General Workout Routines and Questions

[shmogt]

Bram are you doing those exercises each time you lift or only on certain days? If you are doing them each time you will get better results from mixing it up: pushers Monday, pullers Wednesday, legs Friday or some other plan rather than doing same thing each time. A way I recommend starting with pull ups is having a chair/bench under you with one or both feet on it to give a little push assist. The further forward in front of you the chair is the less it will assist.👍

I made a huge decision yesterday: I'm going to run a marathon next year. The target is 2013 Chicago Marathon in October but it may not happen due to work so around the same weekend is the Oktoberfest Marathon in La Crosse, WI, about 40 minutes from where I live. In May I will run a half marathon also in La Crosse as a mini test and motivation to begin training early in the year.

I've never run a half or full marathon in my life but I have ran 13 miles when I was a cross country runner in high school 11 years ago. It's always something I wanted to do but it was one of those in 5 years, always 5 years type of thing. It's time I stop saying in 5 years and make it happen. In the past year I've done P90X along with running 3-5 miles 3x/week, a hybrid P90X/X2 with running program, and currently Insanity.

My end goal will to be doing one half or full marathon a year and hitting major ones like Chichago, New York, Berlin and in cities that have importance to me La Crosse, Frankfurt am Main, Milwaukee etc. I need to get the first one out of the way though.

Anyone run a marathon or half marathon? Any advice or stories? Any books or websites I should check out? I plan to follow a training program, not decided which yet, and get advice the the cross country coach at my school (I work at a school) who does both.

Check Scooby out on YouTube. He's a huge older guy who does marathons and long distance bike races etc. He has a few videos of him doing them or some tips too.

 

[mcfizzle]

👍 I will do that.

 

[TP1]

Currently doing squats -> benchpress -> barbell curls -> shoulder press -> leg raides/hanging knee raises -> deadlifts.

Confirmed for T-Rex mode
But like mcfizzle has said, mix it up. Working out releases testosterone. The more muscle groups you workout, the more T is released. The more is released, the bigger the potential for growth. Skipping on the other muscle groups (especially major ones like Chest & Upper Back) is just cutting yourself short.
Think of it like a family. If only 'dad' has a job, there won't be a lot of money to go around the 'house'. But if everyone in the household brings back their income, everyone will be able to afford all they want & then some.
Also, if you're able to squat or deadlift everytime, then you're not pushing yourself every single time. A successful leg workout should kill you (in a good way).

 

[WRP001]

3:16 is a very impressive time, and I think the wall around mile 20 catches everyone. Doesn't sub 3 hours qualify you for Boston? I don't think I will be near that but I guess I won't know until I train.

Quali for Boston is age dependent. 3:05 for 34 and under and 3:10 for 35-39. Sub 3 hours will take some serious effort and training. Good luck.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Also, if you're able to squat or deadlift everytime, then you're not pushing yourself every single time. A successful leg workout should kill you (in a good way).

I've always done squats and deadlifts in one and the same workout. I've done Rippetoe's program a few years back, which also did heavy squats and deadlifts on the same day. Squats being 3X10 and deadlifts being a 1X5 heavy set right after all other exercises.

 

[mcfizzle]

I think he mean the same thing I was saying. There is no reason to do those every time you lift. Once, maybe twice a week is enough. Check out the pull up tip I gave on the previous page if you didn't see it.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Anyone run a marathon or half marathon? Any advice or stories? Any books or websites I should check out? I plan to follow a training program, not decided which yet, and get advice the the cross country coach at my school (I work at a school) who does both.

I ran Edinburgh marathon back in May, 4hrs17 was my final time. I would have loved to have gone sub 4hr but life, bodyweight (gained a lot of leg muscle from cycling) and the heat on the day (27C) didn't help.

I'd deff' suggest getting some food gels that agree with you, and a (rather lame) gel belt to carry them. Don't dabble with any new sups on the day of the race, bad idea.

Otherwise, just keep going. Have someone to meet you at the end too. The number of people my friend and I poked/shook/woke just to check they were okay (many were lying down on the grass alone, in direct sun, after a surprisingly hot day and race).

Good luck Scott. I did the Chicago Marathon myself... Of course it was in 1997, a mere 15 years ago.

Great time!

I've always done squats and deadlifts in one and the same workout. I've done Rippetoe's program a few years back, which also did heavy squats and deadlifts on the same day. Squats being 3X10 and deadlifts being a 1X5 heavy set right after all other exercises.

Couldn't do that!

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Confirmed for T-Rex mode
But like mcfizzle has said, mix it up. Working out releases testosterone. The more muscle groups you workout, the more T is released. The more is released, the bigger the potential for growth.

Then surely you would want to hit each muscle group everyday?

