^ can't you see that the samples are the problem? all of this adjustment is after the fact and only serves to distort the signal in a manner that feels more pleasant to your ears (Bose, Beats Audio). the cars should sound good whether they're reproduced in headphones or a 5.1 system.
Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!
- Thread starter steamcat
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- 5,897
- Canada
- 40,880
Mute the game audio and run an ALMS race through it instead.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
Guys...stop tiping stuff about how to set up your soundsystems (equalizer stuff and so on). We all know, you can`t change the original soundsamples with that stuff, so stop it allready.
It is like, the next GT game should have its own manual, that includes the "best" setups for all the different soundsystems, receivers and speakers out in the world. That is not gonna happen!
A race game with well recorded and processed samples would sound good out of the crapiest speakers of a 10 year old TV, because, like said 1000 times before: It is the samples that matter!
It is like, the next GT game should have its own manual, that includes the "best" setups for all the different soundsystems, receivers and speakers out in the world. That is not gonna happen!
A race game with well recorded and processed samples would sound good out of the crapiest speakers of a 10 year old TV, because, like said 1000 times before: It is the samples that matter!
- 1,535
- Tarragona,Spain
- FOXIOL
And that is correct my friend. 👍
I own 2 great 5.1 (one Logitech for my PC and a Sony Bravia Engine for my PS3 via optical fiver) and in other games with good/realistic samples i have no problems at all. I can put my volume at low but still the sound is great.
You can play with the bass, with low or high frequencies with GT5 sounds to try to make it sounds better but you can´t as much as you like...imagine putting your volume at max just to hear something that is missing...deaf in 2 minutes...
(and i tried, lmao)The QUALITY in GT5 is great but samples are wrong with missing sounds as intake and gearbox for example.
And i´m tired of saying that at low revs (up to 4000 RPM)the cars sounds realistic but after that moment the engine has an estrange sound (the famous "vacuum cleaner") added. To me it is the digital sound added after the real sample that doesn´t match the with the real sample at all.
(i can see the experts coming to destroy my comment...)
The thing is that other companies knows how to do it. End.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
A good AVR and speakers set do help a lot on most music, games and movies( giving the best possible sound reproduction out of any source).
I have played PC, PS2 and PS3 games with old PC Altec Lansing speaker set, Simbadda set, Sony BD + HT set, they were okay but then I bought Mordaun Short Carnival 5.1 set and Harman Kardon AVR. It does make huge difference in clarity, high and low frequencies definition that are missing with cheaper or lower quality speakers and amp.
I played MGS 4 with the my current set, it sounds like in a movie theatre, compare that with ordinary speaker set .... it does make a difference, any bit of help is worth it. The immersion alone when I put the volume up, it didn't even make my ear deaf or aggravated, the sound felt energetic, full and I can feel like being there. The loud noise is loud enough to be felt alive and clear with no frequency loss.
It is true GT5 weakness is clearly heard even more with my sound system, it brings out any little flaw in a sound recording, I can pick the slightest flaw of recording in most CDs that I listened. What I did is simply to try reducing the lack of punch in the sound, to make it more full. It helps a little, but any little bit of help is needed for GT5.
I have played PC, PS2 and PS3 games with old PC Altec Lansing speaker set, Simbadda set, Sony BD + HT set, they were okay but then I bought Mordaun Short Carnival 5.1 set and Harman Kardon AVR. It does make huge difference in clarity, high and low frequencies definition that are missing with cheaper or lower quality speakers and amp.
I played MGS 4 with the my current set, it sounds like in a movie theatre, compare that with ordinary speaker set .... it does make a difference, any bit of help is worth it. The immersion alone when I put the volume up, it didn't even make my ear deaf or aggravated, the sound felt energetic, full and I can feel like being there. The loud noise is loud enough to be felt alive and clear with no frequency loss.
