- 59
- Canada
Good point about the dyno.
So now the leading theory is PD hires chimps to record vacuums running on a dyno.
So now the leading theory is PD hires chimps to record vacuums running on a dyno.
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
- 4,667 comments
- 347,735 views
- 8,704
It's not bleed from the dyno.
Some of you claim PD half-arse the recordings by not using a dyno, others claim they don't properly "isolate" the dyno sounds whilst recording. You can't both be right, since the "vacuum" sound is consistent across all cars.
I prefer to think I'm right, naturally: the vacuum sound is primarily due to the "engine" sample, which is 100% mechanical in nature. That is exacerbated by samples that are short (they have to have lower detail in order to not be obviously "looping") and too few in number across the rev range (idle, mid and high speed), which means they're pitched shifted further than in most contemporary games. This is a result of abandoning sampling and focusing on the new system, plus memory limitations (either of previous systems, or of the PS3). Making new samples specifically as a stop gap requires more man power, when they're already re-doing all cars for the new system.
A real engine has other sources, which traditionally PD has neglected (accidentally, up until GT4's production - that's how long the new sound design has been in planning for). Mostly I'm referring to intake / induction sound, which is the defining sound in something like an R8 or M3, both of which are exceptionally vacuumy in-game in "interior" views. It's hugely important in practically every case, even if not immediately apparent (it blends and hides well in the mix).
Also, the first sniff of GT on PS4 will have the new sounds. Prediction: a PS4 GT will be shown off / teased, but still be some time off. But don't worry, "if you have a PS3 and GT6, you can experience these next gen features with an update, tomorrow." Something vaguely marketing revisionist like that, at any rate.
The difficulty, the "breakthrough", is in getting something designed to run on PS4 to work on PS3 - like the tessellation (which you can see they "switch off" processing for, by defaulting to a low level of detail, once the car reaches a certain range from the camera - PS4 will not need that to the same visible degree).
Some of you claim PD half-arse the recordings by not using a dyno, others claim they don't properly "isolate" the dyno sounds whilst recording. You can't both be right, since the "vacuum" sound is consistent across all cars.
I prefer to think I'm right, naturally: the vacuum sound is primarily due to the "engine" sample, which is 100% mechanical in nature. That is exacerbated by samples that are short (they have to have lower detail in order to not be obviously "looping") and too few in number across the rev range (idle, mid and high speed), which means they're pitched shifted further than in most contemporary games. This is a result of abandoning sampling and focusing on the new system, plus memory limitations (either of previous systems, or of the PS3). Making new samples specifically as a stop gap requires more man power, when they're already re-doing all cars for the new system.
A real engine has other sources, which traditionally PD has neglected (accidentally, up until GT4's production - that's how long the new sound design has been in planning for). Mostly I'm referring to intake / induction sound, which is the defining sound in something like an R8 or M3, both of which are exceptionally vacuumy in-game in "interior" views. It's hugely important in practically every case, even if not immediately apparent (it blends and hides well in the mix).
Also, the first sniff of GT on PS4 will have the new sounds. Prediction: a PS4 GT will be shown off / teased, but still be some time off. But don't worry, "if you have a PS3 and GT6, you can experience these next gen features with an update, tomorrow." Something vaguely marketing revisionist like that, at any rate.
The difficulty, the "breakthrough", is in getting something designed to run on PS4 to work on PS3 - like the tessellation (which you can see they "switch off" processing for, by defaulting to a low level of detail, once the car reaches a certain range from the camera - PS4 will not need that to the same visible degree).
- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
I too was thinking that PD wouldn't have been irresponsible enough to leave dyno sounds in a sound bite but, was considering the sucking noise that comes from the intake could be causing this problem.
- 2,884
- Near Reading, Uk
- JohnSchoonsBeard
I have a similar setup (maybe more extreme) on my a/v amp. On the rare ocassion I get to play on loudspeakers (empty house) every car sounds a lot better. They still need improvement but it does make me wonder if late one night 15 years ago, the cleaning lady at PD central fiddled around with the AV room amp settings and the audio mixing team have been working with those ever since thinking everything sounded better. She could have been a Microsoft plant.
If only it were that simple.
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- 8,704
@Kamuifanboy There is no intake sound in any GT game, if there were, the "vacuum issue" would be dramatically improved. Intake is not just "sucking", it has its own pressure wave signature for much the same reasons the exhaust has: sudden pressure equalisation when the valves open.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
@JohnScoonsBeard, Such a small change can make huge difference how cars will sound.
- 448
- Wittgenstein
Excuse a bit of light heartedness but:
It seems to me that Polyphony Digital have been a lot smarter than we may have thought. The Australian GP seems to have showed that instead of making the game sound more like the cars they've spent a lot of time and effort making the cars sound more like the game!
