Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[occasionalracer]

Dear Masao Kimura,

We, the Gran Turismo Community, are watching your every move.

Please make significant adjustments to the way your recorded audio is outputted in all variable circumstances for GT6.

Thank you and enjoy the rest of your development time.

 

[Earth]

Forza 4 again showing how its done. What would happen at :42 to PD's lame audio equipment



Looks like bad sounds are confirmed again for GT6. Sigh.

Oh and the car? Forget about. Not going to be in GT6. Expect plenty of Miatas, though.

 

[Foxiol]

Yup...if PD only takes "samples" from the sound but not for put it in the game...i mean i guess PD record the sample of the engine and then try to recreate/imitate it all digitalized...

If they are making this and we are going to listen to this awful not realistic sounds again... they can say "bye bye" to me and many more.

Sounds are part of the overall immersion in the game...engine sounds must sound realistic and equal to the real cars...again Forza is not a good example because they add some "WRROM" effects to all cars and yes engines sounds good or more alive but that exaggeration at least to me is not good...and the ambience sounds are missing in action lol

SIMBIN knows how to make realistic engine sounds...

Race07:

BMW M3 GT2 ALMS

In Game:


Real car:




So please...

 

[Griffith500]

I have to admit, the pessimism in the last few posts did make me smile. I guess there's no real reason to believe there will be massive improvements in the next game, but who knows.
I'd still like to see evidence that the audio equipment PD (or their - contracted? - sound recordists are using) is "lame", though.

There may be a very good reason that PD only need the one, flat, close-mic'd, unadulterated recording of the exhaust. Certainly, you can do a lot more with a clean recording than one that has a multitude of environmental and localisation / "acoustic transfer" effects all mixed together from multiple sources.

Of course, the latter can be used sort-of-convincingly in any situation in-game, but it's fixed - you cannot reliably change the "colouration" to suit what's occurring on-screen. With the clean sound, though, you can do all-sorts of cool things for better immersion.

The difference comes down to one basically being artist-led (hand-mixed contribution of sources) and the other simulation / technical led sounds. I've had some interesting results playing with the latter myself, which is why I'm a bit excited about what PD could do.

 

[mikecustom]

I wish I've never seen that Veloster picture, now I have feeling GT6 will be more of the same, I'm still hoping PD will revamp their way to make car sounds.

If GT6 isn't real improvement over all GT (especially soundwise) I won't be buying it.

Hopefully, Kaz and PD will learn their lesson and listen to us, or study it's rivals. There's nothing wrong with taking a look at the competition and and see what could be used for GT.

 

[sumbrownkid]

That Veloster image only tells a part of the tale. It didn't show all the work that was probably going on before hand and after.

People just need to chillax.

Some of the sounds in GT5 actually sound alright (LFA, ZR1, and some others) so PD is at least somewhat on the right track. Let's see if they continue on that right track in GT6.

 

[finnracer]

Too much assumption on too little information/evidence. PD can do good sounds (C6 Z06 sounds very close to the original) but they need to drastically improve the consistency of the sounds, and the main issue I feel is the identical sounds used for the upgraded exhausts, fine if its the same car with the same engine but in most cases it isn't!

 

[Raitziger]

Too much assumption on too little information/evidence.

Yes there has been no clues that sounds would be any different.

 

[mikecustom]

That Veloster image only tells a part of the tale. It didn't show all the work that was probably going on before hand and after.

People just need to chillax.

Some of the sounds in GT5 actually sound alright (LFA, ZR1, and some others) so PD is at least somewhat on the right track. Let's see if they continue on that right track in GT6.

Wrong, not a single car sounds "alright"

 

[Eager Snake]

Yes, some sounds are ok, but we are talking about 1000+ cars.
And PD has only 3 single guys to do THAT job:

HOW in the he&" can they do that?!

I play with a Sony 5.1 HT, I turn the volume really up and I have modified the sound field in the options from time to time to get better results...

Some cars sound well, the inmersion is way better but not the ideal one, and honestly I can't put the volume LOUDER at 0300am (at least not always hahaha).

Some LMS cars has really good sound from the hood, but it's just plane sound. It feels really good to the GT standards and other games too in some cases and particular moments, but it lacks other things as well...

