Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[Mathaios_C]

I think both of you need to put GT5/6 in your old ps3 and then come back here again.

 

[ICEYOU3]

I'm not even sure if that's supposed to be a bad thing. The models PD created in GT6 still look amazing to this day. I won't mind if they use the PS3 premium models as standard cars in GT7 but that's not really a good idea because most people wouldn't like having PS3 assets on their new console.



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Yeah Kaz wasn't kidding about his car models lasting up to a decade, he was very much correct.

 

[Emet_PL]

I think both of you need to put GT5/6 in your old ps3 and then come back here again.

I did... I also made video comparison on my YT channel containing GT5: Prologue, GT5, GT6 and GT: Sport. Anyway... I know what I'm talking about and btw. you have screenshots a couple of posts earlier showing one of the worst examples of low poly model in game in GT Sport.

 

[turk1993]

Looks like a tessellation bug to me or it wasn't properly working. GT6 has the same thing in 3rd person view.
Polygon count will adapt depending on how demanding the scenes are.

Idk, but honestly not a big deal to me when the game runs smoothly. Go back and play GT6 you would wish they downgraded some of the aspect of the game because it runs so bad and it's unplayable sometimes. They made a lot of compromise to run GTSport at 60fps while making it look good overall. And mind you this game was developed for competitive online racing in mind so performance is probably more important to them than having crazy visuals. I mean they can push the PS4 to its limit if they want to but I don't think the players would appreciate if there are screen tearing and input lag while racing in Sport Mode.

Its no a bug, its on all the cars. I have a thread about it where you can see the difference between photomode and in game lod. And there is a performance mode for that. Why include a performance mode when you gonna make this much compromises, also its just 1 car on a empty track. So again nothing to do with power.

You lost me when you said some of the car models (I presume in GT Sport) were "literally PS3 quality".

No they are not. If you want to make a point, don't use words like "literally" right before you make a gross exaggeration.

I said in game, read it again. There photomode and scape car models are the best in any game, but in game ( gameplay) they are the worst. I will post some examples later and you will see what i mean and no its not lod bug.

I think both of you need to put GT5/6 in your old ps3 and then come back here again.

I think you need to play more GTS to see the lower lods i think.

 

[Dave A]

So we're comparing in-race assets (which is what I originally read and understood). Here:

In every single one of these images there are clear improvements to the quality of the car model in GT Sport despite GT sport running at twice the FPS of either GT5 or GT6.

I can also confirm, having extensively played all 3 games recently my experience is the same, the car models in game are better in GT Sport than the equivilent in GT5/6.

 

[JTB10000]

GT5 and 6 tried for 60fps too but rarely were able to hit it.

 

[ICEYOU3]

So we're comparing in-race assets (which is what I originally read and understood). Here:

View attachment 1070778
View attachment 1070779
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In every single one of these images there are clear improvements to the quality of the car model in GT Sport despite GT sport running at twice the FPS of either GT5 or GT6.

I can also confirm, having extensively played all 3 games recently my experience is the same, the car models in game are better in GT Sport than the equivilent in GT5/6.

Maybe their tech is just outdated and needs a major overhaul.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Top that Forza Horizon! Animal dismemberment!

I would prefer if animals simply slumped over and died the second they hit your vehicle, ala Far Cry 2. Even when parked and not moving.

 

[turk1993]

So we're comparing in-race assets (which is what I originally read and understood). Here:

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In every single one of these images there are clear improvements to the quality of the car model in GT Sport despite GT sport running at twice the FPS of either GT5 or GT6.

I can also confirm, having extensively played all 3 games recently my experience is the same, the car models in game are better in GT Sport than the equivilent in GT5/6.

The difference you see in those video's are from lighting and shaders, you just prove my point the model (lod) itself looks almost identical outside the standard supra (which was a PS2 car quality in a PS3 game). And those are some low rez captures to see the difference properly.
Here have a look how much lower the quality of those cars are in game (watch them on a tv/screen instead of mobile you will notice it immediately)
in game

photomode

in game

photomode

ingame

photomode

GT5 and 6 tried for 60fps too but rarely were able to hit it.

This is true but we have a performance mode for a reason and with 1 car on the track it shouldn't be a problem because it can look really ugly sometimes like the FT which is extreme.

 

[ArR29]

The difference you see in those video's are from lighting and shaders, you just prove my point the model (lod) itself looks almost identical outside the standard supra (which was a PS2 car quality in a PS3 game). And those are some low rez captures to see the difference properly.
Here have a look how much lower the quality of those cars are in game (watch them on a tv/screen instead of mobile you will notice it immediately)
in game

photomode

in game

photomode

ingame

photomode

This is true but we have a performance mode for a reason and with 1 car on the track it shouldn't be a problem because it can look really ugly sometimes like the FT which is extreme.

