Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Chippy569]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I say I wish Forza had the Mazdsa 6 because people buid them into race cars, and Slip immediately pounces on it, saying "It's not really a race car, (except it kind of is)." Like... you people freak me the hell out, I'm sayin'...

Anyway, I'll deal with The Kinder, Gentler Simon later, when I have some time. late for work natch.

the mazda 6 running in grand am GX class is tube-chassied and only bears a visual semblance to the stock one. Not sure if that's what you're referring to. It is gorgeous though, and makes some interesting sounds.

 

[Flash_Noddy]

Do you fools know anything about the complications of making realistic sounds? Of course they sound digitised, they are! Would half of you even recognise a more realistic sound? it's not as simple as recording real sounds and then looping them and there will always be a loss in quality as sounds get edited and tweaked. I'd love to know what games you guys think that PD should emulate that actually have realistic car sounds.

Take one ear to iRacing or Rfactor. They seem to manage with a fraction of PD's budget...

 

[Samus]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I say I wish Forza had the Mazdsa 6 because people buid them into race cars, and Slip immediately pounces on it, saying "It's not really a race car, (except it kind of is)." Like... you people freak me the hell out, I'm sayin'...

Anyway, I'll deal with The Kinder, Gentler Simon later, when I have some time. late for work natch.

What you said exactly was:

"They don't even have the Mazda 6, which is a staple of many medium range racing teams. So don't expect everyone to agree with this"

Slip simply proved to you it can hardly be considered a staple with so few teams actually using one and most of those being nothing more than shells placed over a custom chassis.

A "staple of racing teams" would be a common car used all over the world for entry level racing and up. The Mazda 6 is not one of those cars.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

PD should aspire to achieve sound simulation that's similar to this real life recording :



Nothing in virtual racing/driving game/sim sounds realistic, for me it's not just the samples, but the whole package. If the sample is accurate, but the whole experience not realistic, it's pretty much halfway done.

 

[Chippy569]

Here's a recording I made this weekend of some race cars, which are professionally recorded. The audio is uncompressed so you might want to turn up your youtube/system volume.

 

[Tenacious D]

1. How can Griffith500 answer questions specifically directed at you and things you've said?

2. So why start a debate if you don't intend to finish it?

3. Oh yes we're the big bad meanies who just wants to beat you up. Sure thing.

As for the rest I'm sorry if you're having personal issues but I would bring you back to point 2. You also seem to have had time to reply and make lengthy posts (me: on OCASSION), just ignoring any specific points asked of you.

So, how about answering some of the questions I asked here?
(pasted below)

Or maybe my reply to your point here:
(pasted below)

Both of which you just ignored in your following responses.

1. Do I really need to answer that? Or is this just more of the usual Simon needless arguing? People step into discussions all the time, and I tend to get tired of two or three posts answering the same question. On occasion I'll "ditto" something if I feel the need to add a 👍 to a topic. Otherwise I figure things have been addressed. Capiche?

2. I figure my points are clear - and usually wall of texty - enough to be understood by anyone with a reasonable grasp of the language.

3. Whatever. You seem to like to argue more than come to any sort of sharing of ideas on almost ANY topic here.

Now, about the knowledge you crave from me.

I don't need to know that, PD are Sony and Sony are PD. They are one in the same. All I need to know is that their games sells more than any other and Sony give them a huge budget to make games.

Just think for one moment how much $60 million dollars actually is. For one company making essentially one product it's a huge amount of money, a figure only dwarfed by few other studios and they're all much larger than PD.

...Care to answer it this time? Why do those first party studios making games that sell much less copies have significantly more employees? Because they're not a "family"?

Let me put it like this. You own a business which has been operating very well for decades, but for the past five years or so, you've lost money. LOTS of money, almost crippling amounts, to the point that you've had to borrow money and sell stuff to keep going. This year, you finally make a profit, but that's by selling the land attached to your home, and that profit isn't like what you made in your hayday.

