- 40,808
You're the last person to lecture about this.
Genesis Teases New Supercar Concept for Gran Turismo 7
- Thread starter Famine
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Grimm6Jack
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- Grimm66Jack
Not all VGTs are awful, as pointed out, the Bugatti VGT, Audi VGT and the VW GTI Roadster were fully built and are basically one-off concept cars. At least they exist and can't be called fanfics at all.
The problem however starts with those brands, that literally just design cars for their dreams, and nothing more than that. Cars that quite clearly will never, ever go past the stage of just designs on a board, not even as concept cars.
And the big problem is that most of the VGTs are basically exactly that and the game gets cluttered with them, and PD waste time with them
Just look at all the Peugeots. Yeah, quite believable that a brand like Peugeot that never made a single supercar, would now start making crazy stuff like the L500R or the VGT (a car with about 800hp and very high performance, basically a hypercar).
All 3 of the Tomahawks... Even the Street (Tomahawk S) model is just not going to happen, and if it does, it will never be with the specs it shows in the game (NA V10, 1020hp, 900kg and ridiculously low-drag but somewhat decent downforce in corners and hybrid power that makes the car reach almost 500kph). This is also the same brand that put the Viper out of production... Yeah, get real.
All of the Jaguars. All of the Alpines... and speaking of these (and a few others which also includes the Tomahawks), there's also a problem that most of these are almost duplicates of each other with just different spec sheets, and to add even more insult to injury, we get some of these cars designed to compete in Gr.1 or other categories... Why?????
Even the Daihatsu VGT that looks like a kei-car racer, do any of you seriously believe that car is ever going to be built even as a concept? Hell no... Who is even interested in a car like that? Or the Mitsubishi VGT, this is another brand that's reaching with this design and yet gave up on the Evo.
I have absolutely no interest on driving cars that have no real life testing, that have no history in racing or in the roads. Concept cars is already pushing it, but cars that weren't even past being miniature models? That's just reaching for the stars.
I didn't mind the idea of the Red Bull X project because that was supposed to be just a car with actual current-age tech to give us an idea of how fast "we" could drive a car with no regulations holding it back. And it even had an actual aerodynamicist genius like Newey behind. That was "one" car.
This VGT program is involving already dozens, and most of them aren't even GTs as the program itself calls them. The Tomahawk X can in no way be compared to the Red Bull X. The Red Bull X car could actually exist with the specs it had and perform at those levels (just not with a human on a wheel), the Tomahawk X? No... Not really.
As Keep put it... There's THOUSANDS of past and current road legal models and race cars to choose from that the vast majority of people would like to see and drive in the game. Those are the ones that should get priority.
Just within Japan alone they have a plethora of significant models that could be in the game, road and race cars. Just from Japan alone.
Instead of adding this pointless fanfic Porsche that has no roof, why not actually focus on a similar style car that actually exists (and there's more than one of) like the SLR Sterling Moss for example or the Ferrari Monza SP2?
EDIT: As for this new Genesis VGT... Just another slot of the already pathetic 3 car figure per month that's going to get wasted...
The problem however starts with those brands, that literally just design cars for their dreams, and nothing more than that. Cars that quite clearly will never, ever go past the stage of just designs on a board, not even as concept cars.
And the big problem is that most of the VGTs are basically exactly that and the game gets cluttered with them, and PD waste time with them
Just look at all the Peugeots. Yeah, quite believable that a brand like Peugeot that never made a single supercar, would now start making crazy stuff like the L500R or the VGT (a car with about 800hp and very high performance, basically a hypercar).
All 3 of the Tomahawks... Even the Street (Tomahawk S) model is just not going to happen, and if it does, it will never be with the specs it shows in the game (NA V10, 1020hp, 900kg and ridiculously low-drag but somewhat decent downforce in corners and hybrid power that makes the car reach almost 500kph). This is also the same brand that put the Viper out of production... Yeah, get real.
All of the Jaguars. All of the Alpines... and speaking of these (and a few others which also includes the Tomahawks), there's also a problem that most of these are almost duplicates of each other with just different spec sheets, and to add even more insult to injury, we get some of these cars designed to compete in Gr.1 or other categories... Why?????
