FRL - ToCA17 ~ Week 8 - BRANDS GP FINALE!
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Q1 lobby open.
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Seeing I got DQed from last week's race for an incident which was 0% my fault, I assume Furi will be consistent with his stewarding and DQ half the field (including himself). Should definitely mix up the points.
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Was I lagging tonight? I feel like I was.
Sorry for a couple of sends tonight as well, not really sure why I kept missing my braking zones
Sorry for a couple of sends tonight as well, not really sure why I kept missing my braking zones
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I saw some lagging, but I assume it was the servers being unstable.
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There was a couple possibly lagging on my end since the servers have been wonky tonight.
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STEWARDING - FUJI:
Retrospective - Brands Hatch Indy
~ @RedPartyhat launched an appeal for Brands Hatch Indy. The original decision of Exclusion from the weekend by the ToCA Stewards (myself, @GTPorsche , @LancerEvo7 ,@Panoz ) has been upheld. I was willing to individually review all three races myself and go through them. Quite simply, the attitude displayed and persistence shown in refusing to let stewards do their job led to a unanimous decision to uphold the original decision. A word on the matter - You cannot complain about driving standards, and then not bother reporting anything in first two rounds, using as an excuse "it's what i've come to expect from FRL", and then complain about things yourself. You only got this penalty because of complaints from over six other drivers about your conduct on-track, and action was taken as a result. Your off-track conduct as well - in pestering stewards, deciding to tag irrelevant parties on the FRL Discord server, and getting your friends to send sarcastic PM's on your behalf pretty much sealed the deal. This decision is final, and no further comment will be forthcoming from the ToCA Stewarding team.
~ BMW HMS BREXIT HAULERS (RFLX) queried the decision to have @gokartman78 counted as an Independent at Brands Hatch Indy with @RedPartyhat & @Niop scoring for the Manufacturer-Teams championship. On further review, it's been decided that the original tables will be adjusted and @gokartman78 will be retrospectively changed to score Manufacturer points at Brands Hatch Indy, with @RedPartyhat the other way to Independents. It is appreciated that there was some confusion in the messaging between myself & the RFLX team members as to who was scoring points and for how long, not helped by RPH having a Manufacturer-plated car. As a result as well - from now on all Manufacturer-nominated drivers will be automatically registered for points for their team unless an exception is noted (such as at the season-opener), and then after that event reverts back to the original nominated drivers. Tables are being updated to reflect this.
Round #7
~ @Furi issued a strike for contact with Niop. As it is a 2nd strike, triggers 3pt penalty to OVERALL score.
Round #8
~ @MattJoy issued a strike for contact with Panoz.
General
~ @gokartman78 Driving Standards warning.
ROUND RESULTS - FUJI:
A welcome to @MattJoy & a returning @Matty .
CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS AFTER WEEK #3:
Overall:
4% weight for @Ninners , 2% for @GTPorsche @cnd01 , 1% for @LancerEvo7
Independents:
Manufacturer-Teams:
See you at Interlagos this weekend!
Retrospective - Brands Hatch Indy
~ @RedPartyhat launched an appeal for Brands Hatch Indy. The original decision of Exclusion from the weekend by the ToCA Stewards (myself, @GTPorsche , @LancerEvo7 ,@Panoz ) has been upheld. I was willing to individually review all three races myself and go through them. Quite simply, the attitude displayed and persistence shown in refusing to let stewards do their job led to a unanimous decision to uphold the original decision. A word on the matter - You cannot complain about driving standards, and then not bother reporting anything in first two rounds, using as an excuse "it's what i've come to expect from FRL", and then complain about things yourself. You only got this penalty because of complaints from over six other drivers about your conduct on-track, and action was taken as a result. Your off-track conduct as well - in pestering stewards, deciding to tag irrelevant parties on the FRL Discord server, and getting your friends to send sarcastic PM's on your behalf pretty much sealed the deal. This decision is final, and no further comment will be forthcoming from the ToCA Stewarding team.