How well footed are you financially? This is my answer. If you understand anything about business, you'll get it. If not, I give because you tend to argue from the abstract, which is fraught with peril when you try and get general concepts to line up with real world problems. In particular, this is how liberals usually argue, which is why I eventually walk away from them. And is also why the planet is so FARKING BROKE. "But we NEED more money or the planet won't be all awesome sauce..."

Nobody has said they're done "nothing", if they did we'd hear silence for every car. Obviously they've done something and yes, as usual if you pick out a specific car you'll find some that sound good. They're few and far between though and in your second example the person you like agreeing with has already said the samples are still wrong and recycled on that car. (me: and I did say that in a post as well, because I know how anal retentive some of you are on the subject)

What they've done is not put enough focus on the sample based system for a large number of the cars, instead just pretty much forgetting about them or leaving it to the interns as Griffith puts it.

As for your comments about RAM you realise that isn't a new theory? It's one that has been debunked several times in this thread by the fact that it doesn't matter if you have 32Mb of RAM or 16GB, if the samples are completely wrong they're going to sound completely wrong. Your point about some cars sounding good proves this, you can't have both sides of the coin in your argument.

Debunked how? I suppose someone has shown that another racer has 16 cars at once on track with full blown samples on either PS3 or X360, and each car was from different manufacturers, had different engines, different mufflers, different masses, etc. And no, you can't bring up Forza because that really WAS debunked on thousands of YouTube replays.

Besides, you're making a statement, not asking me a question. "PD is using bad samples." Well... okay. Duh, whatever. You're browbeating. As usual. I can't answer questions that aren't questions. Ask me a question you REALLY want answered, or quit wasting both our time with silly board politics.

Edit: Maybe your point is that "PD would do a better job if they hired more people or outsourced." Now that I can address.

I'd love for PD to have as many people as Santa Monica Studios or Guerilla Games. I'd also love for the world to collectively have a brain and liberals to see the light and quit being liberal, and for Obama to be in jail for dereliction of duty. Reality is what it is. Wishing changes nothing.

Outsourcing is NOT a magic bullet. In fact, the real usefulness for outsourcing is in the manufacturing sector, and in situations in which crunch time production is crucial to getting a project out the door on schedule. While some have lauded outsourcing as economical, it usually isn't, and especially in game development. Software houses have to make a profit, and their computers and employees usually aren't a bit cheaper than what a development house has itself. So take a core group from your own team, figure the budget for X time of work, add 10 - 20% or more, and you can estimate the outsourcing cost. Unless you hire a team from an underdeveloped nation like Vietnam, which a certain company does. Plus, if you recall the complaints from modders in my favorite outsourcing queen, the Forza series, cars aren't completely symmetrical, bodykit parts don't always match well, the surfaces often wreak havoc on vinyls, decals and text you're trying to apply, etc.

Apparently, Kaz isn't going to outsource squat. Besides, do you think he'd take advice from a frequently hostile person? I also saw no need to reply to this, because Griff answered them pretty well. If you didn't like his answers, I can't see you having an epiphany over mine either.

the mazda 6 running in grand am GX class is tube-chassied and only bears a visual semblance to the stock one. Not sure if that's what you're referring to. It is gorgeous though, and makes some interesting sounds.
[img (woops, piccie snip) /img]

What you said exactly was:

"They don't even have the Mazda 6, which is a staple of many medium range racing teams. So don't expect everyone to agree with this"

Slip simply proved to you it can hardly be considered a staple with so few teams actually using one and most of those being nothing more than shells placed over a custom chassis.

A "staple of racing teams" would be a common car used all over the world for entry level racing and up. The Mazda 6 is not one of those cars.

To the above, I'm wrong for using the word "staple." For pete's sake, forgive me for that heinous abuse of the reality. But, I do see a lot of teams using that model. I like that car, and I really like the race cars which result from modifying them. It's a reasonably good foundation for making a race car, which is my point. I'm unaware of very few racing leagues who use unmodified stock cars.

