Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)
- Thread starter TorqueHappenS08
- 1,684 comments
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- 3,232
- Wales
If you want to drive the MR cars better (especially Stratos) you should avoid coming off the throttle quickly, infact you should keep on the throttle lightly during braking zones, if you drive it smoothly and avoid coming fully off the throttle it will become a lot easier.
This is pretty realistic, though it's perhaps a little exaggerated. I wouldn't know as I've never driven a real Lancia Stratos, or MR2 but from what I know they aren't the easiest cars to drive fast.
This is pretty realistic, though it's perhaps a little exaggerated. I wouldn't know as I've never driven a real Lancia Stratos, or MR2 but from what I know they aren't the easiest cars to drive fast.
wouldn't necessarily call it torque steer, what you saw happen was the lsd not activating quick enough or hard enough or a car with an open diff. the classic one wheel peel will send you spinning in this game right now. it's really evident in high torque rwds. my el camino does the same and increasing the power of the lsd has helped.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 1,629
- Texas
- RC45
- RC45
Hence the name, off throttle over steer - it is both a blessing and a curse.
A blessing when you need to rotate the car and tighten a turn, a curse when it gets away from you.
OTOS is not just a trait of RR and MR cars, my real world FR car has a healthy dose of OTOS in it - which again is great when needing to tighten a line
- 67
I can drive the Stratos relatively easily but i don't keep the throttle down during braking, that's not something you would do in the real car either because you would absolutely destroy the brakes, you wouldn't be able to do that without left foot braking anyways and there wouldn't be very many corners on a circuit where you would need to do that. It's generally required to keep some throttle open through a corner in a mid-engine car, but not while braking, you either want to be on the brakes or on the throttle, not both and not neither. I think people need to use -2 steering sensitivity with cars like this, i use -2 for everything and it gives you more feedback and precision, although i use a T500, so i can't say for other wheels.
I was planning on making a video of the Stratos through the Nordschleife, i use the T500 with the TH8RS shifter, fully manual, without ABS or any other aids, i think a video would give people a good idea of how to drive these sorts of cars. I've driven plenty of race cars, even purpose-built cars in real life and it's amazing to me how well they recreated the proper physics in GT6, especially on the 10 year old hardware in the PS3.
After driving the Stratos I was afraid the YB and BTR would be crazy...hopefully it's patched..the Stratos was wild but controllable within reason in GT5...not so much in GT6
It doesn't need to be patched. If they do patch it to make it more "driveable", then they would only be trying to please people who can't drive it properly, that's not what a "real driving simulator" should be doing.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
The car isn't undrivable, in GT5 it was one of my favourite cars both stock and tuned. It's not the same car in GT6. The back end comes around much quicker and there is much less grip at the back, or at least it seems that way to me in the couple of seasonals I drove it in. I'd rather it go back to GT5 levels of grip, GT6 version is unrealistically oversteery to me.
- 67
GT5 was very far from realistic, even after all the updates. Look at the power to weight of the Stratos, look at the wheelbase, look at the front/rear balance, and then seriously tell me it's unrealistic. Lancia designed this car specifically to make quick directional changes, it does exactly as advertised, it was never meant to be easy to drive and any of the original works team drivers will say that it was one of the most demanding cars they've ever driven. Even Sandro Munari, who was one of the best rally drivers of his time was often losing control in the Stratos.
A big complaint i had of this car in GT5 was the fact that you had to go out of your way to make it spin, when it's the sort of car that's always about to spin through a corner, it's a giant go-kart.
Watch this if you need more confirmation:
- 349
I'm in love with the physics in this game. The feeling you get in the steering wheel is just awesome and the car feels much more "alive" under me. Weird, but it just feel very real. I think the slipstreaming is a little better too. To me it seems like the slipstreaming looses it's effect sooner, i.e. with longer distances. In GT5 the effect was very strong even at a distance. Now this distance seems to have shortened a bit.
I love how you can feel the body roll and the limits of grip much better. The cars have less grip now, but you can feel the grip much better, allowing you to drive faster. I noticed many cars have less grip during turn-in and that you now have to trail brake a little on many cars. Very nice PD.
I love how you can feel the body roll and the limits of grip much better. The cars have less grip now, but you can feel the grip much better, allowing you to drive faster. I noticed many cars have less grip during turn-in and that you now have to trail brake a little on many cars. Very nice PD.
In fm4 on the steering wheel-Stratos is a good car. Yes Stratos revolves around its own axis, it is a little nervous, but Stratos gives a choice: take turns on a trajectory, or take a turn in the drift.
This car likes drifts, but if the driver does not wish to skid, it will not. It's a fun car rally. But talking about unmodified Stratos. After the increase in power the car becomes insane
This car likes drifts, but if the driver does not wish to skid, it will not. It's a fun car rally. But talking about unmodified Stratos. After the increase in power the car becomes insane
Grandi
Premium
- 269
- Helsinki
- GTP_Grandi / kakeskin
I guess they should be pretty grippy for most road cars... if they indeed are meant to represent track-day (semi-slick) tyres.