It is true GT5 weakness is clearly heard even more with my sound system, it brings out any little flaw in a sound recording, I can pick the slightest flaw of recording in most CDs that I listened. What I did is simply to try reducing the lack of punch in the sound, to make it more full. It helps a little, but any little bit of help is needed for GT5.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
Sure, a quality audiosystem can make good things "awesome". But if the "good thing" is crappy in the first place, the audiosystem won`t help
- 302
- West Virginia
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Sure, a quality audiosystem can make good things "awesome". But if the "good thing" is crappy in the first place, the audiosystem won`t help
Yeah, I understand the "crappy" sound source of GT5, but in my experience, comparing to listen from TV speakers or my old PC set, the AVR does a good job to at least make the sound fuller and more alive ( less dull ), besides it has a good benefit that even with loud volume, it's still enjoyable ( unlike my old PC speakers )
mikecustom
(Banned)
- 210
- ppmike921
CrowoodSure, a quality audiosystem can make good things "awesome". But if the "good thing" is crappy in the first place, the audiosystem won`t help
Exactly i only have my tv speakers but I've played the game on really nice 5.1 sound systems and the sounds are the same, the only difference is that they sound louder and more inmersive, however I can still get the same "loud" and lively effect from my TV with some minor tweaks to the frequencies, so it sounds the same but less dull, at least I don't fall asleep in the middle of a race anymore, that's an improvement already.
- 8,723
The key to fatigueless high-volume listening is a wide dynamic range, which is the exact opposite to what you need for listening to sounds coming from cheap speakers at a more reasonable volume in a noisy environment. What you need in that latter case is a signal compressed to the ceiling so that all details come out at the same volume and, hence, audibility. Do the same with the volume cranked up on a quality system and the relentless din will destroy your brain in minutes - the same is true of the mastering on modern pop music (designed for poor-quality hardware).
So it's good that GT5 has the dynamic range settings, but the implementation needs tweaking a bit. If they can improve the samples, I'd suspect that a lot of the complaints would disappear, but there's a lot still to do after that, for racing games in general, in my opinion.
The "vacuum cleaner" zone is, as I've said many times now, because of a few distinct things:
The biggest improvement to be had, in my opinion, is to augment / replace the existing whiny engine sounds with something that contains induction noise - the stock exhaust sounds are generally fine. The next step would be to better distribute the modified samples so that certain cars sound like they have the right kind of engine in them. I'd wager those two things alone would drastically improve the game's sounds to the point of acceptability.
Finally, yes, other companies "know how" to do it, largely because they haven't changed their sampling framework for at least 15 (maybe 20) years. At least PD are trying to innovate. Also, name another game that attempts to give 4 distinct sounds per car for as many cars as GT does. The closest was FM2, with 350 cars, but they also had to recycle a lot of their modified sounds. With FM3, T10 abandoned that idea altogether and the sound only changes with aspiration changes or engine swaps. There's little point in giving up on that front, since with a little bit of work, PD could offer customisable sounds per car that would add a lot to the game.
So, I hope you can realise that when you're comparing GT to other games, it's not a case of apples to apples, by any stretch. Yes, there are simple things they could do to improve the sounds, but, as I keep saying (and at the risk of sounding sanctimonious), do try to educate yourselves on the bigger picture.
So it's good that GT5 has the dynamic range settings, but the implementation needs tweaking a bit. If they can improve the samples, I'd suspect that a lot of the complaints would disappear, but there's a lot still to do after that, for racing games in general, in my opinion.
The "vacuum cleaner" zone is, as I've said many times now, because of a few distinct things:
- The "engine" sounds consist mostly of ancillary noise, which is mostly whiny, with a bit of tappety sound if you're lucky. On some, usually older, cars, the radiator fan is often directly coupled to the crank, so it makes a racket - the carburettor is often still dominant from the interior, though. Proper block noise and intake noise would help here.
- The rev range is split into too few sample points, so the samples are stretched further than in other games. See my last post about the reason pitch shifting sounds so unnatural, or "digital" since you seem so intent on abusing the term - again, watch this.
- The samples themselves are generally short, which for reasons I don't quite understand, causes there to be a thinness to the sound (probably compounded with the pitch shifting issue). This means that there is less apparent expression in the sample, since you're looping the same material over and over - like painting over an area with too little paint.
