General Workout Routines and Questions

[MarinaDiamandis]

Adding to the great advice that Pako and Luminis have already shared:

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like in this thread. Don't hesitate because you think you're being annoying, just ask.

Remember that everyone used to be the small guy in the gym. When I was the small guy, I used to feel self-conscious about how little I was lifting or how small I was compared to the big guys too, but I had my plan and knew what I needed to do.

Now I'm one of the big guys, and the thing I enjoy seeing most is smaller/younger guys turning up, going at it hard, and coming back and doing the same week after week.

The thing I least enjoy seeing is young guys who turn up with friends, admire themselves in the mirrors, sit on equipment while talking and texting, take more equipment than they need (and then don't return that equipment once they're finished with it) and then drink a can of Monster on their way out. These are the kind of guys who never make any progress despite going to the gym 6 days a week for 2-3 hours each time.

Go in, keep your head down and get your workout done. If others want to judge you, that's their business, your business is changing your body for the better.

 

[TB]

The last three post are stellar recommendations, Ryan. Listen to these guys and you'll be fine. 👍

Two short stories from my past that hopefully encourage you to not give a crap what others think:

Weight training was offered my sophomore year of high school. Before that I'd never touched a weight. Going into the class for the first time I saw I was with most of the football offensive line, some of the basketball team, part of the girls volleyball team... and my 5'5", 120 pound self that was in no sports whatsoever. I heard comments like "What are you doing here?" Fast forward to the end of the year on the hip sled and every single one of them was hollering "Push!" and "One more!" was intoxicating. I ended up with the second heaviest sled in the class, right after the football center (and the highest body weight to sled weight ratio )

Two years later in the gym I didn't have my lifting partner and wasn't particularly motivated so I laid down and started benching. Just the bar, no weights. Forty-five pounds. I could see the big guys in the mirror pointing and laughing but 15 minutes and over 200 non-stop reps later they were nodding and smiling when I went to get a drink.

Point is, as MD said, if anyone wants to judge you, let them. If you choose to ignore them or use it as motivation is up to you but DO NOT let them scare you into either quitting or not starting in the first place.

Best of luck, dude. 👍

 

[XS]

It's just me, myself, and I so I often stay at home and workout due to living nearly an hour away from the nearest gym. I have just a bench and a dumbbell set. I can't lift a lot with my lower body (because of a knee injury) so a squat rack isn't necessary. But I find that even though I don't have a lifting partner at the gym that I still perform better than when I'm at home. Maybe there's some peer pressure there? I don't know but workouts at home are not the same as the gym. I suggest to anyone to hit a gym when possible. Your progress will be better for it.


Also, I do have a question. I've experimented with many lifting techniques but for some reason I've never used drop-sets. I think a lot of it has to do with the nature of that technique and not having a partner makes me overly cautious that if something were to go wrong at home nobody would be there to help me. Anyway, do you guys find drop-sets to be significantly more beneficial than say a routine that uses a constant heavy weight for a specific muscle group? I want to change my routine and technique for a while and was just wondering if drop-sets would be a beneficial change.

 

[shmogt]

Oh my lord. Go to a bit before 27min and prepare for your mind to explode. George Leeman aka "babyslayer" deadlifts 855lbs like it's nothing. A few years ago he bulked an extra 185lbs in one year. He is only 22 right now.

 

[Michael88]

But I find that even though I don't have a lifting partner at the gym that I still perform better than when I'm at home. Maybe there's some peer pressure there? I don't know but workouts at home are not the same as the gym. I suggest to anyone to hit a gym when possible. Your progress will be better for it.

I'm in the same situation, the next gym is almost an hour away, thats why I bought all the necessary equipment and started lifting at home years ago. And I absolutely have to agree, its MUCH harder to motivate yourself without having anyone around, I'm sure I would have reached my goals faster in a gym.

Anyway, do you guys find drop-sets to be significantly more beneficial than say a routine that uses a constant heavy weight for a specific muscle group? I want to change my routine and technique for a while and was just wondering if drop-sets would be a beneficial change.

Drop sets work great to break plateaus, when you cant get any progress with your current fitness plan use drop sets. They give you an enormous pump, just keep in mind they're very exhausting and doing drop sets at the beginning of your exercise might interfere with other exercises you might be doing later.