Skipping on the other muscle groups (especially major ones like Chest & Upper Back) is just cutting yourself short.

Bench Press does hit the chest. And deadlifts also hit the upper back but not to a great degree. He did say he was doing negative pull-ups.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Wow, how did this turn into a debate how I can hit every single muscle fiber?

Guys, I never said I am looking to train every single muscle to perfection through training 5 days a week, every week. I did that 5 years ago when I was on Jeff Anderson's Optimum Anabolics program.

I just think bodybuilding is being overhyped in recent years. You have to spend 5 days every week in the gym, you have to hit a specific bodypart each day with a thousand kind of exercises, you have to be on a perfect diet in order to really get any gains, you have to take in insane amounts of proteins and other expensive stuff every day.

I just find all this unnecessary, and to be honest the supplements part nonsense. I think people would be surprised how one can become fit and in good shape by merely doing squats, push-ups and pull-ups.

I am just looking to hit my entire body three days a week, increasing the weight every week. If anything I probably lack decent work on my upper back until I can properly perform pull-ups. But other than that, I think I'm working most of the muscle groups.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I am just looking to hit my entire body three days a week, increasing the weight every week. If anything I probably lack decent work on my upper back until I can properly perform pull-ups. But other than that, I think I'm working most of the muscle groups.

For your back, try barbell rows (Not Dorian Yates rows). They'll sort you out!

I think some guys in here need to learn that not everyone wants a pretty beach body, some guys want genuine strength. Bodybuilders are generally better off doing split isolation routines and focusing on muscle groups seperately because they can better control muscle size and growth to achieve the aim of having a nice looking, but not necessarily very strong, body. If you want to look good in a tight shirt, this is the way to go about it.

Weightlifters are better off sticking to compound movements (which are the hardest hitting because you can move so much more weight with them) as they train the body to recruit every muscle group at once for when they're really pushing big weight. This reduces the risk of muscles tearing when under big loads, which is the very last thing they want. If you want to be able to carry oak wardrobes up flights of stairs, this is the way to go about it.

I'd just like to say, i'm a pure weightlifter. I mainly squat, bench, barbell row, deadlift and overhead press and i'm pretty big and stronger than anybody I know who targets specific areas on specific days. I don't care how my body and muscle structure looks (although it looks fine), all I care about is how much weight I can pick up and put down. I think Bram might fall into this category too.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think keeping motivation is important. Whether you want to lift heavier ****, go for the pump, do 20 different exercises each day, etc., keep on doing what you like. Monitor your results and adjust accordingly.

 

[Bram Turismo]

For your back, try barbell rows (Not Dorian Yates rows). They'll sort you out!

I cannot believe I haven't thought about those!

I used to do them all the time a few years back. That or alternating DB rows between each arm with one leg resting on the bench.

I think Road Dogg pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's all about enjoying it, and feeling strong. Ripped abs would be nice, but it's not something I focus on. I just want to gain overall strength, but not gain so much weight that it would jeopardize my cycling performance. Although I am more of a time-trialist so there's no harm of being on a bit of a bulk throughout the winter.

My sister's boyfriend currently weighs 110kg, and has been lifting for 5 years now. Every time I see him he has gotten larger, and he is slowly becoming a hulk. It's always fun talking with him about training, but I'm not seeing myself become like him and that kind of muscle is way too much to have on the bike for 4 hours.

How do I see myself after next winter? A gain of overall strength and muscle mass, with focus on leg strength. At the same time I need to stay focused on cardio as well, so I don't require too much time losing weight before the cycling performance kicks in.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I think Road Dogg pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's all about enjoying it, and feeling strong. Ripped abs would be nice, but it's not something I focus on. I just want to gain overall strength, but not gain so much weight that it would jeopardize my cycling performance. Although I am more of a time-trialist so there's no harm of being on a bit of a bulk throughout the winter.

My sister's boyfriend currently weighs 110kg, and has been lifting for 5 years now. Every time I see him he has gotten larger, and he is slowly becoming a hulk. It's always fun talking with him about training, but I'm not seeing myself become like him and that kind of muscle is way too much to have on the bike for 4 hours.

How do I see myself after next winter? A gain of overall strength and muscle mass, with focus on leg strength. At the same time I need to stay focused on cardio as well, so I don't require too much time losing weight before the cycling performance kicks in.

Just remember that some of the best lifters in the world (thinking Olympic medalist lifters here) are tiny, yet easily outlift most guys who weigh 250lbs+. As i'm sure you know, a 5x5 routine or similar will get you strong as hell without much mass/size gain.

