Global Warming/Climate Change Discussion Thread

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Which of the following statements best reflects your views on Global Warming?


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That doesn't seem to be the point at all. More that they are situated closer to pollution causing factories and such, and that is in turn what is racist.
Racism generally means treating one race different than another based on imagined differences between them. I can't find a direct connection between the emission of greenhouse gases and the treating blacks as inferior.
 
Racism generally means treating one race different than another based on imagined differences between them. I can't find a direct connection between the emission of greenhouse gases and the treating blacks as inferior.
That's because they aren't calling global warming or greenhouse gases racist. My understanding garnered from that article is that they are calling the fact that they are "relegated" to ghettos close to polluting factories, they are being discriminated against.
 
That doesn't seem to be the point at all. More that they are situated closer to pollution causing factories and such, and that is in turn what is racist.

That's because they aren't calling global warming or greenhouse gases racist. My understanding garnered from that article is that they are calling the fact that they are "relegated" to ghettos close to polluting factories, they are being discriminated against.

Yea, that's what we do. We take minorities and force them to be poor and live near pollution. That's why the ghettos here are full of Asians and Indians. Because we hate us some minorities. Ever seen an Indian doctor or engineer? I didn't think so. Ever seen an Asian doctor or engineer? Yea, me neither. We also never let go of the past - which is why the Japanese in the US cannot catch a break with the cops... still haven't let go of World War II.

BLM needs to STHU.

Guess how anyone ever gets out of the ghetto... education. Kids getting a good education with parents who put a strong emphasis on it. That's why you never see Asian engineers. Asians, as a community, just don't put enough emphasis on education. Guess how nobody ever gets out of the ghetto... by pointing fingers at someone else.

Edit: Sarcasm tags added in the spoiler area below.

[sarcasm]
Yea, that's what we do. We take minorities and force them to be poor and live near pollution. That's why the ghettos here are full of Asians and Indians. Because we hate us some minorities. Ever seen an Indian doctor or engineer? I didn't think so. Ever seen an Asian doctor or engineer? Yea, me neither. We also never let go of the past - which is why the Japanese in the US cannot catch a break with the cops... still haven't let go of World War II. [/sarcasm]

BLM needs to STHU.

Guess how anyone ever gets out of the ghetto... education. Kids getting a good education with parents who put a strong emphasis on it. [sarcasm] That's why you never see Asian engineers. Asians, as a community, just don't put enough emphasis on education. [/sarcasm] Guess how nobody ever gets out of the ghetto... by pointing fingers at someone else.
 
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I didn't say it was my point Danoff. It's the articles. Which wasn't trying to make the point Johnny was portraying it as. That's all I was pointing out...
 
Yea, that's what we do. We take minorities and force them to be poor and live near pollution. That's why the ghettos here are full of Asians and Indians. Because we hate us some minorities. Ever seen an Indian doctor or engineer? I didn't think so. Ever seen an Asian doctor or engineer? Yea, me neither. We also never let go of the past - which is why the Japanese in the US cannot catch a break with the cops... still haven't let go of World War II.

BLM needs to STHU.

Guess how anyone ever gets out of the ghetto... education. Kids getting a good education with parents who put a strong emphasis on it. That's why you never see Asian engineers. Asians, as a community, just don't put enough emphasis on education. Guess how nobody ever gets out of the ghetto... by pointing fingers at someone else.
I'm Chinese. I have family in China and I completely disagree. All of my Indian friends are also the top in our classes. MIT and other Ivy League schools are filled with Asians and Indians. The Asians who immigrate to the US are moving here for the education and a better opportunity. The Asian immigrants work their asses off for their kids to have a better life. The majority of them are somewhat rich and have been really arrogant, but my family and many others came here with almost nothing and look where we are now.
 
I'm Chinese. I have family in China and I completely disagree. All of my Indian friends are also the top in our classes. MIT and other Ivy League schools are filled with Asians and Indians. The Asians who immigrate to the US are moving here for the education and a better opportunity. The Asian immigrants work their asses off for their kids to have a better life. The majority of them are somewhat rich and have been really arrogant, but my family and many others came here with almost nothing and look where we are now.
I could be mistaken... But I think he was saying that in sarcasm... At least, that's the way it sounded in my head.
 