Though I prefer forced reps and negative lifts over drop sets. I lift the usual weight, do the usual amount of reps and when I'm finished with the stint I immediately grab a slightly lighter dumb/barbell and try to squeeze another 5-6 reps out of me.
And from my experience negative curls work incredibly well with certain muscles like the triceps, my triceps got much bigger in a matter of weeks when I started doing one armed negatives. Biceps negatives don't work that well, sadly, at least for me.

 

[XS]

Thanks for the input!! Alas, I wish I could perform negatives and forced reps but without a partner I definitely cannot, especially with bench press or like exercises. I'll keep drop sets in mind. I haven't reached a plateau yet, so I might stick with my original plan of superslow reps and if I plateau, try drop sets or go back to rest-pause. Thanks again.

 

[Submerged]

If you are a member of a gym but also have some free weights at home, I often found that if for whatever reason you had to miss a gym session due to work/family commitments, the freeweights at home was a useful stop gap to still keep you motivated and going for your targets and goals for your next time in the gym itself.

It was still something that was better than doing nothing and sitting around.

Although training at home is extremely hard to keep motivated and keeping it going when the fatigue hits. Just depends how much you want to change your body to be fair.

 

[Omnis]

Oh my lord. Go to a bit before 27min and prepare for your mind to explode. George Leeman aka "babyslayer" deadlifts 855lbs like it's nothing. A few years ago he bulked an extra 185lbs in one year. He is only 22 right now.

Those guys aren't natural. That Elliot guy did steroids at one point. Not too familiar with babyslayer, but from what I read he's clean now but wasn't always natural. It's hard to believe that he didn't do anything in getting that big.

Anyway, that's ridiculously awesome that he's 22 and can lift that raw. Not sure he'll be able to do that forever though. Remember, Konstantin Konstantinovs pulled raw too. Curved back too. He hurt himself eventually and now he's just a bodyguard.

 

[Luminis]

Agreed on all fronts with Pako, MD and TB. Just one thing I forgot:

Don't get talked into believing that supplements are some sort of magic stuff that'll turn you into a beast of a guy within weeks. We've got a store at the gym that does sell that stuff, and they're fairly happy to leave newer members with that exact impression. Don't get me wrong, the right stuff helps a ton, but the expensive, fancy stuff that they might and try to sell - that's just not worth it. And it isn't needed when you're just starting out, either.

A lot of my friends started coming to my gym recently (that's partially my 'fault', I suppose) and there's this one guy who's been talked into buying ridicuously expensive supplements - despite me advising against it.

 

[Ryanswannell]

Cheers for all of the replies everyone, a great help 👍

Don't get talked into believing that supplements are some sort of magic stuff that'll turn you into a beast of a guy within weeks. We've got a store at the gym that does sell that stuff, and they're fairly happy to leave newer members with that exact impression. Don't get me wrong, the right stuff helps a ton, but the expensive, fancy stuff that they might and try to sell - that's just not worth it. And it isn't needed when you're just starting out, either.

This is another thing that I'm a little unsure about.
As I said, I dont want to go crazy here, I just want to get in a little better shape, so my goals are not to become this massive muscular type, I would just like more muscle definition.
So, with that being said do I even need any supllements at all, as well as these crazy amounts of protien everyone takes?

 

[TB]

Extra protein (not terribly ideal but i had a quart of chocolate milk after every workout ) and a good multi-vitamin should really be all you need.

 

[Luminis]

So, with that being said do I even need any supllements at all, as well as these crazy amounts of protien everyone takes?

Not at all. Protein is vital if you want to build a good amount of muscle, but you really don't need all that much if you don't want to get big. Most of your protein input should come from your diet, anyway. Chicken and fish is always nice - low fat, not a huge amount of callories, but a good amount of protein.

Personally, I like to add some dairy products to my diet. Some of these contain huge amounts of protein and I'd say that you're good with these. I've been eating low-fat quark (basically curd cheese) for a good while and if I wasn't trying to get bigger, that'd be all I need. Protein shakes taste way better, though

Protein shakes aren't all that expensive, either.