I agree with RD too, ultimately you are competing against yourself, not anyone else. For me, one of the most inspiring things is seeing a small guy (under 150lbs) outlift me lb-for-lb. No excuses, no "Oh, i'm not big/heavy enough", they just get on with it.

 

[nk4e]

Does any illnesses stop you guys from doing your regular routine?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Depends the degree of the illness. Just a sneeze or two won't keep my away from my barbell, but if I feel dizzy, have a headache or feel just generally weak and exhausted for no apparent reason I skip the day and hope for a better form the next time.

I've stopped with any kind of cardio when I've got a cold though.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Does any illnesses stop you guys from doing your regular routine?

Anything that makes me light headed or short of breath. Heavy stuff + passing out = hospital trip.

I rarely stop running for anything though.

 

[shmogt]

Does any illnesses stop you guys from doing your regular routine?

Illness is one of those things where you have to decide. If you can't put the intensity into it than what's the point. Usually if its just sniffles or small cold it won't really effect anything and you will probably feel better after. If you have stomach problems or weakness etc than no point in going. I'm sick right now and I have a special pull up routine I'm doing. This week was supposed to be like 5 sets of 6 or something like that which I should be able to do no prob however I had a hard time doing 1 and was out of breath. Didn't attempt any more and decided I was too sick to do any good anyway.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Where do you guys target the barbell when doing barbell rows? I've seen people saying to bring it up to your belly button, others saying you should bring it up to about the same spot where you let the barbell touch your chest when bench pressing. Currently I bring the barbell up to about my ribs, above the belly button but below the chest.

Also, I stopped doing pull-up negatives today. The pain in my bicep near my elbow and in the muscles on my back is way too much to bear. It feels as if something's about to give, so I skipped doing those as they were way too painful to be beneficial to complete. Possibly because I was so sore after the first time I did those negatives. I'll let this rest until next Monday and then see how things are.

 

[Pako]

Where do you guys target the barbell when doing barbell rows? I've seen people saying to bring it up to your belly button, others saying you should bring it up to about the same spot where you let the barbell touch your chest when bench pressing. Currently I bring the barbell up to about my ribs, above the belly button but below the chest.

Also, I stopped doing pull-up negatives today. The pain in my bicep near my elbow and in the muscles on my back is way too much to bear. It feels as if something's about to give, so I skipped doing those as they were way too painful to be beneficial to complete. Possibly because I was so sore after the first time I did those negatives. I'll let this rest until next Monday and then see how things are.

For the rows, are you standing upright or bent over? For upright rows, I would let the flexibility of your wrists determine that. If you're talking bent over rows, pull it through to your belt. Also alternate between over and under hand grips.

 

[mohitraina91]

Where do you guys target the barbell when doing barbell rows? I've seen people saying to bring it up to your belly button, others saying you should bring it up to about the same spot where you let the barbell touch your chest when bench pressing. Currently I bring the barbell up to about my ribs, above the belly button but below the chest.

F If you're talking bent over rows, pull it through to your belt. Also alternate between over and under hand grips.

Actually, both to the chest and to the belt are correct. They just target the back a little bit differently.

With the pull to the belt, the lats come into play quite a bit, along with the middle back, sharing the load you are lifting. Allows you to lift a heavier weight.

With the pull to the chest, the upper-middle back complex, and the rear shoulder complex is targeted better (you feel that nice squeeze).

So it really depends what you are aiming for with the exercise. I pull almost to the lower chest, because I have a whole host of exercises for the lats.

Try both out!

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I pull to the chest, straight up.

 

[shmogt]

Actually, both to the chest and to the belt are correct. They just target the back a little bit differently.

With the pull to the belt, the lats come into play quite a bit, along with the middle back, sharing the load you are lifting. Allows you to lift a heavier weight.

With the pull to the chest, the upper-middle back complex, and the rear shoulder complex is targeted better (you feel that nice squeeze).

So it really depends what you are aiming for with the exercise. I pull almost to the lower chest, because I have a whole host of exercises for the lats.

Try both out!

Was gonna say this. Also about the negative pullups they are way easier to do so you usually end up doing a lot more however they can cause a lot more stress. It's just hard to gauge when you should stop since you don't feel the same pump. If your back is still sore switching to rows will still make it hurt, only rest is gonna help.

 

[Pako]

Actually, both to the chest and to the belt are correct. They just target the back a little bit differently.

With the pull to the belt, the lats come into play quite a bit, along with the middle back, sharing the load you are lifting. Allows you to lift a heavier weight.

With the pull to the chest, the upper-middle back complex, and the rear shoulder complex is targeted better (you feel that nice squeeze).

So it really depends what you are aiming for with the exercise. I pull almost to the lower chest, because I have a whole host of exercises for the lats.

Try both out!

