Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

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Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.
 
Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.

I use headphones (good ones at that) and the sounds are not as bad as people let them sound like. Especially if you turn the volume high(er). By adjusting frequencies you can make them even better (like add bass, remove treble).

But the sounds do still need an improvement.
 
What type of headsets do you have @Chrix12? I also have headset that I use when I want to take late night romp so not to wake the whole house during a race or just goofing off, and I've noticed the sound barely changes. I agree that the sound can be improved in some areas, mainly while in the cockpit of some cars. Adjusting the bass range, mid range and treble range make one heck of a difference, and I didn't know how much until I got the new system and the LOVELY optical cable, that the PS3 was meant to use for sound or a great pair of headset that you, @Tenacious D and I have. I spent 200 on my Razor headset and they were worth every penny.

I know I'll be upgrading to a better pair once I get my flight rig done for Star Citizen.
 
Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.
No, my sound system is incorrect. :(
 
the problems with GT sound are much deeper-rooted than whatever your output is. Sure better speakers better represent what the game audio is producing, but "inferior gear" cannot explain away the cheesy insta-shifts, overly-stretched loop "vacuum cleaner" sound, and mismatched loop selection for cars.
 
I'm curious to know what you both think of this:

In which an LFS replay is used to drive a custom synth, the game is muted.


Forgive me if I struggle to describe well what I'm hearing, there's probably terms for what I want to say but I may not know them.

My first thought was that it sounded pretty good. My second thought was that it sounded pretty good, but...something.

It's almost an uncanny valley sort of feeling. There's something not quite right, but it's hard to pin down.

It does sound very, very smooth. Unnaturally smooth, almost. It lacks some of the "sharpness" that I might expect. An engine is explosions at heart, and a race engine especially so. It sounds a little muffled, not in that it's unclear, simply that the sound is, I don't know, blurred slightly? Hard to describe.

I notice it particularly on the blips downshifting. It has a kind of "wow, wow" sort of thing going on, as if there's a big butterfly valve or something in the system that's having trouble opening and closing fast enough to get out of the way when you stab the throttle. It sounds a lot like the sound of the intake on and off throttle is changing mostly by how loud the sound is, and the volume just isn't changing fast enough to keep up with the blips.

I could be wrong, but that's sort of what it sounds like. Hard to tell without your own foot on the throttle, maybe they were just slow and steady blips.


Running that through the spectrogram, I can see clearly the lines of sinewaves that are being added to make the sound.



All games seem to have these sorts of traces to some extent or another, I guess as a side effect of modifying a single sample or building from certain frequencies, but that's a particularly visually obvious example.
 
Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.

Play Assetto Corsa on your sound system, you will hate gt sounds again.
 
Play Assetto Corsa on your sound system, you will hate gt sounds again.
Hey, I know the mantra. "Every racing game in existence has better sounds than Gran Turismo does." But I have to tell you guys that aside from some truly cheezy samples, the rest of the sounds, as Matt Boyd and others have said, are pretty darn decent. Plus, not everyone races better with better car sounds. And if you do, I think that's pretty darn interesting. ;)

Maybe it's my Rotel stereo and Unisound speakers, but I'm okay with most of the sounds in GT5 and 6.
 
Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.

Quality of the sound can´t be compared to the samples (the actual sounds/noise).

When the PS3 came out I also bought a Sony Bravia Engine Home Cinema (is not the best compared to professional sound systems but it is quite good) for it because I wanted to use it via optical fiber. So I always use it via optical....still don´t like the engine sounds.
At night I use my Technics headphones and still the sounds won´t change...I can listen to the quality, more details, groove, the bass...etc.

Bringing that argument about "having or not a very good sound system" is far from being a fact or being correct. It is true that the sound coming directly from the TV speakers is different and it misses a lot of quality but the samples won´t change so the sounds are going to be the same overall. Same "noise" in other words.


Now, try other games, using other samples or as I say "the right car engine samples" and you´ll notice how good they are while using TV speakers or even a mono sound configuration.

