Free Speech

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Disney tells Florida, "You can dissolve us, but you're gonna pay off our debt to do so."
Reedy Creek is a special purpose district created by state law in May 1967 that gives The Walt Disney Company extensive governmental control over the land in and around its central Florida theme parks. With that power, Reedy Creek currently has about $1 billion in outstanding bond debt, according to the credit rating agency Fitch Ratings.

In a statement issued to its bondholders last Thursday, Reedy Creek pointed out that the 1967 law also includes a pledge from Florida to its bondholders. The law states that Florida "will not in any way impair the rights or remedies of the holders ... until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any act or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged."

Due to that pledge, Reedy Creek said it expects to continue business as usual.
 
The RNC is circulating a list of 16 names in an exploratory poll for the next Republican presidential candidate. Donald Trump is one, but oddsmakers put him at least even odds versus the field. Failing convictions for tax fraud and sundry other crimes and offenses, and assuming he gets his Twitter account back, and taking into consideration that the Republicans seem likely take both houses of Congress in the mid-terms, Trump seems likely to be returned to office. Possibly a pyrrhic victory for free speech, but likely a disaster for national unity.
God I hope Trump doesn't run. He is too damaged, and you know how he handles the primaries. He destroys all of his opponents.

Of course I've got no idea what the Dems are going to do.
 
God I hope Trump doesn't run. He is too damaged, and you know how he handles the primaries. He destroys all of his opponents.

Of course I've got no idea what the Dems are going to do.
Just to get a read of the former[?] Trump team...who would you prefer in his place?

I don't think even the Dems have any idea what they are going to do.
 
Just to get a read of the former[?] Trump team...who would you prefer in his place?

I don't think even the Dems have any idea what they are going to do.
Personally, I like DeSantis. He has the fight of Trump without the baggage. Most of me friends are still all in for Trump.
 
Personally, I like DeSantis. He has the fight of Trump without the baggage. Most of me friends are still all in for Trump.
Had a feeling that was going to be the reply. I get the sense that there will be a GOP civil war between Trump and DeSantis. DeSantis seems to be far more effective at governance (at least in a GOP stronghold like Florida has become) and I also think he's significantly smarter than Trump - he picks his battles a lot more strategically and his tone/outlook isn't so grievance based. Trump whines (like, almost continuously), DeSantis plots. DeSantis has taken Trump's platform and packaged it into something calmer, more deliberate/calculating & outwardly reasonable looking - like combing the crazy uncle's hair. Or something. DeSantis would trounce Biden if the election was tomorrow, I would guess, whereas Trump would very likely drive independents/moderates back, begrudgingly, to Biden - which would be a magnificent GOP own-goal.

We're in a weird spot right now. We have a President that nobody really likes (personally I don't mind Biden, he's exactly the faceless & moderately effective, somewhat-principled, and fair bureaucrat I think is necessary to perform the duties of the President, I just think he's too damn old to run again) and nobody on the democratic side seems to have a clue as to who might even be an alternative. Bernie? Way too old. Gavin? Probably too politically vulnerable at the moment. Kamala? Haha. I think, eventually, there is going to be a DeSantis-Newsom faceoff but I don't think it will be in 2024.

I've gone off topic.

Edit: To get back on topic, I do think this dumbass feud with Disney will backfire to some degree on DeSantis...it remains to be seen how much.
 
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Personally, I like DeSantis. He has the fight of Trump without the baggage. Most of me friends are still all in for Trump.
So you say that Trump is damaged goods, yet double down by rooting for the guy that has not only demonstrated a disdain for the 1st Amendment, but is (for all intents and purposes) attempting to extort a major company for utilizing their 1st Amendment rights?

High Quality Im Shocked GIF
 
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So you say that Trump is damaged goods, yet double down by rooting for the guy that has not only demonstrated a disdain for the 1st Amendment, but is (for all intents and purposes) attempting to extort a major company for utilizing their 1st Amendment rights?

High Quality Im Shocked GIF
But he can still win elections, for now, unlike DT.
 
Personally, I like DeSantis. He has the fight of Trump without the baggage. Most of me friends are still all in for Trump.
You like a guy who hates the first amendment? I'm an outsider here but that seems like an odd take for an American to have.
 
