Gran Turismo 5's Updated Clutch Review.
- Thread starter MOTORTRENDmitch
- 161 comments
- 20,184 views
- 8,723
The clutch alone is much better. What you're complaining about is the harsh throttle monitoring and the frustrating handling of mis-shifts. Sure, they could make the clutch unimportant like in GTR Evolution, but that's not really a fix, and in fact is a step backwards (but remember how many people thought the clutch was enabled for the GT Academy last time around). How hard can it be to re-train your left leg to push a bit further and, potentially, for a bit longer? It's good practice to use the full travel anyway, considering it's how many other games do it (disengage at the end of the travel.)
It amazes me how much people complain about the wrong things and wonder why they never get what they think they're asking for.
EDIT: G25 here.
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
- 7,594
- Ontario,Canada
- macospet1
- My What?
Griffith500
It isn't at all, but bottom line is we shouldn't have to. I actually didn't mind how it was before.. A real car with a manual transmission doesn't require you to push the clutch all the way to the floor in order to change gear, so why should it be like that in GT5? It amazes me people think the clutch is better, those people have either..
- Never driven a real car with a manual before
- Have no clue what they're talking about
- Are experiencing something different then being discussed in the thread
- Are just afraid of a little criticism.
I don't normally complain, and I think PD does great work, but it's just frustrating when things like this are overlooked, especially when we all know PD are capable of much more.. And Mitch and myself aren't the only one who have noticed this, so something is clearly up.
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
Think of it this way...
If you have your gear lever in 3rd, and it isn't in 3rd gear. There is a problem..
This happens in GT5. It shouldn't. No freaking debate. It simply shouldn't happen.
If you have your gear lever in 3rd, and it isn't in 3rd gear. There is a problem..
This happens in GT5. It shouldn't. No freaking debate. It simply shouldn't happen.
You are wrong. Who knows: maybe PD is working on complete clutch system overhaul for next GT release. If so, the newest patch is logical regarding the development progress. I highly recommend to you read Speed Secrets series where you can learn a lots of real driving techniques habbits. Moreover: of course, you can not care about your clutch in real race cars, but your team will be not happy after your every single race, cause your clutch will be totally destroyed not just only after a few races, but just after a few laps... Of course, in the present time, technology regarding clutch systems is much more advanced now, but not in every car! There are still plenty of racing series, where you need to care about your clutch and proper driving technique regarding gear changes. If you will learn such techniques, you will be more experienced driver even in modern race cars and your team will love your standpoint. If not, you can start to learn everything from scratch again and start looking for a different job.
People are complaining, because they arent fast now in their arcade leagues. Have you tested LFS years ago, when they released their clutch incl. clutch overheating? I don´t think so. It was great example of just a small single basic feature that works in real life. Most of people were lost cause they were not able to adapt to real driving technique. Adapt to different things regarding driving techniques - per example in particular car or gokart (per example regarding indoor or outdoor racing tracks) is one of the most frustrated parts in real motorsport. Not everyone has the skill to do so in the shortest possible time frame and yes, I can remember my bad times and frustrations, when I was slover than my team mate by a 0.3 sec. and it took 1 month of hard work to convince myself that I just need to change a bit my driving style in some corners. I was so frustrated, cause it was very hard work and a real challenge, but after a month or so, I was back in business again and learned a lesson (be calm, be patient, think and practice).
Last edited:
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
Grandi
Premium
- 269
- Helsinki
- GTP_Grandi / kakeskin
Feel free to build gates in your shifter 👍 I'd like it to grind and growl like the real thing upon bad clutch use, but what can you really do about that issue at the moment?
That said, I'd be glad if powershifting was in (as in some other products).
Edit: even more than that, drivetrain wear / failures would be appreciated
- 2,567
- Upstate NY
- BWX232
Yeah but the update to the the clutch pedal is good, it's the H-pattern shifting simulation that is the problem, not the clutch pedal.
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
I don't know what sort of "testing" the OP did, but the clutch is MASSIVELY better now. I'm on G27 btw. Holy cow. It's actually fun to drive standard now in GT5.
Firstly, missed shifts happen a lot less now. They fixed the problem of not being able to shift from first to second until the revs dropped.
And secondly, most importantly, the clutch pedal is actually a pedal now. With an axis rather than the stupid on/off switch that it basically was before. This makes it much more enjoyable.
Thirdly, half the stuff that the OP and gang are complaining about were already there! You guys make it sound like PD added in all these things that made it worse. No. They kept some bad things the same, and made some bad things a whole lot better. How that can be taken as anything other than an improvement is beyond me.
Fourthly, the biggest thing people have been complaining about with this clutch deal is that it has to be 100% depressed in order to get into gear. I'm sorry, but that is just false. Anything about 75% depressed and further and the car will go into gear. Is this necessarily realistic? No, but it's a lot better than you are making it out to be.
Firstly, missed shifts happen a lot less now. They fixed the problem of not being able to shift from first to second until the revs dropped.
And secondly, most importantly, the clutch pedal is actually a pedal now. With an axis rather than the stupid on/off switch that it basically was before. This makes it much more enjoyable.
Thirdly, half the stuff that the OP and gang are complaining about were already there! You guys make it sound like PD added in all these things that made it worse. No. They kept some bad things the same, and made some bad things a whole lot better. How that can be taken as anything other than an improvement is beyond me.
Fourthly, the biggest thing people have been complaining about with this clutch deal is that it has to be 100% depressed in order to get into gear. I'm sorry, but that is just false. Anything about 75% depressed and further and the car will go into gear. Is this necessarily realistic? No, but it's a lot better than you are making it out to be.