It seems to me that Polyphony Digital have been a lot smarter than we may have thought. The Australian GP seems to have showed that instead of making the game sound more like the cars they've spent a lot of time and effort making the cars sound more like the game!
- 353
- Serbia
- 974
- GOTHEBURG
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...k-of-sound-is-breach-of-contract-9196532.html
Wonder what he would do if he had GT sounds, i think heartattack.
This text will summerize what i feel
about GT, so change F1 to GT and we are done.
Wonder what he would do if he had GT sounds, i think heartattack.
This text will summerize what i feel
about GT, so change F1 to GT and we are done.
- 260
- Vienna, Austria
- mr tomcat 66
I had to laught, when I did read this statement from Sebastian Vettel about the sound of the 2014 F1 cars:
World champion Sebastian Vettel said driving in Melbourne felt more like being at the wheel of “a vacuum cleaner than a racing car”. Here http://grandprix247.com/2014/03/17/formula-1s-vacuum-cleaner-engine-sound-a-big-disappointment/ Sound very familiar for all GT-players.
Or listen for yourself:
World champion Sebastian Vettel said driving in Melbourne felt more like being at the wheel of “a vacuum cleaner than a racing car”. Here http://grandprix247.com/2014/03/17/formula-1s-vacuum-cleaner-engine-sound-a-big-disappointment/ Sound very familiar for all GT-players.
Or listen for yourself:
- 4,022
- Cincinnati, OH
I must be the only person that doesn't completely hate the new F1 sounds. I'll admit I don't really care for the pitch but, the tone isn't too bad. And they sound incredible when downshifting. If they could use a V10 or V12 and still get that awesome Fighter Jet sounding downshift, I'd be the most happy.
Interesting point that maybe PD was forcing the world to change the sound of their cars
Interesting point that maybe PD was forcing the world to change the sound of their cars
- 448
- Wittgenstein
I don't want to hijack the thread (although in many repects I think there's a lot of the same points being repeated over and over but that's another story) but for me the "new" F1 could go either way. The sounds grew on me a little, but I'm still not convinced. The racing was OK but overtaking looked difficult and close running didn't seem to bring many rewards. On the other hand it wasn't entirely dull so I think I'll have to wait a few more races to draw any conclusions.
Coming back to the sounds, the turbo woosh sounded good to me and the down shifting (as the previous poster mentions) was good too.
Coming back to the sounds, the turbo woosh sounded good to me and the down shifting (as the previous poster mentions) was good too.
- 2,884
- Near Reading, Uk
- JohnSchoonsBeard
- 1,239
- Italy
What he said about memory and hardware could apply to GT6. Perhaps what PD is trying to do can't be done on PS3.
"but the RB sounds!" - no sorry they sound better but perhaps GT6 low level is skewing our perception here. There is still a lot missing there in my opinion.
"but the RB sounds!" - no sorry they sound better but perhaps GT6 low level is skewing our perception here. There is still a lot missing there in my opinion.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Ok, but what about cars that don't sound anything like there real life counterparts, ie the Lamborghini Diablo GT2, unlike cars like the 458 italia,LFA etc which actually sound rather good.
- 1,239
- Italy
I understand what you're saying - some cars DO sound like in real life - with PD vacuum twist added to it but nonetheless there is some similarity. (
)I'm not justifying re-using samples on different cars. I'm saying that even if they planned to patch the sound it may not be as good as it could be due to PS3 limitations.
Obviously if we get to the RB level on all cars it already will be an amazing upgrade.
I'm not sure if they will bother will this partial project though - depends if GT6 was built with future sample replacement in mind. ("those are only placeholders"
) If it was then it's a matter of downloading a hefty patch. If it wasn't then we may see the new sound in it's full glory instead - on PS4. Just speculations
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
I'm saying, why does the stock Lamborghini Diablo GT2, have a V8 sound sample.I understand what you're saying - some cars DO sound like in real life - with PD vacuum twist added to it but nonetheless there is some similarity. (
I'm not justifying re-using samples on different cars. I'm saying that even if they planned to patch the sound it may not be as good as it could be due to PS3 limitations.
Obviously if we get to the RB level on all cars it already will be an amazing upgrade.
I'm not sure if they will bother will this partial project though - depends if GT6 was built with future sample replacement in mind. ("those are only placeholders"
Just speculations
- 8,704
There is a lot missing, and I've discussed the possibilities in the past, so I don't want to bore anyone. Put succinctly: my opinion is that the RB cars are placeholders in the new regime, in that they only use the exhaust component of that new method, likely because the mixing / localisation engine currently in use is designed for the old sampling regime, which has historically only really had exhaust sound (plus "engine" sound - the mechanical whirring - but that seems absent with the RB cars, too).
