From GT5 to FM3

[HBR-Roadhog]

What can you suggest to me? Changing console is in your opinion the right choice?
Sorry if my english is not good...

I certianly would not get rid of my PS3 and buy an Xbox at this point if that is what you mean. I mean you have not even played GT5 yet and it is so close. Anyone who owns a PS3 and enjoys racing games owes it to themselves to get this game.

If you have a PS3 and you can afford Xbox too then by all means get one of those too. Forza is a good game overall. It has it's good points and bad points but if you like racing games it is as good as it gets on the Xbox.

 

[McLaren]

Just FYI, GT has always suffered from the same high speed physics. In fact, nearly all games do.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

Just FYI, GT has always suffered from the same high speed physics. In fact, nearly all games do.

Gasp!! Blasphemy.
GT is perfect. Period. No flaws, no shortcomings. Ever.

 

[boxox]

Just FYI, GT has always suffered from the same high speed physics. In fact, nearly all games do.

Yep. Very hard to drive a simulated car if it accurately simulates high speed aero effects (front lifting off a hell of a lot, rear lifting off a bit less) on ordinary road cars. Almost every game instead makes it so that no matter what you still have net downforce on both front and rear at any speed.

 

[VXR]

LMAO at all those bullet points.

Cars Lift-off at will in my copy, don't have as much grip as a real car - and my road cars haven't been anything specialist - and most off all, FM3's handling model is nuanced enough so that you can drive balls out or neatly and hardly catch oversteer/understeer of any kind. I could record a video of all these points being countered with one vehicle if I could be bothered, but why try to educate the trolls? I'm sure all people who are man enough to allow FM into their life as GT fans know Forza is easily equal to GT for console simulation.

Like how someone claimed even powerful 4WD cars like the Mine's GTR didn't power-oversteer and yet I had it do so within a few corners of Fujimi Kaido.

 

[Terronium-12]

LMAO at all those bullet points.

Cars Lift-off at will in my copy, don't have as much grip as a real car - and my road cars haven't been anything specialist - and most off all, FM3's handling model is nuanced enough so that you can drive balls out or neatly and hardly catch oversteer/understeer of any kind. I could record a video of all these points being countered with one vehicle if I could be bothered, but why try to educate the trolls? I'm sure all people who are man enough to allow FM into their life as GT fans know Forza is easily equal to GT for console simulation.

Like how someone claimed even powerful 4WD cars like the Mine's GTR didn't power-oversteer and yet I had it do so within a few corners of Fujimi Kaido.

I'm glad that was fixed, because in FM2 4WD cars were seemingly impossible to oversteer in, or spin out.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

One big flaw in the Forza 3 engine is that you can raise the front all the way up and set the rear all the way down and your car will go faster. Also if you set the front springs stiff and rear springs soft the car will go faster. Of course the cars do not drive very good with these settings but on a track like Becnhmark speedway you can get 2-3 mph faster by using these messed up settings.

btw you could get awd cars to oversteer in FM2 also you just have to know what to do to the tuning. In fact I think it was easier to get an AWD to oversteer in FM2 than it is in FM3.

As for it being equal to GT that remains to be seen.

 

[Terronium-12]

One big flaw in the Forza 3 engine is that you can raise the front all the way up and set the rear all the way down and your car will go faster. Also if you set the front springs stiff and rear springs soft the car will go faster. Of course the cars do not drive very good with these settings but on a track like Becnhmark speedway you can get 2-3 mph faster by using these messed up settings.

btw you could get awd cars to oversteer in FM2 also you just have to know what to do to the tuning. In fact I think it was easier to get an AWD to oversteer in FM2 than it is in FM3.

As for it being equal to GT that remains to be seen.

Really? I have to go back to FM2 and take some 4WD cars around some tracks then.

 

[VXR]

Of the two GTs I own, both have serious flaws. GT2 because of its rubber banding and GT4 for its god-awful physics model where no car drives like any car I've ever driven.

GT5 could well feel better to me, but I'd only base it on how it feels to me. If I prefer it to Forza, I'll happily admit it.

 

[paddycars1]

LOVE BOTH GAMES.but forza has let it's self down with the rewind and the wheel.tuning is very hard in forza but that's good.but why do you think its taking GT5 so long to be released?

 

[Antti-san]

I don't see the point of arguing over which is better as both could learn a lot from looking at each others game.