I didn't say it was my point Danoff. It's the articles. Which wasn't trying to make the point Johnny was portraying it as. That's all I was pointing out...
You didn't say it was your point, but in order for it to be racism it would have to true or something close to it would have to be true wouldn't it?
 
You didn't say it was your point, but in order for it to be racism it would have to true or something close to it would have to be true wouldn't it?

No, not in a direct sense, I don't think so. Perhaps by some stretched correlation. The point, at least from the article, is that somehow blacks are forced by the system to live in area's surrounding industrial zones, there by making them more susceptible to the afflictions caused by poor air and water quality and pollution in general. The implication is that the housing is the issue, not climate change...
That would be a ridiculous claim for sure. A better argument would be that industrialization is racist more than climate change. That at least has some tangible quantitatives.
 
I could be mistaken... But I think he was saying that in sarcasm... At least, that's the way it sounded in my head.

I'm Chinese. I have family in China and I completely disagree. All of my Indian friends are also the top in our classes. MIT and other Ivy League schools are filled with Asians and Indians. The Asians who immigrate to the US are moving here for the education and a better opportunity. The Asian immigrants work their asses off for their kids to have a better life. The majority of them are somewhat rich and have been really arrogant, but my family and many others came here with almost nothing and look where we are now.

It was highly sarcastic. I took it as a given that people would recognize that it is stereotypical of Asian and Indian people living in the US to be in high paying jobs.
 
It was highly sarcastic. I took it as a given that people would recognize that it is stereotypical of Asian and Indian people living in the US to be in high paying jobs.
Oh :lol: I only responded because someone brought your post to my attention.
 
That's fine... just pointing out that their point is wrong.
Is it wrong though, sorry this is completely off topic, but, there were once, not so long ago in America's past, laws and policies that kept black people, well, really anyone not white, from buying homes in certain areas. This forced people not white to buy in areas that had trouble infrastructure, next to large industrial sites, etc. Basically, the area's white people deemed subgrade. Most black people "moved here" long before affirmative action. That's not necessarily the case of many other hyphen Americans.
Without getting to far off topic, a case could be made that being stuck on these areas where air pollution and such are causing health issues is indeed a symptom of racism.
 
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Wait, wait, wait, there's something about this that's still unclear to me...

What. On. Earth is BLM doing in the UK, and what do they expect to achieve over there? :crazy:
 
Global warming is racist
Of course it is - anyone with a basic grasp of physics knows that darker objects absorb more heat, ergo white people are not bearing their fair share of the increased heat energy burden due to global climate change. Indeed, some people - particularly in the Aberdeenshire region of Scotland - are so white that they are being actively encouraged by climate change activists to sunbathe naked in order to increase the 'albedo effect' - or as it is known in Scotland, the 'Aberdeen-o effect'. Unfortunately, just as the burkini issue has caused trouble in France (where French gendarmes have been witnessed forcing Muslim sunbathers to undress on the beaches of Nice), the sight of naked, milk-bottle white Aberdonians is causing scuffles, with police being forced to intervene in certain cases to force people to put their clothes and burkinis back on. Ironically, Aberdeen (in the north east of Scotland) is one of the few places in the world where global warming is sorely needed - but, alas, not at the expense of common decency. The potential rise in tourist numbers in Aberdeen due to a slightly warmer climate (i.e. rain instead of snow) is more than offset by the numbers of tourists abandoning the region in their droves due to the increased threat of witnessing an Aberdonian woman in the nude.
 
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Is it wrong though, sorry this is completely off topic, but, there were once, not so long ago in America's past, laws and policies that kept black people, well, really anyone not white, from buying homes in certain areas.

Citation needed. Not because I don't believe you, but because I don't know what you're talking about. We had laws preventing anyone but white men from owning land prior to the civil war, but I don't think you're talking about that. If you're poking at Jim Crow or Black Codes in southern states, I'll point you right back to my example of the Japanese during WWII. We didn't just have racial bias against the Japanese, we ran them out of their homes and put them in internment camps. How on Earth did they recover from that?

