Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[1241Penguin]

Not explicitly. However, he has mentioned "improving engine sounds" before (before GT5 was released). Also, the fact that he's updating the sounds every here and then during the updates should suggest that he's aware of the bad sounds.

 

[mikecustom]

has Kaz said anything about (bad) GT5 sounds?

looking at GT's history, either he knows but don't give a **** or he thinks sound is great and does not need improvement.

 

[theotherspongey]

...he thinks sound is great and does not need improvement.

Probably that.

 

[tpark103]

From the pictures I've seen it looked like PD was making sound recordings directly from the tale-pipes of the Hyundai Veloster, wether or not this holds true for the rest of the upcoming cars and even translates into a sound improvement remains to be seen.

 

[Griffith500]

From the pictures I've seen it looked like PD was making sound recordings directly from the tale-pipes of the Hyundai Veloster, wether or not this holds true for the rest of the upcoming cars and even translates into a sound improvement remains to be seen.

It's what they've been doing since before GT2. Since their collection method hasn't changed, we need to hope that what they do with those collected recordings has changed.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

The XKR, Enzo and Z06 show me that PD can produce quality in-game engine sounds.

But more often than not, the sound quality is below average.

 

[MSTER232]

Guys, this is the solution to all your problems involving how bad GT5 sounds are:

​

Get a real engine, strap it to your sim rig and there you go 👍 !

 

[zedextreme8177]

The XKR, Enzo and Z06 show me that PD can produce quality in-game engine sounds.

But more often than not, the sound quality is below average.

You are correct on the XKR and Z06 (both very accurate and high-quality sounding cars), but the Enzo is way off to be accurate. The sample itself is quality, but it'd work best on a Ferrari 458 Italia (or any of the Ferrari's with a flatplane V8 engine)

(Onboard at 3:46)



To be honest, I feel the Enzo's titanium exhaust sample would work really well on the Italia, along with a proper dual-clutch gearbox shifting simulation


And finally here's how the Enzo should sound:

 

[Griffith500]

And it's exactly how it won't sound if they don't start including intake!

 

[Eager Snake]

Yeah, i know what are you talking about, i have tons of racing games/simulators.

I have those mods that you show in that video too. The Toyota Supra is one of the most destructible cars in the game because it was made piece by piece , so we can see it destroyed almost entirely.

That´s the problem...depends in how they are making the cars we can have or not have destruction or even deformable parts at all. It also needs a lot of processing power to make it possible. There are other variables that the CPU mostly needs to calculate when a car crashes in the game.

That´s the main reason...it takes time to model a car piece by piece making it deformable and destructible. PD uses this only for rally cars and some RM´s because it takes a lot of time to do it. And if we want to see all cars destructible for the next game they need to rebuild all cars and add parameters to each piece. That is a lot of work if you have in consideration the quality of the car models and the amount of them.

It is not a matter of brands restriction only...too much work to do that. pCARS is making all cars destructible but you don´t see deformation just pieces of the car as Rally cars in GT5. I saw only one car by now with some deformation added to the "removable" parts and it is the Audi A4 DTM.

Don´t forget that this game is purely designed to a single console and depending in how powerful is going to be the next one we can wait and see if this is possible or not...but again too many cars and too much work to do.

But back into topic...SOUNDS...is all that we need to have a better experience and to not fall asleep in Nürburgring or LeMans...and yeah i believe that some more cars in the track can make this game better...20 to 23 AI´s is other thing that we need (and smart AI of course not turtles, lol). And that it´s possible with a little more RAM and processing power. (PS4 maybe)

Exactly, but you need to remember the pace and atention to detail that PD has.
Knowing that is kinda annoying, I think, that Kaz doesn't realize about the sounds in the game. The way that sounds are reproduce in the game depending on the view is accurate, but it lacks a lot of layers to be more inmersive.
For example, the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP sounds great from the hood, but as I said before, it's just plane sound.
The thing that bother me the most is that PD actually has sound in his videos, for example:

​

By the way, I really like the way you said, PD can do it 👍

I want the best for the franchise, so Kaz, you better start to listen!

 

[avens]

maybe kaz is partially deaf

 

[HuskyGT]

I know I usually say how much I hate NFS (and I do), but if you've ever played NFS Undercover, that's a good example of how sounds should be, minus the hollywood-ish exaggerated sound effects. It's probably the only NFS with good sound samples and sound effects except for maybe three cars. Other NFS games sound absolutely hideous, especially Shift 1 & 2.