The biggest improvement to be had, in my opinion, is to augment / replace the existing whiny engine sounds with something that contains induction noise - the stock exhaust sounds are generally fine. The next step would be to better distribute the modified samples so that certain cars sound like they have the right kind of engine in them. I'd wager those two things alone would drastically improve the game's sounds to the point of acceptability.
Finally, yes, other companies "know how" to do it, largely because they haven't changed their sampling framework for at least 15 (maybe 20) years. At least PD are trying to innovate. Also, name another game that attempts to give 4 distinct sounds per car for as many cars as GT does. The closest was FM2, with 350 cars, but they also had to recycle a lot of their modified sounds. With FM3, T10 abandoned that idea altogether and the sound only changes with aspiration changes or engine swaps. There's little point in giving up on that front, since with a little bit of work, PD could offer customisable sounds per car that would add a lot to the game.
So, I hope you can realise that when you're comparing GT to other games, it's not a case of apples to apples, by any stretch. Yes, there are simple things they could do to improve the sounds, but, as I keep saying (and at the risk of sounding sanctimonious), do try to educate yourselves on the bigger picture.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
I really like your posts griffith !
If you guys did not know this channel yet, here is PURE real life race car sounds:
http://www.youtube.com/user/19Bozzy92
Btw, this is how a italia with race exhaust sounds
Now compare to GT ...
! If you guys did not know this channel yet, here is PURE real life race car sounds:
http://www.youtube.com/user/19Bozzy92
Btw, this is how a italia with race exhaust sounds
Now compare to GT ...
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- 10,957
- Canada
I'm not even kidding with the sounds GT has anymore. PD ESPECIALLY Kaz who heres those engine sounds on the track, better get it right and PURE this time for GT6. They seriously need to get with the times and step their game's sounds up.
- 616
EXACTLY, to all the good and all the bad of the sound in GT5.
Crowood, you have a strong point with that video.
The replays should sound that way, if the replays were made that way too, but that's not the case for GT or any other sim.
It would be cool if we could have a free viewer during replays, so the sound would be different depending on our point of view. In fact, I always thought that we were going to receive that kind of freedom during replays, like seating in the tribune or something.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
I hope for this kind of replay view in every race game i play....none got it yet. A "spectator/visitor" cam can create so much atmosphere, like you are really sitting there and watch a race LIVE 👍 (it is not hard to make this work, put a fixed camera on the tribune or popular track parts)
"Sorry for offtopic"
- 1,535
- Tarragona,Spain
- FOXIOL
I know the bigger picture and some others here know too.
Low RAM (hardware), too many cars to put the proper sounds in it and then add the variants of exhausts to each one...
I mean we are not stupid and we are not crying like little boys, PD is the main problem here along with the PS3 hardware but mostly because their decisions.
They want to do everything in one game, put one thousand cars, tons of features and then they keep adding more and more stuff...but they almost never finish anything...and what´s the problem with that? Easy they released a not yet finished product and then you have people here debating about what it is wrong and what not.
You say that PD is ahead against the competition talking about sounds but they are using the same samples since almost the first game. Meanwhile the others seems to improve every year and cars at least sounds realistic despite the technical details.
PD SHOULD do the same as the others to PLEASE COSTUMERS and STOP releasing things made at 60%.
And it´s not that hard to add a different sounds to the exhausts if you have the real sample. But the problem is the amount of cars more than RAM...if the real problem is RAM itself the QUALITY of the overall sounds will not be that good as it is now.
And man again...you keep replaying to me but i am not "against" you or think different...i´m just objective here and i think we don´t need the so "technical talk" to make look the other as he is wrong...facts are there and people is claiming what we want and what the game needs. For the better!
I think PD with that quality just needs to put or not to stretch those real samples (that i think they have) and "problem" solved.
But again here comes the RAM problem...but we still don´t know if Gran Turismo 6 is going to be a PS3 game or PS4...we are talking about the past game BUT just for not have the same thing again in the future one.
They can´t change GT5 sounds and we are not going to ask for that...it is for the future...RAM or no RAM related GT6 should sound as good as the look of the cars...realistic.
