Gasoline Prices

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Swift
hmm...I wonder who's to blame for the higher gas prices? I just don't know.:dunce:

There's a lot of things that are contributing to higher gas prices.

First of all, demand for gasoline is quite inelastic...
Second, oil companies stopped producing oil refineries over 25-30 years ago -- so supply of "refined" oil is limited (...there's plenty of black gold, by the way)
Third, there are more cars on the road now than there were before.

There's more, but I believe these are the main factors. So in that case, everyone is to blame for the higher has prices.

However, price gouging (that is, raising prices BEFORE the hurricanes actually hit) is illegal and also contributed.

a6m5
What a joke. :rolleyes:

Tell me about it. And very little, if any, will be taxed thanks to Bush. So while our property taxes go up, their corporate taxes go down; our representatives don't seem to care about corporate welfare anyway... Cutting aid to the elderly and the infirm is "fiscal responsibility".
 
MrktMkr1986
Second, oil companies stopped producing oil refineries over 25-30 years ago -- so supply of "refined" oil is limited (...there's plenty of black gold, by the way)

Two guesses as to what caused them to stop.
 
MrktMkr1986
There's a lot of things that are contributing to higher gas prices.

First of all, demand for gasoline is quite inelastic...
Second, oil companies stopped producing oil refineries over 25-30 years ago -- so supply of "refined" oil is limited (...there's plenty of black gold, by the way)
Third, there are more cars on the road now than there were before.

There's more, but I believe these are the main factors. So in that case, everyone is to blame for the higher has prices.

However, price gouging (that is, raising prices BEFORE the hurricanes actually hit) is illegal and also contributed.

You do realize I was being sarcastic right? The only reason for the price jumping over a dollar a gallon and staying there is because the oil companies WANT them to and we're willing to pay it. That's it.
 
Swift
You do realize I was being sarcastic right?

Of course, I just wanted to throw in my opinion.

The only reason for the price jumping over a dollar a gallon and staying there is because the oil companies WANT them to and we're willing to pay it. That's it.

Of course oil companies want high gas prices... but that's not the only contributing factor. Saying that we're willing to pay higher prices is basically the same thing as saying the demand is [relatively] inelastic.
 
Petrol prices in Australia are completely outrageous. The price since the War On Terror has risen from roughly 70-80 cents a litre, to $1.40 a litre. It's caused significant increases in the prices of smallgoods, as transporting the goods has become costly, too. Things are becoming very unaffordable for the average family/person in Australia, it's ridiculous. Constantly I'm left on empty.
 
Gasoline Price Gouging Investigation:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/24/gas.investigation/index.html

This is freaking retarded...

Article
"Anyone who is trying to take advantage of this situation while American families are forced into making tough choices over whether to fill up their cars or severely cut back their budgets should be investigated and prosecuted," House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, wrote in a letter to President Bush.

What??? Anyone trying to sell their property for a maximum profit should be jailed? How unamerican can you get?

Article
"With skyrocketing gas prices, it is clear that the American people can no longer afford the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress and its failure to stand up to Republican big oil and gas company cronies," Pelosi said in a written statement. "With record gas prices, record CEO pay packages, and record oil company profits, Speaker Hastert and the Republican Congress continue to give the American people empty rhetoric rather than join Democrats who are working to lower gas prices now."

It's not your job moron!!!

Article
Earlier this month, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, accused the oil companies of making America's energy problems worse. "In his State of the Union address, we heard the president say that America is addicted to oil. If that's so, then these behemoth oil companies are some of our biggest dealers," Schumer said.

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Oh yes, it's the oil companies who have been giving us cheap oil all these years that are to blame for our enjoyment of the oil.

Follow this logic:

Oil companies should have held back supply and price gouged for the last twenty years to make sure that we weren't as dependant on oil as we are today. But since we're dependant on it, they sure as hell shouldn't be price gouging.

Who elects these idiots? Oh wait... we do.
 
If they want to help the gas price situation, why don't they suspend a few of those blasted taxes for a while!!!!
 
"In his State of the Union address, we heard the president say that America is addicted to oil. If that's so, then these behemoth oil companies are some of our biggest dealers," Schumer said.

