Gran Turismo 7 Could Double GT Sport's Photo Scape Locations

[Baka_Marimo]

@ShiftingGears I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Adding new scapes requires only a fraction of the labour compared to adding a new track to the game (especially if it's a real world one) and tying up a few guys travelling around the world to take pictures won't take away one whole new track.

I see no evidence that over 1000 scapes isn't more than sufficient as is, and there's no numbers around how many people use scapes and how many scapes they use.

Even with what's currently in GT Sport, if you took photos at 3 different scapes a day, it would take you three years to get through them. Sure people would use some of them if they were there, but how many would really complain if they only added 100 for GT7?

The fact that you don't see evidence for it does not carry all that much weight because at this point it's more than obvious you have no interest in Photo Mode whatsoever and I'm getting the impression that you want PD to adhere to your personal preferences only. However as others have pointed out there is a sizable chunk of the playerbase which enjoys Photo Mode and as I demonstrated the Discover area in the game is vibrant. Nobody is going to use all 1000 scapes just as you aren't going to drive on all 82 tracks. The large number is supposed to give you more choice and increase the chances that anybody who wants to take pictures finds a setting they like. More choice is never a bad thing, regardless of whether you're talking about scapes or tracks.

 

[Racer93]

This is cool, but what PD really needs to double is the amount of tracks. Just saying...

Btw, a few scapes on South America and Africa would be nice.

 

[Nowax]

So if they're not struggling with budget, why does the franchise have less tracks than its smaller competitors, and why do they release delayed, incomplete games with lazy offline modes in perpetuity? Could it be that they put money in the wrong places?

Ok, let's play a game: If i were Kazunori, and my company, Polyphony Digital, is in bankrupcy, or let's just put it simply: I don't have enough budget, i wouldn't open a new studio.

And let's pretend your logic is the most reasonable one: why GT3 was smaller than GT2 content-wise if it was being developed on the so-called revolutionary Playstation 2?

By the way, isn't PD a first developer studio in SIE Worlwide Studios —Now called Playstation Studios—? PD can have all the money they want to make a new Gran Turismo, so certainly money isn't a problem for them, and to keep you entertained, Gran Turismo is the most profitable franchise of Playstation, so I don't know why you're so intrigued about their budget .

And it really seems that you don't know to read the main article. Let me copy-paste it for you:

Kanzaki: “GT Sport was released in autumn 2017, and we began shooting in 2015. So you’re shooting 1400 scenes in two years. And since the shooting is still in progress right now, Mr. Kitabatake has been working hard for five years.”

As you can see, the contract was that even when GTS finished his development, they should keep shooting photos 'till today, It's not that they re-hired the same people again for GT7. So of course, PD didn't lose any money with them, since they were working for 5 years in the same contract they had for GTS, maybe it's not exactly like that, but you can clearly see where am i going for when i say this .

 

[ArR29]

So if they're not struggling with budget, why does the franchise have less tracks than its smaller competitors, and why do they release delayed, incomplete games with lazy offline modes in perpetuity? Could it be that they put money in the wrong places?



I'm sure 30 photos is a proof of concept if you want to argue that. But 1800? That doesn't make sense to me.



Which makes their shortcomings in AI, tracklist, car list, game delays more inexcusable. They're taking the money and installing a gold-plated dashboard before fixing the spluttering engine and the worn brakes.



Track count applies equally to sport mode and offline mode, so no, it does not contradict my point.



Liveries are irrelevant here, because the livery editor is a feature and it's already been built, it's not like scapes where someone is salaried to create the content.



It doesn't make me think again, because I see no evidence that over 1000 scapes isn't more than sufficient as is, and there's no numbers around how many people use scapes and how many scapes they use.

Even with what's currently in GT Sport, if you took photos at 3 different scapes a day, it would take you three years to get through them. Sure people would use some of them if they were there, but how many would really complain if they only added 100 for GT7?