What's really interesting with the RB cars is that they all use the same exhaust, including the Junior.
Because they were selected from a pre-existing sample database rather than authored specifically for that car.
That would be because the sounds authored specifically for that car rely on the new method, which isn't implemented yet (strictly speaking, it's not been "deployed" yet) on PS3.
- 428
- Dulles VA
- dyingfetusmike
Laughing, yeah maybe but I think it's more like the scene in Amadeus where Salieri was talking about the Emperor, "...actually, the man had no ear at all..."
The video that truly made me want to cry was the NFS Most Wanted one - particularly the Zonda R. Un-🤬-believable, the difference between what can be achieved with the audio and what PD thinks is acceptable.
- 534
- Jakarta
- Chiyo_Cute
Why don't they just use flat professional monitor speaker instead of Sony's headphone?
If it sounds perfect on a flat monitor speaker then it will sound great on any good audio systems..
- 8,704
Cross-marketing. Also, people are stupid and will blame the game for being duped into buying awful hardware or for not knowing what dynamic range means etc (in the general case). All developers can hope for is to tickle the emotional centres of the average consumer using their below-average hardware and hope their imagination takes over. (Why is it the developers' responsibility to accommodate broken speakers in a surround array? Try to imagine an analogue for graphics.)
Nice to see ten-year-old sound techniques being lauded as next-gen, too. But I suppose there's only so much you can do with a limited budget.
- 49
- Florida
How bad are GT sounds... Not that bad (in my opinion) especially if you know what your listening for. All the bashing of their sound seems bandwagon like. If one person says it, everyone jumps on and it's the word you know. That's not the case at all. PD has many of flaws just like a lot of other games, at the same time they do a lot well just like other games. In the sound department, I don't think they are doing bad at all. All GT premium cars have been recorded in a different way then majority of the standard cars. We can't hold that against them when we never complained about those car sounds in GT through GT4. It's a slap in the back of the head for them as a company to ditch those cars and start from scratch but as for their premium cars, they are as close as they can get with the hardware. I'm no developer just a car guy, but to me it seems it would be difficult to replicate every car sound to the tee with limited memory for it. So you get some cars that sound similar in the rev range that shouldn't.
The pops, crackles and blips (with a lot of character) are not reproduced in many games at all and if they are, they're generic. I don't believe any car game has been able to replicate the character of a exhaust and engine with personality (any AMG or Ferrari just to name a few ).
Just to show how good GT sounds can be with their premium cars, I did a video just recording with my Galaxy S3. Worse way to record sound right? Played replays from GT6 and recorded them. I just grabbed random stock cars from my garage and did the video in the third person view because that's how we hear exhaust ( from the outside of the car). Inside of the car sounds are a different story. If anyone's ran their car on the track or just been to a 1/4 mile track, you know the sound of wind takes over and the last thing you hear sometimes is your exhaust. I've had custom exhaust on every car I've owned and tracked two out of the four (05 infiniti fx45, 07 Audi A6 4.2, 08 Mercedes C350 and 09 BMW 335i). Even driving on the highway and going above 90mph, the sound of wind takes over. To add to that I never really knew what the exhaust to any of my cars sounded like, until I had people sit in my car and stomp on the pedal while I stood behind the car. Night and day difference on how loud my custom exhaust actually were. I had 4 resonators on my A6 and two mufflers which are resonators pretty much. They muffle the sound. That's just and example on how quite it was in the inside of my car besides the build quality, noise cancelation system in the car and thick glass. I couldn't hear anything inside the car. Audi didn't make that car to be loud. Had the exhaust done which left two stock resonators off and the car still didn't sound diff on the inside, but sounded worlds diff on the outside. GT6 has an Audi RS6 in the game. A screaming V10, at least from the outside. Seeing the build quality of the A6 4.2 I owned, I can only imagine the build quality of the RS6 and I see it mimicking the lack of sound heard in the cabin. GT has plenty of cars that are loud on the outside but have muffled sounds cockpit view.
All in all, I believe GT has ok sounds. They seem to try their best to replicate true sounds and not cheat and fill-in generic sounds (sexiness) like a lot of other developers do with their games. Here's the link to the cell phone recording.
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- 49
- Florida
I messed that reply up...moderators can delete if possible...
You obviously didn't read what I typed or listen to the video I posted to give an ignorant comment like that. I could see if i said that GT sounds so realistic...like you just said I did, but I actually said their sounds aren't that bad. The cars I randomly picked sound pretty close to their real life counterparts. Don't waist your time commenting if your not even taking the subject I talked about in my comment directly into account. To add to that I said all in all GT has ok sounds... Your comment came off as if I said Gt has the best most accurate sounds... Think before you comment or at least read the persons comment and watch their content attached before you do.
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