From GT5 to FM3

[HBR-Roadhog]

The FWD understeer I'm referring to wasn't in GT5P either as the understeer seems to base on the car's speed. Hopefully Gt5 has made some improvements in this area.

I don't drive many FWD cars in Forza but the power understeer is there in the AWD cars and if using TC is there in many RWD cars as well. I would assume that it is more pronouced in FWD cars than either RWD or AWD.

 

[VXR]

I've just driven the Conti GT SuperSports and that behemoth is understeer city!

The early section of Le Sarthe is not ideal for it.

 

[Eric.]

Forza 3 braking physics is similar to F1 2010 in that if you start to oversteer just apply the brakes will straighten your car up. Unlike F1 2010 you can lock up the brakes going straight in FM3. Also in Race Pro (Race 07) driving FWD race cars you can tell you sacrifices grip steering the car when you step on the gas in the corners. (power understeering?) This is absent in FM 3.

That is great. I don't even believe you've played FM3 now. Unless you're driving like a stock Rabbit with an LSD and huge slicks, every FWD car has throttle-understeer. Get one without an LSD and you'll have the inside wheel spinning away under slow corner exits. Get something with 200+hp and an LSD and you'll have more grip available, but once you do break traction both tires may be spinning and you'll have worse understeer than without an LSD.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

You right I wasn't playing FM3 after all I was playing Forza Motorsport 3. My mistake. Now if there are FWD in FM3 that throttle-understeer I haven't experience them.

 

[Eric.]

So you're saying you just keep the throttle mashed through every turn with FWD cars, right?

 

[Spencer]

Eric, beware the troll!

 

[infamousDee]

So you're saying you just keep the throttle mashed through every turn with FWD cars, right?

Understeer occurs when a car's front tires loose grip. Just because you have to slow down for corners it doesn't mean you're experiencing understeer.

 

[Eric.]

Uh...


That's actually exactly what understeer is. If you try to turn and the car runs wide, that is understeer. Its actually a pretty simple concept.

Besides that is not what he is saying. He's claiming that you can mash the gas of a FWD mid-corner and it does not affect the line the car takes. It quite obviously does and to say otherwise does not give any other comments much credit.

 

[LaBounti]

In fairness due to my ignorance on the Ford Focus RS I thought it was AWD because I could floor it mid corner and not slide off the road. I assumed the under steer I did get was AWD related(because of the easy throttle lift turn in with out under steer.) until I saw its drive train and was surprised. I assumed it was AWD because who in there right mind would put a 300HP motor in a FWD compact .

 

[Bogie 19th]

Understeer occurs when a car's front tires loose grip. Just because you have to slow down for corners it doesn't mean you're experiencing understeer.

You should do some research on what understeer is.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I must say, having played GT since the 90s it was so different playing FM3 at my friend's place last week.

I got blown away by the car choice and the ALMS tracks available (I went berserk when I saw the special 2007 Flying Lizard Le Mans car). But I had severe issues playing the game, though. Even at very high speeds, the brakes would instantly lock-up when applying full brake force. Massive understeer going in, and massive oversteer going out.

It may be due to the pad, though. Using L2 and R2 as brake/throttle was the most awkward set-up I had experienced, and after playing an hour I realized I personally would use a decent wheel if I wanted to enjoy the game to its fullest extent. If I'd own the console, game, a decent wheel and some decent FM3 driving skills, I'd probably drive that Flying Lizard car around Laguna Seca, La Sarthe or Sebring non-stop!

 

[Kreepnslayer]

Exactly how fast were you going? Race track corners are often sharper than most corners on the road and hopefully are banked as well. With increase speed tires can lose their grips a lot more easy. In sims you don't get the sense of speed since you don't feel the G-forces so it a lot easier to go too fast around corners so game cheats a little by given the player more grip than IRL.

The speed on the corners I was traveling doesn't necessarily matter in my attempt at being humorous. What I'm saying is that grip levels in Forza 3 are a lot closer to real life than people think. From my experience with GT prolog, Forza 1 and Forza 2 grip was minimal. The cars didn't have enough. Even at low speeds car drove like they were on ice. Just because the grip level was increased for Forza 3 doesn't mean it's not more accurate. I believe the opposit to be true. I even tested some of the same cars in comparison. (2006 dodge charger, 2010 Porsche Boxster). You'd be surprised how familiar and similar both of these cars feel to their FM3 counterparts.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Forza 2 grip levels were fine. In fact on many cars they were better than Forza 3. Forza 2 had a much bigger selection of tires and in that selection you could get a wide variety of grip levels, rigidity and wear life. For some reason they took this away in Forza 3.

