don’t seem to eating the rear tyres as much. Made up some spots on pitting cars

Lap 16: 9.06.660. Finished the lap only 1’07 down thanks to others pitting on L15.

Lap 17: 9’17.209. A bit untidy
Lap 18: 9’17.190 + pit in. Tyres lasted much better this time out, giving 5 decent laps of grip. By virtue of all the fuel I took last time, I only took the 14L that go in while the new RH tyres are going on front and back. Emerge 1’57 behind.

Lap 19: 9’18.702 + pit out. Made up ground with the stickier tyres, ending the lap 1’41 behind

Lap 20: 9’01.848. 3hr mark passes 2’26 into the lap, with me in 7th, still trailing the leading Audi by 1’40. Finish the lap +1’37

Lap 21: 9’06.544. After another round of AI pitstops on lap 20, the gap has come down to 31sec. I cross the line 5th, behind the Audi, BNR34 V-Spec, CT230R and S2000, with the Fairlady Z right behind.

Lap 22: 9’10.616 + pit in. Last pit stop, emerge 1’11 down in 6th, with the AI all due to pit once more. Hopefully they stay in the pits long enough and I am consistent enough.

Lap 23: 9’23.117 + pit out. Still +1’06 and 6th place.

Lap 24: 8’57.103. Passed the CT230R and the very slow S2000 while they were making their way to their last pitstop. Making ground on the Fairlady Z.

Lap 25: 8’59.002. Another solid lap. Went under the gantry with 8’30 to go in the race, still 3rd having passed the Fairlady Z, but 47 sec behind the leader. Thankfully they pit, and I sail past for my first lead of the race, a mere 3 hours and 52 minutes after it started.

Lap 26: 9’07.xxx. Now to stay in front. Lead was 21.9 sec at the start/finish line of the Nordscheife. Keep it on track you nuffy! The 4hrs pass 7’48 into the lap and I managed to hold on for a ~15second win, my closest ever endurance race.


Apologies for the lack of detail, suspending the race cost me the chance to save the replay to mine for the said details. I do know that the Audi came second, with the BNR V-spec and S2000 in 2nd/3rd.

I think a win in this car may be possible on SS tyres, with some more car setup to get the 5th lap in. And a lot more consistency behind the wheel. Laps 4, 8, 9 and 13 killed off my chances on the sports tyres.

 

[W3H5]

Test Run​

For this test I performed 1 complete tyre life cycle. (1 hour)

The car.

Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97
444pp
246hp
948kg
Tyres: RS

Modifications
Racing exhaust
Hight adjust suspension
Carbon hood & light weight windows
Racing flywheel & twin plate clutch
High RPM Turbo kit

Settings
ABS: 0
TCS: 0
Controller sensitivity: 7
MT / No HUD / Cockpit view (wide)
Power Limiter: 85%
Weight ballast: 60kg

The main aim with this test was was to find out if a FF Type R could compete for the full four hours and make a top spot finish. The factors involved tyre wear, top end speed and of course handling characteristics. 444pp was chosen so that some comparison can be made between the Focus RS and the Civic Type R at equal pp value.

The Competition
1. S2000 GT1
2. FT565 Twin Turbo Audi TT
3. BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base
4. CTR "Yellow Bird"
5. 350Z (Nismo)
6. Gran Turismo Skyline GT-R
7. Shem's Type R
8. G37
9. Fairlady Z Z-Tune
10. S2000 GT1 Turbo
11. CTR2
12. Nismo 380RS Super Leggera

Lap 1
From the start the Civic is clearly underpowered compared to the rest of the field. The high end turbo proved a good decision giving the Civic the benefit of maintaining the power-band and avoiding low revs.

The Type R makes it by the BNR32 into 6th at Hockeichen and keeps a steady pace with the Few cars ahead, losing no more than a few seconds around lap 1.

The FF layout shows no sign of trouble yet as the soft tyres keep both ends going exactly where they should be going. Across the line the Mine's passes but the place is retaken at the first corner with a bit of late braking. The chase begins.

