FWD Sports Car?

  • Thread starter TVC
  • 482 comments
  • 44,036 views

Can a sports car be front wheel drive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 129 78.2%
  • No

    Votes: 36 21.8%

  • Total voters
    165
TVC
The truth is if I wanted to know I wouldn't have asked. I already knew a lot of people consider the Elan M100 a sports car and it FWD.

I was just hoping for a nice discussion but instead it turns into an argument of what a sports car is and if a if a sport compact is a sports car. 👎

I would delete the thread if I could but I can't.


You're the one who keeps saying that any vehicle that can be classified another way cannot be a sports car?
In case you don't realise, a car CAN be a compact car, sports car, convertible, and two seater, all in one. Any one of the categories it fits can be used to describe it.
A 2 door car can be a sports car. A 4 door sedan can be a sports car. A hatchback can be a sportscar. A luxury sedan. A wagon. It's drivetrain does not preclude it from being a sports car. The number of seats, do no preclude it from being a sports car. The number of doors, or size, or type.

ANY car can be a sports car.

That said. A FWD car can be a sports car. Whether its a coupe, convertible, sedan or wagon. I would go so far as to say even a truck can be a sports car. After all, a truck is a type of car; one designed for carrying loads.
Happy?
 
No.

I've driven a few real sports cars, including one particularly engaging Miata. Now I own a pretty flacid and old RX7. My old Civic ran pretty well, and beat some other notables at the track, but no matter how fast any front wheel drive car is, how well it handles, or how good it performs in general it'll never be a sports car by principle.

But then again, I've never read the same definition for "sports car" in two places before. As far as I can tell one of the important things is that the car being designed with fun and performance as its goals. All four wheels of the car should have a purpose, because making the two on the front literally do all the work is not practical in a long, high speed race. Stuff like that means an Integra Type R will never be a sports car, no matter how well it performs. It's a gussied up economy car, and it's front wheel drive. Beyond that, I feel they should have two doors--any more and it becomes a sedan. An M5 is damn sporty, but it's still a sedan. I believe they should have two seats, and if more then they must be useless, like in a 911. An M3 is a great car too, but it's rear seats are just as comfortable and leathery as the fronts. It screams grand touring.

So basically, designed with racing in mind, not front wheel drive, with two doors, and no more than 2+2 seating.

As an aside, I feel that anyone who is trying to justify a front driver of any sort as being a sports car--especially those citing Hondas--are severely misguided. My old Civic performed better in certain ways than various real sports car owned by many of my friends. But I knew it would never actually be a sports car, no matter what. It's not performance that matters, it's principle.
 
The argument over what makes a sports car again?:banghead: Here's a definition for you, if it is made to go fast or be fun to drive in a sporting manner it is a sports car.
Of course FWD cars can be sports cars, look at the hundreds of hot hatches, seriously, is this even a thread?:dunce:
 
Needed one of these a LONG time ago...
DoubleFacePalm.jpg
 
The argument over what makes a sports car again?:banghead: Here's a definition for you, if it is made to go fast or be fun to drive in a sporting manner it is a sports car.
Of course FWD cars can be sports cars, look at the hundreds of hot hatches, seriously, is this even a thread?:dunce:

:lol: Exactly! Not many RWD or AWD have a chance against my EG6 at the track:)👍! At least here in PT! 281HP / 850kg:)!
 
To me all these hot hatches are not real sport cars like the dodge viper, corvette, nissan gtr, porsche 911 etc. for me a real sports car can only be rear wheeled drive cars. But this is in no way a 'fact'.
 
I answered yes on instinct as I don't see FWD as being neccessarily inferior to RWD, but the more I think about it the more I struggle to think of any FWD 'sports cars' other than the Elan suggested by the OP... for me, a souped up FWD shopping trolley isn't a sports car no matter how fast it is or how well it handles.

You can have hot hatches, sports saloons etc, but they don't fit with my personal idea of what a 'sports car' is.
 
To me all these hot hatches are not real sport cars like the dodge viper, corvette, nissan gtr, porsche 911 etc. for me a real sports car can only be rear wheeled drive cars. But this is in no way a 'fact'.

The Nissan GT-R isn't rear wheel drive.
 
I voted yes.

It's a tricky one though. Is the Copen a sports car? Yes, it is. It's FWD, it's not very powerful and it's absolutely tiny, but then apart from the FWD all the other Keis similar to it were undoubtably sports cars - the Honda Beat, the Suzuki Cappuccino, the Mazda AZ-1. It's designed primarily to be fun. And I think that's the essence of a sports car. The Celica and FTO? Definitely. Both purpose-designed coupes, both low, both quick and both fun. Also both FWD. Things like the Elise, the Miata, the Porsche 911? Definitely. They're virtually the definition of sports cars.

The Merc S65 mentioned? No. It's a luxury barge that's been given a sledgehammer engine and a few sporty fripperies, but you'd never buy one to expressly have fun like you would any of the other cars I've mentioned above. It's not very sleek, it's not very responsive. Quick? Of course, but the Copen proves that sports cars don't necessarily have to be quick.

