Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[AXEofGOD]

That's a little melodramatic. I didn't say no one wanted tracks, cars or physics, just that the number for sound was higher, indicating that while people want more stuff to drive and more places to drive them, sounds are a really high priority for a lot of people, at least those on GTP.

I agree with that I never noticed it until GTP turned me on to it, but I have music volume cranked and the car's SFX *are just loud enough to hear tire grip n' slip.

But my Q to you is: How many of these people who want better sound from the game are running their T.V. speakers and nothing else? I would hope that a proper sound system helps with the reality of the sound.

 

[Raitziger]

I would hope that a proper sound system helps with the reality of the sound.

That does not do much, problem is within the game.

 

[MXH]

That does not do much, problem is within the game.

Also, you shouldn't need a sound system in the first place.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I agree with that I never noticed it until GTP turned me on to it, but I have music volume cranked and the car's SFX *are just loud enough to hear tire grip n' slip.

But my Q to you is: How many of these people who want better sound from the game are running their T.V. speakers and nothing else? I would hope that a proper sound system helps with the reality of the sound.

Not sure how many people just use tv speakers but I have a full Dolby Digital good quality surround system and it doesn't help, in fact it's probably worse because I can't blame the poor sound on poor speakers.. The samples are just terrible and no sound system is going to fix that.

 

[Griffith500]

Also, you shouldn't need a sound system in the first place.

Yeah, I turn the sound off and use my imagination - much better!

 

[HAL20XX]

A proper component home theater does help with sound separation and staging, but it doesn't fix the sub-par samples. Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[NCRthree]

I make my own sounds...

...with my mouth. Vroooom, Vroooom on accelleration. Turbo Whoooooosh for my Evo and STI. EEEEEK! for hard braking. Still testing for crash noises...that's a tricky one. But yeah, it's like totally immersive.

 

[Crumpet]

The sounds on most of the cars in GT5 are perfectly fine on the premium cars, provided they are using their standard exhaust. If you take the F430 or the Murcielago it sounds rather accurate, it just feels a bit automated.

 

[MXH]

Yeah, I turn the sound off and use my imagination - much better!

At least my imagination doesn't suck.

 

[Wankelhead]

Yeah, I turn the sound off and use my imagination - much better!

I agree with him though. PD should also make the sounds sound good for TV speakers alone. Not everyone has the money or the space for a sound system.

 

[RACECAR]

Don't mind me, just shameless promotion

 

[Foxiol]

Don't mind me, just shameless promotion

Not so much to say. 👍

 

[dice1998]

The sounds on most of the cars in GT5 are perfectly fine on the premium cars, provided they are using their standard exhaust. If you take the F430 or the Murcielago it sounds rather accurate, it just feels a bit automated.

Not all. HSV-010, for example. Or the IS-F Racing Concept. Or anything with a boxer that's premium. Or the F1. or the Zonda R.

 

[Imari]

Don't mind me, just shameless promotion

Not so much to say. 👍

So these are in game sounds and not overdubbed like all of PDs other trailers?

 

[RACECAR]

So these are in game sounds and not overdubbed like all of PDs other trailers?

Not sure why that matters since I see people posting videos that also aren't GT6 in-game sounds.

 

[LeadFootLiam]

So these are in game sounds and not overdubbed like all of PDs other trailers?

I wish

 

[Griffith500]

At least my imagination doesn't suck.

That's the point - nothing is better than the imagination. I saw a V10 R8 and an F430 on the weekend and they were disappointing in terms of sound; but the thing is I've heard them both before. My imagination warped my memory of them.

I agree with him though. PD should also make the sounds sound good for TV speakers alone. Not everyone has the money or the space for a sound system.

They should indeed. It was the phrasing: "sound system", which is what most TVs have built-in. If it makes sound, it's a sound system. The term is discrete sound system. But it's OK, it's just the usual linguistic erosion of the useful qualifier from a common sentence, leaving an overly general term meaning something excessively specific. It's not like I was being serious.

On the flip-side, PD shouldn't just target TVs, either. But that makes the job ten times harder.

 

[Wankelhead]

They should indeed. It was the phrasing: "sound system", which is what most TVs have built-in. If it makes sound, it's a sound system. The term is discrete sound system. But it's OK, it's just the usual linguistic erosion of the useful qualifier from a common sentence, leaving an overly general term meaning something excessively specific. It's not like I was being serious.

Linguistic erosion and in my case, possibly just the lack of a better translation, as that's how we generally call it in my country. Without using technical terms, we generally say "I want a sound system for my TV" or "a home cinema". If we need to go to anything specific we just name the brand and the product itself.
Plus, I think it is pretty obvious that when we go to a shop and ask for a "sound system" for our TVs, we're not asking for new TV speakers, but for some external output for the TV sound, so we go with that.

