Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[Samus]

In a way yes but much harder and I want the low powered races to be hard.
I hate they associate hard difficulty with higher power, I want harder difficulty on OEM cars Sunday cup races.
If I want a new sports eggsauce that add 3bhp for my 1990s JDM shizzbox, I want to have to work hard for it in a clubman cup race and win. That's the best part of GT, the beginning bit. It's just over within a few hours and races become dull with race cars been the extreme.

Yes, this has always been a problem and was really obvious with GT Sport. They split the events into the broad beginner/amateur/professional categories so you had no choice in the difficulty for different events. Like the Clio Cup event? Beginners only, sorry. Want to do some Group 4 races against the best AI? No sorry, beginners only again. It was absurd. I mean sure, the GTS AI at its best was still dire, but that's not the point. Even Gr.3 was only Amateur level, Professional level was Gr.1 only (In terms of the groups).

I know it's cliche but it's 2021, this old fashioned rigid game design should be a thing of the past. I can't think of any other modern racing game where you can't adjust the difficulty for any event, where it's fixed no matter what. If I want to start out racing against the best AI possible, I should be able to. If people want to keep it beginner throughout, they also should be able to. Choice. Options.

I don't see it happening though, because PD. I'm fully expecting GT7 to remain fixed difficulty.

 

[JTB10000]

Their logic is probably that you can just use one of the many slower cars in their vast encyclopedia of cars if it's not enough of a challenge, evident by the bonus you get in GTS for using a car under the max allowed class.

This is another thing I want brought up in a more "confrontational" interview if the chance arises: "GT has always had a career mode that can't be adjusted, so more experienced players don't have a challenge until hours into the game. Has an adjustable career mode where even Sunday Cup can be difficult ever been considered?".

Though the answer will probably chalked up to GT tradition and "use a slower car because we have so many to choose from".

 

[RACECAR]

Somehow as usual, I don't see a "Confrontational" interview happening anytime soon. All parties are abit too comfortable for questions that are alot more honest and candid (Though I am absolutely fine with being proven wrong as Lewis Hamilton managed to do six times )

 

[ScottPuss20]

Yes, this has always been a problem and was really obvious with GT Sport. They split the events into the broad beginner/amateur/professional categories so you had no choice in the difficulty for different events. Like the Clio Cup event? Beginners only, sorry. Want to do some Group 4 races against the best AI? No sorry, beginners only again. It was absurd. I mean sure, the GTS AI at its best was still dire, but that's not the point. Even Gr.3 was only Amateur level, Professional level was Gr.1 only (In terms of the groups).

I know it's cliche but it's 2021, this old fashioned rigid game design should be a thing of the past. I can't think of any other modern racing game where you can't adjust the difficulty for any event, where it's fixed no matter what. If I want to start out racing against the best AI possible, I should be able to. If people want to keep it beginner throughout, they also should be able to. Choice. Options.

I don't see it happening though, because PD. I'm fully expecting GT7 to remain fixed difficulty.

There are benefits to slowly upping the difficulty as you progress through the game. It helps you to build confidence and skills that you will be able to exploit in harder, longer events. You really feel like you're moving up which only gives you further motivation to continue. Always having it easy or hard removes that aspect of the gameplay completely. If you have a more linear game like Assetto Corsa Competizione which only focuses on ONE discipline, it makes perfect sense to have a consistent difficulty because you're always racing the same cars. This is not the case in Gran Turismo where you have a large variety of cars from hot hatches to prototypes. Difficulty should be scaled accordingly; you don't want to waste hours doing the Sunday Cup...

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

Somehow as usual, I don't see a "Confrontational" interview happening anytime soon.

(INTERIOR, INTERROGATION ROOM)
bad cop shines lamp in Translator-san's face
Bad cop: "Where's the car list!?
Good cop:"Take your time, let's just start with Kei cars..."

 

[Samus]

There are benefits to slowly upping the difficulty as you progress through the game. It helps you to build confidence and skills that you will be able to exploit in harder, longer events. You really feel like you're moving up which only gives you further motivation to continue. Always having it easy or hard removes that aspect of the gameplay completely. If you have a more linear game like Assetto Corsa Competizione which only focuses on ONE discipline, it makes perfect sense to have a consistent difficulty because you're always racing the same cars. This is not the case in Gran Turismo where you have a large variety of cars from hot hatches to prototypes. Difficulty should be scaled accordingly; you don't want to waste hours doing the Sunday Cup...

