GP of China!

[Danoff]

That's quite fascinating, but it doesn't explain all the better finishes by Tonio....
Missing out vitals stats, like points, average qualifying and average finishing position?

You said yourself that Speed finished ahead of Liuzzi more than the other way around. And they did include championship standing (points).

 

[Danny]

You said yourself that Speed finished ahead of Liuzzi more than the other way around. And they did include championship standing (points).

Yes, in 2007. I am taking into account both seasons (you seem to have skirted around the issue of 2006).

What I'm contesting is the statement that Speed consistently outperformed Liuzzi.

 

[Danoff]

Yes, in 2007. I am taking into account both seasons (you seem to have skirted around the issue of 2006).

What I'm contesting is the statement that Speed consistently outperformed Liuzzi.

Ok, let's say he consistently outperformed Liuzzi in the season during which he was fired.

 

[Danny]

Ok, let's say he consistently outperformed Liuzzi in the season during which he was fired.

Ok, let's narrow it down to the season in which your arguement could be correct.

Consistent (adjective)
always (acting, thinking or happening) according to the same rules or principles; the same or regular
Example: He was consistent in his attitude; a consistent style of writing

But he didn't always outperform Tonio. He did it 3 times out of 5 in the races and 4 times out of 10 in qualifying.

 

[Danoff]

But he didn't always outperform Tonio. He did it 3 times out of 5 in the races and 4 times out of 10 in qualifying.

I didn't say he "always" outperformed. Ok, how about this. He typically, or usually outperformed his team mate. Better?

 

[Danny]

I didn't say he "always" outperformed.

I understood that to be part and parcel of using "consistently". And dictionary .com seems to agree.

Ok, how about this. He typically, or usually outperformed his team mate. Better?

In relation to the 2007 season (well, the 10 races he competed in. There's no way to determine whether or not Tonio would have kicked his ass in the remaining races) and discounting qualifying, that could be a viably arguable point.








Just.


I like both Tonio and Speed, arguing the case for one over the other is like choosing which child you like more.

 

[daan]

I like both Tonio and Speed, arguing the case for one over the other is like choosing which child you like more.

Or like arguing whether a chocolate fireguard is better or worse than a chocolate teapot.

 

[Danoff]

I like both Tonio and Speed, arguing the case for one over the other is like choosing which child you like more.

Except that in this case you can use many meaningful statistics and unemotionally come to a clear decision about which driver is more talented - as we do with every other formula 1 team.

 

[peterjford]

Except that in this case you can use many meaningful statistics and unemotionally come to a clear decision about which driver is more talented - as we do with every other formula 1 team.

Bah! What fun would that be. You can keep your meaningful statistics, I vote for Liuzzi, his fans have a name for themselves, Liuzzites, how cool is that!?

 

[MustangSVT]

That video was funny. The spanish commentators just talked fast as heck. They were very excited!

 

[Danny]

Except that in this case you can use many meaningful statistics and unemotionally come to a clear decision about which driver is more talented - as we do with every other formula 1 team.

Hardly a clear decision though.

Interesting to note that in order to prove you're point, we're discounting all the evidence that proves the contrary.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Actually, everyone in Spain is mocking of the commentators...

[YOUTUBE VIDEO]

Basically the same in slow-mo, like if they were drunk. If you only were spanish to laugh at this... XD

"Puuueeedddeeee eeessstarrrrrr aaquiiiii eeelll miiiiillaaaagrrrrooooooooooo ..."


I'm not spanish, but ...

 

[darkfinal]

"Puuueeedddeeee eeessstarrrrrr aaquiiiii eeelll miiiiillaaaagrrrrooooooooooo ..."


I'm not spanish, but ...

SANGANCHAO! SANGANCHAO!!

 

[Danoff]

Interesting to note that in order to prove you're point, we're discounting all the evidence that proves the contrary.

Interesting that you think somehow 2006 numbers are more relevant than '07.

 

[Danny]

I reckon they're as relevant, what with them being the drivers in question in the same car for a whole season.

Oh, actually, you're right.
Let's forget it ever happened, because it bears no statistical relevance all of a sudden.

 

[Skid Mark 33]

Who was the Driver of the race for you guys. I'd say Vettel for me. He had a great drive, and I think someday has a chance of the world championship. He is a great driver in my view. We were all amazed with Hammy in his first race, but face the facts, he is in a McLaren. And Vettel, only in his 4th GP, he has pulled an amazing result out of the bag in wet weather in a car that is'nt worthy! 👍

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I agree, and although I think many people like to diminish Hamilton's accomplishments because of the car he is driving, I suspect Hamilton and Vettel will be providing some great highlights during the 2008 and future F1 seasons. They are certainly both very talented and both add a great of youthful exuberance while at the same time they also have shown a lot of maturity, something a few of the current F1 "stars" could learn from.

Say what you will about Michael Schumacher, but one thing he was never short on was incredible exuberance while at the same time, rarely ever lost his cool or blamed other's for his misfortune. In that way, Vettel and Hamilton both seem to share a similar characteristic and both seem extremely talented.

I never like it when reporters immediately jump to the old saying... "He's the next _______" whenever some new young talent emerges in a sport, but I have to admit, I get a gut feeling that both Hamilton and Vettel appear to have the right mix of talent and mindset that may lead to careers as successful as many of the great F1 drivers of the past.

At the very least these two should provided fans with some great F1 moments, especially if they have good cars. 👍

 

[Danoff]

I reckon they're as relevant, what with them being the drivers in question in the same car for a whole season.

Interesting. 2006 numbers are just as relevant as 2007 numbers for predicting 2007 races. Taken to extreme, I think I could use that to justify the prediction that Michael Schumacher will win the next race.

 

[Danny]

Interesting. 2006 numbers are just as relevant as 2007 numbers for predicting 2007 races. Taken to extreme, I think I could use that to justify the prediction that Michael Schumacher will win the next race.

I understand that is an extreme example, however we were discussing the performances of Liuzzi and Speed. Forget all the other drivers in 2006 (since I thought it was obvious we weren't discussing them), this issue is regarding who is the faster of the two drivers whom were have just been discussing for more than 24 hours.

Forget the performances of other drivers, it's irrelevant in this context.
Speed and Liuzzi were in identical cars, and yet Liuzzi often outperformed Speed.

 

[Danoff]

I understand that is an extreme example, however we were discussing the performances of Liuzzi and Speed. Forget all the other drivers in 2006 (since I thought it was obvious we weren't discussing them), this issue is regarding who is the faster of the two drivers whom were have just been discussing for more than 24 hours.

Forget the performances of other drivers, it's irrelevant in this context.
Speed and Liuzzi were in identical cars, and yet Liuzzi often outperformed Speed.

Well see, that's part of the problem. I thought the discussion was about where Speed would have placed were he to have participated in the GP of China race this year. For which I considered the 2007 info considerably more important than 06 (not that speed was bad in 06 either).

I claimed that Speed would probably have been about where Vettel finished. And I stick by that based on the fact that Speed typically outperformed Liuzzi this season.

Partially I just don't want to talk about 06 because I don't want to go do my own research and I'm lazy. But part of it is because I think, as with most sports, there must be a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.

 

[Blake]

But isn’t Speed lame in the rain? That seems to be my recollection.

 

[Kylehnat]

...and that's why he's going to NASCAR 💡.

 

[Metar]

So far so good.

The reply may come a bit late (I have only watched the race today, and kept myself away from any F1-related news for a whole week!), but: Wow. You're a freakin' prophet.