You were just nitpicking really. If you understood what Hyland and I said, there was no need to even say any of that. It's as if you said it simply to make fun of our linguistic skills.
If you wanted to correct us, I believe there were better ways to do so.

But thanks for the actual term though, I really didn't know what it was.

On the flip-side, PD shouldn't just target TVs, either. But that makes the job ten times harder.

Of course not. If I recall well from the video of the Forza sound department guy speaking how they worked on the sounds, he mentioned they not only worked on them for those who had expensive discrete sound systems, to which he said those were the minority, but also worked on Forza to make it sound good through the TV speakers.
I don't know what PD's aim is right now, but if they do that as well, and don't focus on making GT sound good just on the TV speakers or just on the discrete sound systems, then great!

 

[Griffith500]

Linguistic erosion and in my case, possibly just the lack of a better translation, as that's how we generally call it in my country. Without using technical terms, we generally say "I want a sound system for my TV" or "a home cinema". If we need to go to anything specific we just name the brand and the product itself.
Plus, I think it is pretty obvious that when we go to a shop and ask for a "sound system" for our TVs, we're not asking for new TV speakers, but for some external output for the TV sound, so we go with that.

But you're just nitpicking really. If you understood what Hyland and I said, there was no need to even say any of that. It's as if you said it simply to make fun of our linguistic skills.

Thanks for the actual term though, I really didn't know what it was.


Of course not. If I recall well from the video of the Forza sound department guy speaking how they worked on the sounds, he mentioned they not only worked on them for those who had expensive discrete sound systems, to which he said those were the minority, but also worked on Forza to make it sound good through the TV speakers.
I don't know what PD's aim is right now, but if they do that as well, and don't focus on making GT sound good just on the TV speakers or just on the discrete sound systems, then great!

The point was that all TVs have a sound system, more or less. Some of them are actually quite good. But most are toss, so you do tend to "need" the discrete option - which is far less limited anyway, from several design standpoints, and so is generally (but not always), far better.

The point is, you should know what sound system you have, and how to get the best out of it - but that means educating people, and manufacturers aren't interested in that, because its harder to sell things on an emotional level (and thus generate more profit on things people don't actually need...)


The Turn10 guy said they only target TVs, becuse that's the kind of hardware he has to use to impress his bosses in the board rooms.
But also because that's what most people have.

PD have added options, but the implementation is flawed slightly. With the improved sounds, they'd have to improve the dynamic range and mixing aspects of the sound, too, so that it does sound good on all hardware, because at the moment it sounds best on highest dynamic range (quiet listening environment, "decent" hardware.)

 

[Wankelhead]

The point was that all TVs have a sound system, more or less. Some of them are actually quite good. But most are toss, so you do tend to "need" the discrete option - which is far less limited anyway, from several design standpoints, and so is generally (but not always), far better.

The point is, you should know what sound system you have, and how to get the best out of it - but that means educating people, and manufacturers aren't interested in that, because its harder to sell things on an emotional level (and thus generate more profit on things people don't actually need...)

Sure, I understand that and I agree with you.
That is quite sad though, but we're driven by money so it's no surprise why manufacturers do that.

The Turn10 guy said they only target TVs, becuse that's the kind of hardware he has to use to impress his bosses in the board rooms.

Really? I don't quite recall that part, but I can see why making a game sound good on the crappy speakers that most HDTVs have, is something that would impress his bosses

(...) With the improved sounds, they'd have to improve the dynamic range and mixing aspects of the sound, too, so that it does sound good on all hardware, (...)

I do hope they acomplish that, then. 👍

 

[RC45]

Not sure why that matters since I see people posting videos that also aren't GT6 in-game sounds.

The point of posting NON-GT videos is to demonstrate that a) GT3/4/5 have poor sounds and that OTHER games have managed to master decent sounds for more than a decade now.

 

[RACECAR]

The point of posting NON-GT videos is to demonstrate that a) GT3/4/5 have poor sounds and that OTHER games have managed to master decent sounds for more than a decade now.

I wasn't arguing against doing that, Just questioning why it mattered if my video was in-game sounds or not.

 

[RC45]

The point was that all TVs have a sound system, more or less. Some of them are actually quite good. But most are toss, so you do tend to "need" the discrete option - which is far less limited anyway, from several design standpoints, and so is generally (but not always), far better.

The point is, you should know what sound system you have, and how to get the best out of it - but that means educating people, and manufacturers aren't interested in that, because its harder to sell things on an emotional level (and thus generate more profit on things people don't actually need...)