Even the Daihatsu VGT that looks like a kei-car racer, do any of you seriously believe that car is ever going to be built even as a concept? Hell no... Who is even interested in a car like that? Or the Mitsubishi VGT, this is another brand that's reaching with this design and yet gave up on the Evo.
I have absolutely no interest on driving cars that have no real life testing, that have no history in racing or in the roads. Concept cars is already pushing it, but cars that weren't even past being miniature models? That's just reaching for the stars.
I didn't mind the idea of the Red Bull X project because that was supposed to be just a car with actual current-age tech to give us an idea of how fast "we" could drive a car with no regulations holding it back. And it even had an actual aerodynamicist genius like Newey behind. That was "one" car.
This VGT program is involving already dozens, and most of them aren't even GTs as the program itself calls them. The Tomahawk X can in no way be compared to the Red Bull X. The Red Bull X car could actually exist with the specs it had and perform at those levels (just not with a human on a wheel), the Tomahawk X? No... Not really.
As Keep put it... There's THOUSANDS of past and current road legal models and race cars to choose from that the vast majority of people would like to see and drive in the game. Those are the ones that should get priority.
Just within Japan alone they have a plethora of significant models that could be in the game, road and race cars. Just from Japan alone.
Instead of adding this pointless fanfic Porsche that has no roof, why not actually focus on a similar style car that actually exists (and there's more than one of) like the SLR Sterling Moss for example or the Ferrari Monza SP2?
EDIT: As for this new Genesis VGT... Just another slot of the already pathetic 3 car figure per month that's going to get wasted...
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- 51,156
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I mean, listen to what the designers are saying. They get to use this platform to keep in touch with future generations. Kaz is not going to say no to a manufacturer that wants to use his platform(even if Sony don’t want to pay them what they’re worth).
As much as I want to see a ‘71 Escort RS in the game, this Thread is about the car in the article.
As much as I want to see a ‘71 Escort RS in the game, this Thread is about the car in the article.
- 912
- United States
It was about being able to race your car against anything from hot rods to LMP's, then to be able to buy those other cars in game and race them.
@Jack: The Daihatsu VGT can't even be entered into the Kei car races.
As for concepts, you'd eat those words after playing through GT1. I'm sure that the Grand Valley endurance race and the final championship were winnable with other cars, but the only thing I could win them with was the game's single concept car.
- 87,105
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Hol' up. Peugeot might never have made a supercar, but it's sure put out a whole bunch of supercar concepts from long before GT was a thing. You can go see them in the Musee de L'Aventure Peugeot in Sochaux.
Here's the 2012 Onyx:
220mph-capable, using the 908 HDI FAP hybrid V8 for around 700hp. Also fully functional and I recall it did a run up the Goodwood Hill.
Here's the 2004 907:
Six-litre V12 - made from two regular Peugeot 3-litre V6s - good for 500hp and 190mph.
How about the 1988 Oxia?
Carbon-fibre/kevlar body, mid-mounted, 600hp 2.9 V6.
My personal favourite, the 1984 Quasar:
Mid-mounted 205 T16 Group B engine turned up to 600hp, and permanent 4WD (60:40 like the T16).
In fact Peugeot is a particularly bad example because the exact car you reference, the L500R, was just a regular show concept revealed in 2016 - more than a year ahead of Gran Turismo Sport - which paid homage to the Peugeot L45 that won the 1916 Indianapolis 500. It wasn't a Vision GT car until, over a year later, they put a Vision GT branding on it:
So pretty much entirely believable, really. Especially given the 9X8 is a thing that exists now...
Keef
Premium
- 25,094
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
- 818
My my, look at what we have here. Another glorious Vision GT car coming this month. Christmas is coming early for Vision GT enthusiasts.
Now we just need another Vision GT car to fill in the third slot below for this fantastic month of September.
I am hoping the third slot will be a Ferrari Vision GT.
Now we just need another Vision GT car to fill in the third slot below for this fantastic month of September.
I am hoping the third slot will be a Ferrari Vision GT.
Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
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- Grimm66Jack
Fact of the matter... They never did release a supercar, nothing past concepts. Also, is that concept car (L500R) exactly as spec'd as the one in GT? Fully built?