We may have more powerful and efficient console these days. But game development is far more demanding than ever. Just look at the output of major AAA developer like Rockstar and Bethesda during PS3 era compared this gen. We all know that GT doesn't have the most realistic physics or the best A.I but that shouldn't stop them from investing on other features in the game. If you want more strictly about racing there are dozens already available in the market. I have no idea why people want GT to be just like any other racing game.

 

[Dave A]

AI can do a lot of incredible things these days, like look at a photograph and determine where the floor is and what surfaces you can place a car, where the light sources are etc. I don't think it takes a lot of manual work to turn a photo into a scape. The hard work is travelling the world and taking the photos in the first place surely.

I can't see this influencing the number of cars or tracks that make the cut at all.

 

[AlbertaGamer]

Woo boy, I came here expecting people to whine and whine, I was not disappointed!

 

[WJHMH]

Why not have an option of adding in your own? That would be a lot of fun.

 

[NickXP]

I am happy because sometimes I spend hours in photo mode in GT Sport

 

[rex1825]

...have nothing against it, but instead of wasting time and money for developing these, they've could invest in something better TBH

 

[ShiftingGears]

Because just dumping money on a game doesn't necessarily make things happen any quicker, particularly if you're obsessive over details and are trying to avoid using legacy assets from previous games. PD isn't the fastest working studio out there which honestly shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point.

Yes but one of the reasons they aren't the fastest working studios is because they dont put the resources into those areas to make those aspects faster.

For instance here, no-one is complaining about PD being too slow with the amount of scape photos. Because they hire enough people to do that.

Cars and tracks are in a decent spot in GTS and we'll likely see plenty more of them in the next game. There's definitely gonna have a more robust singleplayer considering that it's an actual mainline title whilst GT Sport technically isn't one. The AI system itself is pretty decent but how much they decide to dumb them down is anyone's guess.

I seriously doubt any of this is going away because someone wanted to take more pictures.

I dare say that sending 2 people out to take photos hasn't really taken too much away from the dev team.

W

what makes you think this will affect other modes at all? Seems like a nice addition, it doesn’t mean they are purposely doing this instead of adding a new track or something

I'm not saying more scapes is a showstopper, I'm saying it does impact how good other features could be if PD took the money they're sinking into scapes and put it into someone who knows how to code AI or additional modellers. It's quite straightforward.

Ok, let's play a game: If i were Kazunori, and my company, Polyphony Digital, is in bankrupcy, or let's just put it simply: I don't have enough budget, i wouldn't open a new studio.

And let's pretend your logic is the most reasonable one: why GT3 was smaller than GT2 content-wise if it was being developed on the so-called revolutionary Playstation 2?

By the way, isn't PD a first developer studio in SIE Worlwide Studios —Now called Playstation Studios—? PD can have all the money they want to make a new Gran Turismo, so certainly money isn't a problem for them, and to keep you entertained, Gran Turismo is the most profitable franchise of Playstation, so I don't know why you're so intrigued about their budget .

All I'm saying is, if they have the money to put another 1800 scapes in the game, they have the money to put towards fixing their AI or adding tracks.

And it really seems that you don't know to read the main article. Let me copy-paste it for you:

Kanzaki: “GT Sport was released in autumn 2017, and we began shooting in 2015. So you’re shooting 1400 scenes in two years. And since the shooting is still in progress right now, Mr. Kitabatake has been working hard for five years.”

As you can see, the contract was that even when GTS finished his development, they should keep shooting photos 'till today, It's not that they re-hired the same people again for GT7. So of course, PD didn't lose any money with them, since they were working for 5 years in the same contract they had for GTS, maybe it's not exactly like that, but you can clearly see where am i going for when i say this .

That quote says nothing about the terms of his employment. You are making an assumption.