I love Gran Turismo but they are far from perfect in that area.
If they improve the sound with proper recording sessions, meaning that the sound is well represented in-game because, let me tell you this guys, the only game where I have found realistic sound in a decent way was in that mod of rFactor: rFactor - Lola DBR1-2 Aston Martin Sound MOD

BUT WAIT, I said that because of this: Project CARS, rFactor and many other sims have better sound than GT, but I always found that moment of digital truth. I mean, GT has that moment almost every single second in the game but we already know that...
In the consoles sims, Forza is an example, the cars sounds great, but for me they are TOO exaggerated and they ended up annoying me.
In Shift they sound well, but the "sections" of the differents sounds represented in-game are too separated between them. For me ears at least, it sounds like, breaking, one second of silence, then engine and a second later breaking again...

At least for me, that's the question I think at the end of the day: is it realistic for you?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes, some sounds are ok, but we are talking about 1000+ cars.
And PD has only 3 single guys to do THAT job:

HOW in the he&" can they do that?!

I play with a Sony 5.1 HT, I turn the volume really up and I have modified the sound field in the options from time to time to get better results...

Some cars sound well, the inmersion is way better but not the ideal one, and honestly I can't put the volume LOUDER at 0300am (at least not always hahaha).

Some LMS cars has really good sound from the hood, but it's just plane sound. It feels really good to the GT standards and other games too in some cases and particular moments, but it lacks other things as well...

I love Gran Turismo but they are far from perfect in that area.
If they improve the sound with proper recording sessions, meaning that the sound is well represented in-game because, let me tell you this guys, the only game where I have found realistic sound in a decent way was in that mod of rFactor: rFactor - Lola DBR1-2 Aston Martin Sound MOD

BUT WAIT, I said that because of this: Project CARS, rFactor and many other sims have better sound than GT, but I always found that moment of digital truth. I mean, GT has that moment almost every single second in the game but we already know that...
In the consoles sims, Forza is an example, the cars sounds great, but for me they are TOO exaggerated and they ended up annoying me.
In Shift they sound well, but the "sections" of the differents sounds represented in-game are too separated between them. For me ears at least, it sounds like, breaking, one second of silence, then engine and a second later breaking again...

At least for me, that's the question I think at the end of the day: is it realistic for you?

Please listen to the video that I posted here on previous page, if you haven't already.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7494611#post7494611

Would it be possible to have such sounds in game ? Does the Rfactor that you mentioned sounded as good as in the video ?

To me, that is the kind of realistic sound in a car game, no game has able to do so, not the game I have played at least.

 

[1241Penguin]

Some of the sounds in GT5 actually sound alright (LFA, ZR1, and some others) so PD is at least somewhat on the right track. Let's see if they continue on that right track in GT6.

GT5 ZR1:



Real ZR1:



GT5 LFA:



Real LFA:

Yes, some sounds are ok, but we are talking about 1000+ cars.
And PD has only 3 single guys to do THAT job:

That is not a good excuse. 15 years of knowing that the sound isn't good, they should already see the reason behind it (unless this is PD's standard in terms of sound) and they should have fixed the problem.

 

[PAPPACLART]

People keep saying PD have 1000 cars, have they not had roughly that same roster of cars since 2004 and gran Turismo 4 and many from GT3 and prior. Plenty of years to get at least most of them right but it is a simple case of priorities and sound has not been one of them, that is clear with only 3 people tasked with the job at PD.

They have 1000 cars but not even 50 actually sound correct and like they should.

The PD sound team really either need to up their game, cry for more staff or whatever is a barrier to them actually giving the stunning cars the sound that they deserve.

We are at the 5th incarnation of GT and yet we have only a decent doppler effect but with very few correct samples of which have been poorly synthesized.

I played Forza 4 in a shopping center and used a Radical, I was so immersed from the scream it made that I was really enjoying the game for that reason alone.

I ride motorcycles, one is a typical Inline 4 that revs to 12,000rpm, the other bike is a 90 V2 that sounds like a 10500rpm NASCAR. The sound of a good motor being thrashed is just one of those magical things that PD with GT5 95% of the time fail to even get close to capturing.

I will write to Santa at the time and wish for some good proper sounds from GT6.

 

[Foxiol]

Well i add some more...

New free game coming by Simbin called RaceRoom Racing Experience...they uploaded this video just today...

In game...yes IN GAME SOUNDS...



Real car...R.I.P Georg Plasa:





Now tell me again that GT5 sounds are good or close to the real ones...yeah okay...next...👍

PD can do it...