Sports cars don't have to have much power, but powerful cars aren't necessarily sports cars.

But sports cars can be FWD.
 
All four wheels of the car should have a purpose, because making the two on the front literally do all the work is not practical in a long, high speed race. Stuff like that means an Integra Type R will never be a sports car, no matter how well it performs. It's a gussied up economy car, and it's front wheel drive.

The rear tires on a hot hatch or sport compact do have a function. They steer the car.

The best front-wheel drive cars are good because the rear suspension geometry actually does a lot of the steering work... Ford's Control Blade multi-link comes to mind... through passive bushing deflection and geometry changes under lateral load. Tricks that you wouldn't try to the same degree on most rear-drive cars.

An ITR isn't a gussied up economy car. It's a purpose built sports coupe. Full double wishbones, rack-and-pinion instead of the dreck on the regular Civic, a rorty engine and an LSD. That last part alone makes it better than 90% of the rear drivers on the road, which do nothing when you boot the throttle in a corner except squeal piggishly and understeer.

It's not performance that matters, it's principle.

Front-drivers don't violate any principles that make a sports car.

Seriously... front-drivers used to win at Indy... :D

Yes. And don't you dare laugh. It meets every definition of a sports car.
649606454_fa7495bd3e.jpg

Yes, yes it does. :D

TVC
Sport compact is another classification for a car just like "sports car" and "sports sedan". Go look it up. A sports car is not an opinion it's an actual classification and sport compact is not a sub-level. I don't even know where you got that idea from. That's like saying a pick up truck is a sub level of a semi truck. There are things needed for a car to truly be a sports car.

I suggest you look it up.

There is no legal definition of a sports car, according to US law. A car is either a subcompact, a compact, a midsizer or etcetera.

All other classifications are an artefact of what manufacturers agree upon, or not. BMW can call the X5 an SAV while Ford calls the Explorer an SUT, but to the government, they're all the same banana. They're both trucks. Insurance groups might set aside a classification for sports cars, but generally they'll include anything that can kill you quicker than usual in that class simply so they can charge you more. :lol:

How about a Bentley Continental GT (mentioned previously) and an Aveo? They're both subcompact cars, according to the EPA. It's just that one has less passenger space than the other (hint, it's not the Aveo).

Again:

From Merriam Webster, free of any liberal/conservative editing efforts by the general net-populace:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sports car

Main Entry: sports car
Function: noun

Date: 1928 (and free, apparently, of all this new age rewriting of car classes)

: a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving

According to Merriam Webster... a Bentley Continental GT is not a Sportscar... neither is a Dodge Viper. While a Viper is low, in no way can something that's nearly six feet wide be considered "small"

viper-cape-cod-med.jpg


But then, that's relative. A Dodge Viper is relatively big compared to classic sports cars... but guess what? It's longer and wider than many modern cars, too. And it's heavier than some midsize sedans, to boot. So does it meet the "small" part of the definition? No. Does it meet the lightweight part of other definitions? No. Does it meet the classic definition of a sportscar? Not completely. Do I consider it a sports car? Why yes, yes I do.

-

And Sports Compact? It's a definition invented by enthusiasts... to describe small, inexpensive and affordable vehicles with better performance than is common. The strict definition of "Sports Compact", as a high-performance version of an economy car only includes the likes of the Civic Type R, the Dodge Neon SRT4, the Cobalt SS and the Ford Focus RS... though you'd be hard-pressed to call the new-generation RS affordable to the common young enthusiast.

The truth is... the Sport Compact scene (poorly named) encompasses cars that range from the Mazda Miata and Lotus Elise (which are two of a very small number of cars that actually fit the classic definition of the sportscar) to the likes of the Toyota Supra and the Nissan GT-R... neither of which is "affordable" (unless you're buying an old beater) or even remotely compact.

-

In the end, the terms "sports car" and "sport compact" are consensus terms. There's no law governing what is and what is not. You're free to draw the classifications wherever you want, but, as other people have pointed out... you're not drawing the line in the same place for every vehicle.

Me? I don't actually care how you classify them. It's impossible for everyone to agree on these things. I just wish you'd give logical reasons for why you classify them the way you do.
 
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TVC
Do you think a sports car can be FWD? Is there such thing as a FWD sports car?

I think there is - Lotus Elan M100.

I agree with you. But personally, I'd rather have a RWD sports car over a FWD sports car. In general.
 
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Sports car, SportKa... Tomayto, tomarto...

But no. Presumably this thread is for 'sports cars' in the traditional, mid-life crisis sense rather than anything particularly good to drive or remotely fast. So I'll disappear.
 
An ITR isn't a gussied up economy car. It's a purpose built sports coupe. Full double wishbones, rack-and-pinion instead of the dreck on the regular Civic, a rorty engine and an LSD. That last part alone makes it better than 90% of the rear drivers on the road, which do nothing when you boot the throttle in a corner except squeal piggishly and understeer.
All Civics and platform mates have had double wishbone suspension and rack-and-pinion steering since the early 90s.