I was playing with the M3 E46 with stock exhaust, and oh man... I just wished I could record the vid and mail it to Kaz along with a vid of a real E46 and the E46 in GT5 for comparison. (the one on GT5 sounds like a V8, lol)... If a little game meant for kids can do things right, why can't GT?

avens
maybe kaz is partially deaf

As funny as it might sound, to this date it could be a possibility. And you know how people are in Japan; as a sign of respect, no one dares to contradict the boss.

 

[Griffith500]

All pre-rendered videos are dubbed. Using straight recordings preserves their quality (see: start-up sounds). Snipping them up, blending, and then looping them does not - unless you use very long samples, or very low-level sampling.

 

[PAPPACLART]

We had the same discussion regarding GT5 sounds before the game was released and although we have seen improvements over GT4 the upgrade is far from satisfactory I am afraid.

I think we will again see an improvement hike over GT5 but I am not confident that we will get the results we want and that the cars deserve.

Fingers crossed though.

 

[Griffith500]

They can improve a lot by changing very little; namely: getting the right samples in the right places. Anything above that requires new samples (either from existing recordings or new ones), and / or new synthesis schemes.

Fingers crossed indeed.

 

[PAPPACLART]

They can improve a lot by changing very little; namely: getting the right samples in the right places. Anything above that requires new samples (either from existing recordings or new ones), and / or new synthesis schemes.

Fingers crossed indeed.

I agree but I do not see the motivation to do so from PD.

For a Developer that is know for and prides itself on attention to detail I see so many areas of GT5 where this attention is just totally lacking.

It's like cleaning your engine obsessively so it sparkles but forgetting the rest of the car.

Some of the cars sound absolutely criminal, especially some of the LMP cars, with many using poor recycled samples that sound nothing like the real car. The fact that things like this have been approved is very worrying to me and shows a lack of passion/desire and laziness from that side of PD.

As somebody who is passionate about cars and how they sound, this aspect would be quite a high priority for my game but still PD fail in this area.

The recent shot of the Hyundai on a Dyno with a guy holding what looks like a Dictaphone gives me no confidence as it looks like PD are recording engine notes in the same way they have always done. Recording the idle then digitizing it poorly.

I hope they are reading this thread and somebody at PD highlights the communities desire for a realistic and immersive sound experience.

 

[counter345]

You are correct on the XKR and Z06 (both very accurate and high-quality sounding cars), but the Enzo is way off to be accurate. The sample itself is quality, but it'd work best on a Ferrari 458 Italia (or any of the Ferrari's with a flatplane V8 engine)

(Onboard at 3:46)
(snip)

And finally here's how the Enzo should sound:
(snip)

The GT5 reference video you have used, in regard to the Enzo, is one with the upgraded exhaust. In my honest opinion, I watched the stig Enzo video, and the original exhaust on GT5 has a pretty similar sample (if not exactly the same if it included more grunt from the intake, as Griffith500 suggested). Take a listen yourself if you have GT5 or here if you don't:

Well actually there is nothing wrong with the STOCK car sounds in gt5 it's just when you put a titanium fart cannon on cars is when they sound like 2 stroke weed wakers

I sort of agree with this; most premium cars have a fairly close sample to their real life counterparts.

 

[Griffith500]

I agree but I do not see the motivation to do so from PD.

For a Developer that is know for and prides itself on attention to detail I see so many areas of GT5 where this attention is just totally lacking.

It's like cleaning your engine obsessively so it sparkles but forgetting the rest of the car.

Some of the cars sound absolutely criminal, especially some of the LMP cars, with many using poor recycled samples that sound nothing like the real car. The fact that things like this have been approved is very worrying to me and shows a lack of passion/desire and laziness from that side of PD.

As somebody who is passionate about cars and how they sound, this aspect would be quite a high priority for my game but still PD fail in this area.

The recent shot of the Hyundai on a Dyno with a guy holding what looks like a Dictaphone gives me no confidence as it looks like PD are recording engine notes in the same way they have always done. Recording the idle then digitizing it poorly.

I hope they are reading this thread and somebody at PD highlights the communities desire for a realistic and immersive sound experience.