 

[phillgt2002]

Cheers for all of the replies everyone, a great help 👍




This is another thing that I'm a little unsure about.
As I said, I dont want to go crazy here, I just want to get in a little better shape, so my goals are not to become this massive muscular type, I would just like more muscle definition.
So, with that being said do I even need any supllements at all, as well as these crazy amounts of protien everyone takes?

You don't have to have protein powder/shakes to gain muscle. Like others may have said, protein is generally used for bulking up/gaining higher amounts of muscle. If you want to gain musle just lift and make sure you follow a pretty decent diet that's one with your lifting. EX: Meats, nuts, green vegetables and milk based subjects. Mix a bit of cardio in also.

I have the same height as you and I'm the same age. You just weigh 70 pounds less than me

Also, does anyone have any experience with these machines?

 

[Omnis]

Those are a waste of money. I'm telling you, just stir the pot! That's the most insane ab workout ever.

 

[Luminis]

I guess I'll be combining this "stirring the pot" thing with these sorts of leg raises:



I really, really, really dislike all sorts of sit-up variations. I did those for a while, but doing sit-ups makes my back ache 90% of the time, so I'm sticking with leg raises now, mostly. I'll give the stirring a shot, though.

 

[Pako]

My abs are sore today from standing tricep extensions. Go figure.

 

[Michael88]

Thanks for the input!! Alas, I wish I could perform negatives and forced reps but without a partner I definitely cannot, especially with bench press or like exercises.

Me neither, but I do forced reps when doing one-armed biceps curls and triceps curls, thats where you don't need a partner. It works great! 👍

I'll keep drop sets in mind. I haven't reached a plateau yet, so I might stick with my original plan of superslow reps and if I plateau, try drop sets or go back to rest-pause. Thanks again.

Do drop sets for a couple of weeks and see how your body responds to them. IMO drops sets is not an exercise technique that should have a fixed position in your every day training plan, its very demanding and might even overwork a muscle group sabotaging your progress.
I suggest doing them only every two cycles.

*edit*

A week ago I started doing standing military shoulder presses, I really regret that I never tried them before, its so much more fun than sitting presses and its more demanding on the middle shoulder than any other exercise I know. Now its my favorite exercise by far.
It really feels like a true feat of strength when you pick up a heavy object and lift it over your head a couple of times. Right now I'm doing about 155 with 8 reps 4 stints, my goal is lifting my own weight a couple of times. But I guess thats a very hard to roach goal, 155 is only 73% of my own weight if my calculation is correct.

 

[XS]

Okay, I gotcha. Makes sense. Tonight is upper and core, I'll try them out, or maybe I'll try some negatives like you suggested. Either way I'll implement something new for this workout.

 

[phillgt2002]

Those are a waste of money. I'm telling you, just stir the pot! That's the most insane ab workout ever.

Well unfortunately I already have one from a while back.

 

[Brando-K]

That video's really impressive. I think I'd be lucky to lift that much by the time I'm 22.
I did get a PB in DL today though 3 plates a.k.a 140kg (including bar). Now I just need to get the grip strength to do it more than once. Then onto 4 plates.

 

[Ryanswannell]

Right, so I start my new job in about two weeks and will start to get paid every four weeks onwards, which means I will then be able to start going to the gym . My goals aren't really specific in terms of numbers as I don't know what is realistic to expect, but as I think I mentioned previously I would like to drop a small amount of fat while steadily gaining some muscle.
I am not too fussed about how long this would take as I understand it is a very long process, and I don't want to go crazy about the amounts of muscle I would like to gain, I would just like a little more definition that's all.
At the moment my weight is about 140 lbs @ 5"7 and I'm 18 years old, so I just have a few questions about what to do on my first time/few weeks at the gym.

1) How often should I attend the gym per week, and for how long each session?
2) How much cardio work should I do during these sessions, and how much time should I devote to weights?
3) How many different muscle groups should I work during each weight session?
4) When I'm lifting weights, how much should I push myself? I haven't really lifted weights before so I'm unsure if I should be lifting a comfortable amount of weight, or lifting that little bit heavier so that it starts to "burn" towards the end of each set.
5) How many reps/sets should I aim to do per muscle group?