Lap 2
The GT1 Turbo has made it's way through the pack in to 1st, knocking every one down a place. The Civic drops to 7th. After the first corner tussle with the Mine's BNR34, it continues to fill the rear view mirror until Klostertal where it's top speed is no match for the little Type R. He sails by without much of a fight. The Civic meets 8th for the first time.

Lap 3
Across the line the Mine's has pulled 5 seconds on the civic. At Kallenhard the "Yellow Bird" is passed while it performs its usual ballet routine almost taking out the Type R in the process. The FT565 seemed to have had a big off at Eschbach which put the Civic on its tail for the rest of the lap until the straight.

Lap 4
Somehow the Type R is promoted to 6th across the line and continues the rest of the lap alone with a small error made at Bergwerk causing the loss of a few seconds.

Laps 5 & 6
The tyres begin to fade and lap 5 sees a very reserved circuit, not a lot of action besides losing 2 places due to driving cautiously. Being a test run, no pit stop was made at the end of lap 5 to test how far the tyres would stretch. Needless to say the cars performance on lap 6 was atrocious and could be likened to a shopping trolley in the bends. The remained of the field, now on fresh rubber made their passes resulting in an 11th place position for the Civic at the end of lap 6. Test Over.

Conclusion
There is no possibility of the Honda doing a 6 lap run the tyres. It is largely outclassed by most of the competition and has just a little advantage in the mid-speed corners thanks to the high end turbo.
Before 8500RPM the engine has very little pull. Once in the red the power delivery becomes more punchy, meaning most of the lap is done with the engine screaming up to 10'000 revs which is not the most pleasant sound even with the racing exhaust.

Is it a contender for the win? I'm not sure it is with the set-up I used. Without the extra weight and power limit it may stand a chance so long as the GT1 Turbo or the R8 don't show their faces.

Is it nice to drive? It's just OK. The handling isn't too bad at all so long as there is grip in the tyres. It's very nimble around the tight bends showing neither much under-steer or over-steer.

The details here are a bit sketchy because I got drunk while watching the replay and my notes are almost illegible. The facts are correct but a little thin on info so apologies for that.

Next up..........I've no idea what to use! I liked the AEM2000 on SS as that provided a good challenge, it could well be my next test car.

 

[crooky369]

Just did an attempt in the Tank Car...

Didn't go too badly to start with I made my way up to 6th after diving down the outside of the first hairpin and for a few minutes (maybe two!) I was pulling away from 7th.

But after I'd got to the bottom of the track where the hotel and village is they were right on my tail and it stayed this way until the main straight where they all flew past me apart from the pace car Skyline and somesort of 350Z.

Lap 1 = 10th place (9:37)

Then the pace car overtook me into the hairpin, I braked late in the 4 tonne beast and was momentarily ahead until his far superior four wheel traction allowed him ahead.... So it was all about keeping the 350Z behind me but disastrously a tyre went on the grass on the fast right hander after the jump I went into a 360 degree spin letting the 350Z through. I sloppily finished the lap on the now totally knackered tyres and promptly retired.

Lap 2 = 12th place (10:50)

I think I need to show this race a bit more respect!

 

[dr3w]

Just finished the race, my car was quite overpowered, a lexus ISF RM with 550 hp on Racing Hard, my best lap was 8:38 and I don't know how I did that, all I know is that yesterday I need to finish 1 lap before I had to go to work so I was abit in a hurry. My average was around 8:47.
I finished with 6mins ahead of the 2nd car which was the audi TT. Maybe I'll try again next time against those S2000 GT1 turbo or the audi r8 lms.
Overall it was a great experience to learn the track

 

[Famine]

Barra333's race added to post one.

I'm doing some testing in other FWD cars now - I want to use an ST170 for the 6th gear, but I'd have to dirty my 0.0mi one to do it (if anyone has a spare, please do send it over) - to lower my 444PP record I've just tested a FIAT Coupe at 420PP to 9'20, so I'll give it a few tweaks and have another crack...


I'd love to use the Tank Car. I know it has the same outright pace as Speccy which walked it, but I also know that, at 3.5 tonnes, it chews tyres like my dog chews rawhide.

