Who agrees with me that FWD cars are completely useless in this game without driving aids. Anything over 250hp or so is a headache to drive. The traction just isn't there. No matter how well you feather the throttle. And who wants to kill their lap times and/or fun with the boring traction control. Maybe my DS2 is making it extra tedious, but I'm starting to not even bother heavily modify anything thats FWD in this game. Im not even talking about the incredible understeer you experience with everything thats not light.
FWD so useless..
- Thread starter 4DSC
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- GTPLoon
- D1 Loon
...Yeah of course thats true, PD just asks you to do it for ghits and shiggles. You should tell Honda that while you're at it too.
- 1,099
- Texas
- Whiskey345ci
+1 @ Loon
Have you considered maybe tuning the car.
I have a few FWD with over 250hp and there are very drivable.
But you cant expect the car to handle if you cant tune it.
I believe Rotary Junkie has a DC5 setup posted in TCv3 that has 250-270hp.
Edit: Yes and theres numerous garages that feature FFs like RCV, MFT,
AT, Furious Fronts etc. Did you search for setups before you posted
this?
Have you considered maybe tuning the car.
I have a few FWD with over 250hp and there are very drivable.
But you cant expect the car to handle if you cant tune it.
I believe Rotary Junkie has a DC5 setup posted in TCv3 that has 250-270hp.
Edit: Yes and theres numerous garages that feature FFs like RCV, MFT,
AT, Furious Fronts etc. Did you search for setups before you posted
this?
Rotary Junkie
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nd 4 holden spd
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FWDs need the most expert tuning out of any vehicle. I have a Pontiac Sunfire at Aussie Tuners (tuned of course) that can run similar times to a standard R34 Skyline all day. S3 tyres too.
- 793
You obviously know nothing about racing.
Why is Group A div 1, JTCC, Super 2000, Speed Touring car, BTCC, WTCC, Super Takiyu, and other series use FWD?
Seriously... learn something about motorsport before making generic comments that are wrong.
JACCS Accord had 300hp NA out of their H22 and the suspension came from F1 tech.
I agree with 'a Trico Pro' to an extent, but that doesn't stop people from trying to make the most out of that type of drivetrain.
And to the rest of you, my concern was not the handeling of these cars. I don't care how you tune it. FWD is at a disadvantage no matter how you look at it. The traction is the main issue I was complaining about. Seems like only a handful including some Civics can get into second gear pushing over 250hp and not spinning. How the hell can you launch these cars without traction control, or even come out of a turn in second. Does it have to do with the diff tuning maybe? Even the stickiest tires don't make a difference.
Because I have driven FWD cars in real life pushing a handful of power and non of them nearly give me as much trouble with traction as the ones in the game even with racing tires.
And to the rest of you, my concern was not the handeling of these cars. I don't care how you tune it. FWD is at a disadvantage no matter how you look at it. The traction is the main issue I was complaining about. Seems like only a handful including some Civics can get into second gear pushing over 250hp and not spinning. How the hell can you launch these cars without traction control, or even come out of a turn in second. Does it have to do with the diff tuning maybe? Even the stickiest tires don't make a difference.
Because I have driven FWD cars in real life pushing a handful of power and non of them nearly give me as much trouble with traction as the ones in the game even with racing tires.
Rotary Junkie
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And yet a very mildly modded RX, S2K, or even a bleeding nose-heavy, understeery, overweight Mustang on equivalent tires would walk it.
nd 4 holden spd
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Yeah seriously, don't abuse him for being right. Just because some are used in racing doesn't mean that FWD is a good drivetrain for racing. It's lowsy at best compared to RWD or AWD, it really is just a cheaper alternative on the road.