The average console gamers are few feet away from their monitor, unless you play GTSport like this

I highly doubt you'd notice those jagged edges, and less detailed LOD. A lot of sports games do that tbh, FIFA, PES, NBA 2k they lower the LOD during gameplay for a more consistent performance.

 

[turk1993]

The average console gamers are few feet away from their monitor, unless you play GTSport like this View attachment 1071412
I highly doubt you'd notice those jagged edges, and less detailed LOD. A lot of sports games do that tbh, FIFA, PES, NBA 2k they lower the LOD during gameplay for a more consistent performance.

Lol, im sitting 1m from my 55 inch 4K OLED. I use it for my pc and playstation so im always sitting close. And believe me i notice it very easy without even looking for it. And again the game already has a performance mode for steady fps and believe me with 1 car on the track they can easily use a higher lod. I do mostly hot laps so it would be really appreciated if they would use a higher quality lod when possible.

Even Forza motorsport 4 did it on the 360 (highest lod on track)
look at the interior in FM4 vs interior in GTS in gameplay
Forza Motorsport 4 on Xbox 360

vs
GTS on PS4 PRO

vs
GTS Photomode

Again do you think this is normal, you don't need to sit close or have a big screen to see this.

 

[Sojiira]

Those are worst case scenarios obv. But there are too many of them and its jarring for a game with this status. And i don't want to drag this too long and like you said sorry for the WALL OF TEXT. Im gonna stop with this and gonna focus on the good things because its GT, im gonna get it anyway and enjoy it regardless how it looks.

No please, continue 😂

I said in game, read it again. There photomode and scape car models are the best in any game, but in game ( gameplay) they are the worst. I will post some examples later and you will see what i mean and no its not lod bug.

Can always hotlap in cockpit mode if its that bothersome.


But it is interesting how different lods are for different cars. I would guess part of it is artist dependent with some leaning more conservative in polycount vs the auto generated ones.

During gameplay each camera mode runs a different lod interior/exterior, so cockpit view runs a super basic exterior and vice versa. Though the game can easily handle more details as a whole as Whistle Snap has shown the game with headroom / running 38 cars in the rain on the base ps4. Running the photo camera during gameplay loads both the higher quality interior/exterior and runs fine.

Who knows why they couldnt have the 3rd person cam run higher lods on the Pro when hotlapping at least. It is what it is. There are many things that are a mystery in GTS's development. But it all makes me intrigued how GT7 will turn out. Cant wait for more news!

 

[DefNotJake]

No please, continue 😂

Can always hotlap in cockpit mode if its that bothersome.


But it is interesting how different lods are for different cars. I would guess part of it is artist dependent with some leaning more conservative in polycount vs the auto generated ones.

During gameplay each camera mode runs a different lod interior/exterior, so cockpit view runs a super basic exterior and vice versa. Though the game can easily handle more details as a whole as Whistle Snap has shown the game with headroom / running 38 cars in the rain on the base ps4. Running the photo camera during gameplay loads both the higher quality interior/exterior and runs fine.

Who knows why they couldnt have the 3rd person cam run higher lods on the Pro when hotlapping at least. It is what it is. There are many things that are a mystery in GTS's development. But it all makes me intrigued how GT7 will turn out. Cant wait for more news!

That higher quality exterior looks fantastic. Can't see any polygons, even the paint scrape textures look good. Hopefully it looks that great on GT7 without it getting shafted in-favor of ray-tracing and 120FPS modes.

The average console gamers are few feet away from their monitor, unless you play GTSport like this View attachment 1071412
I highly doubt you'd notice those jagged edges, and less detailed LOD. A lot of sports games do that tbh, FIFA, PES, NBA 2k they lower the LOD during gameplay for a more consistent performance.

My living room couch is roughly 3 meters away from my TV, and even I notice it. It's very inconsistent, but on cars like the MKIII Supra, it's very distracting in chase cam. That's what happens when the game runs at a high resolution, and the chase cam is super close to the rear of the car. You are going to notice all the details and inperfections, and if you can't... you probably need glasses or a better monitor.

If they had a graphical option on PS4 Pro/PS5 to decrease resolution to get better car LOD's, I would have used it all the time. No point playing in higher resolution if the game isn't going to look that great.