I will have to conclude though, Simon, that if you respond to my post in a way that sounds like you just want to start one of the usual board fights around here, get used to me not replying. I'm just not in the mood for condescending "I'm right, you're dumb" wastes of time. And now I really need to quit editing, eat, and get back to work on the house...

 

[Samus]

Let me put it like this. You own a business which has been operating very well for decades, but for the past five years or so, you've lost money. LOTS of money, almost crippling amounts, to the point that you've had to borrow money and sell stuff to keep going. This year, you finally make a profit, but that's by selling the land attached to your home, and that profit isn't like what you made in your hayday.

How well footed are you financially? This is my answer. If you understand anything about business, you'll get it. If not, I give because all you'll do is argue from the abstract as always, which is fraught with peril when you try and get general concepts to line up with real world problems. This is how liberals usually argue, which is why I eventually walk away from them.

Assuming that anecdote was referring to Sony over the past few years it doesn't really answer my question of why other Sony first party studios have up to twice the number of staff that PD do?

Also, as has been pointed out to you several times when you have brought Sony and their 'woes' up before, they were never in any serious trouble.

Debunked how? I suppose someone has shown that another racer has 16 cars at once on track with full blown samples on either PS3 or X360, and each car was from different manufacturers, had different engines, different mufflers, different masses, etc. And no, you can't bring up Forza because that really WAS debunked on thousands of YouTube replays.

Besides, you're making a statement, not asking me a question. "PD is using bad samples." Well... okay. Duh, whatever. You're browbeating. As usual. I can't answer questions that aren't questions. Ask me a question you REALLY want answered, or quit wasting both our time with silly board politics.

No that wasn't a question, it was a reply to your point that RAM is limiting the sounds. Yes, you're right it does limit the sounds but it doesn't excuse cars with the wrong samples and since you said yourself some cars sound great then RAM is not the only reason for other cars sounding bad, is it?

To the above, I'm wrong for using the word "staple." For pete's sake, forgive me for that heinous abuse of the reality. But, I do see a lot of teams using that model. I like that car, and I really like the race cars which result from modifying them. It's a reasonably good foundation for making a race car, which is my point. I'm unaware of very few racing leagues who use unmodified stock cars.

It's not just the word, you insinuated that the car should be in Forza because it's hugely popular amongst racing teams. It's really not. FWIW yes I like the car as well and would like to see it in Forza but saying that car missing is an example of T10 not getting in the most important cars in their game doesn't really work.

I will have to conclude though, Simon, that if you respond to my post in a way that sounds like you just want to start one of the usual board fights around here, get used to me not replying. I'm just not in the mood for condescending "I'm right, you're dumb" wastes of time.

I never intend to come off as fighting, condescending or trying to claim a victory. I'm simply debating points on a topic with someone on an internet discussion board. You make a point, I reply to that point, you then reply until the 'debate' reaches a conclusion. That's how it works. I'm not going to throw a party and declare myself the victor at the end of it.

 

[Tenacious D]

Assuming that anecdote was referring to Sony over the past few years it doesn't really answer my question of why other Sony first party studios have up to twice the number of staff that PD do?

Good grief, you're quick. And you're right, I answered generally. But for instance, Santa Monica Studios works on a number of things and works with other devs on their games as well. Besides, I threw a bulls eye when I said "Kaz won't outsource." And my full edited post above will appear in a minute.

Also, as has been pointed out to you several times when you have brought Sony and their 'woes' up before, they were never in any serious trouble.

If you say so. It seemed to be a pretty big deal tho the financial press, so go talk to them about it, I'm just a bureaucrat.

No that wasn't a question, it was a reply to your point that RAM is limiting the sounds. Yes, you're right it does limit the sounds but it doesn't excuse cars with the wrong samples and since you said yourself some cars sound great then RAM is not the only reason for other cars sounding bad, is it?

I know you'll love this, but I refer my friend to EXTENSIVE debates with Griffith500 you had many moments ago, and to which I side with him. If you don't like that reply, oh well.