 

[crooky369]

Barra333's race added to post one.

I'm doing some testing in other FWD cars now - I want to use an ST170 for the 6th gear, but I'd have to dirty my 0.0mi one to do it (if anyone has a spare, please do send it over) - to lower my 444PP record I've just tested a FIAT Coupe at 420PP to 9'20, so I'll give it a few tweaks and have another crack...

I'd love to use the Tank Car. I know it has the same outright pace as Speccy which walked it, but I also know that, at 3.5 tonnes, it chews tyres like my dog chews rawhide.

Problem is the tank car is no where near as fast as you would perceive it to be. Most cars have the legs on it down a small straight and on the massive straight at the Nurb it hits the red line at around 160mph so everyone will just fly past unless you.unfairly block. Plus it's almost impossible to keep in a straight line on cold tyres around the first section.

 

[W3H5]

ST170.

There's a good chance I've got one an I know for a fact I haven't used it yet. I'll have a look.

 

[Famine]

There's a good chance I've got one an I know for a fact I haven't used it yet. I'll have a look.

Cheers

Actually, I suppose I could clone it for use tomorrow...

Problem is the tank car is no where near as fast as you would perceive it to be. Most cars have the legs on it down a small straight and on the massive straight at the Nurb it hits the red line at around 160mph so everyone will just fly past unless you.unfairly block. Plus it's almost impossible to keep in a straight line on cold tyres around the first section.

I've been driving cars topping at 148mph Speccy only tops at 155.

Back before UKGTP14, Venari came up with an idea for an event based on the old EZGT seried run at the Numbers. The essence was to build a car using anything but wings (and a 95% power limiter cap) that you could not physically get to beat a set laptime at a set course. If your car was too fast, you had to detune it until you couldn't beat the laptime and if it was too slow you could build it up to get close to it.

Speccy - which destroyed this race without the R8 LMS and GT1 Turbo in it (and could probably beat them if I tried) - was the result of this event. However, I very nearly ran the series with the Tank Car instead, which was only 0.2s slower around the circuit than Speccy was. I also nearly used the Mitsubishi HSR-II Concept because it's hilarious and I thought it might distract my rivals

I love the Tank Car and it's in my in-game profile picture currently (and has been since May). But it'll drink gas and chew tyres I'll have to pit every two laps, for a minute a time!


Edit: 9'14 from a 439PP FIAT Coupe. Harumph. Glad I didn't waste a Matte Purple on it

Edit edit: Oh wow, 9'02 from a 430PP FWD car... It's stock bar two lots of weight losses, so I might have to put some ballast on board to detune it a bit, otherwise it'll be a FWD walkover.

Edit edit edit: Nope. Whereas the Focus was a 9'09 car in practice and a 9'09 car in the race with occasional flashes of 9'03, the Integra managed 9'02 in practice (even with ballast) and has only broken 9'10 once in seven laps. And I've been utterly removed from the planet by a Nismo 380RS, smashing me off the track in the braking zone at Hohenrain. Drawing board, back to.

 

[bonobo4]

I was doing some testing earlier trying to get a car that could either break the 410PP, 169bhp/tonne or 160bhp records. It proved really tough to get a car with any of those specs under 9:15. My first attempt was a Beetle RSi with ~450PP, 260BHP/1700kg (200kg ballast, 95% limiter), but even though it had 168bhp/tonne and RS Tyres, I couldn't get below 9:35.

Next try was a VW Golf IV RM with 418PP, RS, ~200BHP/tonne and 180BHP. Too slow as well.

Back to the drawing board. I want to break a record, or at least come close. I suppose I could always use an X2011 on CH Tyres.

 

[jtv90069]

great thread here, have really enjoyed the race reports and looking forward to adding my own experience to the list.
undecided which car to try yet, but have had a practice in a 1981 celica 409pp for a lap of approx 9:35 so that's not quite enough.
also bonobo4 has a thread "nordshleife lap times" which has a very good map for the names of corners on the green hell, doesn't include the gp track but will be good reference for me.