If you are doing a bent over row, how in the hell do you stay upright without falling over when you are pulling the weight past your center of gravity, not to mention the extra strain on your lower back. Maybe we are thinking of two different things, but I don't see it.

If you are wanting Rear delts and traps, by all means reduce the weight and bring the end of your rep up higher, but at that point it is no longer a bent over row.

Honestly though, if you feel it hitting a muscle group good and it feels natural and is a good lift for you, go for it. Don't let some meat head tell you otherwise.

 

[shmogt]

If you are doing a bent over row, how in the hell do you stay upright without falling over when you are pulling the weight past your center of gravity, not to mention the extra strain on your lower back. Maybe we are thinking of two different things, but I don't see it.

If you are wanting Rear delts and traps, by all means reduce the weight and bring the end of your rep up higher, but at that point it is no longer a bent over row.

Honestly though, if you feel it hitting a muscle group good and it feels natural and is a good lift for you, go for it. Don't let some meat head tell you otherwise.

Upright row is different. You stand up straight and pull up straight. A bent over row you just hold the bar, flex lower back and raise chest to keep tension, than push your ass back causing your body to bend forward to keep tension in glutes and hamstrings. Than squeeze your shoulders together first and once they can't squeeze more you pull with your arms (but think of pulling through your elbows). Obviously if you are being pulled down like crazy or on the negative the weight is puling you down like crazy than its too much weight. You might be able to put 200lbs+ on the bar but if you can't control it than what the point.

 

[Pako]

Upright row is different. You stand up straight and pull up straight. A bent over row you just hold the bar, flex lower back and raise chest to keep tension, than push your ass back causing your body to bend forward to keep tension in glutes and hamstrings. Than squeeze your shoulders together first and once they can't squeeze more you pull with your arms (but think of pulling through your elbows). Obviously if you are being pulled down like crazy or on the negative the weight is puling you down like crazy than its too much weight. You might be able to put 200lbs+ on the bar but if you can't control it than what the point.

Yes, upright row is different. Bent over row, as you described is correct. I guess I do more mass lifts and would never think about putting my lower back under that kind of constant pressure with heavy weight. Pulling to my chest or upper body area while bent over sounds like a bad way to screw up my low back. One handed dumb bell rows, different story. Brace up with one hand on the bench and pull with the other.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html

Now imagine pulling up to your upper body. That is putting extreme pressure on your low back. Not good my friend.

 

[shmogt]

To the chest is called Pendlay rows. It's all about explosive power. Since its so explosive it is only really the pulling part with no negative so all the weight is going up and not as much pressure on your lower back as you would think. However the sketchiness of accidentally trying to heave the weight up at the start and screwing your lower back up is the reason I never did them. Know a ton of strong guys who do tho. George Pendlay the Olympic weight lifting coach invented them but not really needed for any sort of bodybuilding. They use a wider grip too. I may try them one day since the weight load will be very high due to explosive and the wide grip higher grip will hit rear delts and traps really hard. All of what I need, but we'll see.

 

[Pako]

I thought we were talking about bent over barbell rows. With ligament issues already, the snapping motion just makes my elbows hurt....

Here is the row that you are talking about:


This is very different from your traditional bent over barbell row. I say go for it. Muscle confusion at it's best. Get big!

 

[shmogt]

Ya we are I was just saying if you are pulling to the chest it's not a bent over row anymore.

 

[Pako]

Oddly enough, today was back day. In lbs.

Barbell Shrugs
135x30
225x30
315x30
405x30
495x20
585x20
405x20

Pull Ups at 245lbs. The squat rack has three different grips to choose from. Wide, and two other narrows.
Set one of 10 - Wide over hand grip.
Set two of 10 - Mid partial supinated.
Set three of 10 - Close grip, hammer grip position.

Narrow Grip Pull Downs (cable, seated)
80x10
120x10
160x10
220x10
260x10

Cable, seated low row, independent grip. What's really cool about the independent grip/handles is you can come back so much farther then if you were using a straight or even a V-bar.
80x10
100x10
120x10

Whole workout, 45 minutes.

 

[Pako]

Best chest day in a loooooong time. My elbows have been giving me major issues lately. I recently got some Mueller's Hot Stuff and a neoprene elbow sock to get things nice and hot and get the blood to the surface. This is the hottest stuff I have ever tried. It's kind of like dipping your skin in lava. It was great, first pain free bench day in like....2 years.

Anyways, in lbs.

Flat bench
35x15
135x15
185x15
225x10
315x10
405x2

Incline Dumbbell Press
90'sx10
100'sx10
110'sx10

Cable Flys, bent over, wide fly.
35'sx10
30'sx10
30'sx10ish

I was pretty well trashed by my last set. Today was a good day!