It's not just the word, you insinuated that the car should be in Forza because it's hugely popular amongst racing teams. It's really not. FWIW yes I like the car as well and would like to see it in Forza but saying that car missing is an example of T10 not getting in the most important cars in their game doesn't really work.

I didn't say "most important." My point is that Gran Turismo is more diverse, and... get ready for it... I like cars. I want those cars. Gimme those cars.

I never intend to come off as fighting, condescending or trying to claim a victory. I'm simply debating points on a topic with someone on an internet discussion board. You make a point, I reply to that point, you then reply until the 'debate' reaches a conclusion. That's how it works. I'm not going to throw a party and declare myself the victor at the end of it.

Well... on all things Simon... we'll see.

 

[Imari]

Good grief, you're quick. And you're right, I answered generally. But for instance, Santa Monica Studios works on a number of things and works with other devs on their games as well. Besides, I threw a bulls eye when I said "Kaz won't outsource." And my full edited post above will appear in a minute.

But still, GT5 had one of the biggest budgets for a video game of all time when it was released. I'm sure it's still up there.

I can understand the not wanting to outsource, there's valid reasons for that. But if they're not going to outsource, the work has to be done by someone. There's only so much that a team of 100 or 150 or whatever they have now can do. There's only so many hours in the week.

So why can PD get by on such a small team compared to other studios? They're not limited for money to pay wages, $80 million for GT5 is not a small amount of money. It's all very well to say "it is what it is, we just have to live with it", but applying that to any problem with GT means we'd have no discussion at all.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

To the above, I'm wrong for using the word "staple." For pete's sake, forgive me for that heinous abuse of the reality. But, I do see a lot of teams using that model. I like that car, and I really like the race cars which result from modifying them. It's a reasonably good foundation for making a race car, which is my point. I'm unaware of very few racing leagues who use unmodified stock cars.

And this ties in to my original point that you're still not getting; the 6's currently in GT5 have very seldom been the basis of a race car; I found a sole one thanks to your not-an-answer GIS results, that raced in the Koni Challenge. Whether the road car Mazda6 makes a good foundation for a racing car is irrelevant when talking about the car campaigning in Grand Am races, because that car is not based on the 6. It's based on an entirely unrelated chassis, with an engine based on one we'll eventually get for the road car driving the other end of the car. The body is a carbonfibre facsimile, but the 6 is as related to the road car as a Nascar "Fusion" is to it's general public version. I don't think you'd make the argument that one can simply modify the road car to run at the ovals... right?

Besides, even if those badass diesel rear-drive 6's were based on the road car, considering the third-gen isn't in GT5, the point is moot

I will have to conclude though, Simon, that if you respond to my post in a way that sounds like you just want to start one of the usual board fights around here, get used to me not replying. I'm just not in the mood for condescending "I'm right, you're dumb" wastes of time. And now I really need to quit editing, eat, and get back to work on the house...

Opinions are one thing. "I'm satisfied with decade-old assets" can't be wrong - I just don't really understand that level of settling, is all. Like Simon said, I was only commenting on the misrepresentation of the 6 as anything resembling a "staple", or even reasonably popular, in production-based racing.

It's not just the word, you insinuated that the car should be in Forza because it's hugely popular amongst racing teams. It's really not. FWIW yes I like the car as well and would like to see it in Forza but saying that car missing is an example of T10 not getting in the most important cars in their game doesn't really work.

Considering the bad-ass rear drive diesel 6 is in neither series, I want it in both .

I never intend to come off as fighting, condescending or trying to claim a victory. I'm simply debating points on a topic with someone on an internet discussion board. You make a point, I reply to that point, you then reply until the 'debate' reaches a conclusion. That's how it works. I'm not going to throw a party and declare myself the victor at the end of it.

Which, I'll restate, was why I brought up the error of the 6. Well, actually, D brought it up in the thread...

and to tie this all back, Imari raises an excellent point; if the RAM can be blamed for the bad-sounding (or completely inaccurate) sounds of some cars, how do we have the good ones? Genuine question.