 

[Imari]

So we're comparing in-race assets (which is what I originally read and understood). Here:

View attachment 1070778
View attachment 1070779
View attachment 1070780
View attachment 1070781

In every single one of these images there are clear improvements to the quality of the car model in GT Sport despite GT sport running at twice the FPS of either GT5 or GT6.

I can also confirm, having extensively played all 3 games recently my experience is the same, the car models in game are better in GT Sport than the equivilent in GT5/6.

Clear improvements in the model? Because I can absolutely see the improvements in the lighting and materials, but I'd have to start zooming in to try and pinpoint anything that's a clear model improvement, at which point I'm not sure how clear it is. In motion while playing the game, I'm not sure I could pick the difference between a PS3 model and a PS4 model if they're both running in the GTS lighting system. This isn't to say that there aren't improvements in the model, just that they're below the point where they're easily perceptible - such as was the case going from PS1->PS2 or PS2->PS3.

This is the stage that we're at with computer games these days - we've mostly hit the point of diminishing returns with regards to poly count, which is why the graphics tech that is all the rage is to do with lighting and materials. Smart developers will (rightly) put spare graphics horsepower to work on lighting and materials rather than increasing poly counts. Hopefully Polyphony realises that there's better things to do with their time than making 100k poly bolts and screws.

 

[Dave A]

Clear improvements in the model? Because I can absolutely see the improvements in the lighting and materials, but I'd have to start zooming in to try and pinpoint anything that's a clear model improvement, at which point I'm not sure how clear it is. In motion while playing the game, I'm not sure I could pick the difference between a PS3 model and a PS4 model if they're both running in the GTS lighting system. This isn't to say that there aren't improvements in the model, just that they're below the point where they're easily perceptible - such as was the case going from PS1->PS2 or PS2->PS3.

This is the stage that we're at with computer games these days - we've mostly hit the point of diminishing returns with regards to poly count, which is why the graphics tech that is all the rage is to do with lighting and materials. Smart developers will (rightly) put spare graphics horsepower to work on lighting and materials rather than increasing poly counts. Hopefully Polyphony realises that there's better things to do with their time than making 100k poly bolts and screws.

Aboslutely, they aren't huge improvements, but improvements are clearly there. On the Supra for example, look at the rear bumper in GT Sport compared to GT5/6, day and night difference in model quality.

It is a bit harder to spot on some of the other models because the lighting takes away some of the details in GT5/6 in those pics, but similar differences are present, around the wheel arches and bumpers most notably where you can clearly see the GT Sport models are made up of more polygons.

I do agree with your final point, we are definitely at a point of diminishing returns when it comes to polygon count, this is something I've said many times and the key improvements we will see form PS4-PS5 etc. will be the scale of the games levels, volume of content present, 4k at 60fps and the lighting and effects. We're certainly unlikely to see jumps as large as the ones we say when we went from the PS1 to PS2 or even PS2 to PS3 for that matter. The difference in model detail quality rather than texture and lighting quality between generation as has gotten smalled over time.

 

[Imari]

Aboslutely, they aren't huge improvements, but improvements are clearly there. On the Supra for example, look at the rear bumper in GT Sport compared to GT5/6, day and night difference in model quality.

Maybe you're looking at the original images rather than the 800x450 compressed jpg that GTP gives out. Yeah, the lighting blends a bit better on the Supra's bumper but is that the model? Is it the lighting and shadowing method? Is it tesselation? Is it just the time of day and ambient lighting being different? You're not getting a definitive answer out of a single static 800x450 image, there simply isn't enough information.

I think you know what you're looking for because you've seen it at higher resolution and in motion, where it's probably much clearer. From those single images saying anything as a certainty is pretty hard, and saying it's a night and day difference is just not truthful. In motion at full res maybe, if I go and watch videos I can see the differences. But you can't justify that statement based on only the images that you've presented. Standard models and Premium models on PS3 were night and day - it was impossible to confuse them unless they were very far away even in tiny thumbnails. This? Nah.

Take better pictures that actually show the differences or just use video. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that the evidence that you're showing people to back up your argument is wildly unconvincing.

 

[Emet_PL]

Aboslutely, they aren't huge improvements, but improvements are clearly there. On the Supra for example, look at the rear bumper in GT Sport compared to GT5/6, day and night difference in model quality.
[...]

How to say it.... Supra model in GT5 / GT6 was taken straight from the GT3 / GT4 (from PlayStation 2) so it's obvious that you see improvements in GT Sport with brand new premium model.

 

[Dave A]

Maybe you're looking at the original images rather than the 800x450 compressed jpg that GTP gives out. Yeah, the lighting blends a bit better on the Supra's bumper but is that the model? Is it the lighting and shadowing method? Is it tesselation? Is it just the time of day and ambient lighting being different? You're not getting a definitive answer out of a single static 800x450 image, there simply isn't enough information.

