Gran Turismo 6 coming to PS3

hmmmmm I remember Yamauchi-san saying about GT5, particularly the graphics for the premium car were already beyond PS3's capability CMIIW.... if they release GT6 in PS3, will it be like doing the same mistake twice?
 
hmmmmm I remember Yamauchi-san saying about GT5, particularly the graphics for the premium car were already beyond PS3's capability CMIIW.... if they release GT6 in PS3, will it be like doing the same mistake twice?

If they were to release GT6 on PS3 I dont expect the graphics to change much. If GT6 was to be released on PS3 instead I would expect a more refined version of GT5 to lead up to the next gen system. Same physics (maybe they can fix the tires some), same graphics, improved A spec events and online play, and maybe they can fix some of the clone cars so they have their unique traits back or just get rid of some them. I dont care about premium/standard cars or anything like that at this point because to me the graphics are not too important until the PS4 comes out. Obviously with new hardware a significant improvement in graphics would be expected but if it is to be on what we have now there are far more important things to fix.
 
If they were to release GT6 on PS3 I dont expect the graphics to change much. If GT6 was to be released on PS3 instead I would expect a more refined version of GT5 to lead up to the next gen system. Same physics (maybe they can fix the tires some), same graphics, improved A spec events and online play, and maybe they can fix some of the clone cars so they have their unique traits back or just get rid of some them. I dont care about premium/standard cars or anything like that at this point because to me the graphics are not too important until the PS4 comes out. Obviously with new hardware a significant improvement in graphics would be expected but if it is to be on what we have now there are far more important things to fix.

thing is though, I wonder why PD or Sony want to release it on PS3 instead of PS4... I mean they got more time to polished the game even more so when they released it, we can go "WOW" when seeing it....
 
Last edited:
Nobidy wants to pay for PSN, but at the moment PSN sucks, its usless.
If paying for it meant that it would be a better service then i would pay.

Odd because three posts ago I thought I said....

Its not a MS vs Sony thread or a discussion about on-line subscription discussion, so please keep the flame bait out of the thread.
 
thing is though, I wonder why PD or Sony want to release it on PS3 instead of PS4... I mean they got more time to polished the game even more so when they released it, we can go "WOW" when seeing it....

My thinking is that IF it is to be released on PS3 they will use GT6 as a testing ground for things that they want on the PS4 version. So if we do get it on PS3 I anticipate they will rework the A spec events and the online setup. Maybe we will get the one makes back too. Something like GT3 to GT4 maybe.

Perhaps we would see more Premium style cars and some of the lower quality tracks will be updated. Not to mention all the original circuits they can add from previous titles without even having to pay licensing fees.

Maybe its just wishful thinking that we will get the standards one more time. Say what you will about how they look, but when they go there will be alot of cars gone that will be gone forever. I hope GT5 isnt the last time we see the Group B rally cars or the Group C prototypes.

:edit: This would also be the perfect opportunity to try out a livery editor. You know its not going to be perfect on the first try so why not give it an early go so when we do get a PS4 GT it will be improved and refined.
 
DORIFTO KOZO
thing is though, I wonder why PD or Sony want to release it on PS3 instead of PS4... I mean they got more time to polished the game even more so when they released it, we can go "WOW" when seeing it....

The only answer is:
Because it's almost finished.

Would they begin developing for ps3 now? Of course not, but if they began in 2010 and have gone way past the point where it might make sense to scrap everything and move on, then it has to be released, there is no option.

For all we know sony delayed ps4 by 6 months for the games which we'll see at the end of the year.
 
thing is though, I wonder why PD or Sony want to release it on PS3 instead of PS4... I mean they got more time to polished the game even more so when they released it, we can go "WOW" when seeing it....

Remember GT4? That game certainly ''WOWed'' me when it came out, even though it was very late in the system's life cycle. For a game to be more beautiful and realistic it doesn't only come down to higher resolutions and stuff. From what I could tell, GT4 looked so realistic because of it's better use of colours, it's very pretty lightning system and so forth. With the right amount of sacrificing certain things many people don't notice, you could optimalize others, thus making the game look prettier without beefing up the system. That said, I think that PD has a surprise in store for us for GT6 if it comes out on PS3, and I believe it could still ''WOW'' me:)
 
Assuming they announce it at E3 ,has there ever been a game released within 6 month of an announcment?
 
I know I'm late to the keys here, but I just took a look at the specs of the PS3 and PS4, and the most glaring difference is the move from the current cell processor managed by an NVIDIA chip, to an all-in-one AMD unit (note I'm massively oversimplifying this).

Thinking about what was said in the announcement, maybe the PS4 actually required a blank slate, as converting from one system, for which they had already been working on for GT6 if Kaz is to be believed, to the new one may flatly just not been worth it. Add to that no mentions of the new NSX or Seattle coming to GT5, they may do what Codemasters CLAIMED they were gonna do and hold any new DLC for GT5, instead having it ready for GT6.