This forced people not white to buy in areas that had trouble infrastructure, next to large industrial sites, etc. Basically, the area's white people deemed subgrade. Most black people "moved here" long before affirmative action. That's not necessarily the case of many other hyphen Americans.
Without getting to far off topic, a case could be made that being stuck on these areas where air pollution and such are causing health issues is indeed a symptom of racism.

Nope. A case cannot be made. Not only that, a case should not be made. Excuses are the reason people stay poor. Trust me, I'm related to some never-ending excuses.
 
Citation needed. Not because I don't believe you, but because I don't know what you're talking about. We had laws preventing anyone but white men from owning land prior to the civil war, but I don't think you're talking about that. If you're poking at Jim Crow or Black Codes in southern states, I'll point you right back to my example of the Japanese during WWII. We didn't just have racial bias against the Japanese, we ran them out of their homes and put them in internment camps. How on Earth did they recover from that?



Nope. A case cannot be made. Not only that, a case should not be made. Excuses are the reason people stay poor. Trust me, I'm related to some never-ending excuses.
I will certainly come back with some citations on what I'm getting at, but yes, it would certainly have been during the Jim Crow era. I'd also point out that the troubles that Japanese Americans happened to have were done after WWII for the most part. As to how they melded back into society better than blacks, I'm thinking that is a many faceted issue. I do not think they had/have quite as much inner conflict amongst their own, nor did they have continued governement interference in their daily lives. I mean I don't believe that Japanese Americans had the CIA pushing crack in their neighborhoods. While I certainly cannot argue that apathy is likely a reason a number of poor people stay poor, I do not believe it is the only reason, or that it applies to every poor person. That completely ignores real social issues, family problems, access to education and the alike that also can play a part.
Anyway, more on all that in a bit. I actually have work to do for a change, so I can't get super detailed just yet.
 
I will certainly come back with some citations on what I'm getting at, but yes, it would certainly have been during the Jim Crow era. I'd also point out that the troubles that Japanese Americans happened to have were done after WWII for the most part. As to how they melded back into society better than blacks, I'm thinking that is a many faceted issue. I do not think they had/have quite as much inner conflict amongst their own, nor did they have continued governement interference in their daily lives.

Excuses.

I mean I don't believe that Japanese Americans had the CIA pushing crack in their neighborhoods.

Excuses.

While I certainly cannot argue that apathy is likely a reason a number of poor people stay poor, I do not believe it is the only reason, or that it applies to every poor person. That completely ignores real social issues, family problems, access to education and the alike that also can play a part.

Excuses.


They have access to education. What they need is a lack of excuses. No excuses = Japanese people after WWII working hard to re-integrate and be successful. They had every reason to make excuses and went the other way. Excuses result in not just a lack of action (why try when the system is rigged against you), but anger and violence at your perceived oppressors.
 
Danoff, I would love to continue this debate. Perhaps though we can move it over to the America thread. I think we are getting to far and away from the original topic here.
 
XKCD has a global warming chart today that seems to completely invent a trend from 2000 to 2016 where there isn't really one. Then extrapolates to doom by 2100 based on a trend that's made up. Why do people do this? There is a rapid temperature increase from 1900 to 2016, why pretend that 2000 to 2016 isn't flat?
 
Meh, the vast majority of the global warming discussion seems to revolve around people figuring out how to "interpret" numbers so that they fit their pre-determined conclusions.
 
XKCD has a global warming chart today that seems to completely invent a trend from 2000 to 2016 where there isn't really one. Then extrapolates to doom by 2100 based on a trend that's made up. Why do people do this? There is a rapid temperature increase from 1900 to 2016, why pretend that 2000 to 2016 isn't flat?

To be fair, I don't think you can be entirely accurate when hand-drawing with a marker (or a stylus with a marker brush selected).

And the start point (at 2000) and endpoint (at 2016) roughly match the 0.4 degree rise between 2000 and 2016 shown on most graphs, considering the scale is 1 degree per bar. It only looks more dramatic because the time scale is so drastically compressed.
 
To be fair, I don't think you can be entirely accurate when hand-drawing with a marker (or a stylus with a marker brush selected).