~ BMW HMS BREXIT HAULERS (RFLX) queried the decision to have @gokartman78 counted as an Independent at Brands Hatch Indy with @RedPartyhat & @Niop scoring for the Manufacturer-Teams championship. On further review, it's been decided that the original tables will be adjusted and @gokartman78 will be retrospectively changed to score Manufacturer points at Brands Hatch Indy, with @RedPartyhat the other way to Independents. It is appreciated that there was some confusion in the messaging between myself & the RFLX team members as to who was scoring points and for how long, not helped by RPH having a Manufacturer-plated car. As a result as well - from now on all Manufacturer-nominated drivers will be automatically registered for points for their team unless an exception is noted (such as at the season-opener), and then after that event reverts back to the original nominated drivers. Tables are being updated to reflect this.
Round #7
~ @Furi issued a strike for contact with Niop. As it is a 2nd strike, triggers 3pt penalty to OVERALL score.
Round #8
~ @MattJoy issued a strike for contact with Panoz.
General
~ @gokartman78 Driving Standards warning.
ROUND RESULTS - FUJI:
A welcome to @MattJoy & a returning @Matty .
CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS AFTER WEEK #3:
Overall:
4% weight for @Ninners , 2% for @GTPorsche @cnd01 , 1% for @LancerEvo7
Independents:
Manufacturer-Teams:
See you at Interlagos this weekend!
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Now will I be able to race at Interlagos this time after being screwed over by connection incompatibility last time out
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Great to see you've finally admitted to not even reviewing the incidents before making your initial decision. Though, not surprised this is your standard of objectivity.
I never stopped you from doing your job. You're being quite ambiguous here or flat out lying. In reality, I was pushing you to do your job, and providing proper standards on how to do your job better.
You're right, I shouldn't complain. And you're right, nothing has changed.
Also FWIW, what I'm complaining about is if you actually held everyone to the same stewarding standard as you did for me, there wouldn't even be a TOCA, and it's possible that you'd be the first one dismissed.
By this logic, I can create mob mentality against a certain driver and you would end up DQing them without actually reviewing the facts. Not that you ever cared to in the first place.
You took eleven days to make a decision with providing zero feedback. Quit being arrogant on this point, that's on you.
Like what does this mean? I used the tag feature on the discord server? Am I not allowed to use that? Also I used it to publicize your decision. Do you not take pride in your stewarding? Were you ashamed that I did that?
I never did that. Now you're making accusations and acting on them with no basis? No Facts? Guess I can't be surprised here.
I'm not aware of any PMs you received from others. They act independently and you should penalize them independently. But what do I know.
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I'm probably the one @Furi is referring to, and yes I can confirm I acted entirely on my own volition since the vagueness of the earlier post (specifically the lack of any mentions of individual incidents) rustled my jimmies quite a bit.
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@Furi So I was curious how bad @RedPartyhat's driving must have been to get him DQ'd from an entire weekend so decided to have a look through all 3 races from his perspective using Nin's replay uploads.
I was surprised (more disappointed in the stewarding) to see that in R1+2 not only did he not hit anyone off track, but as far as I could tell gained no advantage from contact with other people at all and didn't cause anyone to lose any significant time or any positions. In fact the only incident I would give a penalty for would be R3 L9 divebomb on @Foxed which in general wasn't the worst incident I saw in the 3 races by a long shot.
There was also a weird incident in R3 with @gokartman78 as well where RPH crashed into him after a spin, but guessing RPH couldn't turn or something under braking to avoid? Either way GKM is a slow noob so I doubt anyone cares about that one.
Just my 2 cents but I tend to agree with RPH that if his driving in those 3 races warranted a full weekend DQ then you'd probably lose at least a quarter of the field each week. Also, the Q2 incident could have easily been avoided by Nin, it's quite clear he thought RPH's car would stay ghosted and if you assume that in GT you're going to crash.
I was surprised (more disappointed in the stewarding) to see that in R1+2 not only did he not hit anyone off track, but as far as I could tell gained no advantage from contact with other people at all and didn't cause anyone to lose any significant time or any positions. In fact the only incident I would give a penalty for would be R3 L9 divebomb on @Foxed which in general wasn't the worst incident I saw in the 3 races by a long shot.
There was also a weird incident in R3 with @gokartman78 as well where RPH crashed into him after a spin, but guessing RPH couldn't turn or something under braking to avoid? Either way GKM is a slow noob so I doubt anyone cares about that one.