As to the understeer going in and oversteer coming out. Shock settings on most RWD cars have a big effect on this and pretty much all cars in Forza 3 have the front sway bar tighter than the rear inducing some understeer reducing the front rebound and rear bump will help a lot of many cars reducing both understeer on entry and oversteer on exit as it changes the way the weight is transfered a bit.

 

[Eric.]

F3 guys...Go buy a Playstation !!!!!

I like my interiors and mechanical damage, thanks. And I have a PS3.

 

[mykem]

I like my interiors and mechanical damage, thanks. And I have a PS3.

Mechanical damage will either appear as the game progresses or in future updates. And GT5 interior is simply amazing. Working wipers, display on race cars that actually work and the sensation that you're actually driving a car on pavement/dirt/snow instead of just gliding on the track.

And the Nordschleife: instead of the flat almost level pavement/road you get in FM2 and FM3 which neither feel nor look like the actual track, the one in GT5 is bumpy and undulating and every bit as real as you will ever get. Add to that the dynamic weather, the physics and feel of the car,well, the entire experience has one word attach to it: sublime. To overlook this game because of the few things that you may or may not like, is quite mind-boggling.

[YOUTUBEHD]Qc6TfWx67XI&hd=1[/YOUTUBEHD]

 

[Eric.]

The more I read in the GT5 forum the more I just sit back and laugh at how unfinished the game is and how stupid some things are. You unlock damage? You have to get "tickets" to be able to repaint your car, and that ticket determines what color it'll be? So many things sound rushed and like half-finished projects that got left in the final build.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well I can tell you that there are some things in Forza that I really wish were in GT5 like being able to chat with your friends while in career mode, leaderboards and an invite to race option.

I can also tell you that I had more fun racing online last night in GT5 than I have had in the last year playing Forza 3.

 

[GT5_Tuning_vs_F]

If you care about realistic physics, avoid FM3.

I love gt5 since i was a baby but... sorry to say forza got them... i play both games and have both systems, so i compared them..
-Forza has way deeper engine tuning. and swaps (all cars can have turbos!!!!!
-Forza has way better engine quality sounds
- GT5 has better graphics (only on the premium side)
- I think engine tuning is where it all matters... becuz in forza you can tune your car to the highest racing machine.. For example in gt5 i already bought a nice civic and tuned it to the max. (300hp and change), but in forza its deeper than just adding a vague stage 3 engine mod... Thats fake... fake is the oppposite of similator... But in forza my civic had 500hp with ease. (no engine swap either)!!!
- Forza also has better damage modelling...( scraped paint.. and such).. i love gt5 and im not a spammer but.... kaz got way more thinking to do...
-Gt5 has better car physics by far!!!
PLease comment back and let me get your thoughts.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

In Forza 3 you can drive a 1970 Mustang with a Ford GT Engine upgraded to 900+ horses and AWD which is not even close to what someone would do in reality. The engine upgrade option is cool but the AWD is just plain stupid and ruined the game IMO.

The 3 eninge tuning options is just a simple way of doing it. It is not fake but it is a bit more limited than Forza. Think of the engine upgrades as Stock, Street, Semi Race and Race where each upgrade gives the engine a set of mods that are matched to each other, heads, valves, ignition, fuel system. Same as if in Forza you were to add these parts at the same level.

One major difference in the two is the cars perform more true to life in GT than in Forza. In Forza performance is all over the board. You may have two different model cars with basically the same body style, weight, engine, tires and tuning yet be quite a ways apart in performance.