That floors me. What's his point?

Straight pandering to the uninformed.
 
danoff
What??? Anyone trying to sell their property for a maximum profit should be jailed? How unamerican can you get?
I understand your point, but is it really that simple? Oil/gas is pretty much necessity, right? What if something like water or food were controlled by handful of corporations and they decide to maximize their profit?

I think the problem I see is that I don't really see gasoline companies competing out there. Chevron, Shell, Texaco, 76, etc. I don't see one gas company trying to out price another. One that actually does is Arco, but mechanics always tell you not to put them in your car. :guilty:
 
a6m5
I understand your point, but is it really that simple? Oil/gas is pretty much necessity, right? What if something like water or food were controlled by handful of corporations and they decide to maximize their profit?

Then they'd lose business to some other corporation that decided to maximize their profit. Corporations do control the price of food and water, which are far more necessary than gasoline and both food and gasoline are dirt cheap as a result. Plus, let's not forget the simple fact that this is someone's property, which morally and ethically speaking they should be able to offer for sale at any price they ask.

Here's a good article on price gouging.

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/JohnStossel/2005/09/07/155361.html
 
There are places that price gouge, its pretty clear when one station sells their gas for 2.89 and the station a few miles away is charging 3.09 for the same gas. While that might not seem like a big jump, but .20 extra a gallon adds up, I have a 16 gallon tank and to fill it up it typically takes 15 gallons, that would be and extra 3 bucks to the 3.09 station. Over time that adds way up.
 
BlazinXtreme
There are places that price gouge, its pretty clear when one station sells their gas for 2.89 and the station a few miles away is charging 3.09 for the same gas. While that might not seem like a big jump, but .20 extra a gallon adds up, I have a 16 gallon tank and to fill it up it typically takes 15 gallons, that would be and extra 3 bucks to the 3.09 station. Over time that adds way up.

I wouldn't call that gouging. I'd call it charging more.
 
danoff
Plus, let's not forget the simple fact that this is someone's property, which morally and ethically speaking they should be able to offer for sale at any price they ask.
Morally and ethically.... Oil industry people are ruthless. They make Sony and Microsoft look like Disney characters. :D

I have to disagree. Oil/gas prices should be somewhat regulated.
 
danoff
I wouldn't call that gouging. I'd call it charging more.

Ehhh I don't know, I mean pretty much all gas is the same within the same octane rating, I don't understand why they would charge more for the same exact thing.

But you really see gouging around holidays, Easter weekend gas went up and the Tuesday following prices went back down. Memorial Day will prove this though because gas will jump 30 cents just for the weekend.
 
a6m5
Morally and ethically.... Oil industry people are ruthless. They make Sony and Microsoft look like Disney characters. :D

I have to disagree. Oil/gas prices should be somewhat regulated.

Why?

Blazin
Ehhh I don't know, I mean pretty much all gas is the same within the same octane rating, I don't understand why they would charge more for the same exact thing.

But you really see gouging around holidays, Easter weekend gas went up and the Tuesday following prices went back down. Memorial Day will prove this though because gas will jump 30 cents just for the weekend.

That's called supply and demand. Did you read the article? It's a really good article.
 
danoff
Because I consider gas to be a necessity and don't want the prices to be $10 per gallon, when nothing has changed with the actual supply. I don't trust oil companies and not too sure about gas stations either.
 
a6m5
Because I consider gas to be a necessity and don't want the prices to be $10 per gallon, when nothing has changed with the actual supply. I don't trust oil companies and not too sure about gas stations either.

Water, food, and housing are all more necessary than gasoline. Should we regulate these as well?

Do you have a right to have gasoline (someone else's property) at $10 just because you think that's a fair price? It doesn't belong to you, why do you think you can set the price at which someone else must sell it to you? Because you like to drive?
 
danoff
Water, food, and housing are all more necessary than gasoline. Should we regulate these as well?
If it's out of control and if it made sense to, I don't see why not.