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
The stuff the OP is complaining about were already there, yes. Point is they should not have been in the first place, and PD didn't fix what was really broken. The ability to shift realistically. If your car needs a clutch and a flywheel you can't just fix the flywheel and say "there you go fixed!"
The clutch shouldn't have to be depressed that far to work properly. A good clutch in real life should have to be depressed 50%. And before you go calling BS, I work as a technician in a dealership for a living and went to school to work on cars. I know what I'm talking about.
very good conclusion from today´s clutch discussion. 👍
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
This isn't about how far you have to push the clutch, you shouldn't have to let off of the gas, let alone 100% off, to get into the next gear ratio. This is simple fact. If you have driven manual transmission cars in your life time, you know what I mean. If you haven't; don't waste our time.
You don't need to let off the throttle for a car to go into gear. This is simple fact.
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
- 3,385
- Kings Lynn.
- Dixon_F1
Completely agree with you!
- 965
- Australia
- R0T4RY99
- R0T4RY
I don't like the new update, heel and toeing will most likely get you to neutral now... (G25 user)
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
Yes, but you don't put in the new flywheel and say "This is so much worse!".
And, for the record, PD's update changelog didn't say "We have now fixed the clutch and it is perfect." All the said was they improved it. The 2.08 clutch model is improved, not fixed. That is key.
Which is why, if you actually read my post, I said
All I was saying is that this
is just plain false.
And why are you just now complaining about this? News flash, GT5 came out almost 2 years ago, and it's always been like that. I'm not saying that PD have fixed this, because they haven't, but I can't understand why you keep making it out like PD has made it worse. They just haven't!
And for the record, I do own and drive manual transmission cars. I promise I'm not arguing about the realism of the clutch system, I'm merely pointing out that PD have made some great improvements, and while the clutch/shifter system isn't perfect, it certainly hasn't been made worse.
- 8,723
And that's not a "freaking" clutch issue, get with it!
- 2,567
- Upstate NY
- BWX232
Yeah the title of this thread is ''....Updated Clutch Review.'' .. Then OP goes on to say how bad the shifting is. The shifting has bad/stupid parts, yes, but it always has!
The clutch is not worse now, the clutch is better.
The bad parts about shifting simulation are still bad.
The title of this thread is wrong then.. change it to something about shifting simulation is still bad, but clutch pedal is better or whatever.
Why complain about improvements, just because everything is not completely fixed?
The clutch is not worse now, the clutch is better.
The bad parts about shifting simulation are still bad.
The title of this thread is wrong then.. change it to something about shifting simulation is still bad, but clutch pedal is better or whatever.
Why complain about improvements, just because everything is not completely fixed?
- 1,414
- redrobin347
- 694
- Pennsylvania
- lifesagamble420
I was just hoping they would fix the g27 second gear issue. Unless my foot was 100 percent off the gas and I shift to second gear in a grandma like motion, it would just go to neutral. I can't agree that it is much worse because I always fully engage the clutch, but I will agree that they should implement something similar to sim racing (just have to tap the clutch, and over revs/gas response is pretty accurate especially going into a turn downshifting)
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
I've had a G27 & GT5 since the release of the game.
I have been aware of the fact that manual shifting in Gran Turismo 5.
The clutch may have been made better in itself, however it has made it harder to shift due to the fact that the accelerator is for some reason correlated to shifting. The higher clutch bite-point was a bit of a counter effect. If they were to fix how the accelerator works in correspondence to shifting, I'd be happy.
- 8,723
I've had a G27 & GT5 since the release of the game.
I have been aware of the fact that manual shifting in Gran Turismo 5.
The clutch may have been made better in itself, however it has made it harder to shift due to the fact that the accelerator is for some reason correlated to shifting. The higher clutch bite-point was a bit of a counter effect. If they were to fix how the accelerator works in correspondence to shifting, I'd be happy.
Don't forget the fact that the requested gear is only updated when the stick changes position, and not at regular intervals, as it should be. That's a bigger issue, because it compounds the frustration of a missed shift.
Again, none of that is a clutch issue, so I suggest you make the necessary amends.
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
I can agree with this..
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
I have taken college courses on manual transmissions/transaxles, I have driven many different manual transmission cars, and my daily driver is a manual. What on earth does that have to do with anything?
I've had a G27 & GT5 since the release of the game.
I have been aware of the fact that manual shifting in Gran Turismo 5.
The clutch may have been made better in itself, however it has made it harder to shift due to the fact that the accelerator is for some reason correlated to shifting. The higher clutch bite-point was a bit of a counter effect. If they were to fix how the accelerator works in correspondence to shifting, I'd be happy.
It's been like that since day 1. I'm not arguing the realism factor of the whole clutch/shifting process, all I'm saying is, improvements have been made. The clutch is now actually sort of a clutch. The only reason that you think its "harder" to shift is that the engagement point is farther down the pedal, which gives the illusion of having to press the clutch pedal more in order to change gears. Once you get used to that, the whole process becomes easier than before because of clutch improvements, and them fixing the issue of having to let the revs drop a bit before engaging the next gear.
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
Are you kidding? This thread is practically based on shifting. If you have taken these courses, you should indeed know, Polyphony Digital has done a HORRIBLE job of manual shifting.💡
- 803
- Waco, TX
- GTP_Goshin2568
- Goshin2568
Yes, and I have said in EVERY SINGLE ONE of my posts, I'm not arguing that the shifting and clutch system is realistic. I know it isn't! All I'm saying is that it's better than it was before.