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well yeah, he's got a point.., wheelspin on FWDs in GT4 is, IMO, exaggerated.., in a stop start, FWDs already lose it, but they're not completely useless though.., FWDs are the trickiest to tune, get it wrong and you'll have more wheelspin and understeer than before. but get it right, and it's very rewarding.., 
Rotary Junkie
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well yeah, he's got a point.., wheelspin on FWDs in GT4 is, IMO, exaggerated.., in a stop start, FWDs already lose it, but they're not completely useless though.., FWDs are the trickiest to tune, get it wrong and you'll have more wheelspin and understeer than before. but get it right, and it's very rewarding..,
But finding that balance...
That is the key. But I feel that FWD may actually be able to keep up with RWD at 250-275hp for both on S-grades.
Well I have an all motor 98' Type R with 225hp, racing suspension, and S3's, and I just whopped me up some level 5 diffuculty RX7s, Skylines, and WRXs on Stage 5. Gotta give this car respect. Of course if it was humans driving those cars... 
So what do you FWD tuners do about traction with these high HP cars, to keep from spinning out on low end? I don't believe you guys try that hard to feather the throttle each and everytime. lol TOO much effort is required there for it to be fun.
So what do you FWD tuners do about traction with these high HP cars, to keep from spinning out on low end? I don't believe you guys try that hard to feather the throttle each and everytime. lol TOO much effort is required there for it to be fun.
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Are you trying to race against other FWD's or are you going against AWD's and RWD's? If it's the latter then there is a good chance you're going to have a tough time at winning, thats because the FWD has to steer with the tires that are used to propel it forward.
And there's plenty you can do to make wheelspin a smaller issue. Such as choosing to go NA instead of turbo, the peak of or on the way to the peak of the spool is what kills you. The LSD is another way I'm sure. And if all else fells you're only one tick away from TCS that won't hinder you too much.
I know all to well the disadvantages of FWD. Im just going up against what ever the game throws at me.
And thats a nice theory on the NA/Turbo thing, but wouldn't it work the other way around, since with NA the power is always there pretty much, but with turbo you gotta get those revs up for peak power, no? So that might make it easier on the wheels off the line.
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- RykonZero
'Over 250 hp a struggle to drive?' I have a DC5 with 317 HP that has very little wheel spin. Not to mention that it gets a laptime around Tsukuba at 59.7 sec.
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I must apologize for hijacking this, but I love this sort of thing: With NA, the power is always there, which means that you can feather it at low revs, get optimal traction, and everything graduates smoothly to higher revs without drama or excessive wheelspin. With turbo, the lag at low revs initially helps for a calm start, but the instant the turbo spools up, the power increases dramatically, and throttle control suddenly becomes very difficult to execute properly. Wheelspin, at this point, becomes unavoidable, and you either spin the wheels too much, or you let off the throttle too much, and now you're hardly moving at all.
Basically, NA is faster off the line because the more constant and predictable power curve makes efficient launches much easier than in a brutal turbo car.
- 2,571
...In a car where the power is sufficient (or the traction is lacking enough) for full throttle to result in wheelspin which is slower than a smooth start, of course. Natural aspiration isn't quicker off the line if you bog down out of the powerband as soon as you 'let out the clutch'
DE
DE
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*shakes head* remember, these still aren't true to life designs, yet (or why would they have replaced torque steer with a stuttering tire, a la Fiat Coupe?)
everybody has their own technique for running and tuning their cars. keep experimenting untill you find the proper way.
personally, I set the Camber (?) to +3 front and turn the TC nannny down to a maximim of five for most fronts
everybody has their own technique for running and tuning their cars. keep experimenting untill you find the proper way.
personally, I set the Camber (?) to +3 front and turn the TC nannny down to a maximim of five for most fronts
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I disagree...FWD is not completely useless, but it certainly is more difficult once you start getting in more advanced races.
But as you said..it's a matter of feathering the throttle A LOT. Getting your racing lines proper. The Ai still makes odd decisions with braking points and such even in Professional-level races (not to mention some Japanese, American, and European events) so I find it possible to slip by faster rear-drive or all-wheel drive cars if I keep my nerves steady and know what I'm doing.
