Gay Marriage

[counter345]

Is there actually any legitimate, legal reasons or complexities that keeps gay marriage illegal?

 

[orimarc]

No that I can think of. It's just people in power going "that's not MORAL!" or "that goes against my religion!" or "I don't like it so I won't allow it!"

 

[Mr. S]

Just read this today. It happened in Paris, so it's the cathedral.

On Tuesday, a far-right historian shot himself dead in Notre Dame cathedral, leaving messages in which he denounced gay marriage.

 

[Danny]

That's interesting. Historical arguments all tend to diverge to the religious aspects of the issue.

And neither the Bible, Qu'ran et al are too fond of suicide.

 

[Mr. S]

That's interesting. Historical arguments all tend to diverge to the religious aspects of the issue.

And neither the Bible, Qu'ran et al are too fond of suicide.

Indeed. Yet...if legalizing gay marriage is a way to get rid of right-wing fanatics.

I dislike the idea of people commiting suicide, no matter their beliefs, tho.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Being gay goes against morals, really, but I see more and more and I think society should just adjust because our culture is diverse and we must accept someone for their differences and who they are. I personally think it's wrong, but I don't go around telling people what to do and what not to do.

 

[Danny]

Being gay goes against morals

Would you care to go into more detail?

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Would you care to go into more detail?

OK, lets say that you want to have children. You can't reproduce with two of the same *BEEP!*. Something just...feels wrong.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Would you care to go into more detail?

OK, lets say that you want to have children. You can't reproduce with two of the same *BEEP!*. Something just...feels wrong about it that I can't really put into words.

 

[Danny]

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about childless couples or infertility?

 

[Jet Badger]

I can't see how being gay is immoral. At best it's a bit unusual. Again, for what exact reason do you find letting other people, with whom you don't have anything to do with, be happy wrong? I'm not gay and I'm not a fan of being gay but letting them marry each other does not interfere with my rights or business in any way. Why would I be mad about them having such right?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Just read this today. It happened in Paris, so it's the cathedral.

Can't say I'm feeling sad.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

OK, lets say that you want to have children. You can't reproduce with two of the same *BEEP!*. Something just...feels wrong about it that I can't really put into words.

This has nothing to do with morals at all.
So in your argument, people who cannot bare children are immoral and should not marry. I can make a argument that you indeed are immoral because you show hatred for a group of people who haven't done anything for it.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

It just feels wrong. I'm sorry for expressing my feelings.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

How do you know how it feels though?
Two human beings may fall in love at any time, not allowing them to share the legal rights f being married feels wrong to me.
You have to think of how they feel, they arent out to change the world in he sense of everyone being gay. They just so happen to have feelings for another human who is not of the opposite sex.

The same arguments you are using were used against interracial marriage at one point in our history. Looks how we look back on that as ignorant.

 

[Jet Badger]

There's this other thing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and expressing it, it's your right and there's nothing wrong with it. But if you go through unbiased logic, you'll find that there is no reason to be against gay marriage, as said, what other people do between them doesn't interfere with your life or your rights. So saying that it feels wrong doesn't mean that it is wrong.

If one was to vote for/against legalization of gay marriage the first moral thing to do since your vote doesn't affect your well-being would be to think about the people, whose well-being is actually affected by your vote and do the thing that would make those human beings happy. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but taking away someone else's happiness, just because you somewhy don't feel like it, in a rational mind, is ignorant and immoral.

 

[Roo]

This has nothing to do with morals at all.
So in your argument, people who cannot bare children are immoral and should not marry. I can make a argument that you indeed are immoral because you show hatred for a group of people who haven't done anything for it.

Uncomfortable does not equal hatred.

I'm uncomfortable with sleeping in the same room as other people. That doesn't mean I hate people who do share a room.

I'd challenge this, and others already have...

Being gay goes against morals

...but I would still say using the word 'hate' is a bit strong.

 

[DK]

Can't say I'm feeling sad.

I don't feel sorry for him either, it almost seems like an entry for the Darwin Awards TBH.

 

[arora]

Is there a source to this story? Hard to tell what the deal is, did he kill himself because gay marriage was legalized there? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Danny]

Is there a source to this story? Hard to tell what the deal is, did he kill himself because gay marriage was legalized there? I find that hard to believe.

Here.

 

[arora]

Oh, now I see, thanks for the link.

Bruno Gollnisch, another National Front member, said Mr Venner's "dramatic act was a protest against the decay of our society".

That is not how you go about making a point, especially if you are a member of the church. I think it is unfortunate and I do feel for the guy, I can't condone the action in anyway however.

What a dunce.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It just feels wrong. I'm sorry for expressing my feelings.

Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings, I feel the same way about watching two guys together and have no trouble telling anyone about that either. I saw that Liberace movie on TV last night and turned it on out of curiousity. Within 5 minutes Michael Douglas was swapping spit with Matt Damon and it turned my stomach so I changed the channel.

I will always feel that way and yet I'm pro gay marriage and equal rights for gays when it comes to adoptions, custody etc, all the usual stuff married people are entitled to. I don't let the emotional side of me rule the logical side of me and the logical side of me says that gay people should be entitled to the same rights and privileges as the rest of us straight people. Who you choose to sleep with shouldn't limit your rights and freedoms in a democracy.

In the future, just realize that while you are entitled to feel any way you choose about an issue, you'll likely be challenged by forum members to support your position with logic and reason, and sometimes you can't which is also fine.

 

[FoolKiller]

I can't see how being gay is immoral.

If you believe premarital sex is immoral...of course the people who think that are the same ones that won't let them get married.

 

[arora]

Who you choose to sleep with shouldn't limit your rights and freedoms in a democracy.

Our rights became trampled once the irs and shark lawyers got into the picture, taking something away and only giving it back under condition is not ok. Why some of you fight from that angle is beyond me(I know we have hashed and rehashed that point but I responded anyway )

If you believe premarital sex is immoral...of course the people who think that are the same ones that won't let them get married.

Morality might not be the right word, some things make sense such as family values, at least to me. People should be able to do what they want as long as it's not hurting another, however they seldom take the responsibility when the crap hits the turbine.

 

[FoolKiller]

Morality might not be the right word, some things make sense such as family values, at least to me.

Not sure family values works in that context either. A reason behind the whole gay marriage debate is that homosexuals want to be able to have a legally-recognized family, yet they are opposed by people who are more likely than not to claim family values as their reasoning.

 

[arora]

When they rioted in Stonewall the first thing the lawyers said was they didn't want anything to do with marriage or children, just wanted to be left alone.

Now of course it is different, you know, because there is no slippery slope or anything lol. If you asked me what would be better between a state ran house or a gay adoption I'm sure you would know my answer.

Still doesn't make it right in my eye 👍

 

[eran0004]

Not sure family values works in that context either. A reason behind the whole gay marriage debate is that homosexuals want to be able to have a legally-recognized family, yet they are opposed by people who are more likely than not to claim family values as their reasoning.

Legally recognized as well as socially recognized. Marriage is a stronger bond than partnership, both legally and socially. What the Bible says is irrelevant* because we're not ruled by religious laws.

(* although it does in fact say that the entire Old Testament has been overruled by the arrival of Jesus Christ, and JC never says anything against homosexuality. Some apostels does though, but God never gave them any authority to dictate any laws so whatever they say that goes beyond the words of JC is not valid)

 

[arora]

Not sure if the bible is something to discuss in this thread but since you posted that, Paul does a good job distinguishing between commandment and advice I guess you could say, it's in 1st Corinthians 7-8.

For whatever that is worth.

 

[FoolKiller]

When they rioted in Stonewall the first thing the lawyers said was they didn't want anything to do with marriage or children, just wanted to be left alone.

The riots were spontaneous actions in response to unjust police raids. No, I don't believe that people fighting against being arrested and/or beaten in the street simply for being openly homosexual or transgendered were thinking about marriage or children. That doesn't make it an illegitimate point more than 30 years later.

Speaking of, since when did a single group of spontaneously and unorganized activists in one neighborhood of one city become the legitimate spokesperson for a nationwide community, and maintain their spokesperson status a generation later? Do your parents actions in 1969 represent you today?

Now of course it is different, you know, because there is no slippery slope or anything lol.

The same slippery slope black people put us on when they demanded voting rights, equality, interracial marriage, etc when we already ended slavery.

The slippery slope is allowing government to dictate when consenting adults should or shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Legally recognized as well as socially recognized.

Everyone wants to be socially recognized. No one wants to be ridiculed for being themselves. It's at the heart of the anti-bullying movement. Despite things like bullying laws, social recognition can't be forced. People won't be friends with others who are different from them because we say they should. No one has a guarantee of more than acceptance. That is where it ends and should end. No one has to call a gay couple married, no matter how legal it is.

 

[MatskiMonk]

These days marriage as a commitment or institution seems to matter so little to many of the people who are entitled to it, if homosexuals care enough to fight for the right to it, fair play, they should get it. To me marriage isn't about the law, or religion, it's about an honest open commitment, and statement, to pledge the rest of your life to a partnership with another person.

Though I do see that to want to do it in 'church', if the text your religion is based on disapproves of it, is a little wrong. I'm sure I'm over simplifying it.