IMO, the best thing about GT6's new tyres is somewhat similar to Assetto Corsa - the grippier tyres let you push a great deal before you get everything out of them; once the limit is reached, the loss of grip feels a lot more violent and dynamic than it did in GT5. On the other hand, even the comfiest of comfort tyres still feels like a tyre - you get that feeling of rubber under the car, even though the (very gradual) limit of grip is reached quite a bit sooner.
- 38
- kickformoney-
- kickformoney
That video makes me want to leave work and go play some RBR.
- 7,765
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
I'm loving the new physics, having such awesome fun just driving my KTM on the ring 24 hour. 
I have noticed that there is definitely a point of no return when losing the rear end. I have always been great at catching slides, but finding that harder in GT6. Tyre squeal has grown on me, hated it at first, but getting used to it. I even enjoyed the first 2 missions when you drive on the moon, HA! 
I think GT6 has had a much better start than GT5, may PD continue to improve the game via updates. 👍
I have noticed that there is definitely a point of no return when losing the rear end. I have always been great at catching slides, but finding that harder in GT6. Tyre squeal has grown on me, hated it at first, but getting used to it. I even enjoyed the first 2 missions when you drive on the moon, HA! I think GT6 has had a much better start than GT5, may PD continue to improve the game via updates. 👍
- 3,232
- Wales
What I meant was that throttle under braking is is a pretty realistic way to help straighten out the car, some drivers drive this way famously (Michael Schumacher), though he often got told off about it in his second career it was part of his normal driving in his earlier career. And with that said it works in the game, I was able to drive the Stratos faster and easier this way.
Also, I drive the Stratos with the clutch + h-shifter and heel toe, I'm blipping on the downshift with the right foot, then I switch braking feet so that my left foot is on the brake and right foot on the throttle, a technique popular in rally. It's also quite possible in shorter braking zones to simply leave the the throttle slightly open after a blip with your right foot covering both, so no need to switch braking feet.
No real worry about wearing the brakes out in GT6 when you're running 3 lap races and brake failure is not modelled! Like I said I don't know if this technique was used in the Stratos, but it is definitely a technique used in some forms of motorsport, specifically F1 during the 90s and early 00's and it definitely works.
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- 1,945
- Treviglio
- PAPPACLART
- PAPPALCART
Have not had enough time to explore the physics but I was particularly impressed with the sirocco on race hards. Normally with FR race cars with my club we would often run tires with sports mediums as anything stickier just took the life out of the cars but the Sirocco in GT6 is twithcy, with the back end moving around, feels great and enjoyable, where all FR cars in GT5 were lifeless under steering messes. I am sure with updates we should see some minor tweaks also that should imporve further. (I Hope)
Grandi
Premium
- 269
- Helsinki
- GTP_Grandi / kakeskin
Actually, regarding this, I guess the tuning menu says that the racing brake kit will prevent fade. This would imply that brake fade is indeed modeled in some manner, but does anyone have any evidence either proving or disproving this matter?
Now on the original topic, if you perchance take part in the Skip Barber series in iRacing, that car requires a great deal of throttle braking into faster corners to prevent it from spinning out - a fairly standard technique in the sim and (according to actual Skippy racers) almost entirely unused in the real cars. So, I think we shouldn't frown too much on the "realism" behind this topic, as the downsides definitely require a well-thought implementation of brake temperature effects.
At this time, I'm not very worried even if the temperature consideration is entirely absent - we've probably still got bigger issues to worry about. That said, I'd be very happy in the case of the (pleasant) surprise that it has been considered!
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
In free run mode you can't cook your brakes if you accelerate for a prolonged amount of time with the brake pedal pressed (you can easily test this in SSRX), so I would guess that brake fading is not modeled, at least there.
3 things that scare me
1. driving with light-weighted MR - very hard to recover from oversteer
2. driving over curbs - easily to flip
3. making contact with AIs - very hard to recover once AI came to contact with the rear from the sides. I try to steer far away from them
Guess I have to change my driving style and hone my skills further:idea:
1. driving with light-weighted MR - very hard to recover from oversteer
2. driving over curbs - easily to flip
3. making contact with AIs - very hard to recover once AI came to contact with the rear from the sides. I try to steer far away from them
Guess I have to change my driving style and hone my skills further:idea:
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Please, do it.
- 422
- Eastern MA
- Odin_Wednesday
I found the same thing with the X-Bow. I had to be extremely careful turning into any of the high-speed turns or the back end would be gone. It got a little better as I started to train myself to get on throttle, but I still haven't really learned how to drive it.
Granted, this is concurrent with switching from a controller to a wheel, and I've found I'm a lot better at catching slides with a controller than I am with a wheel.