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You like a guy who hates the first amendment? I'm an outsider here but that seems like an odd take for an American to have.
They don't hate the First Amendment so much as they hate that it constrains their own just as it does the opposition.

Modern American conservatism is mental illness.
 
You like a guy who hates the first amendment? I'm an outsider here but that seems like an odd take for an American to have.
Please inform me as to how he does not support the 1st amendment. Don't say 'gay'? You know that is a lie right?
 
Please inform me as to how he does not support the 1st amendment.
- Anti 1st Amendment

The fact that he created a law that makes teachers discussing specific things about modern society to children a criminal offense.

The fact that he's actively trying to legally punish an American company, run by Americans, for using their 1st Amendment rights to publicly disapprove of the aforementioned law.

The fact that he attempted to make organized protesting a crime.

The fact that he created a law that attempted to punish social media companies for "censoring" political candidates (Read: punishing private companies for exercising their ToS policies). This was later shot down by a federal judge for violating the 1st Amendment.

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If we want to be a bit more broad:

- Anti Freedom-of-Choice

The fact that he attempted to punish school districts that imposed masked mandates (Bonus: The Florida Education Commissioner also threatened to remove the elected school board officials that defied DeSantis).

The fact that he publicly scolded a group of students for wearing masks at a conference, calling it "theatre."

The fact that he threatened to withhold funding to counties that "defund the police" (which goes hand-in-hand with the Anti-riot law).

The fact that he created a law requiring colleges and universities to annually survey their students "intellectual freedom," which doesn't exactly create a lot of goodwill given his previous attacks on education and the scientific method.
 
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Please inform me as to how he does not support the 1st amendment. Don't say 'gay'? You know that is a lie right?
"Don't Say Gay," as it is termed by critics, is no less more misleading than the official title "Parental Rights in Education Act," as it weighs the wants and wills of some against those of others, while violating the expressive rights of educators--specifically prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity--without meaningfully preventing harm.

But whether "don't say 'gay'" is "a lie" or not, and whether the legislation is constitutional, has no bearing on the Florida state legislature and executive penalizing a private actor for criticism of it--specifically withdrawing future political contributions to those who acted in support of the legislation's passage--and the unconstitutionality of said action. And state actors who sought and acted in support of said penalty have made abundantly clear that it's a direct response to disfavored, protected expression, with the executive going so far as to suggest that action may be suspended should Disney choose to reverse course. Sure, Florida government giveth and Florida government can taketh away, but they don't get to do so because of disfavored, protected expression. This is referred to as unconstitutional conditions doctrine; state actors may not condition the availability of government benefit or contract on the forfeiture of rights enumerated in the United States Constitution.

Of course this isn't the only way the Florida executive's disdain for the First Amendment to the United States Constitution has manifested.

With the "Stop W.O.K.E. Act," Florida has introduced a civil cause of action against disfavored, protected expression in higher education and the private sector, weaponizing the courts and harnessing the litigiousness of the aggrieved in an effort to chill disfavored, protected expression.

With the unnamed SB 7072 (enjoined due to its being facially unconstitutional), Florida sought to penalize private actors for disfavored, protected expression in the form of moderation policy and action on social media. The Florida state legislature and executive wanted to weigh the expressive rights of some against those of others, compelling private actors to carry speech under threat of state action.

With Executive Order 21-81 (enjoined due to its being facially unconstitutional), the Florida executive sought to prohibit inquiry by private actors regarding vaccination status and the rendering of services conditioned on the response (or lack thereof) under threat of state action.
 
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This one is just absolutely bizarre. The Attorneys General of Missouri and Louisiana are now suing President Joe Biden and a whole bunch of his administration, including press secretary Jen Psaki, Dr. Anthony Fauci, DHS boss Alejandro Mayorkas, and newly appointed Disinfo czar Nina Jankowicz, in a nearly incomprehensible complaint that the Biden administration forced social media sites to take down information, mostly before it was in office. Also, apparently Section 230 is both bad and the Biden support for repealing it violates the 1st Amendment. Or something. It really does not make much sense at all.