 

[Tornado]

To the above, I'm wrong for using the word "staple." For pete's sake, forgive me for that heinous abuse of the reality. But, I do see a lot of teams using that model. I like that car, and I really like the race cars which result from modifying them. It's a reasonably good foundation for making a race car, which is my point. I'm unaware of very few racing leagues who use unmodified stock cars.

An outsourced tube frame chassis carried over from the old Mazda RX-8 race car, this time with a carbon fiber body that looks like a Mazda6 instead, isn't a modified Mazda6. And I know you were aware of that, because you were told several times that it wasn't.



Also:

But, I do see a lot of teams using that model.

If "a lot of teams" means 3, sure.




Or put another way:

You made a claim (the Mazda6 was such a widespread car in motorsports that it's a notable exclusion from Forza's car list). You put a half-assed attempt to support (a Google images link). It was pointed out that the link didn't actually support the claim (since it showed the exact same cars that you were told it would). Then you kept changing the subject to find a reason why the original statement was still true rather than admit that, no, it wasn't.


Though it's pretty interesting, since you just tried to get a dig in not 4 posts ago over this exact thing:

Yes dear, I stand corrected - strangely, this is something I never hear from you when I'm right.

What's very interesting now is that you've devolved into following the Zer0 textbook for debates (Claim something, fail to support it, claim you're being persecuted because of who you are rather than the nonsense you said, then bring the claim up again later in a completely unrelated thread. Rinse, wash, repeat).

 

[Samus]

I know you'll love this, but I refer my friend to EXTENSIVE debates with Griffith500 you had many moments ago, and to which I side with him. If you don't like that reply, oh well.

No because you're not answering the point you personally made.

You said, and I quote:

I personally won't mind if the sounds are just ported over from GT5, but I don't expect it. And those who think PD's sound team hasn't done squat for the game really need to listen to a replay of a NASCAR car. Particularly from roof cam. For those of you who don't like roof cam in-race, watch a replay from roof view, and in particular at race end as the car idles down. The sounds it makes as it slows to a coast are amazing. Or the Honda HSV, try that.

Ok, you think those two cars sound great. Whether I agree or not is irellevent, you think they're good sounds. You then say this:

But those expecting a quantum jump in exhaust quality along with the DLC, I doubt you're going to see that on PS3. Bring up PC sims, that's fine, but it's apples and Volvos. I sincerely doubt many PC gaming rigs have 256 megs of ram, and the car list is paltry compared to GT5. I think the only real comparison you can make is that dreaded F-word game on XB360.

So don't you see how those statements contradict? If certain cars sound amazing using 256Mb of RAM why do other cars sound like ass? I'll tell you why, because as your friend Griffith has already said PD have used the wrong or poor quality sound samples. Yes low amounts of RAM means we'll never have a big full sound engine on PS3 but if some cars can sound great so can others. PD just chose not to focus on them.

I didn't say "most important." My point is that Gran Turismo is more diverse, and... get ready for it... I like cars. I want those cars. Gimme those cars.

I'm not going to get into that argument because it's for the vs thread but I really don't see how overall GT5 is more diverse. Not at all.

 

[Tenacious D]

(boiled down..) It's all very well to say "it is what it is, we just have to live with it", but applying that to any problem with GT means we'd have no discussion at all.

Yeah... I know, I'm on that, it's the general meme and has been since GT3 days. And I don't want to squash discussion though sometimes it seems like it. We need something to talk about while we sit on our hands and they get sore waiting, so it might as well be problems. Especially since I'm forgetting that the more we complain about issues, the more likely PD will tend to them.

Quick points, since I'm getting sore moving around my late mom's antique furniture and I'm dying for sleep. "Quick" usually meaning a page or so. Anyhow, that quickness...

You can blame some of their "lazy attitude" on sound on fans like me who aren't as fussed about accurate roaring engine noise as we are superb physics and lots of those darn cars to race and modify.

