Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Grand Prix]

I can only assume there was an audio mixer on set somewhere. Or at least, I hope there was.

It doesn't look like a microphone though. Or even an audio recorder.

 

[zr1chris]

Do you really think PD would record their sounds with an MP3 player ?

Well with the way GT5 sounds in most cases sadly I wouldn't have doubted it.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

On the Facebook page, it says they recorded the cars at:

1. WOT (Wide Open Throttle)

2. Cruising

3. Idle

 

[KVelocity]

On the Facebook page, it says they recorded the cars at:

1. WOT (Wide Open Throttle)

2. Cruising

3. Idle

Did they atleast listen in on the standard models too?

 

[Griffith500]

Well with the way GT5 sounds in most cases sadly I wouldn't have doubted it.

Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably because you know nothing about recording sound.
I'll reiterate: the start-up sounds everyone seems to love were recorded in the exact same way. 💡

You know, just maybe, there's a little bit more to reproducing a car's sound in an interactive medium than just recording it.

 

[Grand Prix]

Wait, I see the mic now, it's covered in a windjammer and is set up on a stand. Look under the camera/device/thing the guy is holding.

If they are recording the car while it's running on a dyno, I imagine it would a be a 🤬 of a job getting rid of the dyno sound for the sound designer.

 

[zr1chris]

On the Facebook page, it says they recorded the cars at:

1. WOT (Wide Open Throttle)

2. Cruising

3. Idle

Wait. No full range of rpm's?

Don't take this the wrong way, but that's probably because you know nothing about recording sound.
I'll reiterate: the start-up sounds everyone seems to love were recorded in the exact same way. 💡

You know, just maybe, there's a little bit more to reproducing a car's sound in an interactive medium than just recording it.

Maybe you should go work for PD since you seem to know so much... They could use the help since the in game audio is the worst of any car game on this gen of consoles.

 

[Griffith500]

Wait, I see the mic now, it's covered in a windjammer and is set up on a stand. Look under the camera/device/thing the guy is holding.

If they are recording the car while it's running on a dyno, I imagine it would a be a 🤬 of a job getting rid of the dyno sound for the sound designer.

Hooray!

Anyway, that's why the mic is as close as it is. It's not ideal, but it's only part of the picture and results should be good enough (it works for Forza, apparently). You could use a microphone setup in the garage somewhere to pick up the dyno noise and use that to help cancel any bleed in the recordings.

You ideally should take the car out somewhere open and flat, to record it driving around. Wind noise can be kept to a minimum with intelligent mic locating, and it adds another piece to the puzzle, so to speak.

@zr1chris: brake dynos can hold a car / engine at constant speed at practically any throttle opening you want; it is after all a tuning aid.

 

[mikecustom]

Why are they recording it indoors? Please PD, not this BS again, I'm sorry but if sounds continue to be **** in the series, I'm done, no more Gran Turd-ismo for me.

 

[Jav]

Why are they recording in such a loud and noisy instrument such as a Dyno!!? I'm pretty sure that at the top of 3rd gear the sound made by the dyno more than overwhelms what's coming out of the tail pipes...

 

[zr1chris]

@zr1chris: brake dynos can hold a car / engine at constant speed at practically any throttle opening you want; it is after all a tuning aid.

You don't say. Thanks for the info. I never knew that, even after watching numerous videos and being to one multiple times. Thanks anyway bro. 👎

 

[Grand Prix]

Why are they recording in such a loud and noisy instrument such as a Dyno!!? I'm pretty sure that at the top of 3rd gear the sound made by the dyno more than overwhelms what's coming out of the tail pipes...

They can record the dyno just by itself as well after they take the car off, to cancel it out in audio editing. But yeah, not the way I'd do it either.

I would be concerned with the placement of the mic they chose as well, seems to me there would be a lot of "wind noise" as the exhaust blows over the mic, that's what the fuzzy windjammer is for, but still. Could be the angle we're looking at it though.

 

[cggorman]

I'd be happy with just an upgrade to the quality of engine and exhaust sound. There are some cars in GT5 that I'd love to drive more often - but the sound is terrible. Like a whining little lawn mower. IMHO, sound is a very integral part of the whole sim experience. It adds as much realism as the quality of the graphics.

And you can hear the sound sample repeat itself over and over - it's not seamless. It also seems that many cars use the same sound files - boring. If I'm driving a car with a powerful V8 in it, I want it to sound powerful - not like something a grandmother would drive to church

End of rant

👍 It sounds like they recorded the idle of cars but not above that, that seem to be synthesized from idle.

 

[Griffith500]

You don't say. Thanks for the info. I never knew that, even after watching numerous videos and being to one multiple times. Thanks anyway bro. 👎

Why state they hadn't covered the full rpm range then, when that's something they've been seen to do in the past, and the current samples couldn't exist without? As I said: think!

They can record the dyno just by itself as well after they take the car off, to cancel it out in audio editing. But yeah, not the way I'd do it either.