The 9X8 is a race car through and through... Not even worth comparing. Peugeot made the 908 HDI and the 905 Evo before it... Oh... look, more cars PD could focus on putting in the game. The GR010 is lonely.
EDIT: Did some research on that L500R and found this:
"Prior to the inclusion in Gran Turismo Sport, the car was previously unveiled as a design concept on May 27, 2016, with no mention of Vision Gran Turismo program."
"... unveiled as a design concept..."
Enough said.
Almost... ... almost...
EDIT: VGT enthusiasts really don't take kind to someone "crapping" over their fanfic cars I see?
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- 819
- Austria
Nope, and please don’t proceed with this kind of behavior, it’s just unnecessary.
And about lecturing, if I know something somebody seem to get wrong, I correct it, simple as that.
And as it seems that here some loud people who are just interested in having a opinion, but don’t want to go the way of acquiring the needed knowledge for it, I will, again, correct them. You have a problem with this?
- 87,105
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That being what I said, yes.
The point remains: Peugeot didn't suddenly start making supercar concepts because of Vision GT, it's made them for decades. Including the exact car you cited, which wasn't even originally created as a Vision GT.
So yes
you should believe that it would make supercar concept Vision GTs, since it's entirely in keeping with the brand's history.
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- 32
- Canada
This game doesn't need anymore VGT's. Can we get some real cars please. Some dealerships in this game have one car.
Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
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- Grimm66Jack
Maybe I should've been more specific and not omit things, but I thought I was being clear enough. My apologies.
I meant that Peugeot won't just start transforming the VGTs it created as designs in Gran Turismo (or before like the L500R)... as production cars.
My whole post was almost about those VGTs just being cars that won't ever go into production, just "fanfics" that will stay as such given the brands history (and logical view of such cars, some of them are just not practical whatsoever for any use, racing or for the road).
Almost reminds me of Supercar Blondie's crap showings about these alienlike one-off cars that will never see the light of day into production due to how crazy out of reach they are... other than just being one-offs. It's basically what most of the VGTs remind me of.
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- 2,043
- United Kingdom
- AWRacing17
So what it boils down to is that you actually don’t understand the purpose of the VGT program,
Somehow you think it affects real life cars coming to the game due to resources, but guess what licensing is more of a factor than the VGT programme sucking up resources, but if you read about the VGT programme you’ll know it’s mostly designed by the manufacturers.
- 87,105
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Just as it didn't with the Onyx, or 907, or Oxia, or Quasar - or as most manufacturers also don't and haven't with most concepts over the last century. That's not what concept cars are for, and it's also not a specific problem of or created by Vision GT. Vision GT is just a way of car manufacturers showing their concept cars off to fans digitally. Sometimes quite literally - along with the Peugeot L500R, at least the Subaru VIZIV, Mitsubishi XR-PHEV, and BMW Vision GT were not designed as Vision GT cars for Gran Turismo; they were concept cars which the brands put a Vision GT badge on afterward. The Peugeot is just the most egregious, because it was unveiled 18 months before it was a VGT.
However VGT also means the brands can make these concept cars "driveable", which is something afforded to precious few concept cars; it's just too expensive to make fully functioning, one-off concepts. Most of the time they're not even made of car parts because making unique tooling is too expensive; unless they're destined for production, they're usually sculpted clay bucks.
That's why designers like Vision GT: the virtual world means these concept designs can be viewed in motion, which is what literally all of them talk about all the time but most of the time the cars are clay models under fifteen layers of paint that you'd be lucky to see roll on and off a stand pushed by six people.
Personally I don't really enjoy looking at or driving most of them. The LM55 gets a pass because rotary (and also Mazda), the BMW is actually pretty nice, the Infiniti looks great but drives like ass, and the Suzuki is excellent. Most of the rest I could easily forget existed. Or don't exist. Whatever.
I'm quite looking forward to the Genesis - whether it's a Vision GT or just a regular concept car - because it looks pretty neat, whenever it arrives. Which is also not confirmed, so I don't really know why people are losing their minds over it being in the September 29th update.