Also if you compare the performance of the cars in 3 to that of 2 you will see that some cars are now much slower or handle much worse and others are now much faster or handle much better. Clearly only one can be right but the reality is they are both off.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I love gt5 since i was a baby but... sorry to say forza got them... i play both games and have both systems, so i compared them..
-Forza has way deeper engine tuning. and swaps (all cars can have turbos!!!!!
-Forza has way better engine quality sounds
- GT5 has better graphics (only on the premium side)
- I think engine tuning is where it all matters... becuz in forza you can tune your car to the highest racing machine.. For example in gt5 i already bought a nice civic and tuned it to the max. (300hp and change), but in forza its deeper than just adding a vague stage 3 engine mod... Thats fake... fake is the oppposite of similator... But in forza my civic had 500hp with ease. (no engine swap either)!!!
- Forza also has better damage modelling...( scraped paint.. and such).. i love gt5 and im not a spammer but.... kaz got way more thinking to do...
-Gt5 has better car physics by far!!!
PLease comment back and let me get your thoughts.

I personally hated Forza 3 paint flying off damage. ( George of the Jungle damage, when he smacks into a tree the bark flies off) It's very superficial just like Dirt2 braking windshield effect. In Nascar with going 180+ MPH you hardly ever see paint flying off or windshield breaking so easy yet the car looked like a total wreck. I've seen the whole windshield fly off in one piece in a major wreck in Nascar.
Maybe Forza have better car engine sounds, it hard to tell but I really like Gt5 engine sound has more bass , Nice rumble coming from my Buttkicker. It seems Gt5 added bass when you hit another car as well which means you feel the hit with the Buttkicker as well.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Lots of interesting opinions here.

 

[GTsimms]

Yeah and when I compared graphic's GT5 was clearly better than Forza 3!

Negativity about GT5, if you want to complain! There is another game that might have your car. It will not be properly modeled in cockpit view, no wipers, no headlights,no night time racing(just bad daytime lighting, so crank up the brightness like a NASCAR race), no head tracking, no rain/snow/dirt, no wheel (MS wheel and the Fanatec are in very limited numbers.), make sure you wake up and turn it on at 3:00 am with your sunglasses off with that white menu screen, and there is more! Better off with Kinectable Motorsports 4 due in 2011.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Fanatec claims they have a new 360 wheel coming out soon. Hopefully it will be in Carrera price range.

 

[LaBounti]

The more I read in the GT5 forum the more I just sit back and laugh at how unfinished the game is and how stupid some things are. You unlock damage? You have to get "tickets" to be able to repaint your car, and that ticket determines what color it'll be? So many things sound rushed and like half-finished projects that got left in the final build.

Its still worth playing despite it list of design flaws. And I don't know what this unlock damage you hear is but it was always there for me. The paint system sucks beyond reason, though it adds to the social aspect having to ask a friend for a specific color, but since online is free none of the games features are closed away. After all of that it just plays beautifully and that alone is worth it. The track maker also adds to the gameplay. You seem to only justify the bad and without even playing it to find the good.

Stop reading about it and play it, you seem to only want to take the bad.

 

[Stevie0520]

with me i will give my opinion and thats all it is, since i have both games i can weigh the pros and cons of both games..but again its only my opinion...with both games ive played them since their first and loved both,

FM3 although the car selection is half of what GT5 is it is all in car cam with every car and the paint selection is amazing! no levels needed to buy a car just cash and the cars can be almost fully customized, tuning for cars is beyond what i could have ever imagined or hoped for...simply put FM3 kicked it up quite a few notches.....but the down side to FM3 its on the 360...which means you have to pay for internet play/ pay for DLC/ and always be on the lookout for the RROD ( Red Ring Of Death) plus on a personal side note (no drift smoke =[)

Now as for GT5, the wait was finally over!!! i was so excited i got the collectors pack and had my chrome line cars and all the goodies (and yes i got the FM3 one too ;]) and as i played i was amazed at the cars i saw and the selection there was.. every car i had ever seen read about and thought of and i could drive YAY!! (and as a Viper/350z[owner and fan]/Skyline/Lambo fan the model options are great) and some of the after market cars were so jaw dropping (i had to have them)....but to every good game there will be a downside...of the 1000+ cars a little more then half of them are "premium" which leaves about 6 to 700 cars standard after a 5 years wait i had hoped that a lot of them would be "premium" to a standard (but i digress) the customize option on GT5 falls short to FM3 by a long shot (but free internet)

so for me those are the differences im not going to choose a "winner" because like every game they have pros and cons..i know it is a long post but if you took the time to read this (thank you) and thats all i got to say about that (Forrest Gump)

 

[Eric.]