I think you might be mistaken about what you think you saw in that picture. He was holding a camera, and the microphone was on a stand below that. That's not to say that hand-held recorders always lack quality, either.

I don't understand the recycled sounds either, except maybe if they're placeholders. For what, who knows. But when you do have the sort of attention to detail that PD has, nothing is that simple. The weather system is probably a good example (the fact that it genuinely is a simulated system for a start); they could have just used presets with no dynamics, or if they did use dynamics, just "cross-fade" them by random chance. Instead they decided to try to model the atmospheric conditions and have it evolve more-or-less naturally.

Imagine that traditional sound sampling is like the pre-defined weather settings, replete with blending between said presets. Now imagine what the "simulation"-style, attention-to-detail approach would mean for sounds. Maybe that explains why it's been such a long time coming (their new sound designer started with GT4).

If they are reading this thread, I hope they disregard the clamour for Hollywood-esque effects (although a distortion option might satisfy those with a sweet tooth / crap speakers) and deliver something more like that video Ridox2JZGTE posted. The level of detail and expression required for that kind of modeling is beyond anything anyone is doing right now, but the software based sound processing means that it's easier to do weird and wonderful, new things.

My personal feeling is that GT5 was about getting the framework in place (the sound engine, which is superb), and the details should follow, as historically it has with the second bite of the platform apple. Of course, it might just be that their priorities do lie elsewhere, and we won't see a change in GT6, but I doubt that will have anything to do with laziness. There's also a good chance that their preferred "simulation" approach will have to wait until PS4 to work in real-time, but that depends on how far they go.


@counter345: the problem with the Enzo is that it uses samples for a flat-plane V8, not unlike the F430. Which is odd, because before release, in a demo somewhere, it had a definite 3-cyl / 6-cyl / V12 sound - also in GTPSP, although it has the same issues as the 599 (short -> thin samples, no intake). This particular aspect of the sound issue, i.e. the mis-application of samples, is the most perplexing for me.

 

[Crowood]

Here is a vid that was not shown before (i think)



The Gallardo is a bit over the top immo.

If you listen carefull (not in this vid), GT5 got some decent exhaust notes, sadly only in the low revs.

The spot, when you hear the cars in real life, that gives you the silly "awesome" grin, is exactly the spot where GT 5 fails.

The cars in GT 5 sound to "soft", some hondas with race exhaust are the only ones i remember that got a "nasty" touch.

 

[a5kylar990]

Well actually there is nothing wrong with the STOCK car sounds in gt5 it's just when you put a titanium fart cannon on cars is when they sound like 2 stroke weed wakers

 

[Foxiol]

Well actually there is nothing wrong with the STOCK car sounds in gt5 it's just when you put a titanium fart cannon on cars is when they sound like 2 stroke weed wakers

Keep telling that to your deaf ears my friend.

And why you put the same thing twice in this thread?...

@Eager Snake Said:

"Exactly, but you need to remember the pace and atention to detail that PD has.
Knowing that is kinda annoying, I think, that Kaz doesn't realize about the sounds in the game. The way that sounds are reproduce in the game depending on the view is accurate, but it lacks a lot of layers to be more inmersive.
For example, the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP sounds great from the hood, but as I said before, it's just plane sound.
The thing that bother me the most is that PD actually has sound in his videos, for example:

By the way, I really like the way you said, PD can do it

I want the best for the franchise, so Kaz, you better start to listen!"

Yeah, i mean in the intro videos and in the promo videos they put realistic engine sounds...in my opinion this is like fake advertisement...why they show us that kind of things and then in the game we have nothing at all...just plain and simple GT fake engine sounds.

I have a theory that they have realistic sounds prepared for the next game but they didn´t include it in GT5 because of the other 800 Standard cars. Imagine a mix between (hypothesis) realistic engine sounds from Premium cars and Standard "GT4" engine sounds......awful for sure.

I mean the quality of the sounds in the game is amazing, you can use a 5.1 a 7.1 or whatever and the game is going to sound pretty cool...but then we don´t have what it is really needed and that are the REALISTIC noise that engines make.

I´ll say it again...SIMBIN games has the best sound in the entire market and they worked (updating) for 3 years to make sounds even better. They have a sound engineer called Anthony Monteil who makes this. I can´t wait to try their new free to race game called Race Room Racing Experience in about 2 weeks.