Go try R3E on PC, push the gas a couple of times with any car...then come at me and say how lovely GT6 sounds are. ;)
 
I just can say it over and over again, a good sound system will just enhance the bad but doesnt change the samples or soundmixing.

It's the same as I have a SD TV watching a SD Movie and then watch the SD Movie on a HD TV. The imagine will seemingly look better since the HD TV doesnt flicker and has better contrast levels etc but the bad resolution doesnt change at all. Its just enhanced.


Everybody can like or dislike what each individual wants. If some people are statisfied which the sound delivered by PD it's fine. But for my sound standarts it's not enough to say that they sound decent or good.
 
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That "adjust your sound system" for better engine sounds is like the argument I hear about how I need to adjust my TV brightness settings so the cockpit view isn't so dark.. My TV brightness settings are great on all of my other games and bluray discs but I need to re-adjust everything just for GT6? I hope PD buffs the sound up for the cars. Some of these cars are beasts and they really should sound like they want to kill me! I mean I can go to YouTube and play sounds of super cars on my crummy PC setup and they sound mouth watering! I'd give anything to get something close to that in a GT game. Heck some of the NFS games have great engine sounds, and I didn't need to adjust the sound on my stereo setup!
 
Heck some of the NFS games have great engine sounds, and I didn't need to adjust the sound on my stereo setup!

Yup play NFS Most Wanted even on the regular TV speakers and it sounds decent, hook it up on a good sound system and get blown away :)
Suprisingly to some people this mathematics doesnt apply. GT6 sounds suddenly awesome through a good sound system while played on a normal set up bad.

No offense to anybody but not reasonable at all to me sorry.
 
Your clip is decidedly sinewave-synthed. It's missing all of the noise, fuzz, schmultz, whatever you want to call it that a real car (or real recording if you'd rather) produces. The forza guys use an "intake" "exhaust" and "engine" emitter type, and adding an "engine" sound would help a lot with your video there. One of the things i've heard others using additive synth do is to take your resulting synth output, subtract it back out from the original recording, and use the resulting "noise floor" so-to-speak to shape a white noise generator to get the noise back into the recording. As it stands the exhaust (not +) is the most obviously sinewave-based to me, as it's extremely clinical and missing all of the >10khz content.
No it's not.

EDIT: huh, this was meant to be part of the reply below, didn't mean to be so curt. But, yeah, I've tried additive (reverse engineered from Fourier analysis of real sounds) and it didn't work so well. I found a vocoder to be useful at times :dopey:

"My" method generates the sound forwards, from first principles, as a single pressure trace; it is not a spectral method. That said, I could reverse-engineer additive coeffecients from parts of the "simulation" and it'd sound the same, for those parts. It wouldn't affect what came after, either, plus I could lump my pre-filter step into the additive step, too (which I've done for old-school PWM sounds already), making it effectively modal - control is much harder though (at least I can't figure it out).
 
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Yup play NFS Most Wanted even on the regular TV speakers and it sounds decent, hook it up on a good sound system and get blown away :)
Suprisingly to some people this mathematics doesnt apply. GT6 sounds suddenly awesome through a good sound system while played on a normal set up bad.

No offense to anybody but not reasonable at all to me sorry.
You can get "blown away" by some cars in GT6 too.

If you hook up to a good sound system with a powerful subwoofer, and drive a stock Corvette Z06 C6 it sounds pretty amazing. There are many other cars with equally authentic and impressive sound that will "rock" on the same system.

But like you say, it doesn't "fix" the many poor samples.
Example: A BMW S70/2 or S54 will never sound authentic in GT because of the lack of induction noise, and the many V12 engines with 10 or 8 cylinder impulse signatures won't magically get fixed.
 
Forgive me if I struggle to describe well what I'm hearing, there's probably terms for what I want to say but I may not know them.

My first thought was that it sounded pretty good. My second thought was that it sounded pretty good, but...something.

It's almost an uncanny valley sort of feeling. There's something not quite right, but it's hard to pin down.