The budget: we're all guessing how much PD actually gets. It could be money for the usual bills (payroll, rent, equipment etc), and then SONY writes checks for specific projects (fly to Ascari for data collection, record the Jeep used in the show Safari, etc). I suspect that new hires are part of that SONY approval thing. And I know that Simon didn't care for my "I prefer Kaz's 'family' team approach," but... well, that's my view.

Someone has to do it: on that, Griff and I are optimistic. He is right that the raw sample recordings are likely great and just need to be polished properly. We'll have to see on that. I will say that after listening to the Race Room video a few times, I've fallen in love with them, and nothing else sounds nearly as cool. I'm not sure that the recordings PD has on file are of that quality. But I think that PD should be able to produce comparable results to GTR and Forza with some careful trimming, layering and splicing. Which as Griff says is a bear to get right.

I suspect that while there will be a general overall improvement, there will be two tiers of sound like we had in GT5, and there will be Premium sounds and not quite as good Standard sounds.

I want to head over to the news thread because I caught mention of a news blurb about GamesCom but couldn't sit around and read it. And one more thing.

I never intend to come off as fighting, condescending or trying to claim a victory. I'm simply debating points on a topic with someone on an internet discussion board. You make a point, I reply to that point, you then reply until the 'debate' reaches a conclusion. That's how it works. I'm not going to throw a party and declare myself the victor at the end of it.

Okay bro, peace. I'm going to try, really try, and not get huffy if I think you're being snotty with me. None of the others either; Tor, Slip, LMSVette etc. I thought about it as I was driving over to the house that it's just crazy to think that people get joy out of meanness. I know people do, but... hey, I do want to expect the best from the human race. I don't want to be the misathrope I am, so I'll try and save that vexation for the party of our current dictator.

 

[Imari]

The budget: we're all guessing how much PD actually gets. It could be money for the usual bills (payroll, rent, equipment etc), and then SONY writes checks for specific projects (fly to Ascari for data collection, record the Jeep used in the show Safari, etc). I suspect that new hires are part of that SONY approval thing. And I know that Simon didn't care for my "I prefer Kaz's 'family' team approach," but... well, that's my view.

We know the budget was at least $60 million (because they said so, and that was 2009), and there's evidence it was more like $80 million by the end of the project. Whether that's all inclusive or Sony deals with certain aspects on top of that is a reasonable question, but at least that much money was spent making GT5.

I don't see how you can have that much money, and not be able to afford more staff. I don't see where all the money goes to be honest, when stuff like pCARS is being done for ~5-6 million Euro.

 

[NanoSaibou]

Imo Criterion's Need for speed Most wanted had really really good car sounds

 

[Samus]

And I know that Simon didn't care for my "I prefer Kaz's 'family' team approach," but... well, that's my view.

I still wonder how you actually know that. You said in a previous post that Kaz "hand picks" his employees. What source do you have for that? Also how is any company not a 'family'? They're all working together towards the same single goal and have to work together day in, day out. If PD are a family what are T10, a bunch of robotic drones?

 

[machschnel]

We know the budget was at least $60 million (because they said so, and that was 2009), and there's evidence it was more like $80 million by the end of the project. Whether that's all inclusive or Sony deals with certain aspects on top of that is a reasonable question, but at least that much money was spent making GT5.

I don't see how you can have that much money, and not be able to afford more staff. I don't see where all the money goes to be honest, when stuff like pCARS is being done for ~5-6 million Euro.

Could it be that Polyphony are just really bad at managing their finances?

$60 million is a hell of a lot of money, especially when you consider MGS4 cost less.

 

[Imari]

Could it be that Polyphony are just really bad at managing their finances?

It could be.

In which case, they have a serious problem. Much bigger in fact than sounds or anything else. The sounds and everything else would be simply a symptom of the underlying illness, the inability to properly manage their finances.

I'm not even sure really how anyone would start going about collecting evidence for that theory though, without a daring midnight ninja raid on the PD accounting offices.

 

[MarcoM]

Imo Criterion's Need for speed Most wanted had really really good car sounds

I fully support this. Whenever I start any car in Most wanted and pull away, goosebumps.

