Gran Turismo 6 general Physics Discussion(as well as video)

[Bigbazz]

Then it probably would have made more sense if you said to use left-foot braking instead of telling people to never lift off the throttle during braking zones. That's not what left foot braking is. You're now just explaining the obvious to me and avoiding the original comment you made. I can't read your mind, if you mean one thing and say another, don't expect someone to not try and correct you.

In the link, the car being talked about has a fuel cutoff during shifting. Does the Lancia Stratos also have a fuel cutoff during shifting? No. The car in the article doesn't require the use of a foot operated clutch while shifting up or down. Does the Lancia Stratos require a foot operated clutch while shifting up or down? Yes.

Left foot braking is a common technique, on the other hand, keeping the throttle open the entire time even a little while downshifting under heavy braking in a manual transmission car is downright stupid.

I could post an article that claims you can drive the Tesla Roadster without ever having to downshift at all during a braking zone, so that means i should be able to do that in the Stratos, right? I bet if Schumacher did it in the Tesla, then i could do it in the Stratos.

You misunderstand, the Stratos does not "require" a clutch to downshift. You can rev match and downshift without a clutch, rally drivers commonly only use the clutch on upshifts so that they can left foot brake during certain corners. Also like I said it's possible to cover the brake and the throttle with your right foot throughout the downshifting process if you must downshift while entering a corner and want to maintain some throttle throughout.

Driving is organic, you don't just take my advice of "dont take your foot off the throttle" as the exact literal sense, of course you can never stay 100% on the throttle at all times. The point is that if someone reads my advice and tries it then it will work, it's especially easy for them to do if they aren't using a H-shifter + clutch.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Strange, I would strongly disagree. On most rear wheel drive launches I've gotten some decent torque steer.

You can't really disagree with test results, but okay. I've noted cars veering off-center on other (non-flat) tracks, absolutely, but on SSRX, every single car I've taken there, on all sorts of tire compounds, have launched arrow-straight.

 

[RAZRr1275]

I've gotten plenty of torque steer as well

 

[TokoTurismo]

There's something odd about SSRX that doesn't allow your to do torque steer, so wierd. But there at least torque steer in GT6 though.

I like the new physics, it just feels so much more natural. The tires feel better. On GT5 I'd be sliding around on comfort tires unrealistically but in this I can stay planted like I can in real life. It just feels much more realistic.

Ahh, just like what I in the Forza board. To me, I really does feel more natural. GT5's physics I couldn't really feel anything.

 

[Steph290]

You can't really disagree with test results, but okay. I've noted cars veering off-center on other (non-flat) tracks, absolutely, but on SSRX, every single car I've taken there, on all sorts of tire compounds, have launched arrow-straight.

Hmm, I really haven't tried SSRX yet, but I have noted on Silverstone, SSR5, and a few other tracks with a flat straight at the start that the cars will veer off to the left or right.

There are still so many inconsistencies to discover in GT6. I seem to not be running into any of the glitches others are running into: AI stopppies, corrupt data/freezing, rollovers (but that's driver/tuning error). This game is far from polished and I'm still expecting a lot to be updated over the coming weeks, but I am enjoying it in moderation. The feel of load placed on the suspension and the tire grip are by far the greatest improvements.

 

[ReverenceSatans]

There's something odd about SSRX that doesn't allow your to do torque steer, so wierd.

It's because the game does NOT simulate it. Plain and simple.

If torque steer was simulated, it would happen on a completely flat surface with no steering inputs. It wouldn't require a bumpy stretch of track.

 

[Grandi]

Ok, I'm on the Nürburgring on the small uphill straight just before Adenauer-Forst (I hope that's the correct name of the place as it said that on the Yokohama sign), as I get slightly on the left big curb the car flips on its side. I'm using SS tires and suspension on the Scirocco with the car modified to 492pp, the weight is as light as possible, and no skid recovery was used. It was surprisingly weird. I thought the videos here had modified car suspension that made it easy to flip. But ya it turned out they weren't lying. BTW I was playing in career mode. But how can I go into that section without touching the curb ? .. You can but you have to be a bit slower. Shame.

I wonder if you were on this particular recap...

 

[Nikked]

perhaps people are confusing the effect of the camber of the road with torque steer?

 

[ReverenceSatans]

perhaps people are confusing the effect of the camber of the road with torque steer?

This and only this.

 

[Imari]

There's something odd about SSRX that doesn't allow your to do torque steer, so wierd. But there at least torque steer in GT6 though.

