Gran Turismo 6 vs Gran Turismo 5: Visual Damage Comparison

[Imari]

I could give you the link, but you're not a WMDMember, so it is a bit pointless for me to find the post.
And I refuse to quote any post that comes from that forum, I don't know if I'm allowed to.

Yeah, but some of us ARE WMD members, and so could at least confirm what you say.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Look, I would LOVE to have a damage system like Beam-NG Drive, but sadly I don't think it will happen. Yet GT5 and GT6's damage model working with each other in GT7 would provide a good level of realism, however that's not where the buck stops. In order to compete with the opposition, PD needs windows that can break, bumpers that go flying off after a high-speed impact and deformations in the body work that cause mechanical faults. Not to the same extent as Beam -NG of course, but you get the idea.

 

[c172fccc]

Yeah, but some of us ARE WMD members, and so could at least confirm what you say.

Well, if anyone wants the link, ask me by private message on the WMD Forum, my username is the same as here.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

To get even more realistic, if you hit a wall at 300+ km/h, the driver (you) should die, the driver's game career would be over, therefore you should start a new game file from scratch.

I would prefer something like the way Demon's Souls work, die, goes back to starting point ( nexus ), losing all the souls collected ( but items in inventory are intact ). In GT, a sim mode would allow a car to crash - ends in explosion of glory, the player loses the car permanently and the avatar died. You are given a choice to use previous avatar or create new one with everything ( progress ) carried over, minus the car that was written off and driver retirement in the race.

Demon Souls is one of the best game in terms of challenge, takes us back to the glory of early gaming days, where game completion can be satisfying experience filled with tears of joy

 

[Imari]

Well, if anyone wants the link, ask me by private message on the WMD Forum, my username is the same as here.

Done.

 

[NLxAROSA]

GT5 damage is absolutely ridiculous and GT6 damage less so, so I'll prefer the GT6 damage. That said, yet again this is a question of quality over quantity: you can't do realistic damage modeling with realistically breaking and falling-off parts for 1200+ cars. At least, I hope PD won't be trying that, because they will fail at it. I'd rather see them stick to what they have now and focus on other, more important features, rather than making another half-assed attempt.

Mechanical damage is a different story though IMO.

 

[Wiski_EK9]

I think gt5 was better because it had better Deformations of the car. Also the hanging bumpers were cool!

Ofcourse we dont want to Crash on a fast lap, but if you do, or collide with an opponent it would be cool to See löst bodywork etc. It's a must for GT7 - everything else would be riddiculous if you watch over 10 years old F1 challenge for PC which had a better damagemodell XD

Also it would be cool if the damage stays to your car and you have to repair it for the next race (think nfs-ps had such a System).

 

[VBR]

Not necessarily, the PS4 also has limitations that are very easy to rub up against, given what is required in a 2015 game. One only need look at the different paths Drive Club and Project Cars are taking to see that you can't have everything you want even on the PS4.

Good point. I have a funny feeling that PD might try & run the game at 4k then down sample it to 1080p, like what they've done with GT6. If they do that, then they might find themselves running out of power for other things such as damage. They do seem to like to put technical achievement over perceived visual quality.

 

[Wiski_EK9]

Good point. I have a funny feeling that PD might try & run the game at 4k then down sample it to 1080p, like what they've done with GT6. If they do that, then they might find themselves running out of power for other things such as damage. They do seem to like to put technical achievement over perceived visual quality.

Or maybe they simulate the whole movement of every galaxy, Stars and pl a nets for a 100% accurate sky

 

[GranTurismo guy]

That interview is Stefano Casillo, the developer of Assetto Corsa. They have Ferrari, Lotus, Lamborghini, BMW, Alfa Romeo, Mercedes and more, and he's telling you there are no restrictions on damaging the cars, only showing blood and guts and damage to virtual drivers. So unless you can find something in writing or a dev interview that says different or show that somehow a tiny developer like Assetto Corsa got an exception to the rule from some of the biggest manufacturers in the world, yeah, it's an urban myth.

It's like people just forget race driver grid, and the licenced cars and ruthless damage it featured.

 

[NixxxoN]

"Faster and cheaper". We know it's faster because they release a game every two years and their modeling output is far superior to PD. But cheaper? Do you have some proof of that? And on what do you base this, "clearly more arcade than GT" claim?
Sorry to hear that you don't exist. R.I.P.