It does sound very, very smooth. Unnaturally smooth, almost. It lacks some of the "sharpness" that I might expect. An engine is explosions at heart, and a race engine especially so. It sounds a little muffled, not in that it's unclear, simply that the sound is, I don't know, blurred slightly? Hard to describe.

I notice it particularly on the blips downshifting. It has a kind of "wow, wow" sort of thing going on, as if there's a big butterfly valve or something in the system that's having trouble opening and closing fast enough to get out of the way when you stab the throttle. It sounds a lot like the sound of the intake on and off throttle is changing mostly by how loud the sound is, and the volume just isn't changing fast enough to keep up with the blips.

I could be wrong, but that's sort of what it sounds like. Hard to tell without your own foot on the throttle, maybe they were just slow and steady blips.


Running that through the spectrogram, I can see clearly the lines of sinewaves that are being added to make the sound.



All games seem to have these sorts of traces to some extent or another, I guess as a side effect of modifying a single sample or building from certain frequencies, but that's a particularly visually obvious example.

Those sine waves are the harmonics and are there because engine sounds are harmonic in nature. It is not how the sounds are generated, they are the natural result of a proper physical simulation of the acoustic / fluid dynamic / thermodynamic process performed "offline", before being manipulated in real time. That simulation is full of unpleasant artefacts, including some that I introduce in processing before re-synthesis (it can mainly be heard as a kind of square-wave vibe on the intake channel).

What is missing in mine, that is present in real life, is broadband, shaped noise (think formants again). That's mostly because I don't model the sound of flow turbulence, and because these are isolated intake and exhaust channels only (deliberately, given the point of the video). It's also band-limited somewhat, which is why it sounds "dull" (the lack of noise contributes there, too) - also, there is no "filter" on the intake, it's all "source" (well, and "pre-filter"); the exhaust is missing a few key things such as acoustic resonance that were turned off / broken in that version. The filters in general don't generate much high frequency energy at present, because I'm still working out some of the non-linearities.

I can only get control data from LFS at 60 Hz, which is at least ten times slower than I'd want - that'd sharpen up the throttle blips naturally. It's generated from a replay, so it's missing some of the control data I use when actually driving, but the effect is subtle. Some physically-based filtering on the intake channel according to the throttle position would help, too, by accentuating the transition more. I'll get to that one day! :D

The exhaust-only sound was deliberately designed to be a pure harmonic overtone series to illustrate the point I wanted to make with that video (compare the on- and off-throttle sounds, though). The other presets have much more harmonic variation using the exact same base synthesis, and that should be clear on the spectrogram. I tweaked nothing but the filter parameters, using the same simulated basis in every case: a big-valve 7-port Austin A-series, for reference.

All of this would be easy to improve for someone who actually knows what they are doing.


I've attached some spectrograms myself, the filenames should speak for themselves. LFSSYNTH is mine; left-to-right: intake, exhaust, intake and exhaust, exhaust+. LFSVANILLA is the standard LFS synth engine (notice the apparent lack of harmonics, due to the noisy source), and the CSL clip is a real recording of the intake (we shouldn't neglect the implosions in favour of explosions). What's curious about comparing GT5's X2011 to GT6's is the wall of noise; GT5's looks more like the recording (because it uses recordings), whereas the GT6 version has an extension of high frequency noise all the way up to the band-limit. You can hear this in the game as the unpleasant tearing sound in the exhausts of the X-cars, and I attribute that to the rasp generator (possibly poor damping). I think the visible "brick-wall" in the frequency range is mostly due to the audio compression on YouTube, where I took all the samples from. Notice also the hideous noise in the top end ("hiss") inherent in a typical laptop's audio bus...
 

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Has anyone tried using the the optical sound, or a correct sound system? Yes the cars sounds coming from a TV or a basic system may sound off. And if you have a high-end sound system and you're not using the optical sound cable then I don't know what to tell you. I took my friends Ivan advice, upgrading my sound to a unit that had a optical sound port. All I can say is "FUNKING WOW!!!" You get what you get out of your gear.
Used digital optical from the beginning it sounds better obviously than tv speakers. But better is not "good" or "accurate" or "realistic".
 