This! 👍

 

[infamousDee]

Just FYI, GT has always suffered from the same high speed physics. In fact, nearly all games do.

Nonsense. Just look how FM3's physics engine ignores all the bumps on the straight at La Sarthe here.

I'm sure all people who are man enough to allow FM into their life as GT fans know Forza is easily equal to GT for console simulation.

..and no, the physics aren't even close to GT.

 

[McLaren]

Nonsense. Just look how FM3's physics engine ignores all the bumps on the straight at La Sarthe here.

Then PD got their act together. Past GT games were the same as what you critique Forza for.

..and no, the physics aren't even close to GT.

Let's play the game first, then make statements.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

Interesting side by side there. Admittedly, I'm a massive forza fan and I didn't like GTProlog much. I'm excited for GT5 though.
I have a thought. GT5 definitely looks rougher on the mulsanne straight. The outside view of the car shows it rocking around like a boat on choppy water. Looked pretty silly to me, but the dead smooth of Forza in the same spot looks silly too. All I care about here is if the bumps will be conveyed to the driver through the wheel. If the bumps are for show only and can't be felt then there's no point in having them.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Then PD got their act together. Past GT games were the same as what you critique Forza for.


Let's play the game first, then make statements.

Past GT games? I have only played GT4 a lot and have played both Forza 2 and 3 a lot. The first thing I noticed on Forza is how smooth the car feels on Nurburgring, especially on that fast section just before you get to the final straight. On GT4 this section is very bumpy, so much so that it is hard to hold some cars on the road and others will bottom out several times through here yet on Forza this track feels smooth. In fact I can not think of a single track on Forza 2 or 3 where you feel much in the way of bumps other than rumble strips and of course if you run off the road.

GT4 on the other hand had very noticable bumps on Lemans, Nurburgring, Seattle and El-Capitan.


Edit: I just remembered the cobble stone tracks in Forza 3. Those you can feel but they are the only ones I can think of right off.

 

[VXR]

The Nurb GP has been modeled by T10 to have bumps, which funnily enough, unsettle the car. Don't blame the physics model because of tracks being smoothed out for online play.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The Nurb GP has been modeled by T10 to have bumps, which funnily enough, unsettle the car. Don't blame the physics model because of tracks being smoothed out for online play.

So you are saying that it is the track physics that are wrong rather than the car physics?

Forza 3 physics are not bad. I like the way the cars drive but there are some problems in it for sure. I also have not noticed many bumps on the GP tracks either. There are some changes in elevation that will unsettle the car as the weight shifts but that is the only thing I can think of there.

 

[VXR]

I believe they're just not very good at replicating tracks.

 

[12thgear]

I believe they're just not very good at replicating tracks.

Could be. There might be a number of reasons. Perhaps Turn 10 outsourced a lot of track mapping and modeling too, or perhaps they were a lot less hands-on than Polyphony, as far as personally visiting tracks. The best way to reproduce life in art is to observe and experience very thoroughly.

 

[Bogie 19th]

• With the exception of power oversteer, which is easily corrected regardless, oversteer is essentially non-
  existent.
  
• Lift-off oversteer due to loss of aerodynamic grip is non-existent
• Understeer is practically non-existent, even when thrashing high-powered, front wheel drive vehicles.
• Cars have far more grip than their real-life counterparts.
• Cars are ridiculously stable at high speeds. When driving at high speeds in reality, hitting a dip in the road could send you into a tank-slapper. This behaviour is non-existent in Forza.
• The "magic carpet effect" caused by the active steering aid that can't be switched off in the settings menu.

I have to say, I am surprised that you actually voluntarily posted such rubbish (wait, no, I am not surprised). The only items that are actually true is the stability at high speed and grip. But then again, I have the exact same experience in GT Academy and GT5p. It seemed to be the same issue even in the short time I spent with the demo at Target.

..and no, the physics aren't even close to GT.

I agree with this as well. Hopefully GT5 retail improves this beyond Forza 3's. I think they can, but based on the demo at Target (old build), it's not there yet.

 

[The_Paladin]

Forza is hardly just about super cars. Various RenaultSports, Vauxhall VXRs, Volvos, Saabs, Peugeots, Focus ST and RS, new Fiesta and many more. Yeah, it might shy away from entry-level econoboxes like GT4 had, but it's hardly all about its super cars.