GT6 Physics annoying me. I was very excited after Academy Demo, cars were nice to drive with good feeling. Now i have big problem with MR cars and even Aventador !
FR cars are now really nice to drive and don't have much understeer but MR are terible.
I bought Aventador, first race on High Speed Ring, first corner and My back has gone... Ok i bought race tyres it only makes it worse. Then I bought race suspension and back spoliler (which is moving with old active one... so stupid) and it's get better after suspension tuning, but not much and it's still easy to lose back of the car. I cant drive through fast corners on the six gear with full throttle... strange for me.
Now MR cars. I have X-bow with standard setting it was not so bad, but oversteer. After change suspension, tyres for race hards and some power updates (now about 600 PP) and race brake package it's very nerwous on brakeing and in fast corners...
Then I have to buy GT3 car. I have tested Nissan, BMW and Mercedes before buy. I can't test Audi. Ok, BMW was very oversteer, GT-R littel less but much more then i Demo... SLS was really nice to drive without oversteer even after touch the grass. I bought Audi R8 ultra... For me better than BMW and Nissan but much worse than SLS. No oversteer in high speed corners but very oversteer in low speed ones and unstable on braking.
The worst thing in the game is to keep the car when you will inter the curb. It's very often just turn around even when you countersteer.
I'm playing on Logitech G27 and i didn't have problems like this in GT5. I spin a lot in GT6, often while braking... I drive with ABS on 1 and traction control on 5 (sometimes off, but games often turn it to 5, which is also annoying). I don't fell driving pleasure like in Academy Demo and GT5.
I also noticed that You need to keep throttle when braking to avoid spin.
FR cars are now really nice to drive and don't have much understeer but MR are terible.
I bought Aventador, first race on High Speed Ring, first corner and My back has gone... Ok i bought race tyres it only makes it worse. Then I bought race suspension and back spoliler (which is moving with old active one... so stupid) and it's get better after suspension tuning, but not much and it's still easy to lose back of the car. I cant drive through fast corners on the six gear with full throttle... strange for me.
Now MR cars. I have X-bow with standard setting it was not so bad, but oversteer. After change suspension, tyres for race hards and some power updates (now about 600 PP) and race brake package it's very nerwous on brakeing and in fast corners...
Then I have to buy GT3 car. I have tested Nissan, BMW and Mercedes before buy. I can't test Audi. Ok, BMW was very oversteer, GT-R littel less but much more then i Demo... SLS was really nice to drive without oversteer even after touch the grass. I bought Audi R8 ultra... For me better than BMW and Nissan but much worse than SLS. No oversteer in high speed corners but very oversteer in low speed ones and unstable on braking.
The worst thing in the game is to keep the car when you will inter the curb. It's very often just turn around even when you countersteer.
I'm playing on Logitech G27 and i didn't have problems like this in GT5. I spin a lot in GT6, often while braking... I drive with ABS on 1 and traction control on 5 (sometimes off, but games often turn it to 5, which is also annoying). I don't fell driving pleasure like in Academy Demo and GT5.
I also noticed that You need to keep throttle when braking to avoid spin.
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- 830
- JAKARTA
- GTIC_omDidit
Just done online session, and some note :
- 177hp 1000kg Honda Fit does torque steering from standing start. I started at the back and saw all my friends' cars sway to the right, including mine. My wheel doesnt move though, lol
- Deltawing is one interesting car to drive, sooo easy to spin out during corner entry, it require very delicate input to prevent it.
- 177hp 1000kg Honda Fit does torque steering from standing start. I started at the back and saw all my friends' cars sway to the right, including mine. My wheel doesnt move though, lol
- Deltawing is one interesting car to drive, sooo easy to spin out during corner entry, it require very delicate input to prevent it.
- 67
Blipping the throttle during downshift isn't what i thought you meant when you said you need to be on the throttle and brakes at the same time, that should only be to bring the driveline up to the speed of the tires anyways, so it would have no effect on the brakes if done properly. Either way, left foot braking while still on the throttle without the clutch depressed is only useful for small directional changes and for bringing the engine up to a more optimum speed (what Schumacher and other pro's do). If you're in a major braking zone you should just brake and downshift normally and be back a bit on the throttle during corner entry to combat the engine braking (the actual cause of oversteer off-throttle), although you can use the engine braking to your advantage in some situations.
There's absolutely no reason to be on the brakes at the same time as the throttle in most situations and definitely not for a prolonged period, you only would ever want a dab of the brakes if you're still on the throttle otherwise like i said you would destroy the brakes in real life. Just because you can't wear the brakes in GT doesn't mean it's a good technique. The only reason why i could see anyone doing this is if they're not getting the braking points correct and are simply entering a corner too quickly, because i can easily brake in a straight line or even a slight bend with the Stratos without any trouble. As long as you know how to apply the brakes then i honestly don't see the point in being on the throttle at the same time, it would just lengthen your braking zone unnecessarily and have the potential for more wear on the car.
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