Please man stop with the technical comments...i agree with you in all...reply someone else or those that don´t know what they are talking about. Not me...haha. All good don´t take me wrong. 👍
- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
I'm sure GT6 will be out for the PS4 (the contrary would be delusional: GT5 showed the limits of the PS3 power), so hopefully, PD will have sufficient horsepower from the PS4 to make it right this time (no flickering, AA, HD shadow and of course much better sound richness).
- 5,897
- Canada
- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
if you want a RICH multi-layered HD sound environment, yes, you will need (much) more power, not just more HD space... The game will have to compute in real time any variation and differences among much more complex and numerous samples. Sounds Engineers today knows that in a current generation racing game, there is really 3 main separate sound: inside the car, outside the car (Chase or around) and TRACKSIDE sounds which is a completely different from the external because generally you are at a fixed point hearing the sound compared to be in or in the immediate proximity of the car... as you can hear form reality, the experience is really completely different.
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- RoadRocket77
here's a perfect example of the crappy sound quality of GT5. GT5 aventador: sounds like a blender at full speed... Real Aventador: sounds like a True V12 monster that wants to kill you. the gearing sounds are wayyy too smooth in GT5... rough up the gearing sound a bit to replicate what the real thing does as you shift.
- 508
- Germany
- Crowood
Yeah, the shifting sounds are one thing that could easy be tweeked too. The shifting in GT is like "click, click, click" when it should be "BANG, BANG, BANG" 
Most of the cars in GT "pet" the gears in, when in rl they clearly get "smashed" in (see Aventador vid above) ^^
The only example, for a soundbalanced car in GT5 is the Super GT Premium GTRs. They got some of that "nasty" touch, most other cars are missing, also while shifting. (imo)
Most of the cars in GT "pet" the gears in, when in rl they clearly get "smashed" in (see Aventador vid above) ^^
The only example, for a soundbalanced car in GT5 is the Super GT Premium GTRs. They got some of that "nasty" touch, most other cars are missing, also while shifting. (imo)
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- 8,723
That spitting from the exhaust has nothing to do with "smashing" anything, it's the vacuum in the intake manifold shifting the pressure in the exhaust. When you change the pressure, you induce different flows, so that when you lift off the throttle abruptly, in many cases the exhaust actually ingests (cold, dense) air to try to equalise the pressure. Then when you open the throttle again, the exhaust needs to get back up to operating pressure, which is where the "spit" comes in - the hot, sparse exhaust gases shove the previously ingested slug of cooler air out again. There's probably a bit of secondary combustion ("overrun"), too, which is evident when he lifts off in that video, e.g. at 2:20, which would be nice to start simulating, too.
Of course, you won't hear that effect very well from the cockpit, but it's still a nice flourish. PD already have a flow noise simulator for the exhaust, so it should be easy enough to tweak to account for this effect (and for overrun). They'd need to change the Aventador to use V12 samples, too, and add intake so that the interior sound is accurate (since we're unlikely to get interior recordings).
Of course, you won't hear that effect very well from the cockpit, but it's still a nice flourish. PD already have a flow noise simulator for the exhaust, so it should be easy enough to tweak to account for this effect (and for overrun). They'd need to change the Aventador to use V12 samples, too, and add intake so that the interior sound is accurate (since we're unlikely to get interior recordings).
- 446
- Lusitânia
- Moontallico
It's actually preety easy once you know how to do it.
I create my own mods for rFactor and it takes me fairly one hour per car.
All I do is:
-Look for a good video;
-Take the sound to Audacity;
-Crop a sample;
-Paste it twice, the second one is reversed (and smothed to remove any "clicks" caused by bad looping) to increase it's time so that the sound doesn't get repetitive. (This is what Mazda 787B is lacking);
-And save! (Some samples may need some equalization though.)
This is done for both on and off idle and throttle, and for both inside and outside. Finally fiddle with the file that distributes the samples through the rpms and then it's done.
I'm obviously not a pro though, but I can do it well enough to make the cars of my mods sound better than
GT5's cars. :\
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- 616
Moontallico, would you be kind enough to share some videos of your mods?
- 446
- Lusitânia
- Moontallico
Sure!
I'll try to use fraps and see if my pc holds it. If not, I'll film it with my mobile phone as an alternative.
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