And the start point (at 2000) and endpoint (at 2016) roughly match the 0.4 degree rise between 2000 and 2016 shown on most graphs, considering the scale is 1 degree per bar. It only looks more dramatic because the time scale is so drastically compressed.

What 0.4 degree rise are you talking about? There is 0 rise during that period.

http://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/9/

Edit:

It looks like my link may be missing 2015 (hard to tell). If that's what the 0.4 degree rise is based on, it's based on a single year in a 16 year time period.... which is bad science. There's a big run up from 1900 to 2000. 2000 to 2014 is basically flat. 2015 came in hot.
 
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The sources are cited in the comic margin. IPCC and HadCRUT4 data (for the most recent temperatures, I assume).

Data3.png


There wasn't zero rise from 2000-2014. If you're counting from 1998, yes, the rise was minimal, but that's only because of the massive temperature spike due to the unprecedented El Niño of that year. 2000 was a relatively cold year in relation. I guess the problem is that he simply connected the dots from 2000-2015 with a straight line instead of a more accurately wiggly one.

It's also hard to tell if the rise he shows is 0.4 or 0.3 or 0.25... the danger, I guess, of trying to plot data with a (virtual) felt-tip marker. Either way, though, it's roughly accurate... though the "current path" projection is contentious.
 
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The sources are cited in the comic margin. IPCC and HadCRUT4 data (for the most recent temperatures, I assume).

Data3.png


There wasn't zero rise from 2000-2014. If you're counting from 1998, yes, the rise was minimal, but that's only because of the massive temperature spike due to the unprecedented El Niño of that year. 2000 was a relatively cold year in relation. I guess the problem is that he simply connected the dots from 2000-2015 with a straight line instead of a more accurately wiggly one.

It's also hard to tell if the rise he shows is 0.4 or 0.3 or 0.25... the danger, I guess, of trying to plot data with a (virtual) felt-tip marker. Either way, though, it's roughly accurate... though the "current path" projection is contentious.

Yes there is. I mean, if you're talking strictly starting point to ending point, maybe not, but that would be an absurd way to look at the data. 2000 to 2014 shows nothing. But fine, let's go back to 1998 (because it just makes my case stronger in every way). Then you have a flat period of 16 years. Where is that in his chart?

See, the problem is, if he includes a flat trend from 1998 to 2014 it makes it almost impossible for him to draw a super scary line out to 2100 - which is the whole point of the comic.
 
Yes there is. I mean, if you're talking strictly starting point to ending point, maybe not, but that would be an absurd way to look at the data. 2000 to 2014 shows nothing. But fine, let's go back to 1998 (because it just makes my case stronger in every way). Then you have a flat period of 16 years. Where is that in his chart?

See, the problem is, if he includes a flat trend from 1998 to 2014 it makes it almost impossible for him to draw a super scary line out to 2100 - which is the whole point of the comic.

No one (no one honest, at least) draws a trend starting at 1998. As it was an El Nino year... an anomaly within the anomaly.

I agree, though, that the chart should have showed the flattening of the curve from 2001 onwards... but since he chose 2000 (apparently) as a data point to plot the graph from, that's the result. Should have simply gone with a three year moving average for each data point if he wanted to smooth it.
 
No one (no one honest, at least) draws a trend starting at 1998. As it was an El Nino year... an anomaly within the anomaly.

I agree, though, that the chart should have showed the flattening of the curve from 2001 onwards...

1998 onward. He starts at 20,000 BCE, 1998 is in the chart.

but since he chose 2000 (apparently) as a data point to plot the graph from, that's the result. Should have simply gone with a three year moving average for each data point if he wanted to smooth it.

No, that's not the result of putting a line at 2000. Where is the flattening in his chart? Nowhere. He should finish with a long flat line, and instead it ramps up faster than ever into his projection. It doesn't come anywhere near the data. He's putting a trend where none exists to make a point he shouldn't be making. The ramp up is 1900 to 1998, but it prevents him from drawing a wild projection.
 
upload_2016-9-14_15-53-28.png

Source

This doesn't exactly flatten out after 1998 (red dot is 2015). I think you are putting too much thought behind a comic. In any case, there are projections made by slightly more credible scientific institutions than XKCD that are pretty similar to that graph.
 
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