 

[theotherspongey]

I think the 3 or so posts above me easily stomp on peoples opinions that the game has realistic sounds...

 

[Griffith500]

I think the 3 or so posts above me easily stomp on peoples opinions that the game has realistic sounds...

I don't recall anyone claiming they were realistic, so it's sort of ineffectual stomping really.

EDIT: @Foxiol they forgot the intake sound; that's the defining feature of that Judd engine as it was installed in Georg Plasa's cars.

 

[Eager Snake]

Ridox2JZGTE, that was a pretty dam"·$ good example of how the R33 GT-R should sound.

And, yes, I think the sound in the rFactor mod was very very good, at least the first time I heard it it was awesome.
I have to admit also that the rest of times when I heard the same mod and replay it wasn't THAT awesome but it is indeed a really really good example of sound for a game, even more, being made by a fan 👍

rFactor - Lola DBR1-2 Aston Martin Sound MOD:

​

1241Penguin, that wasn't an excuse, it's just reality, and is also true what you are saying. Probably, for the worst, GT5's sounds are the new standard for PD

Foxiol, that was AMAZING. It sounds JUST AMAZING...

 

[Dude27]

@Foxiol: They had teased us with GTR3... but the tease was true: their trackside sounds and doppler are Awesome! a true revolution in sound AT LAST, let's hope Kaz will be able to match that in GT6. For me half the experience to drive these beasts are in the sound they produce. Sounds should always be on par with the graphics.

This video needed a new thread, it's the future in motion for our favourite hobby afterall... but it was quickly closed... of course.

 

[Foxiol]

@Foxiol: They had teased us with GTR3... but the tease was true: their trackside sounds and doppler are Awesome! a true revolution in sound AT LAST, let's hope Kaz will be able to match that in GT6. For me half the experience to drive these beasts are in the sound they produce. Sounds should always be on par with the graphics.

This video needed a new thread, it's the future in motion for our favourite hobby afterall... but it was quickly closed... of course.

Yeah no doubt...this is incredible. Imagine replays with this sounds...you can even hear the echo sounds when the car is coming. I always dreamed with something like this.

I have all Simbin games and to me they are the beasts in sound and in the immersion department talking about Racing games/simulators.

Sound means experience, immersion, adrenaline, concentration...everything. We need this.👍

More videos are going to come and the game itself. As they said to us..."stay tuned". 👍

@ Eager Snake...totally agreed man. BEST SOUNDS EVER! And i have Enduracers and Adac GT Masters + HistoriX (GTL) mods for rFactor...amazing sounds too.

 

[CJDA9]

Please add better sounds, hell yeah this has been needed for some time the sounds in GT just don't compare to other driving sims out there. Even Live for speed a sim that has been out since 2002 (i think) maybe 03 sounds better than GT.

 

[KVelocity]

I want better sound, but I also want my full racing exhaust to sound closer to the actual exhaust system! It turns muscle cars into what may be an overzealous sounding go kart. On that same note get rid of that freaking racing transmission whining, I want to drive a 69 Camaro not a Roswell UFO!

 

[Eager Snake]

Foxiol, can you imagine those sounds with rollovers and crashes like this?

​

I mean, that's other thing: why the crashes and the entire "deformation system" is SO ugly?
Let me tell you, as I said before, I love Gran Turismo and I love the passion and effort from Kaz and his team, but I really think that they need to look outside for some things.
Kaz loves cars, ok then, treat them as they deserved then.

He has some fetish I think about how perfect the cars look in the game (at least the premium ones) and I REALLY think that he doesn't want to breake them.
I don't know, it's weird.

You can look all the videos from this year's Nurburgring and the entire participation of his team, and you can clearly see how his GT-R was crashed and all. Why not put that detail into the game?...

So, resuming, the sound and the crashes...

 

[Lox83]

IMO GT2 had the best car sounds out of the series! I think if the developers are going to make us wait so longs for sequels, surely there is enough time to record individual real car sounds!?

 

[MSTER232]

IMO GT2 had the best car sounds out of the series! I think if the developers are going to make us wait so longs for sequels, surely there is enough time to record individual real car sounds!?

Welcome to GTPlanet 👍 .

 

[Jason]

I Agree with you 100%. Many of the standard cars sound the same when equipped with the racing exhaust.

 

[Foxiol]

Foxiol, can you imagine those sounds with rollovers and crashes like this?