Its still worth playing despite it list of design flaws. And I don't know what this unlock damage you hear is but it was always there for me. The paint system sucks beyond reason, though it adds to the social aspect having to ask a friend for a specific color, but since online is free none of the games features are closed away. After all of that it just plays beautifully and that alone is worth it. The track maker also adds to the gameplay. You seem to only justify the bad and without even playing it to find the good.

Stop reading about it and play it, you seem to only want to take the bad.

I've been playing it and I've yet to even knock a bumper out of place...Not sure where they left the damage coding.

 

[Muzaffar]

I'm still playing Forza 3 here, just waiting for my PS3 to arrive. Currently playing Season 6 lol... but yeah, being a long time GT fan and suddenly jumping into Forza last year was take a long getting used to but over time I think Forza is okay though. Not as good or as fun as GT but certainly fills the void that has been left by GT4...

 

[430_Riviera]

In Forza 3 you can drive a 1970 Mustang with a Ford GT Engine upgraded to 900+ horses and AWD which is not even close to what someone would do in reality. The engine upgrade option is cool but the AWD is just plain stupid and ruined the game IMO.

Ford built two prototype 4wd mustangs in 1965. Contracted Ferguson of Jensen Interceptor fame to convert them. So yes, it is something that was done in real life. They also had an early form of ABS. I know this because one has been discovered just down the road from me, and is presently being restored to full working condition. The other was unfortunately crushed. The development notes in the trunk are amazing, even pictures of them running in the alps in snow during testing.

Point is anyone can do anything, with the correct resources. A known engine swap is an LS2 block in an RX7, I installed a 2.0 block with a spoon b16 head in a friends Civic for a laugh. My Father's Corvette C3 has a blueprinted, forged and stroked 500hp 383 in it...

The inability to perform engine swaps in GT is a long running bugbear. Forza is the more accurate tuning sim.

 

[Daddybird]

Ford built two prototype 4wd mustangs in 1965. Contracted Ferguson of Jensen Interceptor fame to convert them. So yes, it is something that was done in real life. They also had an early form of ABS. I know this because one has been discovered just down the road from me, and is presently being restored to full working condition. The other was unfortunately crushed. The development notes in the trunk are amazing, even pictures of them running in the alps in snow during testing.

Point is anyone can do anything, with the correct resources. A known engine swap is an LS2 block in an RX7, I installed a 2.0 block with a spoon b16 head in a friends Civic for a laugh. My Father's Corvette C3 has a blueprinted, forged and stroked 500hp 383 in it...

The inability to perform engine swaps in GT is a long running bugbear. Forza is the more accurate tuning sim.

Ah research!👍

You're right, you can mod a car any way you like and the engine swaps are awesome. It's not unrealistic at all, nothing changes to the physics engine it just gives you the possibility to do it, you don't have to, you could if you really wanted to in real life. And yes, GT5 tuning is very 1997.

 

[430_Riviera]

Ah research!👍

You're right, you can mod a car any way you like and the engine swaps are awesome. It's not unrealistic at all, nothing changes to the physics engine it just gives you the possibility to do it, you don't have to, you could if you really wanted to in real life. And yes, GT5 tuning is very 1997.

Ah yes, and I forgot the best example of all. The Focus RS8:

Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) used a sport-compact car to display the company's latest addition to an already powerful crate engine line-up – a modified Focus RS converted to rear-wheel drive and V-8 power – with the introduction of the Focus RS8 at this year's Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show.

Using the European Focus RS as a starting point, FRPP worked its engineering magic to mate its new, all-alloy, 5.0-liter 4-valve "Cammer" crate engine – cranking out a pavement-pounding 420 naturally aspirated horsepower – into the engine bay of the Focus. Although a handful of aftermarket firms have successfully mated Ford V-8 power with a Focus, the RS8 was built to show the versatility of a "Cammer" crate engine and "plug-and-play" engine electronics installation in a pure stock-looking Ford Focus.

So that'll be a rear drive converted Focus RS with a hefty V8 shoved in the front. Made by Ford themselves. With reference to other firms that have also offered such a swap. To top it all off, the conversion was available as a kit for around $20,000 to fit to any Focus, even the estate/wagon.