I will probably have more questions later on, and thanks in advance to those who answer, it's very much appreciated 👍

 

[Pako]

Like I said before, everything is subjective, but I can tell you what has worked for me and the buddies I've lifted with.
1) How often should I attend the gym per week, and for how long each session?
-I would lift 5 days a week. I would lift weights for 45-60 minutes tops. Get in there, lift hard and keep it intense. Don't just sit around. The goal is to get blood in the muscle and to keep it there throughout the workout.

2) How much cardio work should I do during these sessions, and how much time should I devote to weights?
-I would do 20-30 minutes of fat burning cardio, no more than three times a week. My days are split. So I lift at noon, and do cardio at night. On days that I can't do cardio at night, I would do cardio first so I was good and warm for lifting.

3) How many different muscle groups should I work during each weight session?
-I would concentrate mainly on one muscle group per day. I have posted my weekly workouts several times in this thread. I'm sure if you look for it, you can find it to give you an idea of both what body parts as well as an idea of what lifts and how many reps to set for a goal. I found a basic 5 day a week routine to follow here:

I have six major routines but only workout 5 days a week. That gives one major body part an entire week off.

Monday - Chest/Abs
Tuesday - Bi's/Hams
Wednesday - Tri's/Calves
Thursday - Legs/Legs
Friday - Shoulders/Abs

Sat - Sun Rest

Monday - Back/Back
Tuesday - Chest/Abs
Wednesday - Bi's/Hams
Thursday - Tri's/Calves
Friday - Legs/Legs

Just keep the routines in rotation. Every previous week's Friday workout will be skipped that week, and the Monday workout of that week will be the workout that skipped the prior week. You get to start a new routine fresh every Monday. Gives each body group a fresh Monday every 6 weeks.

4) When I'm lifting weights, how much should I push myself? I haven't really lifted weights before so I'm unsure if I should be lifting a comfortable amount of weight, or lifting that little bit heavier so that it starts to "burn" towards the end of each set.
-It's supposed to burn, it's supposed to hurt. I would say to keep it lighter until you are good and warm, almost pre-fatigued with the lighter weight before you even start getting heavier. This will help from getting injured.

5) How many reps/sets should I aim to do per muscle group?
-Again, find that routine as a starting point.

 

[Pako]

In other news, I tried some free standing military presses today. FELT GREAT!

I did them behind the head as well as in front. Didn't get too crazy, but after several sets I worked my way up to 185lb for fronts and rears for 10 with my spot. It was crazy stupid heavy. I can't believe how much harder it was than Smith machine militarys. It was a great preloader to dumbbell military presses.

 

[Michael88]

Pako, I'm confused, one week off for each muscle group seems an awful lot of rest to me, does it really work for you? (Dumb question, I remember your pic, but still...)
I talked to a lot of people who do regular strength training (very successfully I might add) and the common opinion seems to be that a large muscle group like chest or hamstring regenerate in about three days, smaller muscle groups like biceps and triceps in 48 hours.
Thats the reason why I adopted a 4 day training schedule, I do all muscle groups in four days, rest one day and start anew and it worked well for me. Ok, I've developed two plateaus now but still.

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.

In other news, I tried some free standing military presses today. FELT GREAT!

I love standing military presses, the behind the back variation works my upper traps really hard, best trap exercise right after shrugs.

 

[Pako]

Pako, I'm confused, one week off for each muscle group seems an awful lot of rest to me, does it really work for you? (Dumb question, I remember your pic, but still...)
I talked to a lot of people who do regular strength training (very successfully I might add) and the common opinion seems to be that a large muscle group like chest or hamstring regenerate in about three days, smaller muscle groups like biceps and triceps in 48 hours.
Thats the reason why I adopted a 4 day training schedule, I do all muscle groups in four days, rest one day and start anew and it worked well for me. Ok, I've developed two plateaus now but still.

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.



I love standing military presses, the behind the back variation works my upper traps really hard, best trap exercise right after shrugs.

Not a problem, I'll share my experience. Notice that back day is 4 days after biceps. What's the secondary for back? Biceps. In essence, my biceps are getting hit actually twice a week. Triceps are getting hit on secondaries on bench as well as shoulder days. Hams are getting hit a couple times a week as well. Once is isolated, and a couple days later as a secondary to leg day when I'm doing squats and presses. Not to mention hams getting hit on back day when I'm doing dead lifts.