Just my 2 cents but I tend to agree with RPH that if his driving in those 3 races warranted a full weekend DQ then you'd probably lose at least a quarter of the field each week. Also, the Q2 incident could have easily been avoided by Nin, it's quite clear he thought RPH's car would stay ghosted and if you assume that in GT you're going to crash.
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I have to agree with this.
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Why should Nin have to throw away a lap because someone else decided to park on the racing line after crashing? RPH should've stayed in the grass. For what it's worth that probably would've been knocked back to a strike had we not decided to just uphold everything.
Race 3 would've been a DQ no matter what, you don't just drive straight into someone like that in a race, even if you're 'just trying to help him get pointed the right direction' or whatever the justification was.
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I have trouble with these tires.
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@Niop congratulations
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Two points here seeing you finally responded.
1. If you critically reviewed your own upload, you would see my car had rejoined the track initially...out of control.
You can clearly see I go wide, clip the dirt and lose control, wherein my car “parked on the racing line” as you say. You see 100% of my car on the racing line for one second. The next second, you see 90% of my car off the track. Unfortunately, the biggest culprit here is PD unghosting me at the worst time not giving ninners time to react.
Here is the upload for all to watch.
As I stated to both Furi and Jon, as unfortunate as it was, it was never my intention to ruin anyone’s Q and I did try my best to get off the track. Neither of them responded when I said this.
2. According to Furinkazen, only incidents that are reported get investigated. Shall I get a quote from him saying this? Did @gokartman78 report this incident? Ironically, the incident is similar to me and @Ninners but I am the one in Ninner’s position, yet I am the one being disciplined.
You guys are upset that I am constantly pestering you when you don’t realize I got DQed for literally no reason while also being one of the more courteous drivers in this league compared to others. You hide it under the vague of “attempting to improve this series” when you don’t realize you are hurting the series and punishing me when I am trying to HELP IT.
@LancerEvo7 I know you’re better then this.
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Yup. I usually give room to ghosted cars and this one time I didn't and paid the price. Ultimately I was one corner into a quali lap so the loss was minimal and I have no issue with that, hence why I didn't bring it up. I had room to work with.
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Honestly this whole situation is completely blown out of proportion. I was involved in worse wrecks at Fuji, some of which my own fault and nothing has been said to me about it. Feels like a gas lighting of @RedPartyhat for no reason.
Also some of the responses from @Furi in my opinion have been childish or flat out confusing.
RPH asked when Furi would look at it, Furi response 'after this evening'. Which apparently meant sometime during the week as he doesn't review on weekends, fair enough.
Then he made a point about personally reviewing incidents. Surely any review which has such harsh punishment should be reviewed by the series organiser BEFORE the punishment is handed out?
The situation has been horribly managed and both sides of it look like they are out to personally get each other rather then the correct result at this point.
Also some of the responses from @Furi in my opinion have been childish or flat out confusing.
RPH asked when Furi would look at it, Furi response 'after this evening'. Which apparently meant sometime during the week as he doesn't review on weekends, fair enough.
Then he made a point about personally reviewing incidents. Surely any review which has such harsh punishment should be reviewed by the series organiser BEFORE the punishment is handed out?
The situation has been horribly managed and both sides of it look like they are out to personally get each other rather then the correct result at this point.
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I want to readdress a point made in Furi's final verdict post
.
@Furi @LancerEvo7 here's my complaint. I complained that you did not take action on the multiple racing incidents that I was a victim in during Spa, involving getting sandbagged in Q and getting sent of as a missile more than once. I was told nothing would be done as I hadn't reported any incidents. Fair enough. Like I said, I didn't bother because it's what I've come to expect as the norm.
Suddenly I am getting...not warned, not striked...but 3x DQed for incidents that were never reported. One race later, suddenly you guys are helicoptering every incident but for some reason reported or not. And for some reason I'm the one your target is locked on.
Like I said, I'm not defending my actions on the track. I went slightly wide and made a mistake. It happens. It's funny because I've only apologized to Furi and Jon because they are the ones who referenced it even though they aren't even involved. I would apologize to Ninners if he had come up to me after in the incident but he never even felt it was worth the time as he states "I have no issue with that".
Like I said, if you want TOCA to be different, then it starts with those who lead it. Right now, it's clearly going backwards.
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