Its definitely not far superior to PD, it might have more polygons and more resolution in forza 5 because its next gen, but still the cars really dont look better, they dont look that real-life like, they look like being a game, GT cars manage to feel and look more photorealistic..., and obviously its cheaper thats why they outsource, the outsourcing country salaries are far less expensive than american ones, its like companies that have the factories in china because their labour force is much cheaper.
And a game that when you take a corner says "good corner" and when you overtake says "good overtake".... well, it is laughable really, not to talk about the behavior of the cars, weird to say the least.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Its definitely not far superior to PD, it might have more polygons and more resolution in forza 5 because its next gen, but still the cars really dont look better, they dont look that real-life like, they look like being a game, GT cars manage to feel and look more photorealistic..., and obviously its cheaper thats why they outsource, the outsourcing country salaries are far less expensive than american ones, its like companies that have the factories in china because their labour force is much cheaper.
And a game that when you take a corner says "good corner" and when you overtake says "good overtake".... well, it is laughable really, not to talk about the behavior of the cars, weird to say the least.

Modelling output might not exactly mean that. @Johnnypenso what exactly did you mean by modelling output?

 

[Allek]

I guess professional flight sims don't show realistic crashes, but the word "crash" and the screen turns black.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its definitely not far superior to PD, it might have more polygons and more resolution in forza 5 because its next gen, but still the cars really dont look better, they dont look that real-life like, they look like being a game, GT cars manage to feel and look more photorealistic..., and obviously its cheaper thats why they outsource, the outsourcing country salaries are far less expensive than american ones, its like companies that have the factories in china because their labour force is much cheaper.
And a game that when you take a corner says "good corner" and when you overtake says "good overtake".... well, it is laughable really, not to talk about the behavior of the cars, weird to say the least.

I ask for proof and you give opinions.
If this is what qualifies as not life-like, and means I get a ton of DLC both paid and free, continuously after launch, I'll take not life-like any day of the week.

Modelling output might not exactly mean that. @Johnnypenso what exactly did you mean by modelling output?

I meant in terms of volume or number of cars. Output = volume. T10 is a virtual assembly line when it comes to DLC and churning out new cars.

 

[NixxxoN]

I ask for proof and you give opinions.
If this is what qualifies as not life-like, and means I get a ton of DLC both paid and free, continuously after launch, I'll take not life-like any day of the week.

Thats not life like, they're too glossy, too shiny.
But anyway, each to its own, if you're such a fan of forza why dont play it and stop complaining about gt6 stuff? I cant understand that.

 

[Imari]

Because it is true. Provide a link from a dev and we'll discuss it.

I'll confirm that there's information on WMD that indicates that different manufacturers have different levels of damage that they're willing to allow. The limit is obviously no damage to the passenger cell, as we've all known for years, but some manufacturers prefer some additional restrictions in addition to that.

I'm not going to say who or what, because I think that does violate what WMD allows me to say. But hopefully the above clarifies that while Kunos may not have had restrictions on their damage (which from memory is somewhat less extensive than pCARS), at least one other company does.

Given that GT and Forza have the most manufacturers to deal with, it's likely that both of them run into this problem to some extent. Although obviously pretty much all manufacturers will allow more damage than GT6 currently shows, because I'm pretty sure you can find games with more extensive damage for probably just about every manufacturer in GT6 (possibly not some of the weird, little manufacturers).

 

[c172fccc]

Thats not life like, they're too glossy, too shiny.

A real car can be shiny like this. The only problem is that it looks like they are made of (shiny) plastic, imo.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thats not life like, they're too glossy, too shiny.
But anyway, each to its own, if you're such a fan of forza why dont play it and stop complaining about gt6 stuff? I cant understand that.

We're discussing and comparing, not complaining. If you can't have a discussion without telling someone to go play another game (fail), perhaps this discussion isn't for you?

A real car can be shiny like this. The only problem is that it looks like they are made of (shiny) plastic, imo.

Of course, something well taken care of with many coats of wax will look just like that and I think that's the look they are trying to achieve. Other opinions may vary but if I had to choose between over 100 real car DLC/year and what we've got in GT5/6 the past 4 years, I'd choose the cars any day. What good are "perfect" cars when they are sitting on someone's PC in Japan? I can live with a little shiny so long as I get to drive the car.

I'll confirm that there's information on WMD that indicates that different manufacturers have different levels of damage that they're willing to allow. The limit is obviously no damage to the passenger cell, as we've all known for years, but some manufacturers prefer some additional restrictions in addition to that.

I'm not going to say who or what, because I think that does violate what WMD allows me to say. But hopefully the above clarifies that while Kunos may not have had restrictions on their damage (which from memory is somewhat less extensive than pCARS), at least one other company does.

Given that GT and Forza have the most manufacturers to deal with, it's likely that both of them run into this problem to some extent. Although obviously pretty much all manufacturers will allow more damage than GT6 currently shows, because I'm pretty sure you can find games with more extensive damage for probably just about every manufacturer in GT6 (possibly not some of the weird, little manufacturers).