Id say is more about Supercars than other cars, thats what great about Forza, theres lots of great cars no matter what kind of car fan you are. To me is by far the best car selection in a game, even supercar games like Hot Pursuit cant compete againts all the great rides in Forza.
Thats the best thing about the game in my opinion.

 

[newbielives]

Been playing a lot of Forza3 lately in my intense wait for GT5 to be released and I'll say it again, what a fun game it is to play but in no way does it compare with GT5p in physics and graphics. Even track detail eg road surface, is sorely flat and missing but never the less, what a fun game it is to play. The car selection, customization and tracks eg Kaido, Sebring, Road America, all unfounded in other racing games are a blast to play. Can't wait for Forza4 and possibly a 250$ range Wheel with H-Shift and clutch that will work with the 360. Also please for the love of racing games, when the users selects all aids off when using a wheel, could they just turn the freaking aids off.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Sounds like you want a Fanatec Turbo S but the price is going to be about $100 more than your number. The good thing is it works with the PS3 and the PC as well.

For me the large selection of super cars is dissapointing in that the PI is so messed up most of them are not competitive. It seems that no matter what cars they put into the game only a small handful get really good performance in a given class where others move into the next class before they reach the same performance.

They really need to work on this for Forza 4.

 

[ibuycheap]

Id say is more about Supercars than other cars, thats what great about Forza, theres lots of great cars no matter what kind of car fan you are. To me is by far the best car selection in a game, even supercar games like Hot Pursuit cant compete againts all the great rides in Forza.
Thats the best thing about the game in my opinion.

Forza has lots of cars but really there are only a few different cars: mid engine car rwd, mid engine car awd ... and so on. When they finally added the GTR to forza, for example in gt5p you could feel that the active diffs were modeled in the games physics for that car but in forza it was just another front engine awd car.

This could all just be due to Polyphony's love affair with the skyline, (how many of those in the car list), but it's a significant difference in their attention to detail.

 

[ObtuseChicken]

As many have said GT5 isn't out yet but here's the facts...(with some opinion)

Forza 3
More real-life tracks
Less cars, 400 which are all equal (so all can be upgraded etc)
Decent sized Career mode (opinion)
Good graphics but not on the same level as GT5 (opinion)
Not as many in-depth tuning options/upgrades
No real wheel support (opinion)
Physics which resemble more of an arcade game (opinion)
Online- 16 players
No weather
No rally (apart from tarmac)

GT5
1031 cars- only 200 can be upgraded and have cockpit view- the others are 'standard'
Fantastic graphics (opinion but I'd hope you all agree)
Less real-life tracks
Good wheel support
Good tuning/customisation
Physics- Unknown but (opinion) looking promising
Dynamic weather
Head tracking
3D support
Rally
NASCAR (with pit-stops and sparks!)
Night racing
32 player online (16 racing and 16 spectating)

That's just my little overview but really it's up to you. Sure, Forza 3's been a great game for me, really enjoyable, but now come GT5 I'm moving on.

If I were you, well, I think you know the answer. When you look at it, GT5 has a lot more in terms of features than Forza 3.

Also this:

Then PD got their act together. Past GT games were the same as what you critique Forza for.

Flat surfaces was probably the most offputting thing about GT in the past and I really hope they've sorted it out for good.

 

[bossman88]

I have FM3 its decent , it help me wait for GT5 now its there my xbox is for sale

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

As many have said GT5 isn't out yet but here's the facts...(with some opinion)

Forza 3
More real-life tracks
Less cars, 400 which are all equal (so all can be upgraded etc)
Decent sized Career mode (opinion)
Good graphics but not on the same level as GT5 (opinion)
Not as many in-depth tuning options/upgrades
No real wheel support (opinion)
Physics which resemble more of an arcade game (opinion)
Online- 16 players
No weather
No rally (apart from tarmac)

Really? Let's see.
Real Word tracks in Forza but not in GT5
Sebring
Silverstone
Road Atlanta
Road America
Motegi
Lemans Bugatti Course

In GT5 but not in Forza
Fuji
Monza
Daytona
Indy
Monaco
24hr Nurburgring

Cars in Forza are far from equal, many cars are totally non competive in thier class as well as higher classes once upgraded and it gets worse with every car pack.