Nobody's making money off water(unless you are talking about bottled water), so we can count that one out. I don't think we have a reason to regulate prices on food yet, because "handful" of corporation do not produce food. Competition is there, supply's plenty. Housing is tricky, it's very different from the rest. Housing is very expensive right now, but unlike gas, there is a way around it. Which is why half the people in Oregon are from California(which made our housing very expensive). :P

danoff
Do you have a right to have gasoline (someone else's property) at $10 just because you think that's a fair price?
What if corporations got hold of other things that this planet produces, like air or water and claim that it is their property(yes, I realize gasoline does not flow out of ground). I think the least they can do is to offer it at a fair price. Market price of tomato or lumber rising is one thing, but with gas prices, we can't exactly fall back on our horses.

danoff
Because you like to drive?
You've got to be kidding! You sound like someone from Japan. Driving is not a hobby in this country dude! ;)
 
Here is an intresting article on MSN

MSN
With gasoline prices rising relentlessly here in the U.S., Joseph in California is wondering whether drivers in other countries are feeling the same pain at the pump that he is. It turns out American drivers aren't seeing the worst of it. But they're also not enjoying the kind of energy bargains available in some parts of the world.

I would be curious to know how other countries are faring with the run-up on gas prices. Are they being exposed to the same price shock that Americans are experiencing right now?
Joseph M., Linden, Calif.

Gasoline prices are going up around the world, but the pain is not being felt everywhere the same way. Drivers in some countries pay a lot more than U.S. consumers. But others pay substantially less. That’s because pump prices don’t reflect just the cost of gasoline.

In most of the industrialized world, including Europe and Japan, pump prices are much higher than in the U.S. – even though the wholesale price is roughly the same. The difference is a heavy tax load those countries impose to discourage consumption.

The Dutch have the dubious distinction of paying the most to fill 'er up, according to the U.S. Deptatment of Energy. (There are various agencies that track gasoline prices, but these are among the most recent figures available.) As of April 10, drivers in the Netherlands were paying the equivalent of about $6.73 a gallon at the pump. The gas itself cost $2.61; the rest — $4.12 — represented tax. That’s a 158 percent tax. By comparison, the U.S. has the lowest tax on gasoline of any industrialized country: about 15 percent at current prices.

Elsewhere in the industrialized world, the actual cost of gasoline ranges from $2.15 a gallon (France) to $2.61 in the Netherlands. But the after-tax price is $5.80 in France and over $6 a gallon in most other major European countries. Japanese drivers get off relatively easy: taxes there only push pump prices to about $4.50 a gallon.

So much for Europe and Japan. In less-developed parts of the world, some countries actually subsidize pump prices to keep them below what the gasoline actually costs to make. China, which recently raised fuel prices, still keeps them well below international market rates. Chinese drivers — and farmers — still pay the equivalent of less than $2 a gallon. As a result, the oil refining industry there is losing billions of dollars. That’s why the Chinese government is expected to continue to try to raise retail prices, while trying to avoid a major consumer backlash.

The cheapest places to top off, not surprisingly, are in countries that produce the most oil. In Iraq, until recently, pump prices were capped at 10 cents a gallon. Prices have recently risen to nearly 40 cents a gallon — still a bargain compared to the U.S. Iran also keeps pump prices low — less than 35 cents a gallon, according to a recent Reuters survey.

But for a real bargain, drive on down to Venezuela, where President Hugo Chavez has made a name for himself lately by delivering heating fuel to low-income American families at bargain prices. In Venezuela, you’ll pay just 12 cents a gallon to fill your tank.

I really don't feel bad for Europeans anymore since they only pay a lot because of taxes.
 
The price of gas is controlled by the car companies. (Car companies are major share holders of gasoline production companies.)

Hybrid car sales a way down. So, the price of gas goes up. Right now, hybrid cars are leaving the lot in droves.

Coincident? I think not.
 
a6m5
If it's out of control and if it made sense to, I don't see why not.

Seeing why not is easy, it's immoral to steal from others. Seeing why is the hard part.

Nobody's making money off water(unless you are talking about bottled water), so we can count that one out.

Why does "making money" off of it matter?

I don't think we have a reason to regulate prices on food yet,

Yet? Do you understand what price regulation means? It means that demand will be greater than supply. In otherwords it means long lines and rationing. We tried that with gasoline in this country in the 70's and it didn't work. I'd rather have access to gasoline if I need it (even if the price is high) than be prevented from getting it or having to wait in line for 2 hours to get it and immorally forcing someone to provide it to me below fair market value in the process.