We may have more powerful and efficient console these days. But game development is far more demanding than ever. Just look at the output of major AAA developer like Rockstar and Bethesda during PS3 era compared this gen. We all know that GT doesn't have the most realistic physics or the best A.I but that shouldn't stop them from investing on other features in the game. If you want more strictly about racing there are dozens already available in the market. I have no idea why people want GT to be just like any other racing game.

That's my point, GT already has - roughly - 1000 more scapes than its competitors today. I think they've already got that base covered.

I think I've got my points across but I'll finish on this;

If scapes were as popular as some are claiming here, PD wouldntve needed to quickly squeeze GT league into the game weeks after launch, because players wouldve been happy with scapes.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

I don't know how or why anyone can think that the scape photographers continuing to shoot new scapes is a bad thing and is somehow taking time, money and manpower away from the car and environment modellers, they have no doubt also been working on content for years, and not just GT Sport updates.

I know this isn't particularly exciting news for many, and like me you would have preferred "GT7 could double Sports number of cars and tracks" or better: "GT7 will feature the return of the Daihatsu Midget II D-type and Red Rock Valley" but we'll have to wait a bit longer.

 

[Nowax]

I'm not saying more scapes is a showstopper, I'm saying it does impact how good other features could be if PD took the money they're sinking into scapes and put it into someone who knows how to code AI or additional modellers. It's quite straightforward.

How much does it impact exactly? You're telling me that i'm making assumptions, but you're doing the same thing, too. Do you know how many people are shooting photos for the scapes mode? Well, there's only one photographer, and that is Chikara Kitabatake, and yes, there are a lot of people that are working as a scapes developer, but did you know that most of them have other roles as well? For example, Masaaki Goto, he's been with Kazunori since Motor Toon GP. He's working as a stage designer, but he also works as a scape developer. Haruna Tanaka, car modeller artist, but also serves as a scape developer. There's only like 7 people working at full-time on the scapes as of Gran Turismo Sport, so I'm assumpting (Yes, I AM assumpting, and i won't regret it!) that they have the same roles as in Gran Turismo Sport for the 7 because you can't deny that GTS is just a prologue of 7, so you're telling me that those 7 people are sucking all the budget of PD, when they could instead invest it on a modeller or another AI coder? Wow, do you even know what recruiting is? It's not that PD is actively looking for someone to join them, It's only a matter of people wanting to join them... hey, maybe you can join them! so you can work as an AI coder, or a modeller, maybe both! the benefits are that you won't ever complain about the AI or lack of cars/tracks, since you know what you're doing to improve those two aspects. Here you go, a link for applying to PD.

 

[Mr P510]

I'm as exited at this as I am Playstation Stability Updates.

 

[Sharpie]

Gran Turismo 7 Could Double GT Sport's Photo Scape Locations : Not interested.
Gran Turismo 7 Could Double GT Sport's car count yes bring it on.

 

[fernandito]

I'd wish this Yamauchi Dinosaur focused on improving physics and developing a proper tyre model rather than on this..., useless stuff.

 

[o000o]

I'd wish this Yamauchi Dinosaur focused on improving physics and developing a proper tyre model rather than on this..., useless stuff.

"GT is for racing, adding photo mode is pointless it contributes nothing to racing". Don't be a purist regarding that, there's no limit of what to add in the games. GT is not merely racing, it's automotive appreciation, photo mode is also a form of that, and numerous other games also has that.

 

[TS050]

I'd wish this Yamauchi Dinosaur focused on improving physics and developing a proper tyre model rather than on this..., useless stuff.

I promise you the people that work on bringing scapes into the game have nothing to do with the physics model of the game

 

[matrix_gt1]

Yes but one of the reasons they aren't the fastest working studios is because they dont put the resources into those areas to make those aspects faster.

For instance here, no-one is complaining about PD being too slow with the amount of scape photos. Because they hire enough people to do that.







I'm not saying more scapes is a showstopper, I'm saying it does impact how good other features could be if PD took the money they're sinking into scapes and put it into someone who knows how to code AI or additional modellers. It's quite straightforward.