An Integra Type R is an economy car with bits to make it perform better. Honda, being performance-minded, gave the Civic a very capable chassis, no doubt. All the goodies made it even better. Even being the fan and owner I was, I still refuse to call it or cars like it a sports car, because they're not. They're sporty, that's for sure, and in fact my Si was "Sport-injected", but it wasn't a sports car and never will be.

Seriously... front-drivers used to win at Indy... :D
They can win as many races as they want, but I'll still not call them sports cars. That's the opinion of a hardcore Honda performance fanatic.
 
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They can win as many races as they want, but I'll still not call them sports cars. That's the opinion of a hardcore Honda performance fanatic.

How do you call yourself an "hardcore Honda performance fanatic" with that sentence?:ouch:
 
An Integra Type R is an economy car with bits to make it perform better. Honda, being performance-minded, gave the Civic a very capable chassis, no doubt. All the goodies made it even better. Even being the fan and owner I was, I still refuse to call it or cars like it a sports car, because they're not. They're sporty, that's for sure, and in fact my Si was "Sport-injected", but it wasn't a sports car and never will be.

👍

No disrespect to owners of CTR's, R26R's, Focus RS's etc... they are good cars, but they aren't 'sports cars'... they are run of the mill family hatchbacks with go faster bits.
 
If the Manufactors call them SPORTS CARS ill go and believe them! GTP thread VS Manufactors... ok... :lol:!
 
pah. Still, it counts as a sports car, yes? I see that they've been dancing around that one...

I mean, yes, it uses components from boggo standard Saab sedans, (Primarily the drivetrain,) but had it's own chassis, and was designed from the outset as a sports car. If, by their logic, the drivetrain and a few components makes it not a sports car, then the Viper doesn't count (used a truck engine,) the Porsche 924 doesnt' count ("van" engine,) and the original Corvette definitely doesn't count (entire drivetrain is almost completely Chevy 210.)
 
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pah. Still, it counts as a sports car, yes? I see that they've been dancing around that one...

I'd call it a sports car. I don't care that it's front-drive just like I don't care that a Barchetta or a Copen is front-drive. It still ticks all the boxes for me.
 
TVC
Wouldn't the CRX be a hot hatch? I wouldn't really call that a sports car. At least not technically. Same goes for the Celica. I guess you could consider it a sports car but technically I wouldn't say it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_hatch

You tell me. ;)
Technically you're just clutching at straws now, Sports Compact = Hot Hatch depending on where you're from. Celica isn't a Hot Hatch.
The Civic Si that the CRX was based on was a hot hatch, being that it came from the original Civic bodystyle with performance parts.
The CRX itself was a completely different bodystyle, a 2-door coupe in it's first guise, and in the later generations a targa-top (Del Sol in US.)
Both were 2-seater cars with a focus on performance (not exactly Earth shattering) & handling, although derived from an econo-box Civic, but you can hardly dispute either version was made with a tremendous load-lugging capability or massive fuel-economy in mind.
(And yes, I can read, the CRX is listed there as a hot-hatch and the debate between what's a "hatchback" vs. "coupe" is another vague and unclarifiable area!)

Next you'll be telling us the Bugatti Veyron is Hot Hatch because it's a 2-door, 2-seater coupe with a sloping, opening rear hatch, and that this is a sports-car:
X90silver.jpg
because it's got 2-seats, can't be classified as "compact" and doesn't have a hatchback.

:lol:
:lol:
:rolleyes:
 
What the hell is that??? This is the CRX his talking about!
crx2gk4.jpg


Stupid-sized picture??? I admit i was a bit to fast and didnt look to the picture size but pay more attention when you reason your edits!
 
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You might want to find a SMALLER PIC Horde! That is so oversized it's not funny. 👎

And the car that Smallhorses put up is the Suzuki X-90 which was "supposed" to be the next generation for the Sierra (or Vitara, always mix myself up with it), except they went ass backwards by putting drums on the back and a worse suspension package. Essentially it was an abortion of an upgrade.

*added bit* Tree'd by SH, thanks dude for removing it, even at full speed it was taking time for that to show! 👍
 
Many Americans have a thing against Hondas! The same Americans that think they have a great V8 or V10 and then one day after the light goes green: "OMG what was that?!". Answer: a Honda with turbo or a K26 engine:sly:!
 
What the hell is that??? This is the CRX his talking about!

Yup, I know what he's talking about the same CRX that's in his avatar. ;)

That thing is a Suzuki X-90, a horrid little SUV contraption, that I was using to illustrate a point here that you can't dismiss anything vaguely "hatchbacked" but actually a coupe e.g. Jensen Interceptor, Mitsubishi FTO as a "hot-hatch" purely because it doesn't fit into the "usually 2-seater" part of his merriam-webster definition, which at the same time does include "small" as part of it's definition, and yet each time anyone has posted anything that's vaguely small by US terms, it's automatically therefore lumped into his "sport compact" definition due to it's size regardless of bodystyle.

I suppose it depends on how you describe "sports".
This is a sports-car:
ferrari-458-italia-1.jpg

but I've yet to see one excelling at this:
offroad.jpg

which to most is a legitimate form of autosport, which is where the "Sport" part of the SUV defininition comes from.
 
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