What if corporations got hold of other things that this planet produces, like air or water and claim that it is their property(yes, I realize gasoline does not flow out of ground).

Air is public-ish and has to be because it flows onto and off of other people's property. Forget about the air argument, it's too far removed. Water on the otherhand - the most abundant substance on the planet - can be property and I see no problem with that.

I think the least they can do is to offer it at a fair price.

What exactly is fair? What you want to pay? That may seem fair to you and like highway robbery to the people providing you with their goods. Goods you have no legal or moral claim to. Goods that do not belong to you in any way shape or form. Fair is the price the free market sets. Fair is the price at which people ar willing to buy other people's property and others are willing to sell their property , and they're willing to pay a lot more than they are right now.

Market price of tomato or lumber rising is one thing, but with gas prices, we can't exactly fall back on our horses.

We most certainly can. We can fall back on bikes, motorcycles, horses, hybrid cars, electric cars, feet... you can move closer to work, you can find a job that lets you telecommute (they're out there). Don't pretend you need to drive to get to work.
 
Solid Lifters
The price of gas is controlled by the car companies. (Car companies are major share holders of gasoline production companies.)

Hybrid car sales a way down. So, the price of gas goes up. Right now, hybrid cars are leaving the lot in droves.

Coincident? I think not.


The price of gas is largely controlled by commodities traders investing in, or pulling investments out of oil.

The price of gas is low, high mpg cars aren't so attractive. The price of gas goes up, high mpg cars become attractive. That makes sense doesn't it?
 
BlazinXtreme
There are places that price gouge, its pretty clear when one station sells their gas for 2.89 and the station a few miles away is charging 3.09 for the same gas. While that might not seem like a big jump, but .20 extra a gallon adds up, I have a 16 gallon tank and to fill it up it typically takes 15 gallons, that would be and extra 3 bucks to the 3.09 station. Over time that adds way up.


So... don't get your gas at the place that's charging $3.09. They can charge whatever they want, but it doesn't mean you have to buy it. Gas stations are as competative as anything - they just sell it at what can make a profit and still attract customers, like any business.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/12/magazines/fortune/pluggedin_fortune/index.htm

article
The idea that prices are set by Big Oil, not the traders at the NYMEX and other global bourses, is a misconception that seems to come into vogue whenever energy prices start making new highs. And putting the blame on OPEC, let alone trying to subject a foreign cartel to U.S. laws, seems to be doing anything but dealing honestly with the problem of too much demand and too little supply here at home.
 
Zrow
So... don't get your gas at the place that's charging $3.09. They can charge whatever they want, but it doesn't mean you have to buy it. Gas stations are as competative as anything - they just sell it at what can make a profit and still attract customers, like any business.


Well that would be all in good, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.
 
BlazinXtreme
Well that would be all in good, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.

That's right. Sometimes you don't find gas at the price you'd like to pay because it's worth more than that.

Sometimes diamonds and ferraris are a little more expensive than you'd like to shell out, but the price is dictated by supply and demand.
 
Well I was more referring to, I'm driving down the freeway, my gas light comes on, I pull off at an exit and I have to pay 30-40 cents more then somewhere futher off the freeway, and I don't have the gas to go find a cheaper price.
 
BlazinXtreme
Well I was more referring to, I'm driving down the freeway, my gas light comes on, I pull off at an exit and I have to pay 30-40 cents more then somewhere futher off the freeway, and I don't have the gas to go find a cheaper price.

Ah, well then just be glad it only cost you 30-40 cents to pay for the convenience of having a gas station right where you needed one (so that you didn't have to be troubled to plan a little better). Be glad you're allowed to fill up at all, because if the price cap folks get their way, rationing could dictate that you leave your car on the side of the road until the next tuesday when your license plate is allowed to visit the pump.

We tried to ignore basic economics in the 70's and economics won. Let's hope we don't try that again.
 
...Well, Bush has let the Congress loose to investigate price fixing on Gasoline and other oil products by American oil companies. Hopefully something will get figured out...
 
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