Or there's something odd about other tracks that is provoking something that looks like torque steer. Like bumps, or slope.

Try this, go to somewhere that you think you're getting torque steer, and do the launch twice. Once normally, then once facing in the opposite direction. You may have to actually do it more than twice to get a decent idea, as it's going to be tough to be consistent with the placement of your launch after you spin the car around.

 

[TokoTurismo]

It's because the game does NOT simulate it. Plain and simple.

If torque steer was simulated, it would happen on a completely flat surface with no steering inputs. It wouldn't require a bumpy stretch of track.

Well if it doesn't, than why does it occur on other tracks and not SSRX? That's what I'm not getting.

Or there's something odd about other tracks that is provoking something that looks like torque steer. Like bumps, or slope.

Try this, go to somewhere that you think you're getting torque steer, and do the launch twice. Once normally, then once facing in the opposite direction. You may have to actually do it more than twice to get a decent idea, as it's going to be tough to be consistent with the placement of your launch after you spin the car around.

I did go to Monza once, and it seem like a flat surface track. I attempted it if torque steer would occur there, and it actually did. It's really strange. Maybe I can try at High Speed Ring as well, it's also a flat surfaced track.

EDIT: I've tried on Monza and there was torque steer. However, on HSR there wasn't any sadly.

 

[Wolfe]

Well I've asked this in a couple places already but it might help to figure out if it's a matter of camber/bumps or not.

Could someone confirm that a car will continue to roll straight without torque steer on Route X if you give the steering a tiny helpful nudge (with a joystick, no FFB interfering with the test)? Enthusia would act that way on a perfectly flat and level surface, but as soon as you woke it up, it would spin as it should.

Is it based only on gravity/bumpiness, or is it merely getting hung up on virtual flawlessness?

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I'm just about to load the game up for a little breather from a final project, so I'll test that out in a Viper, @Wolfe.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Wow, It actually works. So far I've done all three comfort tyres with the C7 Stingray, and gaved it a tiny nudge and it slowly torque steered. I'm going to try sports tyres next.

With Sports tyres, the hards remain giving my C7 torque steer after nudging the control stick. The meduims somewhat remain so as well, but with softs it turns alittle than goes straight.

 

[ron86]

You guys say that the cars have torgue steer (or whatever) on every track except ssrx - so whats the problem now?

Is everything you are doing in the game making standing starts on ssrx??

Do you just want the ultimate proof that this sliding to one direction isnt torque steer but comes from the track surface (of every other track)? Cant you just enjoy the way it is instead of playing sherlock holmes to find the mean mysteries of pd?

Have you thought that ssrx is designed to be the absoluty perfect place to test your cars performance without any bumps on the straight?
Dont you think in real life a car wont show torgue steer on such a perfect tarmac too?

 

[ReverenceSatans]

With Sports tyres, the hards remain giving my C7 torque steer after nudging the control stick. The meduims somewhat remain so as well, but with softs it turns alittle than goes straight.

FML...

That is not torque steer......

You guys say that the cars have torgue steer (or whatever) on every track except ssrx - so whats the problem now?

Is everything you are doing in the game making standing starts on ssrx??

Do you just want the ultimate proof that this sliding to one direction isnt torque steer but comes from the track surface (of every other track)? Cant you just enjoy the way it is instead of playing sherlock holmes to find the mean mysteries of pd?

Have you thought that ssrx is designed to be the absoluty perfect place to test your cars performance without any bumps on the straight?
Dont you think in real life a car wont show torgue steer on such a perfect tarmac too?

Torque steer should not only happen because of the camber or bumps on the track. It should always happen. If it doesn't always happen, that is because it's not simulated...

If it's not simulated, the "real driving simulator" is missing a basic vehicle dynamic and completely changes the way cars are driven in an unrealistic manner.

 

[TokoTurismo]

FML...

That is not torque steer......

Well. I tried. I thought that was what @Wolfe meant.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have driven powerful turbo RWD in real life, launched hard in 1st on the street light far too often when I was young and wild ( back in college days ), sometimes the car launched straight with slight steering wobble and I only have to hold the steering wheel firmly, sometimes it steered wildly in one direction and I have to let go off the gas slightly as well. It does not always happen, so many variables contribute to torque steer.