Putting the complaint in the best possible light, they’re trying to make a jawboning complaint: that government intimidation is forcing certain content moderation decisions. But even then, this complaint is ridiculously poorly written and laughable.

The complaint kicks off with a weird quote of George Washington on the importance of free speech and then jumps to quoting Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas’ extraordinarily non-binding random riffing about Section 230. But the crux of the complaint — again, I must remind you that it is against many parts of the Biden administration — is that they somehow colluded with private social media companies to censor speech, even though they weren’t even the government at that time.
A private entity violates the First Amendment “if the government coerces or induces it to take action the government itself would not be permitted to do, such as censor expression of a lawful viewpoint.” Biden v. Knight First Amendment Institute at Columbia Univ… (Thomas, J., concurring). “The government cannot accomplish through threats of adverse government action what the Constitution prohibits it from doing directly.”
And, yes, it’s true that the government cannot coerce private actors to do things like suppressing speech, but unless there’s a pretty clear threat associated with it, the government does still retain its right to speak out generally on what it likes and does not like. Now, it’s true that the line can get blurry here, but contrary to lots of complaints, the administration merely whining about disinformation on social media does not, in any way, count. We already discussed how the Press Secretary saying they don’t like disinformation on social media comes nowhere close to being an actual threat.

We also discussed how an angry anti-masker suing the administration because his posts got taken off Twitter wasn’t going to work, because Twitter remains a private company. But this lawsuit isn’t from some random anti-masker. It’s from the states of Louisiana and Missouri! States shouldn’t be filing such preposterous lawsuits, but here we are in the year 2022.

Anyway, as you dig into the details of this lawsuit, it gets progressively worse. At least with the anti-masker dude he was pointing to specific content he felt was banned because of the White House. What content are real life Attorneys General Jeff Landry and Eric Schmitt suing over?

The Hunter Biden laptop story in the NY Post.
Perhaps most notoriously, social-media platforms aggressively censored an October 14, 2020 New York Post exposé about the contents of the laptop of (then-Candidate Biden’s son) Hunter Biden, which had been abandoned in a Delaware repair shop and contained compromising photos and email communications about corrupt foreign business deals.
So, so much to unpack here. Let’s start with the big one though: the Biden administration did not exist at the time of the Hunter Biden laptop story. So there is no way that the Biden administration could have violated the 1st Amendment into pressuring social media not to carry that story.

And that’s not even getting into how silly the whole claim about the Biden laptop was. We’ve explained over and over and over again why that’s not a story of political censorship. And if you keep claiming it is, then you have to explain why the exact same policy used against a website for revealing internal police chat messages wasn’t equally political (and let’s not even get into the claim that the laptop revealed “corrupt” foreign business deals).

Either way, it takes an incredible lack of shame to argue that Twitter (a private company) using its existing “hacked materials” policy to block a single link to a single story, is a 1st Amendment violation, because the Biden administration, which did not exist for another three months, was pressuring the company to block it.

And it gets worse.

The second example used in the lawsuit is social media companies limiting discussions of the whole “lab leak” theory… in early 2020. Also, efforts by social media companies to pull down disinformation about mail-in ballots. All of these things happened under the Trump administration, and not because of government pressure, but because the companies didn’t want to have their platforms abused by malicious actors.

The lawsuit also has a weird, somewhat contradictory position on Section 230. First, it blasts Section 230, saying (falsely) that it “subsidized, protected, and fostered the creation of speech-censorship policies in a small, concentrated group of social-media firms.” This is not just false, it’s laughably false, and any lawyer who claims this is true, shouldn’t still be a lawyer.

The 1st Amendment is what allows any website to moderate as it sees fit. It’s called editorial discretion. And, again, it applies to any website that is hosting 3rd party speech, and not just a “small, concentrated group of social-media firms.” I mean, I guess it’s not that surprising that a lawsuit that claims that Twitter following its own moderation rules 3 months before the Biden administration exists means the Biden administration violated the 1st Amendment, was written by lawyers who don’t realize the 1st Amendment is actually what protects a website’s rights to moderate.