The Turn10 guy said they only target TVs, becuse that's the kind of hardware he has to use to impress his bosses in the board rooms.
But also because that's what most people have.

PD have added options, but the implementation is flawed slightly. With the improved sounds, they'd have to improve the dynamic range and mixing aspects of the sound, too, so that it does sound good on all hardware, because at the moment it sounds best on highest dynamic range (quiet listening environment, "decent" hardware.)

What a load of codswallop.

rFactor and amateur home made sound mods for many cars sound better on PC speakers than most cars in GT3/4/5.

Decent sound is no that hard to do - all you need are decent sound samples.

 

[RC45]

I wasn't arguing against doing that, Just questioning why it mattered if my video was in-game sounds or not.

It doesn't matter as a point of showing a fun exciting in game video for use to drool over.

It matters as a point of promoting GT6 as having improved sounds.

GT3/4/5 used overdubbed sounds for their promotional material. Which was a big disappointment.

Perhaps GT6 will be the answer to all our prayers and will have sound as good or better than current competing titles.

Here's hoping.

 

[Chippy569]

herp derp double post

 

[Chippy569]

Decent sound is no that hard to do - all you need are decent sound samples.

You can have the best recordings in the world but it'll still sound (and feel) like crap if the way it interacts with game physics isn't spot on. Car sounds are much more complicated than just "play sound x when y happens." That people don't understand this is one of the most upsetting parts of the job, especially when people like Tiff publicly state that it must be so simple (at 3:58).


it's like saying driving is so simple, just hit the gas and turn the wheel

 

[RC45]

You can have the best recordings in the world but it'll still sound (and feel) like crap if the way it interacts with game physics isn't spot on. Car sounds are much more complicated than just "play sound x when y happens." That people don't understand this is one of the most upsetting parts of the job, especially when people like Tiff publicly state that it must be so simple (at 3:58).


it's like saying driving is so simple, just hit the gas and turn the wheel

Bollocks and tripe.

They are that simple.

You play the samples at the correct time - you manage the frequency of the sample to revs and events.

The ability is PROGRAMMED INTO THE GAMING ENGINE.

This is why it is possible for AMATUERS to add sounds to PC games and they are very good - better than PD sounds.

You know why? Because the SAMPLES ARE CORRECT and appropriate.

The samples in GT3/4/5 are rubbish and INCORRECT most of the time.

They are programmatically correctly applied but are RUBBISH sound samples.

Chap - this is NOT rocket science, it is computer programming, a very logical simple to master concept.

Evidently you have no idea how sound is incorporated into games or any computer program for that matter.

So again - it is in fact 'that simple'.

Here, just for your viewing and auditory pleasure is MY real life car 3D modeled (by me) incorporated into rFactor (by me) and augmented with sound samples (made by me) and some 'borrowed' from the C6 mod and the HistoriX mod. The sounds are then mapped to the game engines ability to rev-match, frequency match and incorporate doppler effects into playback.

This was done over a period of months in my SPARE time using only hobby equipment. If a lowly PC title such as rFactor can rev-match and Doppler tweak sounds, one would hope that GT can as well.

Note that in GT3/4/5 not a single modded Corvette even sounds remotely close to this.

So again, please do not confuse your indignation for facts.



And here is the ZR1 from the C6 mod added to the HistoriX mod to show mix of amateur sounds worked into a PC game. The C6 mod and the HistoriX mod are COMMUNITY made mods that use 'home made' and tweaked samples to bring the ambience of 60's racing to the PC.

Again, if amateur community mod teams can make sounds that sound good, why can PD not do it?

 

[Griffith500]

Well, I was going to respond with some actual information (you know, based on facts and stuff), but I guess the universe has no further need of existing. RC45 holds all the answers. Thanks for turning up everyone!

 

[RC45]

Well, I was going to respond with some actual information (you know, based on facts and stuff), but I guess the universe has no further need of existing. RC45 holds all the answers. Thanks for turning up everyone!

Ah - you are one of those types I see. When someone posts up the real facts and info you go all "sarcastic mode".

Please - by all means try show that what I have posted is not true. Please share with everyone YOUR experience in programming and modding to show that in-game sound effects are some sort of secret black art and voodoo.

Wait, let me save you the trouble. (see, I can also be sarcastic)

In-game sound effects are NOT black art and voodoo.

 

[Terronium-12]

This is rather interesting. I'm not going to get directly involved as I have far less patience than most, however, I specifically like the part where you're telling someone with a B.A. in Sound Design that they have no idea how sound is incorporated into any program.

I'm as critical of the samples used in GT as anyone else, if not more so, but that's incredibly naive.