I will give this combo a try in GT6 soon, stock Stratos, Comfort Hard tire, no ABS :

Lancia Stratos '73 at Nurburgring GP/F, 2:47.090


It will be in premium

 

[H3avyM3tal]

You can't really disagree with test results, but okay. I've noted cars veering off-center on other (non-flat) tracks, absolutely, but on SSRX, every single car I've taken there, on all sorts of tire compounds, have launched arrow-straight.

I just a standing launch on SSRX with the 15 anni viper. It veered (to the left) like on other tracks I tried. Only thing on was ABS set to 1. Stock.

If I don't touch the wheel (g27), the cars dances some then straighten itself out. I check only 2 times, so...

 

[ron86]

FML...

Torque steer should not only happen because of the camber or bumps on the track. It should always happen. If it doesn't always happen, that is because it's not simulated...

If it's not simulated, the "real driving simulator" is missing a basic vehicle dynamic and completely changes the way cars are driven in an unrealistic manner.

No, Tourque steer shouldn happen always! I have made several standing starts with the 350z of a buddy and really, you doesnt allway get torgue steer!

Fact is, in GT6 i often needed to counter steer after a standing start because of the car sliding away, i dont care if its correct torgue steer or if its because the track surface - it feels great and this wasnt the case in GT5!

 

[TokoTurismo]

There really has to be something up with certain surfaces on tracks. I mean. I've parked my car on a spot where its surface was smooth over the bumpy one on Monza. It doesn't perform torque steer at all, just starts off slowly.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I just a standing launch on SSRX with the 15 anni viper. It veered (to the left) like on other tracks I tried. Only thing on was ABS set to 1. Stock.

If I don't touch the wheel (g27), the cars dances some then straighten itself out. I check only 2 times, so...

Odd, since I just used an SRT Viper too (the GTS Launch Edition, bumped up to 777hp), and launched perfectly straight every time. Tried in both directions, with Comfort Softs, Sports Hards, Sports Softs, and Racing Hards. For consistency purposes, these are all being done with a DS3, as I can assure there's absolutely no steering input.

@Wolfe - while the car is spinning it's tires, any steering inputs will initiate what you'd expect; the car will start rotating in that direction, even if it was a simple insta-tap followed by no further steering input.

 

[H3avyM3tal]

^I will upload a video after I get back from work. Could this be because you're using a controller and not a wheel?

 

[TokoTurismo]

@Wolfe - while the car is spinning it's tires, any steering inputs will initiate what you'd expect; the car will start rotating in that direction, even if it was a simple insta-tap followed by no further steering input.

Yes, I knew it. I did this myself with the C7, and it actually works as @Wolfe stated.

 

[super_gt]

It's because the game does NOT simulate it. Plain and simple.

If torque steer was simulated, it would happen on a completely flat surface with no steering inputs. It wouldn't require a bumpy stretch of track.

maybe in GT7 will be great fun with this simulation!

 

[Grandi]

It's because the game does NOT simulate it. Plain and simple.

If torque steer was simulated, it would happen on a completely flat surface with no steering inputs. It wouldn't require a bumpy stretch of track.

I'm guessing you're meaning that if torque steer was "simulated", it would be via a model containing some sort of randomized oscillation in the time series of torque going to the wheels that attempts to describe torsional vibration (that would effectively initialize the phenomenon)? I would be surprised if GT6 had this covered due to the large amount of very different vehicles, although this sort of implementation would be very simple indeed. Then again, if you wanted to really simulate the torsional vibration... that could get a bit tricky.

 

[super_gt]

KTM X-BOW R'12 Nurburgring Nordschleife,no aids,no ABS,real grip,stock,comfort tires.

 

[Bigbazz]

In my own car (FF) torque steer is something that I only get on uneven roads.

 

[Astro_BS-AS]

KTM X-BOW R'12 Nurburgring Nordschleife,no aids,no ABS,real grip,stock,comfort tires.

This is why I LOVE this series so much.... You can argue with anything you want, but this is the reason why GT is what it is...

 

[Astro_BS-AS]

Btw, (and please excuse my caveman-english) torque-steer happens mostly on FWD or AWD cars because of tire and road grip. In powerful RWD cars the wheels almost never have enough grip to make for enough friction for the wheel to have any difference. Just look at any top gear video with standing starts....

To test it in game first of all we have to put TCS and ABS to 0 just to avoid any ESP-like interaction. With ABS-1 you have a hidden ESP and you won´t / can´t have or notice any torque steer at all, except from the track surface or difference in wheel slip.

Where are you AMAR212 ?