I think you know what you're looking for because you've seen it at higher resolution and in motion, where it's probably much clearer. From those single images saying anything as a certainty is pretty hard, and saying it's a night and day difference is just not truthful. In motion at full res maybe, if I go and watch videos I can see the differences. But you can't justify that statement based on only the images that you've presented. Standard models and Premium models on PS3 were night and day - it was impossible to confuse them unless they were very far away even in tiny thumbnails. This? Nah.

Take better pictures that actually show the differences or just use video. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that the evidence that you're showing people to back up your argument is wildly unconvincing.

Valid points, however I'm going to park it here. It's important to remember the original claim is that the car models in race in GT Sport are the same ones as in race on the PS3 therefore the burden of proof does not lie with me, it lies with the original claim.

Lighting and shadows and tessellation and massive factors certainly, but I can see more sharp angles in the car models in GT5 and GT6 than in GT Sport in general.

There are a lot of things to consider, you have the showroom LOD's, photomode, standard and premium cars on PS3 so there are many ways a comparison can be unfair deliberately or not.

If this debate continues I may at some point be able to provide a better comparison, however half my house is packed into boxes right now so it won't be soon.

 

[Chris30]

Are there any YT videos where I can see what GT7 will look like? I mean are there any good tutorial vids?

 

[Samus]

Are there any YT videos where I can see what GT7 will look like? I mean are there any good tutorial vids?

A tutorial on how do to what?

 

[Chris30]

A tutorial on how do to what?

A tutorial on how do to what?

Well choose the right car for the events, license, learn every aspect of all the tracks featured, and mainly how to spend your credits(money).

 

[Samus]

Well choose the right car for the events, license, learn every aspect of all the tracks featured, and mainly how to spend your credits(money).

Well, no. Nobody knows anything about GT7 yet beyond the trailer from a year ago.

 

[Imari]

A tutorial on how do to what?

See into the future.

 

[Ryanswannell]

Why has this thread descended into a load of waffle about trees?

GT7 has much more pressing issues at hand to make me want to purchase the game at full price.
Little things like some decent AI to race against and varying weather conditions.

Gran Turismo has fallen way behind other racing games ever since the PS3 era and I don't think some higher quality trees is going to affect that.

 

[05XR8]

Unfortunately (maybe not the right word), trees have been part of any GT discussion, in the 9 years since I joined. Serious business to those concerned. Can't just sweep it under the virtual rug.
There are threads about AI and weather conditions as well.

I'd like to cancel my PS+, due to a proper Arcade/GT League/Simulation Mode(if that doesn't involve Sport Mode type events). If the replayability is high, I won't feel the need to venture Sport Mode.

 

[Darla Starch]

Why has this thread descended into a load of waffle about trees?

Gran Turismo subforum tradition of petty arguments while waiting for more solid news.

 

[Nowax]

Lol, im sitting 1m from my 55 inch 4K OLED. I use it for my pc and playstation so im always sitting close. And believe me i notice it very easy without even looking for it. And again the game already has a performance mode for steady fps and believe me with 1 car on the track they can easily use a higher lod. I do mostly hot laps so it would be really appreciated if they would use a higher quality lod when possible.

You can barely see anything on-screen in that AE composition!

 

[emula]

The difference you see in those video's are from lighting and shaders, you just prove my point the model (lod) itself looks almost identical outside the standard supra (which was a PS2 car quality in a PS3 game). And those are some low rez captures to see the difference properly.
Here have a look how much lower the quality of those cars are in game (watch them on a tv/screen instead of mobile you will notice it immediately)
in game

photomode

in game

photomode

ingame

photomode

This is true but we have a performance mode for a reason and with 1 car on the track it shouldn't be a problem because it can look really ugly sometimes like the FT which is extreme.

Most of the cars have a perfect lod ingame, only a certain number of cars have lod problems ingame. They have to fix only those cars in GT7. The cars below are the proof that the PS4 il full capable to render very high lod even ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

Photomode

Ingame

 

[Emet_PL]

These are good but still clearly less detailed than the photo mode models. For PS5 they should use the GT Sport photo mode models in game and GT Sport menu/scapes models in photo mode.

 

[Imari]

Why has this thread descended into a load of waffle about trees?

Because this is what happens when GTP is waiting for information about a new game. Until Polyphony gives us something else to talk about, we're stuck with whatever they've already put out.

Also, trees in GT are a meme that is almost on the level of vacuum cleaner sounds even if neither of them are really that true any more.