...as Soprano says up above: a well-tuned LSD unit is a great tool to try. Suspension settings also help keep the power laid down to the ground as much as possible. With both of these set right, you shouldn't need TCS at all. At least I don't.
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Rotary Junkie
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For drag racing it does, but making it work for cornering as well means more suspension tuning.
I find that stiff springs don't allow the weight to shift off the nose as easily, as it takes more energy to make them expand as well as to make them compress. Add stiff-rebound shocks and it WILL improve traction. A good LSD is just gravy.
I find that stiff springs don't allow the weight to shift off the nose as easily, as it takes more energy to make them expand as well as to make them compress. Add stiff-rebound shocks and it WILL improve traction. A good LSD is just gravy.
- 45
yep, fwd was designed for cheapness and safety not performance or racing (although some perform alright), like you said.
FWD's have two drive shafts, one each side. I've just replaced the two on my FWD clio because both the abs sensor rings were corroded and cv boots wrecked, an MOT fail in the uk, less hassle to change the whole shaft then replace rings / boots.
AOS-
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You are indeed correct I've got limited knowledge in the motorsport industry, not the 'enthuisiast" about it either. I know there are FF cars tuned to do racing, but i was saying that because FF wasn't invented for racing..not because it CAN'T race
However when i do buy myself a Mini Cooper i'd like to test out it's handling capabilities
However when i do buy myself a Mini Cooper i'd like to test out it's handling capabilities
- 45
Well if you are going to do fwd something like a cooper is a good bet imo. FWD cars should be small and you don't get a much smaller FWD than a classic mini. The Japanese do fwd well, even on larger cars, but I'd still rather the 'feel' of the drive a 200sx gives over say a Prelude.
Anyway classic Mini's are great cars with strong, chain timed ohv engines (non of this cambelt rubbish) which respond well to tuning, but prone to rust, especially on the subframe and subframe mounting points so look out for that, what is spares availability like for uk cars in Canada?
Another thing, shame the classic mini wasn't in GT4.
Anyway classic Mini's are great cars with strong, chain timed ohv engines (non of this cambelt rubbish) which respond well to tuning, but prone to rust, especially on the subframe and subframe mounting points so look out for that, what is spares availability like for uk cars in Canada?
Another thing, shame the classic mini wasn't in GT4.
mafia_boy
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On the original topic, I totally disagree with your comments about lack of traction for over 250hp cars. My Primera N/A has 290hp, 325hp with a turbo, and while 1st gear is a bit of a feather job, from 2nd gear on, there's no real problems. A lot of us in TCv3 had up to 320hp in our cars which was enough for the S3 tyres.
And there's other cars that have no problems having 300hp+ with S3's. The Alfa 147 is another for NA, and for factory turbos you can have the SRT-4, the Eclipse or Focus RS. I personally have no problems slapping R3's on these cars and having MORE power. There are a couple on my MC that near 400hp which are very tractable when driven right on R3's. TCS helps if you want it too, but that should be left for getting the best times on the sprints.
Listen to Parnelli & Soprano because your best helps for traction are good settings on the LSD, huge frontal downforce, ballast on the front and stiffer rear suspension. My proof is in the pudding on the FF 1/4 mile sprint times. 
It's a compromise in sorts, how much do you want it to stick to the ground vs how much you can get it to turn.
And there's other cars that have no problems having 300hp+ with S3's. The Alfa 147 is another for NA, and for factory turbos you can have the SRT-4, the Eclipse or Focus RS. I personally have no problems slapping R3's on these cars and having MORE power. There are a couple on my MC that near 400hp which are very tractable when driven right on R3's. TCS helps if you want it too, but that should be left for getting the best times on the sprints.
Listen to Parnelli & Soprano because your best helps for traction are good settings on the LSD, huge frontal downforce, ballast on the front and stiffer rear suspension.
My proof is in the pudding on the FF 1/4 mile sprint times. It's a compromise in sorts, how much do you want it to stick to the ground vs how much you can get it to turn.
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