If I was 20 years old and full of testosterone, I'm sure I would be recovering much faster and could shorten up the time span between intervals. I have done closer gapped training in the past. Shoot, I remember full body workouts every other day with cardio in the middle of the days off.

This routine has provided the best growth. I never feel over trained and I am always fresh to push my guts out on every lift, every day. It only works if you push the limits. You are fresh so you should be able to do push until you puke. :-)

As of late, I have actually thought about coming in the evenings for a second round. An offset routine if you will that would shorten the gaps, but I have continued to get gains with this routine so I've stuck with it.

I did legs on Wednesday this week and my quads are still trashed, calves are trashed, traps and lats, all trashed. Chest is pretty good, but I will be on chest again this Monday ready to push.

The other issue I have is trying to keep the workouts to 45-60 minutes. If I were to try and hit every muscle group within a 3-4 day rotation, I would have to shorten up my sets for the different body groups, thereby defeating my goal of tearing down that muscle.

There are guys, that with the help of science, that will be on a every other day rotation because their bodies are healing that fast. This allows for some extreme muscle growth, and fast. I have, by decision, decided to take a more natural approach and need to make sure I am fully healed before I tear down the tissue again.

That's my take on, and as always, if you can heal up faster and not over train with a shorter span between healing time, all power to ya. I would take advantage of this time, if that is the case, because it won't last for ever.



[EDIT]
I just saw you said, "Strength Training....." Yes, when I was benching for competition, I was training chest 3 times a week, but it was a totally different kind of workout. Short reps, heavy weight, and it was progressive with Mondays being light days, and Fridays being the heaviest. I got up to 405lbs for a couple reps on my bench. It worked, but I was actually smaller than I am now, certainly didn't have the muscle definition that I have now when I was strength training.

[EDIT 2]
I tried to find a couple of dudes to help compare the strength trainer against the body builder, but all the google images for strength training just had really fricken huge guys! According to Google anyways, strength training makes some pretty massive physiques that any body builder would be jealous of.

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

I think a lot of the images on Google are either of weightlifters who are pulling really crazy lifts, and so are massive because they need to be massive, bodybuilders who have been incorrectly labelled as weightlifters, or guys that mix and match both types of weight training.

Benedikt Magnusson only deadlifted 2.7 times his bodyweight, there are guys that weigh half as much as him, look like a guy off the street, and deadlift three or four times their bodyweight! Just because you are pulling something huge, that doesn't mean that you are huge.

 

[Pako]

^ Yes, I agree.

And don't get me wrong, body builders can be strong, they are strong, but powerlifters just have a different physique than body builders.

 

[Yukon]

Yukon how did you marathon go?

It went well, thanks. I was aiming for under four hours and did in 3'56.24. I went out steady but found myself upping the pace ever so slightly every now and then but then decreasing it slightly knowing that it wasn't the right thing to do. I did run the first hour too fast though, it cost me dearly in the later stages of the run as I was going very slowly into the final six. Lesson learnt and I've gained a ton of experience that I can now apply to the future.

Great job on your time. That's very impressive for a first marathon. I've created a running thread where you can find a little write-up on my race. Again, good job. 👍

 

[TB]

Blatantly ripping off Pako's routine with a slight tweak:

Monday - Chest/Abs
Tuesday - Bi's/Hams
Wednesday - Tri's/Calves
Thursday - Legs/Legs
Friday - Shoulders/Abs
Sat - Back/Back

after only the second day I'm completely wrecked, so thanks for making my day at work miserable, Pako.

Now to fire up Exel so I can track my progress...

 

[mcfizzle]

It went well, thanks. I was aiming for under four hours and did in 3'56.24. I went out steady but found myself upping the pace ever so slightly every now and then but then decreasing it slightly knowing that it wasn't the right thing to do. I did run the first hour too fast though, it cost me dearly in the later stages of the run as I was going very slowly into the final six. Lesson learnt and I've gained a ton of experience that I can now apply to the future.

Great job on your time. That's very impressive for a first marathon. I've created a running thread where you can find a little write-up on my race. Again, good job. 👍

Great job! It sounds like a tough race with the hills. I made the same mistake. I sped up around 16.5 miles and paid for it the final 10K.