All I'm saying is, if they have the money to put another 1800 scapes in the game, they have the money to put towards fixing their AI or adding tracks.



That quote says nothing about the terms of his employment. You are making an assumption.



That's my point, GT already has - roughly - 1000 more scapes than its competitors today. I think they've already got that base covered.

I think I've got my points across but I'll finish on this;

If scapes were as popular as some are claiming here, PD wouldntve needed to quickly squeeze GT league into the game weeks after launch, because players wouldve been happy with scapes.

GT Sport was never meant to be GT7. Ever. So yes they misjudged massively the amount of people who just wanted to play offline but it’s not like they said “ok we are gonna put in Scapes but leave out single player.” It wasn’t a one or the other type thing. They could of done both easily if that was their aim but it wasn’t.

While I agree AI isn’t where it needs to be. It doesn’t make sense that money is the issue. It is possible that the people working on the AI are not given enough time? I look at the Dragon Ball Super Anime.. especially when it first came out... it had some of the best animators out there, but because of stupid time restrictions... they had to do so much in just a small amount of time resulting in really bad animation. Now We know how long it takes to make one car in GT now.. it’s months. So it’s possible by the time the AI guys get it.. they don’t get much time to do anything.

Or another big possibility and what is probably more like is it’s just not a priority to Kaz.
Japanese companies tend to handle fan requests in a very different way to the rest of the world. They will always priorities their vision first.

 

[Samus]

It is possible that the people working on the AI are not given enough time?

They've had almost 25 years....

Also, the 3D models have little to do with AI. They can be programmed with anything as the visual model, you don't need to do something unique for every different model.

 

[ArR29]

I don't think money and resources have something to do with their A.I. Imo, it's about implementation and game design/philosophy. I feel like PD didn't design their game for pure racing but for you to win every single race, earn credits and collect as much cars as possible. That's why the A.I in GT are so passive and act like a road block rather than have a competitive race with the player.

 

[FoRiZon]

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. Adding new scapes requires only a fraction of the labour compared to adding a new track to the game (especially if it's a real world one) and tying up a few guys travelling around the world to take pictures won't take away one whole new track.

Also worth pointing out is that in GTSport, every new tracks that got added is almost always accompanied with the correlating Scapes. I believe all real world tracks got one while some fantasy tracks got the Scapes that related by its tracks environment.

Regardless whatever the scapes feature exists or not, reference photos will still have to be taken anyway. Scapes is really just a bit of extra spice for PD from said photos.

 

[fernandito]

They've had almost 25 years....

Also, the 3D models have little to do with AI. They can be programmed with anything as the visual model, you don't need to do something unique for every different model.

Absolutely. An entire career with Sony backing him up, and still his sim has the worst physics out of all, and literally no tyre model but very tiny suspension improvements carried over the ps3 gt5-6 era. And the AI?, no time to imrpove it in 25 years too with the budget no other developer enjoys from Sony?, come on..

Yamauchi is what we back home call a scrounger. He has all the money he wants to back him up, yet his "sim" won't improve on the high scale that should be expected for soo many years already of this existing franchise. It's always just about the graphics and photorrealism with this man, and we're talking about what in the end is a racing game, that calls himself "The Real Driving Simulator".

This guy in a way is like Kojima, with of course the exception of the aforementioned indeed making his games to evolve as opposed to Yamauchi. Just like Kojima might have better off dedicated himself to making movies, as it is his true passion it's most obvious (regardless we may like his games more or not, but they are all of very high quality and evolved from predecessors), Yamauchi might as well have dedicated himself to photography, but his products won't evolve as opposed to Kojima. Only on the photorealistic department.

Jeez and everything points out to GT7 still not having a proper tyre model which would be the minimum stuff to expect... oh well Sony, keep feeding this guy and closing top quality studios like Evolution.