Thanks for the confirmation. So it's safe to say that all the manufacturers allow for some damage, but the degree of damage varies? And the minimum allowable damage is equal to what I've seen on YT so far? Wheels coming off, suspensions falling apart, body damage etc. ?

 

[NLxAROSA]

Let's not turn this into a general GT vs Forza topic and keep the topic to damage. 👍 I guess the question has evolved from GT5 vs GT6 into: what kind of visual damage do we expect from GT7: expand on GT5, expand on GT6 or something different altogether?

 

[c172fccc]

And the minimum allowable damage is equal to what I've seen on YT so far? Wheels coming off, suspensions falling apart, body damage etc. ?

I don't think that the manufacturers really care about wheels coming off and broken suspensions, but they seems to care a lot more about the body damage.

 

[NixxxoN]

We're discussing and comparing, not complaining. If you can't have a discussion without telling someone to go play another game (fail), perhaps this discussion isn't for you?

Its more of a fail to always bring other games in comparsion in order to try bash GT, like i've seen you do lots of times.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its more of a fail to always bring other games in comparsion in order to try bash GT, like i've seen you do lots of times.

Going from, "go play another game", to, "personal attack" is Stage 2 Fail. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings to show what is possible for GT7 on the PS4/XBone. Perhaps you should go back to your PS3 until you're ready to discuss next gen gaming?

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

I honestly thought that GT5's damage system was better with GT6. I mean, it seems to be more realistic as some cars get their bumpers coming loose when they get more damaged and get wrecked looking body panels. The premium rally cars even lose parts such as the doors when getting wrecked. GT6 just has the cars getting dented for the most part, though the dents look better than GT5's.

Polyphony just seems to need to take GT5's damage system a step further within the next game by having more parts fall off on all of their cars and model the damaged parts better, then they'll be good. The only problem is that modelling cars may take longer, which is good that they're hiring more people then.

 

[NixxxoN]

Going from, "go play another game", to, "personal attack" is Stage 2 Fail. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings to show what is possible for GT7 on the PS4/XBone. Perhaps you should go back to your PS3 until you're ready to discuss next gen gaming?

I didnt do any personal attack, but nice try. How old are you btw? I get the feeling you are very young by the way you talk and the ideas you express.

 

[Imari]

I honestly thought that GT5's damage system was better with GT6. I mean, it seems to be more realistic as some cars get their bumpers coming loose when they get more damaged and get wrecked looking body panels. The premium rally cars even lose parts such as the doors when getting wrecked. GT6 just has the cars getting dented for the most part, though the dents look better than GT5's.

Polyphony just seems to need to take GT5's damage system a step further within the next game by having more parts fall off on all of their cars and model the damaged parts better, then they'll be good. The only problem is that modelling cars may take longer, which is good that they're hiring more people then.

I think the issue is always going to be the standard cars. They're not designed for damage, so the options are:

1. Spent time on each one modelling polygonal damage states, detachable parts, etc.
2. Make some sort of procedural system.

We've seen from GT5 that a procedural system just looks silly, because to have it really look good it would need a whole bunch of information about the underlying structure of the car and the materials to actually work. Basically, they'd be rebuilding the cars in BeamNG or equivalent anyway, and so they might as well just rebuild the whole car as a premium.

It's just another example of how standard cars drag the overall quality down. Polyphony really need to focus on getting the important and popular standards made into premiums. I'm sure they know which cars are important and popular, they have all the online data they need.

Get. It. Done. PD. Don't let your need to wave your willy around lumber GT7 with a crappy damage system.

 

[alexnipi]

few more pics (yes gt5 again )
this pics was from a old test when on a high speed corner i touch the grass then start losing the control and hit the barrier,on the replay looks like a real crash but the pics can't show it

 

[mister dog]

Go home BMW you're drunk!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didnt do any personal attack, but nice try. How old are you btw? I get the feeling you are very young by the way you talk and the ideas you express.

When you have nothing to contribute...infer the other guy is immature..fail 3.
Don't tell me, let me guess, next one is, "I bet my Dad could beat up your Dad", or the ever reliable, "I know you are but what am I?"

 

[The87Dodge]

Go home BMW you're drunk!

That is some pretty nasty looking damage. GT5 or GT6?

 

[magawolaz]

That is some pretty nasty looking damage. GT5 or GT6?

GT5. GT6 doesn't have deformation. Damage is pretty much made of scratch textures and reflections mimicking body deformation.

For low-speed collisions the result is not that bad. Someone could argue it's a step back from GT5 real-time damage I guess, but as the first reply said: whoever wins, we still lose.