- 2,611
- Brazil
It do be like that sometimes
Grimm6Jack
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- Grimm66Jack
I don't mind being shown concept designs, or heck, even having them in the game and driving them. Most of my complaints from them is, for one, the way most of them look and also the way most of them are designed (the Tomahawk for example, I think it looks pretty cool, but I don't like the idea behind how it was designed to be), another, them being able to be on the same race/piece of tarmac as the actual real cars, because they just feel out of place, they can be in the game but be restricted to time trials or something or just their own race events like the VGT menu we got a few updates ago. And 3rd and most importantly, despite what people, say, resources are used to put these cars in the game, minimal? doesn't matter, it seems like PD needs all the resources they can get to just put cars in the game and yet we not only get 3 per month, but some of those slots have already been occupied by these VGTs.
I would still be "against" them even if the majority of people wanted them, but its not the case at all, only a really niche group of people are fine with the idea of having more and more of these cars in the game, it's been quite a topic of negativity all around the GT community everywhere, and in my view, with good reason.
Almost like the Online state of the game... Stats show that not even 1% of the playerbase completed 50 sport races, yet Online has received more updates (in terms of QoL) than the single player campaign... These guys just do the opposite of what most of their players want. Most want real cars, GIVE US more real cars, and less VGTs, NONE of them for that matter.
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- 1,295
- Colombia
I remember the gold days when GT represent the real concepts from the brands
Well the MTRC was a strange situation from Toyota but with a real implementations
and literally the first VGT and no body cares because it is one of a kind, but today almost 50 cars are annoying VGT's and more to come...
Well the MTRC was a strange situation from Toyota but with a real implementations
and literally the first VGT and no body cares because it is one of a kind, but today almost 50 cars are annoying VGT's and more to come...
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- AWRacing17
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- JDA1982
And here's the thing, the VGT cars are real concept cars too.
You don't have to like them, but they are concept cars designed by the manufaturers. Some of them are sculpted into scale or lifesized models, some are turned into working machines, some live their life in drawings and digital renders. It all sounds like it's pretty indistinguishable from real concept cars to me.
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- 2,099
- Zimbabwe
Good point. Chiron's been out for years and we're still just stuck with the VGT precursor in the game.
- 819
- Austria
Man really? They made concept Cars Long before, as almost any other manufacturer, it’s isnt something new, and a lot of concept cars are dream cars that were clearly intended to not ever go into production, this rarely happens and can most times ain’t be predicted. Manufacturers test the audiences, or test new technology’s, design languages or just wanted to promote a image. Look at the auto shows, the Motoramas in the US in the 50s for example, they mostly just showed some crazy, fancy concept cars that would clearly never be built, but they attracted people to a brand and created an image for the particular brand. I often see especially complaints about cars like the Chapparel or the Tomahawk. From the beginning on, there were crazy concept cars, even cars like a Ford (I think it was called Nucleon) that was said to have a nuclear propulsion system (which it in reality never had), or the Chrysler Turbine, the Pontiacs that looked like Rockets and stuff.
And these are just the early ones from the US, I got several books with hundreds of pages of concept cars just for one decade, most of them are crazy and never appeared as a production car in any form.
And that most of the VGTs have never been built is in this context not a reasonable argument, it just shows that you didn’t get the concept of concept cars. It’s like complaining that you ain’t able to buy all these clothes you see on the catwalk of a fashion show.
So about the VGTs, they are absolutely in the tradition of concept cars, and serve the purpose of them, which can differ from car to car.
And another thing, about this argument that the VGT program doesn’t even stick to its rules, that just real „Gran Turismos“ should qualify for this program because it’s in the name..
Does anyone complain about a VW Golf GTI for example, or the Ford GT, or GT1 class or a lot of other racing classes that don’t stick to the definition of a „Gran Turismo“ even when it’s in the name?
This is really annoying to be honest, it’s like everything PD does now gets put under a microscope and even when people don’t find anything, they create their own narratives to have another reason to complain about them, because yeah, people like to complain. There’s actual wrongs PD and Kaz did, and there’s this nonsense like what is going on here for example.
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If you like VGT cars cool… I personally hate most of them and I’m not interested in anymore being added to the game. There are several production vehicles and race cars that PD should be focusing on but it is what it is. I’ve played this game once over the last month and I just check on this site to see if there’s any exciting news. There never is…
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