I mean, that's other thing: why the crashes and the entire "deformation system" is SO ugly?
Let me tell you, as I said before, I love Gran Turismo and I love the passion and effort from Kaz and his team, but I really think that they need to look outside for some things.
Kaz loves cars, ok then, treat them as they deserved then.

He has some fetish I think about how perfect the cars look in the game (at least the premium ones) and I REALLY think that he doesn't want to breake them.
I don't know, it's weird.

You can look all the videos from this year's Nurburgring and the entire participation of his team, and you can clearly see how his GT-R was crashed and all. Why not put that detail into the game?...

So, resuming, the sound and the crashes...

Yeah, i know what are you talking about, i have tons of racing games/simulators.

I have those mods that you show in that video too. The Toyota Supra is one of the most destructible cars in the game because it was made piece by piece , so we can see it destroyed almost entirely.

That´s the problem...depends in how they are making the cars we can have or not have destruction or even deformable parts at all. It also needs a lot of processing power to make it possible. There are other variables that the CPU mostly needs to calculate when a car crashes in the game.

That´s the main reason...it takes time to model a car piece by piece making it deformable and destructible. PD uses this only for rally cars and some RM´s because it takes a lot of time to do it. And if we want to see all cars destructible for the next game they need to rebuild all cars and add parameters to each piece. That is a lot of work if you have in consideration the quality of the car models and the amount of them.

It is not a matter of brands restriction only...too much work to do that. pCARS is making all cars destructible but you don´t see deformation just pieces of the car as Rally cars in GT5. I saw only one car by now with some deformation added to the "removable" parts and it is the Audi A4 DTM.

Don´t forget that this game is purely designed to a single console and depending in how powerful is going to be the next one we can wait and see if this is possible or not...but again too many cars and too much work to do.

But back into topic...SOUNDS...is all that we need to have a better experience and to not fall asleep in Nürburgring or LeMans...and yeah i believe that some more cars in the track can make this game better...20 to 23 AI´s is other thing that we need (and smart AI of course not turtles, lol). And that it´s possible with a little more RAM and processing power. (PS4 maybe)

 

[Earth]

Question to sound people. What maks a 5.5L V8 Corvette GT2 Race Car engine sound different from a 5.9L V8 NASCAR engine? Is it the RPM? The exhaust? The intake?

I'm trying to figure out how many different sounds PD has to record to cover the variety of cars in GT.

A NASCAR flyby should not sound the same as a Ford GT flyby, but they do in GT5. Do they sound different in real life simply because the NASCAR is revving at 9,000 RPM and the Ford GT at only about 6,000? Or is there more?

 

[Griffith500]

Question to sound people. What maks a 5.5L V8 Corvette GT2 Race Car engine sound different from a 5.9L V8 NASCAR engine? Is it the RPM? The exhaust? The intake?

I'm trying to figure out how many different sounds PD has to record to cover the variety of cars in GT.

A NASCAR flyby should not sound the same as a Ford GT flyby, but they do in GT5. Do they sound different in real life simply because the NASCAR is revving at 9,000 RPM and the Ford GT at only about 6,000? Or is there more?

The simple answer is all of those things affect the sound.

The absolute minimum number of samples would be one (set) for each engine type. The ideal case would have different samples for every firing order, cam timing (including phasing), cam lift, port and valve sizes, runner lengths (and all combinations of different lengths), resonator volumes, fuel, compression ratio etc. etc.
Then you need to sample across the entire rev range as finely as possible, at different throttle inputs, including transitions, plus all listening angles from the interior and exterior and so on.

In other words, there are an infinite number of samples required to accurately reflect all the changes and subtleties in the sounds a single car makes. I know that you can do a lot of that with simulation, so recordings need only be for reference and then you can technically get infinite expression from tweaking the simulation inputs i.e. when tuning and when playing back at run-time.

Some games are going the route of applying more and more "what you hear" samples (because that's what everything's geared up for), whilst I think the future lies in stripping back the layers of detail and "sampling" at a much lower level. In fact, I know how to reproduce the main differences in those two cars you mentioned, using the exact same samples for each. The problem is that the sort of data required might not be easy to get at.

 

[Raitziger]

Largest thing affecting sound seems to audio-guy using iphone to record sound opposed to using proper multichannel setup

 

[avens]

has Kaz said anything about (bad) GT5 sounds?