TV or system related?

I was joking. You get out from any soundsystem no better than what goes in and for most cars in GT5 and GT6, they're simply not good samples. The whole "You need to buy a great sound system to hear GT sounds properly" is an old, poor excuse. A flat four sound is not suddenly going to sound like a V6 with a better system. Even if it were true, that's still not a ringing endorsement of PD's skills when other developers can make their sounds great on any system.

Hey, I know the mantra. "Every racing game in existence has better sounds than Gran Turismo does."

Find me a current generation game that sounds worse.

But I have to tell you guys that aside from some truly cheezy samples, the rest of the sounds, as Matt Boyd and others have said, are pretty darn decent. Plus, not everyone races better with better car sounds. And if you do, I think that's pretty darn interesting. ;)

Are you kidding me? Seriously? Yeah, the reason everyone wants better sounds is because it makes us race better. :rolleyes:
 
I fear with the number of posts defending GT6's audio and trying to shift blame to what system you use to play the game (despite every other game sounding fine regardless - tv speakers, nice sound system, whatever), that same attitude and willful disregard for making authentic engine sound samples probably prevails at PD too. Hence yet another GT game where the embarrassing sound quality remains - GT7 will be afflicted as well. They hear us complaining but don't really UNDERSTAND.
 
@Griffith500, just noticed same effect as on those "white noise" stereo records what sounds much like noise when hearing one channel only, and when hearing both it starts to sound totally different.
Same kind of effect is noticeable on GT6, engine sound is almost nothing when lifting other earphone up, that lifted sounds just "Buzz" and starts to sound normal after both earphones are normally.
 
@Griffith500, just noticed same effect as on those "white noise" stereo records what sounds much like noise when hearing one channel only, and when hearing both it starts to sound totally different.
Same kind of effect is noticeable on GT6, engine sound is almost nothing when lifting other earphone up, that lifted sounds just "Buzz" and starts to sound normal after both earphones are normally.

I'm not familiar with the noise records you describe, unless it literally is two independent noise sources, one per ear. That is kind of like binaural beats, the mechanism for which I can't quite remember, but it's a perceptual thing. You have two ears for a reason, and your brain uses that to get extra info from your surroundings, basically.

As for the game, the stereo mix does a pretty good job of localising sounds in replays, so losing one can would destroy that effect. Perhaps that's what's happening, you're losing the sense of "depth" in the soundscape, such that it exists.

I find that I can't even listen to music through only one earphone, I need both - I think the gross disparity between what each ear is hearing disrupts my listening. Also, if I do that for a while, once I stop, it feels like I have "flash blindness" in one ear. I get that with auditioning engine sounds, though, too, even with two cans - when I rest my ears (and skull), there's this background, crunchy, digital-sounding hiss to everything :dopey:
That's different from tinnitus, which I also have (usually just a mild "background" level).
 
Sound makes you a better racer? That's a first @Samus. In all my years that the first time I've ever heard that LOL. I've raced everything from a buggy to a sport bike and your statement is the first I've ever heard.
 
Sound makes you a better racer? That's a first @Samus. In all my years that the first time I've ever heard that LOL. I've raced everything from a buggy to a sport bike and your statement is the first I've ever heard.
Read it again. Tenacious D was the one suggesting that is why people want better sounds, not me.
 
If GT just improved the gear shift sounds, add some kind of wobble and proper timing, then improve the physicality of the gearbox whine that it would improve GT sounds to be acceptable.

The gear shift sound in GT ATM are just dead and artificial with their instantaneity.
 
I fear with the number of posts defending GT6's audio and trying to shift blame to what system you use to play the game (despite every other game sounding fine regardless - tv speakers, nice sound system, whatever), that same attitude and willful disregard for making authentic engine sound samples probably prevails at PD too. Hence yet another GT game where the embarrassing sound quality remains - GT7 will be afflicted as well. They hear us complaining but don't really UNDERSTAND.
Don't worry, Kaz talk about sound simulation...He knows...
 
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