That's what you should get from car sounds.

 

[Tenacious D]

Could it be that Polyphony are just really bad at managing their finances?

$60 million is a hell of a lot of money, especially when you consider MGS4 cost less.

One, I think it's far more likely that armchair accountants with no real info to go on are wildly wrong.

Second, apples and pistachios, since I doubt that Konami licensed 1200 weapon systems. And even if they did, I sincerely doubt the price tag is anywhere as expensive.

 

[Imari]

Second, apples and pistachios, since I doubt that Konami licensed 1200 weapon systems. And even if they did, I sincerely doubt the price tag is anywhere as expensive.

This is an interesting one. I've tried a couple of times to find out roughly how much it might cost for licenses for a game like GT. Either I'm looking in the wrong places or the information doesn't exist publically.

Probably a bit of both.

It's also not entirely straightforward. Some manufacturers will probably give the license away. Others might trade, include these current models from our lineup and you can take what you like from the historic catalogue. Others (Ferrari and Porsche at least) will cost money. How many in each category? We'll never really know, barring a detour into the licensing offices during our midnight ninja raid.

You can get a bit of a feel for the most it could possibly cost by looking at the budgets and car lists for other games. But budget information is hard to come across for any game(that $60 million comment from Kaz was very unusual for a developer).

Honestly, I strongly suspect that a lot of the "consumer" manufacturers won't be costing PD a cent, simply because of the advertising factor. If I was Nissan, Honda, Ford, etc. I'd be more than happy with the advertising of having my cars in a game of GTs calibre and reach. Probably smaller "boutique" manufacturers like TVR too. I suspect the supercars/halo cars cost PD money, because Lamborghini and friends don't need the advertising but having them adds substantially to the appeal of the game. But that's merely my theory based on what I would do if I was a car manufacturer marketing guy (which I'm not). I have no hard evidence to back that up in any way.

I know we have game devs on the boards. If anyone has any experience with this sort of thing and could shed some light, it would be very, very interesting.

 

[Tornado]

One, I think it's far more likely that armchair accountants with no real info to go on are wildly wrong.

Second, apples and pistachios, since I doubt that Konami licensed 1200 weapon systems. And even if they did, I sincerely doubt the price tag is anywhere as expensive.

It's like some sort of split personality disorder. And "real info" to base that conclusion on? How much money do you think, say, Nissan charges Sony to feature their cars when they otherwise seem to fall over themselves to work with PD; including being the principle partner in GT Academy?

 

[Zer0]

Some manufacturers will probably give the license away. Others might trade, include these current models from our lineup and you can take what you like from the historic catalogue. Others (Ferrari and Porsche at least) will cost money. How many in each category? We'll never really know, barring a detour into the licensing offices during our midnight ninja raid.

Honestly, I strongly suspect that a lot of the "consumer" manufacturers won't be costing PD a cent, simply because of the advertising factor. If I was Nissan, Honda, Ford, etc. I'd be more than happy with the advertising of having my cars in a game of GTs calibre and reach. Probably smaller "boutique" manufacturers like TVR too. I suspect the supercars/halo cars cost PD money, because Lamborghini and friends don't need the advertising but having them adds substantially to the appeal of the game. But that's merely my theory based on what I would do if I was a car manufacturer marketing guy (which I'm not). I have no hard evidence to back that up in any way.

I know we have game devs on the boards. If anyone has any experience with this sort of thing and could shed some light, it would be very, very interesting.

http://issuu.com/usplaystationmag/docs/pschronicle01_11

 

[Imari]

http://issuu.com/usplaystationmag/docs/pschronicle01_11

Very nice, I hadn't read that interview. Thanks Zero.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

http://issuu.com/usplaystationmag/docs/pschronicle01_11

Wow I forgot about that one. Thanks.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's like some sort of split personality disorder. And "real info" to base that conclusion on? How much money do you think, say, Nissan charges Sony to feature their cars when they otherwise seem to fall over themselves to work with PD; including being the principle partner in GT Academy?