But then, after blasting Section 230, and insisting that it’s been interpreted wrongly… the lawsuit suddenly does spins around, and claims that… the Biden administration’s many (incredibly stupid) claims to want to repeal Section 230 is the mechanism by which it was threatening social media companies into doing its bidding. So, according to this lawsuit, Section 230 is an evil, unconstitutional, problematic law, but any attempt to reform or repeal it is… itself a 1st Amendment violation. How’s that work?

Finally, the lawsuit calls out the ridiculous “Disinformation Governance Board” that Homeland Security is setting up. We’ve already talked about how dumb the rollout of this board is, and the administration has since fumbled multiple chances to explain what the Board is and what it’s going to do. I’d be fine if they just canceled the whole stupid plan. But, considering it doesn’t even exist, and may be doing something totally benign — like studying how disinformation flows — it seems a bit premature to be suing it as a 1st Amendment violation.

The entire lawsuit reads more like something we read from trolls in our comments, not a lawsuit filed by two actual, honest-to-goodness state Attorneys General. But, kudos, Jeff Landry and Eric Schmitt, you’ve truly outdone yourselves in stupid, performative, nonsense lawsuits.
Excuse Me Reaction GIF by Mashable


Edit: This gave me a good chuckle.

Edit: Mild profanity ("bat****").

 
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Please inform me as to how he does not support the 1st amendment. Don't say 'gay'? You know that is a lie right?
He sought to punish a company simply because people at the company exercised their 1st amendment rights. He passed a law that restricts the 1st amendment rights of teachers. There are other examples too.

He is by definition opposed to the 1st amendment.

edit: sorry, just noticed that this has already been answered by others.
 
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He sought to punish a company simply because people at the company exercised their 1st amendment rights. He passed a law that restricts the 1st amendment rights of teachers. There are other examples too.

He is by definition opposed to the 1st amendment.

edit: sorry, just noticed that this has already been answered by others.
Yeah, but I asked you the question, not them.

Why should an entertainment company poke its opinion into something that has nothing to do with their business? Disney was dragged into that fight by the woke leftist Twitter mob and the media. They initially had no comment.

And as far as the free speech of teachers, I sure wouldn't want my seven year old to know that his teacher is a gender queer non-binary what-ever-the-hell, or to even know what that means. That is what this law is intending to stop.

Back to Disney. I don't think the Republicans in Florida should have taken away Disney's autonomy, but I don't think it happens till some time in the future. I think Disney will shut up and that law will go away. Disney does a much better job taking care of their infrastructure than any government body ever could.
 
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Why not? How would ignorance on that topic benefit your child?
Human society has done just fine for thousands of years with out all of this new pronoun/gender crap. I think it is nothing more than a fad.
 
Human society has done just fine for thousands of years with out all of this new pronoun/gender crap.
That would describe literally all of modern society. All this teacher would be doing is describing who they are to your child, which is perfectly reasonable and not a fad. It's no different from the teacher deciding to share a European origin or something.
 
What a clown show. If Disney cares about their employees' welfare then the reproductive rights of those employees are important to them.

The question should be, why should government poke its noses into what women decide to do with their bodies?
 
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Because it is their RIGHT to do so. Do you not support the 1st amendment rights of people that work at Disney?
Unfortunately, modern Republicans don't believe in the 1st Amendment, or really any part of the Bill of Rights except some weird view on the 2nd Amendment.
 
Yeah, but I asked you the question, not them.
You don't get to pick-and-choose who responds to you on a public discussion board, and you were given specific examples of how DeSantis is actively acting against the 1st, in response to the question you asked. Do you have any counter arguments, or is this just an attempt to skirt around that and hope nobody notices?
Why should an entertainment company poke its opinion into something that has nothing to do with their business?
Why shouldn't they? They have the same right to comment on happenings as you and I.

And regardless, how does that negate the fact that DeSantis is actively acting against their 1st Amendment rights to Free Speech?
Human society has done just fine for thousands of years with out all of this new pronoun/gender crap. I think it is nothing more than a fad.
And this impacts the life of your seven year old how, exactly...?
That is what this law is intending to stop.
By jailing people for expressing themselves, a right that people have literally fought and died for? What kind of message do you think this sends to your son about this country?
I think Disney will shut up and that law will go away.
Ah, yes. Just comply with our unjust, unconstitutional actions and all will be well. Totally not authoritarian at all.
 