TL;DR- New system, new guts; looking more likely than not.
 
...For all we know sony delayed ps4 by 6 months for the games which we'll see at the end of the year.
Maybe they bought it forward, we just don't know. I think in any case they know what they're doing.

And sems4 - by going on record and stating he's not going to announce GT6 until it's absolutely ready, Kazunori-san has broken with the tradition of a lengthy lead up from announcement to release. So it could be announced and out within a very short space of time.

Me, I really hope it's coming out this year.
 
hmmmmm I remember Yamauchi-san saying about GT5, particularly the graphics for the premium car were already beyond PS3's capability CMIIW.... if they release GT6 in PS3, will it be like doing the same mistake twice?

Are you even serious right now? I don't know who's talking more non-sense, you....or the guy above you saying "PSN sucks". But at least his is an opinion (an uninformed one, but an opinion never-the-less), yours is just an outright lie. Yamauchi didn't say GT5's models were beyond PS3's capabilities. At least not in that context. He said the models were crafted to a higher quality than they needed so the models would be usefull for future games/hardware.

Can you seriously tell me that you believe....after seeing all the PS3 exclusives and even a number of 3rd party multi-plats, and knowing that GT5 was for all intents and purposes probably the very first PS3 game in development, that GT5 is getting everything possible out of PS3's hardware? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME !!!!

Anyone who believes GT5 is getting all PD can out of PS3 is simply not paying attention or completely uninformed. No BS here, GT5 is getting MAYBE 60% out of PS3's potential. And imo that is being generous when it comes to efficiency. Developers now know that with both current hardware systems (ps3 and 360), scaling back on certain things leaves you lots of resources to improve everything else to create for better over-all products. When GT5 was being developed, the developers (for many games, not just GT5) thought 1080p on a high end product was realistic on the current hardware. As it turns out it wasn't.............I could go on forever about this, but I've got work and I've already gone through it time and again........short version....... by the time GT6 development started right as GT5 launched (confirmed by Kaz), PS3 development was FAR more efficient than it was for GT5, literally lightyears beyond what it was.

Therefore, GT6 on PS3 is going to look SO much better than GT5 that people aren't going to believe it. Just more modern post proccessing alone would be a huge leap over GT5 when it comes to the over-all visual quality, nevermind the countless other advances in PS3 coding since 2008 (which is when GT5's graphics engine was finalised and only scaled back from there hence GT5P looking better than GT5).
 
Right, and he's only talking about the processor. I'm pretty sure they're using every last bit of the memory.
 
Right, and he's only talking about the processor. I'm pretty sure they're using every last bit of the memory.

GPU and RAM will most likely be used close to 100% all the time I would imagine. The extra CPU power they have left hopefully they use for driving physics and AI rather than graphics.
 
80%, then GT6 should be more optimized, maybe drop to 720p, better coding, better processor utilization, then maybe push to 90+% of PS3 power, it might just be better than GT5 visual ( better shadow, track side detail, visual effects and physics )

I hope so.
Off topic:By the way brilliant avatar!
 
In this article (from 11 months before GT5's release) Kaz said around 80%, not 60:
http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/14/yamauchi-gt5-to-use-80-of-ps3s-power/

Kaz is a professional race car driver and a game designer, not an engineer of any type. This was his "estimate" and he also noted peak power not sustained power...BIG difference! The cell processor was a mega flop in terms of it living up to the hype given it before production. Sony lost it's 🤬 on the cell which is why they switched to an X86 proc for the new console.
This is just the opinion of an electrical engineer that has been involved in the industry over 30 years. Feel free to continue to argue about how much more performance they can get out this nearly 10 year old piece of crap hardware all you want :)
 
Kaz is a professional race car driver and a game designer, not an engineer of any type. This was his "estimate" and he also noted peak power not sustained power...BIG difference! The cell processor was a mega flop in terms of it living up to the hype given it before production. Sony lost it's 🤬 on the cell which is why they switched to an X86 proc for the new console.
This is just the opinion of an electrical engineer that has been involved in the industry over 30 years. Feel free to continue to argue about how much more performance they can get out this nearly 10 year old piece of crap hardware all you want :)

I would assume he would go by what his team tells him.
 
Kaz is a professional race car driver and a game designer, not an engineer of any type. This was his "estimate" and he also noted peak power not sustained power...BIG difference! The cell processor was a mega flop in terms of it living up to the hype given it before production. Sony lost it's 🤬 on the cell which is why they switched to an X86 proc for the new console.
This is just the opinion of an electrical engineer that has been involved in the industry over 30 years. Feel free to continue to argue about how much more performance they can get out this nearly 10 year old piece of crap hardware all you want :)

Right, so you have 30 years' worth of specific experience with massively-complex, software-controlled, microprocessors and the software that runs on them (and practically defines their architecture these days)? Because otherwise you might as well be a civil engineer or process engineer or something.