I would be concerned with the placement of the mic they chose as well, seems to me there would be a lot of "wind noise" as the exhaust blows over the mic, that's what the fuzzy windjammer is for, but still. Could be the angle we're looking at it though.

They listen to it before they record it; it's a pretty basic step in recording stuff. There'll be a guy over with the computer with a set of headphones on monitoring all the levels, checking for clipping and other nasties, as well as making sure that the sounds are qualitatively what's required.

👍 It sounds like they recorded the idle of cars but not above that, that seem to be synthesized from idle.

It's all synthesised.

 

[zr1chris]

Why state they hadn't covered the full rpm range then, when that's something they've been seen to do in the past, and the current samples couldn't exist without? As I said: think!

Did you even read the quote that I was responding to? Doesn't say anything about full rpm range recording. Idle, wide open and cruising were the only 3 listed. You may want to learn how to think yourself and also how to speak to someone with some respect. Thanks again.

 

[cggorman]

Why state they hadn't covered the full rpm range then, when that's something they've been seen to do in the past, and the current samples couldn't exist without? As I said: think!

They listen to it before they record it; it's a pretty basic step in recording stuff. There'll be a guy over with the computer with a set of headphones on monitoring all the levels, checking for clipping and other nasties, as well as making sure that the sounds are qualitatively what's required.

It's all synthesised.

Well that would explain a lot... haha.

 

[Grand Prix]

They listen to it before they record it; it's a pretty basic step in recording stuff. There'll be a guy over with the computer with a set of headphones on monitoring all the levels, checking for clipping and other nasties, as well as making sure that the sounds are qualitatively what's required.

That's a lot of assumptions there on PD's sound team. We can only assume they will check over it to prevent clipping.

It seems to me the XJ13 might suffer from a lot of clipping issues. Possibly the GT40s from past GTs as well.

 

[Griffith500]

Did you even read the quote that I was responding to? Doesn't say anything about full rpm range recording. Idle, wide open and cruising were the only 3 listed. You may want to learn how to think yourself and also how to speak to someone with some respect. Thanks again.

I think it's pretty obvious, but there you go.
Also, mind the hypocrisy; you weren't exactly "respectful" yourself.

Well that would explain a lot... haha.

It's only what you wanted to hear.
Here's more info. Most racing games use 2-dimensional "multi-samplers", GT included.

That's a lot of assumptions there on PD's sound team. We can only assume they will check over it to prevent clipping.

It seems to me the XJ13 might suffer from a lot of clipping issues. Possibly the GT40s from past GTs as well.

In those two cases, the dirtiness is due to instabilities at part-throttle (they weren't recorded on a dyno) causing uneven fueling and secondary combustion in the exhaust: spits, pops and farts. Such things make looping very difficult (like with the Tuscan).
You don't get to be a recording engineer without knowing about clipping; it's very basic stuff.

I guess they just can't win.

 

[mikecustom]

I think it's pretty obvious, but there you go.
Also, mind the hypocrisy; you weren't exactly "respectful" yourself.

It's only what you wanted to hear.
Here's more info. Most racing games use 2-dimensional "multi-samplers", GT included.

In those two cases, the dirtiness is due to instabilities at part-throttle (they weren't recorded on a dyno) causing uneven fueling and secondary combustion in the exhaust: spits, pops and farts. Such things make looping very difficult (like with the Tuscan).
You don't get to be a recording engineer without knowing about clipping; it's very basic stuff.

I guess they just can't win.

Stop defending PD, it's pretty obvious they don't know how to make sounds.

If you know that much about sound, you, more than anybody else, recognize that they're doing everything wrong.

What's your theory on GT's crappy sounds? What do you think the problem might be?

Don't tell me they are doing a great job, or all your arguments will become unvalid.

 

[cggorman]

Hey hey hey, play nice everyone, this is a thread to discuss what we think about the quality of the sound in Gt5 whether it be amazing (if only) or it is... lacking.
//
@mikecustom

Personally I think that they slacked, or didn't have the budget (yeah right).

 

[CorvetteConquer]

There's always room for improvement. This is certain.

 

[zr1chris]

I think it's pretty obvious, but there you go.
Also, mind the hypocrisy; you weren't exactly "respectful" yourself.

You were the one that opened things off by assuming I know nothing about recording sound. I give what I get.

Also I don't think it's pretty obvious given how bad the in game sounds are and that they listed those 3 very specific scenarios. Why single out and only name those 3 specific scenarios if they recorded dozens of them?

 

[Griffith500]

Stop defending PD, it's pretty obvious they don't know how to make sounds.

If you know that much about sound, you, more than anybody else, recognize that they're doing everything wrong.

What's your theory on GT's crappy sounds? What do you think the problem might be?

Don't tell me they are doing a great job, or all your arguments will become unvalid.

My theories should be easy enough to find earlier in this thread, and in many other places, if you're that bothered about invalidating my opinion.

Besides, I'm not defending PD so much as battling ignorance.
Of course, it's not a battle that will ever be won - people will always not know things, but they should at least be aware of this.

You were the one that opened things off by assuming I know nothing about recording sound. I give what I get.