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Yeah, but I asked you the question, not them.
Spider Man Lol GIF

Why should an entertainment company poke its opinion into something that has nothing to do with their business?
Why shouldn't it?

The issue here isn't that an actor (in this context, an "actor" is merely one who engages in some form of action) has spoken about "something that has nothing to do with their business," rather that the action doesn't align with your viewpoint.

If this was one whose remarks align with your viewpoint, you'd have no issue with their remarks regardless of "their business."

Disney was dragged into that fight by the woke leftist Twitter mob and the media.
Each of these words may or may not have meaning, but this particular combination of words has no meaning outside of conservative bitchfits.

Modern American conservatism is mental illness.

They initially had no comment.
DeSantis signed the bill into law March 28th, 2022. Disney expressed opposition to the law April 6th, 2022. At what point during these nine days did the "initial" period pass? Why was Disney supposed to have commented during the aforementioned "initial" period?

See, "initial" here is deliberately ambiguous. You'd have issue with them expressing opposition regardless of how little time transpired because the opposition doesn't align with your viewpoint. You use ambiguous terms like "initial" explicitly because they're ambiguous and they obfuscate the issue. This is deceitful.

And as far as the free speech of teachers, I sure wouldn't want my seven year old to know that his teacher is a gender queer non-binary what-ever-the-hell, or to even know what that means.
What is the harm that government is acting to prevent by prohibiting this particular expression?

As I said before, Florida is weighing the wants and wills (because an individual doesn't actually have the right to not be exposed to ideas with which they disagree) of some against those of others, and they're infringing upon the actual protected expressive rights of some in the process.

That is what this law is intending to stop.
The text of the law doesn't reflect this supposed intent, which suggests to me that you haven't read the text and yet you have still managed to form opinions strong enough about it to indulge in bitchfits as you incorrectly argue its intent.

The actual real text of the law is more broad, indicating that the intent itself is more broad. Per the text, "[c]lassroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Of course, no reasonable harm is prevented by prohibiting this particular expression.

Human society has done just fine for thousands of years with out all of this new pronoun/gender crap. I think it is nothing more than a fad.
Conservative bitchfit.

Modern American conservatism is mental illness.

Unfortunately, modern Republicans don't believe in the 1st Amendment...
Well...save for the Free Exercise Clause. That bit is important enough to them. That appears as just the second protection enumerated in the Bill of Rights, with only the Establishment Clause coming before it. It's weird that they disregard the first protection while taking full of advantage of the second, and when I say that it's weird, of course I really mean that it's not.
By jailing people for expressing themselves, a right that people have literally fought and died for?
I appreciated the rest of your post, but I'm compelled to note that incarceration is an unlikely outcome subsequent to action against supposed violations of this law. What this law does is affect action by school districts under threat of lawsuits via a new private cause of [legal] action. The aim is to have school districts remove educators who have perpetrated supposed violations of the law or even preemptively remove individuals believed capable of perpetrating supposed violations.

Per the text, "if a concern is not resolved by the school district, a parent may: ... bring an action against the school district to obtain a declaratory judgment that the school district procedure or practice violates this paragraph and seek injunctive relief. A court may award damages and shall award reasonable attorney fees and court costs to a parent who receives declaratory or injunctive relief."

As I said before, the rat ****ers are attempting to chill disfavored (by them), protected speech by weaponizing the courts and harnessing the litigiousness of the aggrieved.
 
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Yeah, but I asked you the question, not them.
I think it's truly spectacular that you believe that because someone answered a question before the person you asked the answer given to you is null and void.



Why should an entertainment company poke its opinion into something that has nothing to do with their business?
Why did Donald Trump give his opinion on the fabricated controversy with Obama's birth certificate when he was just some idiot who hosted a reality show? Do marriage rights have much of anything to do with fried chicken restaurants? Do abortion rights have anything to do with arts and crafts stores?



Or are those all fine because you were told they were different from the things by the "Woke Leftist Twitter mob"?
 
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