Again i´ll put the video:

BMW 134 Judd V8 (yes, it has/had a F1 V8 engine)




It is difficult to listen to the sound here but take a look at 2:20 more or less...you can even listen to the Aquila engine.

 

[Griffith500]

Actually, there is little wrong with a lot of the stock exhaust sounds. It's just that in many cases they're on the wrong cars. Oh, and this post wouldn't be complete without me mentioning the missing intake sounds, of course.

 

[dr_slump]

I dreamed......... GT6 with......... STANDARD AND PREMIUM SOUNDS!

Woah

 

[avens]

DLC sounds

 

[bass264]

I hope for better engine sounds, but Kaz doesn't care for how the cars sound in the game, he's more concerned about how many polygons they are composed of. The GT series has terrible engine sounds, even Need for Speed games do a better job. I'd like for the cars to sound better, but GT6 is going to have the exact cut and pasted sounds as the ones I already hear in GT5 so there's no point in hoping.

 

[Eager Snake]

Keep telling that to your deaf ears my friend.

And why you put the same thing twice in this thread?...

@Eager Snake Said:

"Exactly, but you need to remember the pace and atention to detail that PD has.
Knowing that is kinda annoying, I think, that Kaz doesn't realize about the sounds in the game. The way that sounds are reproduce in the game depending on the view is accurate, but it lacks a lot of layers to be more inmersive.
For example, the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP sounds great from the hood, but as I said before, it's just plane sound.
The thing that bother me the most is that PD actually has sound in his videos, for example:

By the way, I really like the way you said, PD can do it

I want the best for the franchise, so Kaz, you better start to listen!"

Yeah, i mean in the intro videos and in the promo videos they put realistic engine sounds...in my opinion this is like fake advertisement...why they show us that kind of things and then in the game we have nothing at all...just plain and simple GT fake engine sounds.

I have a theory that they have realistic sounds prepared for the next game but they didn´t include it in GT5 because of the other 800 Standard cars. Imagine a mix between (hypothesis) realistic engine sounds from Premium cars and Standard "GT4" engine sounds......awful for sure.

I mean the quality of the sounds in the game is amazing, you can use a 5.1 a 7.1 or whatever and the game is going to sound pretty cool...but then we don´t have what it is really needed and that are the REALISTIC noise that engines make.

I´ll say it again...SIMBIN games has the best sound in the entire market and they worked (updating) for 3 years to make sounds even better. They have a sound engineer called Anthony Monteil who makes this. I can´t wait to try their new free to race game called Race Room Racing Experience in about 2 weeks.

Again i´ll put the video:

BMW 134 Judd V8 (yes, it has/had a F1 V8 engine)




It is difficult to listen to the sound here but take a look at 2:20 more or less...you can even listen to the Aquila engine.

It was great to read, all of you guys. A lot of interesting ideas to be honest, Kaz really NEEDS to follow us.

The worst thing about the trailers?
When I saw this one back in October I was , especially at 01:23.

​

As all of you may know, I came back terribly disappointed.

 

[mikecustom]

PD are such liers, you just can't make a trailer like that and deliver something completely different, I feel ripped off

Anyway, look

This video is kind of a collage of various Racing games, and it's exciting until GT5 comes to scene

 

[Foxiol]

It was great to read, all of you guys. A lot of interesting ideas to be honest, Kaz really NEEDS to follow us.

The worst thing about the trailers?
When I saw this one back in October I was , especially at 01:23.

As all of you may know, I came back terribly disappointed.

Thanks mate the same to you.

About the video...yeah that is what i call "FAKE ADVERTISEMENT". 👎

I was as amazed as you with all those trailers...and then...

Now we are here.

@mikecustom:

That video refers to 5% of people who use cockpit view in racing games...and to me GT5 is one of the best in that aspect...the camera view is amazing, graphics.
The unique thing is the non-realistic engine sounds, but again the sound quality/fidelity is one of the best in the market , just needs what PD put in those trailers and promotional videos...(Ferrari, Acura NSX Concept and so on).

All digitally created but not realistic samples working in those sounds...just bad recreated ones is what we have.

 

[1241Penguin]

In fairness, there isn't one of those "In-Game Footage" things on the trailers.

 

[Griffith500]

I thought the trailers were obviously dubbed. It might be worth learning to recognise it for the future. The "5%" pCARS trailer, for instance, is partly dubbed - try to work out what parts.