The Cell project overall was actually pretty successful given how radical it was. The problem with the PS3 is not the Cell BE, but how it was implemented: too little main I/O bandwidth and too little RAM. The Cell was sold on its streaming ability, hence the small amount of RAM, but they "messed up" by failing to provide the necessary bandwidth to keep it usefully filled by swapping in the right stuff at the right time.

Funny that the PS4, and the PSN's future in general, takes that streaming ideal and runs with it. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. ;)

I'd have thought that, as an engineer, you'd know that optimisation (i.e. getting more "performance") is only a matter of time, which means it's a matter of compromise. The longer you work to one set of rules, the longer you have to learn to adapt to it. PD have been applying little optimisations to GT5 in updates, but, given the limited nature of changes that can be made in this way, I bet that a totally new game would provide even more improvements (adhering to the law of diminishing returns, naturally.)

We're still just going to have to wait and see.
 
Actually, yes, I have 30 years experience with processors and systems. I started back in the 70's with the Zilog Z80 chip. As for the success of the cell, I will not argue with you. Look it up, the cell failed miserably. As an engineer I am very aware of optimization, it has been a large part of what I have done all my life. You however, seem to be confusing applications (game-GT5) code optimization with system (firmware) code optimization. Sony has no intention of updating the firmware or hardware for the PS3, especially with the new system coming so soon. That being the case, the aps that run on the system are extremely limited in what they can accomplish with code optimization. You are right, we will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold my breath on anything earth shattering with a new game on 7 year old hardware.
 
You are right, we will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold my breath on anything earth shattering with a new game on 7 year old hardware.

Hey, if PDI makes the same jump from GT5 to GT6 on the PS3 as they did with GT3 to GT4, the ground WILL shake my man!:)
 
Actually, yes, I have 30 years experience with processors and systems. I started back in the 70's with the Zilog Z80 chip. As for the success of the cell, I will not argue with you. Look it up, the cell failed miserably. As an engineer I am very aware of optimization, it has been a large part of what I have done all my life. You however, seem to be confusing applications (game-GT5) code optimization with system (firmware) code optimization. Sony has no intention of updating the firmware or hardware for the PS3, especially with the new system coming so soon. That being the case, the aps that run on the system are extremely limited in what they can accomplish with code optimization. You are right, we will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold my breath on anything earth shattering with a new game on 7 year old hardware.

That's all fair enough, and I'm actually baffled by your over-zealous outburst regarding the Cell now, or maybe there's just some politics that I'm missing. Sure, Kaz isn't an electrical / electronic engineer with 30 years' experience in the field, but he doesn't have to be when his dev team can tell him what they're doing on various bits of the silicon, which is their area of expertise. He has years of experience of listening to that information, and hearing the way it evolves during an ambitious software project and being able to compare that information with the actual results he sees in front of him. I'd suspect he knew exactly what he was saying.

As for the Cell being successful, I think that rather depends on what it was intended to actually achieve. The fact that it was different must be a success in itself, and although the PS4 has switched to good old x86 (from good old Power), it's technically got a great big array of vector units slapped onto the same die, too, which is going to be doing both what the SPUs did for the Cell and what a "classic" GPU does, only using a single instruction set that more coders are actually familiar with (although that wouldn't have been a problem had Sony actually had decent support in the early days of the PS3; they improved that dramatically, of course, and the devs reaped the benefits, as did we.)

The problem with calling the Cell a failure is that it's part of a much larger context that, overall (I used the phrase "Cell project" deliberately), was actually tremendously successful in opening up massively parallel computing in games for uses beyond just pushing pixels (something AMD has long been keen on, too). The chip design itself might have been a dead-end, in IBM's own words, but some of the concepts (like the parallelism and heterogeneous architecture - same as AMD's "Fusion") have been carried forward into newer designs - also IBM's words. Also, once developers got a handle on what that heterogeneous direction could achieve, they started asking for more of it, which is good news for gamers.


I won't confess to know the difference between firmware and software optimisation, and I'm not sure why it's relevant, as I was only ever talking about the game. The fact is that PD have had 2 and a bit years to work some more on PS3 (assuming they have been doing) and there's plenty they could have done in that time to make a better game, either technically, in terms of code or pixel shaders or whatever, or of the other stuff that goes into making a game.
As mentioned above, a modest technical improvement, like we've seen on previous hardware, is all that's needed, and all that should be expected. An improvement to workflows and the general artistic direction of the now-better-harnessed technical aspects of the game will result in a better looking, feeling and sounding game, too; but it's the game-design part, i.e. the part we actually play with, that's most important...
 
Back