I'd like to know the answer to this, since the GT Academy drivers seem almost like Nissan payroll drivers. Look at V8 supercars and Nismo Altimas for a certain race this year and who is driving.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Some people in this thread went on saying that the FM4 isn't a good example in the sound department. Well, It is waaay better then GT5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp24ZKuFGbU

It is not perfect, but it's very close to the real ting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzI93pMhaLM

Also, the simple fact that FM4 has cars like that, up to date through DLCs, is something that I would like to have in the next GT.

 

[Griffith500]

Not sure what you mean - at least the sound of the engine still decent IMO, I can make engine have higher rev range, for example : I can make my Devil Z replica revs/red line from the usual 7600rpm to close to 9000rpm, my RUF CTR Blackbird can also be tuned to have peak HP at 8000+rpm and redline at close to 9000+rpm ( original engine no swap ). The Supra MA70 550+HP Gr. A have redline close to 9000rpm as well, nothing sounded weird ... what do you mean by weird ?

There's another cool thing too, when I put twin turbo kit on certain cars - for example my Ferrari 512BB, it produces more sound details that convince the driver an actual turbo is installed ( not just bov sound ), not sure how to put it, it just sounds gorgeous in cockpit view - use original engine, strictly sports exhaust - no sure why, but in GT5, turbo engine have more effects in sports exhaust - it gives that popping sound when releasing throttle quickly, blipping on downshift


Add me : GTP_Orido to try these cars, I have several replicas, Devil Z, Blackbird, the Gobstoppers WRX, TT 512BB, Gr. A MA70 Supra ( WRC and Touring )

I'm still rocking 2.11, but I'll definitely try it out. I suppose I haven't actually done all that much "tuning" in GT5 compared to previous games, if I'm honest. I'll try those exact cars and see what happens ("soon").

But, to be clear, I wasn't saying that changing the rpm will automatically make things sound weird, only that you have to account for that with your samples (and definitely with the control scheme / settings, which is where the "weirdness" would come from).
Being able to change the speed range makes it harder to allocate samples - presumably the stock sounds weren't recorded above stock rev-limit, for instance, so they'd almost certainly be stretched (even more than they already are) above that point. That's just extra pitch-shifting "goodness", but the further you push it, the sillier it sounds.

For something like overrevving, say by selecting the wrong gear, it's possible to do some very silly things, though, so samples can be a pain for that, if it's important to model it properly (but GT doesn't really do "damage"). But it's likely that overrevving will occur to a small extent during braking from over-zealous downshifts, and that affects engine braking, so it should be in.

Regarding the turbo sounds, it's probably just because the sports exhaust is quieter, so they can still be heard over it. I don't know why the turbo sounds are generally so quiet - but it's the same for other sounds, too (like the "pops" accompanying the flame graphics from the exhausts)

Here's a recording I made this weekend of some race cars, which are professionally recorded. The audio is uncompressed so you might want to turn up your youtube/system volume.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb3g7ivEMAY

Nice, open (in terms of dynamic range) recordings like this show that spatial effects are really important. If a sound sounds "big" just from the spatial character it imparts, you might not need to make it sound "big" via other means...
Nice, broad range of sounds in that vid, too. I like the (loud, NA) flatplane V8 prototype (don't follow sportscar racing!), the slightly flat and hollow exhaust sound contrasting with one of the best intake sounds of any engine configuration.

 

[JosVerstappen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0voR86MVaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luLKWgSY-VA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-MwyVlLmvI

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@ Griffith500 : I posted at hybrid showcase thread, I made Acura NSX Twin Turbo with 11000rpm redline and also have 800HP version which has 14000rpm redline, it has higher pitch but I like how it sounds, almost like formula engine I use C32B engine from NA2 NSX.

The 512BB and Miura Twin Turbo seems to have extra sound detail, there's a hint of fuel pump noise or some kind of valve noise on mid range rpm when applying throttle, not sure if the stock non turbo has it too, both are on sports exhaust, installing racing or semi racing kills the extra sound details - gone