 

[matrix_gt1]

Absolutely. An entire career with Sony backing him up, and still his sim has the worst physics out of all, and literally no tyre model but very tiny suspension improvements carried over the ps3 gt5-6 era. And the AI?, no time to imrpove it in 25 years too with the budget no other developer enjoys from Sony?, come on..

Yamauchi is what we back home call a scrounger. He has all the money he wants to back him up, yet his "sim" won't improve on the high scale that should be expected for soo many years already of this existing franchise. It's always just about the graphics and photorrealism with this man, and we're talking about what in the end is a racing game, that calls himself "The Real Driving Simulator".

This guy in a way is like Kojima, with of course the exception of the aforementioned indeed making his games to evolve as opposed to Yamauchi. Just like Kojima might have better off dedicated himself to making movies, as it is his true passion it's most obvious (regardless we may like his games more or not, but they are all of very high quality and evolved from predecessors), Yamauchi might as well have dedicated himself to photography, but his products won't evolve as opposed to Kojima. Only on the photorealistic department.

Jeez and everything points out to GT7 still not having a proper tyre model which would be the minimum stuff to expect... oh well Sony, keep feeding this guy and closing top quality studios like Evolution.

I gave 2 possible reasons why, you agree with the second reason.

The thing is man, sure GT isn’t as popular as it used to be but it still has some special sauce... I still prefer it over Forza. And it’s more fun to me than your PC’s and ACC and Iracing.

no it isn’t as sim as others out there but it definitely doesn’t feel arcade either.

And saying “they have had 25 years.” Yes and the physics engine And AI are light years better than GT1. So it’s not like they haven’t done anything. it is clear though that they haven’t done enough with its physics engine and AI compared to other developers.

Japanese developers often focus completely on their vision leaving fans to either like or hate it. I kinda respect it personally. There are other titles doing the things people here want. GT has and will always do its own thing. Like Nintendo in a way.

 

[fernandito]

And it’s more fun to me than your PC’s and ACC and..

Mine?

And saying “they have had 25 years.” Yes and the physics engine And AI are light years better than GT1. So it’s not like they haven’t done anything.

Clearly not enough when when backed up with a budget always as great as this man would requiere, as opposed to every single other developer out there, who made their respective sims to actually evolve.

Japanese developers often focus completely on their vision leaving fans to either like or hate it. I kinda respect it personally. There are other titles doing the things people here want. GT has and will always do its own thing. Like Nintendo in a way.

Yeah I understand most of Japanese devs are like that, but man..., not all of them have enjoyed, and again I have to say, being backed up by as big budgets as they'd have wanted.

Demanding Yamauchi to actually level up the sim aspects of GT after goddamn 25 years should be seen as a simple matter of self-respect as a GT fan, which I have been too since day 1, back then when gaming was..., better, in a way. In that way.

 

[matrix_gt1]

Mine?

it’s an expression

 

[Quakebass]

or better: "GT7 will feature the return of the Daihatsu Midget II D-type”

This would be the best news I’ve received in years.

 

[LOonIE]

Hope they're optional the SSD isnt too large...

My thought, too.
I hope, they are cloud based and you can download the scape, you just need and keep or delete it afterwards.

 

[Sage Ages]

I don't think money and resources have something to do with their A.I. Imo, it's about implementation and game design/philosophy. I feel like PD didn't design their game for pure racing but for you to win every single race, earn credits and collect as much car as possible. That's why the A.I in GT are so passive and act like a road block rather than have a competitive race with the player.

This is a common phenomenon I've been noticing. The AI in most racing games is more than competent, but are usually either handicapped or toned down in some way. The AI in GT never really gets too aggressive outside of maybe B-Spec.

 

[nickf1gr]

More tracks locations; more countries with famous locations and a better 3D moving of camera. These are my expectations for happy photoshooting!!!!

 

[Auditore]

I suppose each department has a budget,and they spend what they have,i don't think the photo guys are ruining the track devs