Career mode in Forza 3 is totally lame an boring. No incentives to complete other than a few achivement points. No prize cars, no rankings, no leaderboards, to easy to win, no reason to run any of them other than earn some cash which can be done faster in multiplayer mode.

Can't compare the tuning/upgrades to GT yet but Forza is not bad in this department with the exception of the stupid AWD upgrades that should never have been put in.

The Fanatec 911 Turbo S wheel works fine with Forza so that one is just flat out wrong.

8 Players online in Forza not 16...

Edit: Even with only 8 it is not uncommon to see cars half in the pavement, flying 10 feet above the track and other such glitches.

GT5
1031 cars- only 200 can be upgraded and have cockpit view- the others are 'standard'
Fantastic graphics (opinion but I'd hope you all agree)
Less real-life tracks
Good wheel support
Good tuning/customisation
Physics- Unknown but (opinion) looking promising
Dynamic weather
Head tracking
3D support
Rally
NASCAR (with pit-stops and sparks!)
Night racing
32 player online (16 racing and 16 spectating)

That's just my little overview but really it's up to you. Sure, Forza 3's been a great game for me, really enjoyable, but now come GT5 I'm moving on.

If I were you, well, I think you know the answer. When you look at it, GT5 has a lot more in terms of features than Forza 3.

What makes you think that only 200 cars can be upgraded? I have saw that you can not change the wheels on standards but I have not saw anything to make me think that you can not add horsepower, suspension, tranny and such.

GT Original tracks are better than most in Forza though Maple Valley, Fuji Kiado and Positano are good, the rest not so much.


Edit: For those who think there are to many Skylines in GT keep in mind that there are 13 of them in Forza as well. There is also a boat load of Audis.

 

[Bogie 19th]

As many have said GT5 isn't out yet but here's the facts...(with some opinion)

Forza 3
More real-life tracks (looks like they have the same amount)
Less cars, 400 which are all equal (so all can be upgraded etc) (Forza has 500+)
Decent sized Career mode (opinion)
Good graphics but not on the same level as GT5 (opinion)
Not as many in-depth tuning options/upgrades (more from what I have seen)
No real wheel support (opinion) (Fanatec support is awesome, but needs more wheel choices)
Physics which resemble more of an arcade game (opinion)(disagree, but you did say opinion)
Online- 16 players (8 players)
No weather
No rally (apart from tarmac)

My comments in red.

That's just my little overview but really it's up to you. Sure, Forza 3's been a great game for me, really enjoyable, but now come GT5 I'm moving on.

I will still be racing in both, but I will be concentrating on GT5 much more now. At least until FM4 comes out next year.

If I were you, well, I think you know the answer. When you look at it, GT5 has a lot more in terms of features than Forza 3.

Not seeing it.

 

[Eric.]

Once again, how is GT's career mode so thrilling? Pretty much ALL racing games go about their "career" mode as a list of available races, different restrictions on them, pick a car that fits those restrictions and go race. Win, get a reward.

I actually could care less about winning a Toyota Vitz myself, or half the other lame prize cars in GT. And instead of doing it race-by-race, Forza rewards cars based on you moving up through the driver levels. Big deal.

Re: Skylines

GT has several identical cars, including Skylines (seems the S2000 is one of the worst culprits this time). Forza has one R32, one R33, one R34. If you include them, the Skyline Coupe (i.e., G35/G37 here) models are in, and so is the new GT-R. The only duplication is that you can also get the Infiniti G35 and G37, but at least those are under a different brand. The rest of the Skylines in Forza are the Mine's R32 and R34 (which being tuned, make them irrelevant to be consider dupes) and a handful of JGTC cars.

PD manages to put the two Special Color Midnight Purple Metallic (or whatever, you know what I mean) cars as their own unique car.


Re: Tuning

Pretty sure FM3 has more parts available than GT, which always lumps larger groups of parts together in one upgrade. We also have no idea what we can do as far as body mods in GT. We know there's no engine or drivetrain swaps. So you can't go calling Forza's upgrade system "decent" compared to GT5 yet. And the actual tuning has more options (and units associated with them!).


Don't forget that night racing and weather are only available on a couple of tracks.

 

[VXR]

Considering T10 had images of Forza running in the rain on their wallboard about a year ago, it's almost certain they will have had the time to add it into FM4.