Also I don't think it's pretty obvious given how bad the in game sounds are and that they listed those 3 very specific scenarios. Why single out and only name those 3 specific scenarios if they recorded dozens of them?

I didn't assume, you demonstrated. I said not to take offence, though.
For the third time: start-up sounds.

By the way, "WOT" and "cruising" are not really specific at all. To spell it out: you can be WOT and cruising at any rpm.

Once again, PD have been collecting multiple rpm data since before GT2; I doubt that's changed. What hasn't been standard from that point onwards is recording WOT at all; some were only revved in neutral (which is what causes those fueling instabilities I was talking about.)

 

[Grand Prix]

I think it's pretty obvious, but there you go.
Also, mind the hypocrisy; you weren't exactly "respectful" yourself.


It's only what you wanted to hear.
Here's more info. Most racing games use 2-dimensional "multi-samplers", GT included.


In those two cases, the dirtiness is due to instabilities at part-throttle (they weren't recorded on a dyno) causing uneven fueling and secondary combustion in the exhaust: spits, pops and farts. Such things make looping very difficult (like with the Tuscan).
You don't get to be a recording engineer without knowing about clipping; it's very basic stuff.

I guess they just can't win.

No they can't.

Whether they actually know how to make proper sound or not is irrelevant, it's about what they actually do. I'm pretty sure Michael Bay would have been taught early on in film school not to rely on random explosions to drive a scene forward, but whether he actually decides to use this advice or not is up to him. In other words, just because they are taught how to make excellent sound for a game, doesn't mean they will.

The consistently bad sound could be for any number of reasons. Maybe the sound people are good friends of Kaz who only have basic skills, but he wanted to give them a job? Maybe Kaz isn't overseeing the sound department as much as the others, because he doesn't care as much? Maybe the sound department is under constant time pressures and don't have time for perfection? We don't know.


What I do know is, I don't like how most of the cars in GT games sound, and that simply it's fun to poke fun at PD and company. It's just a bit of fun arm chair criticizing. We know a film like Transformers takes millions of dollars and hundreds of people (people that have to believe they are making something fantastic, it's part of their job) to make, and that it is very difficult to accomplish such a thing. But we can still make fun of its flaws. 👍

 

[JoRdY105]

I think it might have something to do with the time it would take to get all the sounds need for each car, 1000 times! And I believe to have all the different sounds for each car would take a fair deal of the memory space!

I personally would love to put a sports exhaust on a V8 and have it crackle down gears, but I could imagine it would be hard to work it differently to each car! So it is probably a time thing

 

[mustangfan663]

This is just awful

The guy is using what looks like a MP3 player or cell phone to record exhaust sounds 👎

Yah more **** car sounds

 

[ShortAzianKid]

Agreed, cars sound different yes, but after you but on an exhaust pipe every car sounds the same...

 

[Earth]

I think it might have something to do with the time it would take to get all the sounds need for each car, 1000 times! And I believe to have all the different sounds for each car would take a fair deal of the memory space!

I personally would love to put a sports exhaust on a V8 and have it crackle down gears, but I could imagine it would be hard to work it differently to each car! So it is probably a time thing

There isn't a need to model the sound for every single car. For example the Toyota TS030 Hybrid racecar uses the same 3.4L V8 engine thats in their Super GT cars. The Aston Martin DBR9 GT1 racecar uses the same engine as the Lola-Aston Martin B09/60 prototype, a 6.0L V12. The road going Aston Martin DB9 uses pretty much the same engine as the two racecars, so they should all sound alike outside of the different exhaust types

While GT5 had something they resembled a big block V8 engine sound for such cars, small block higher revivng V8s , V10s and V12s were poorly represented. And the diesels need to sound like...diesels. Especially during high speed fly bys

 

[1241Penguin]

Why state they hadn't covered the full rpm range then, when that's something they've been seen to do in the past, and the current samples couldn't exist without? As I said: think!

I think it might have something to do with the time it would take to get all the sounds need for each car, 1000 times! And I believe to have all the different sounds for each car would take a fair deal of the memory space!

I personally would love to put a sports exhaust on a V8 and have it crackle down gears, but I could imagine it would be hard to work it differently to each car! So it is probably a time thing

Of course not. Given the amount of "duplicate" cars, PD would not have to record sounds 1000 separate times. Furthermore, the sound for one car can also be used for another. For example, all of the 4-cylinder Subarus should have the same sound, so that's 27 cars done just like that. The same can be said for the Skyline GT-Rs, Mazda MX-5s, S2000s, and a lot more.

 

[SkylineObsession]

They definitely need to improve the sounds, moreso than they have ever needed to.

There are quite a number of cars i would love to drive more often in the game (the Countachs, a few non GT-R Skylines and so on) but because they don't sound good no matter what exhaust you put on, i sadly just leave them sitting in the garage collecting dust.

Not cool. 👎

And while i'm at it, they need to get proper gearchange sounds back. Every single car sounds like its a freakin' paddle shift or something!!