That's why it should be a toggled option. Feel like you're breezing through events? Turn it up. Can't even win at Sunday Cup? Turn it down. Plenty of games take this approach nowadays, some will even make the adjustment automatically if you're doing well/doing badly.

I know people always make the "CarPG" notion as a reason for the progressive difficulty, so it works like an actual RPG, but it still isn't. It's still a car racing game, you can't just apply all facets of an RPG to it and expect it to work. Prototype cars are not final bosses. It's also that issue of Kaz thinking everyone suffers amnesia between games. I'm a very experienced racing game player, I don't need to start out with basic beginner only events, whereas people whose first GT game, they do.

So again, options. Cater to as many people as possible.

 

[Northstar]

There are benefits to slowly upping the difficulty as you progress through the game.

I agree, but there are ways to accomplish that without removing the option to select AI difficulty. Things like pit stops, fuel saving, tire management and changing weather conditions are much more realistic ways of adding difficulty.

It helps you to build confidence and skills that you will be able to exploit in harder, longer events.

Which will happen even with varying AI levels since the performance of the cars will still be improving. If anything a static difficulty hurts that aspect since it can make you overconfident in your abilities resulting in lots of frustration.

You really feel like you're moving up which only gives you further motivation to continue.

Again, this will happen anyways due to the cars involved, if you go from driving a pink Yaris to an F1 car there will be a sense of accomplishment.

Always having it easy or hard removes that aspect of the gameplay completely.

And? I've known people that exclusively play games on the easiest setting possible because they like the interactive nature of the stories/experiences but don't really care for a tough challenge. The opposite of this is also true.

Either way the fact the options that allow people to game how they choose exist is a great thing and it always baffles me to see people argue against it.

This is not the case in Gran Turismo where you have a large variety of cars from hot hatches to prototypes. Difficulty should be scaled accordingly; you don't want to waste hours doing the Sunday Cup...

If anything the variety of cars is an argument against your point. If I want to race budget cars in career mode, why should I be limited to a super short series stuck on noobie difficulty? Why not do like other games and give me options to make any race in career as difficult and as long as I want to?

And yes, I would actually love to waste hours doing the Sunday Cup.

 

[05XR8]

I'll add about that GT.4 event in GT Sport. Seriously, it's a growing seri s and limiting it to Beginner, is bad. Should have been added to Endurance because those GT4 races are really 60 minutes long, in real life.

Anyway, I third the motion for difficulty option in Sunday Cup. I love the Camaro ZL1 and can not use it, at full power, for the American Cup. It has to be detuned anywhere else(can't even drop it to Gr.4 level of power) and it's not expensive enough to race in the Premium Lounge.

 

[ScottPuss20]

That's why it should be a toggled option. Feel like you're breezing through events? Turn it up. Can't even win at Sunday Cup? Turn it down. Plenty of games take this approach nowadays, some will even make the adjustment automatically if you're doing well/doing badly.

I know people always make the "CarPG" notion as a reason for the progressive difficulty, so it works like an actual RPG, but it still isn't. It's still a car racing game, you can't just apply all facets of an RPG to it and expect it to work. Prototype cars are not final bosses. It's also that issue of Kaz thinking everyone suffers amnesia between games. I'm a very experienced racing game player, I don't need to start out with basic beginner only events, whereas people whose first GT game, they do.

So again, options. Cater to as many people as possible.

I agree, but there are ways to accomplish that without removing the option to select AI difficulty. Things like pit stops, fuel saving, tire management and changing weather conditions are much more realistic ways of adding difficulty.


Which will happen even with varying AI levels since the performance of the cars will still be improving. If anything a static difficulty hurts that aspect since it can make you overconfident in your abilities resulting in lots of frustration.

If you go from driving a pink Yaris to an F1 car there will be a sense of accomplishment.


And? I've known people that exclusively play games on the easiest setting possible because they like the interactive nature of the stories/experiences but don't really care for a tough challenge. The opposite of this is also true.

Either way the fact the options that allow people to game how they choose exist is a great thing and it always baffles me to see people argue against it.


If anything the variety of cars is an argument against your point. If I want to race budget cars in career mode, why should I be limited to a super short series stuck on noobie difficulty? Why not do like other games and give me options to make any race in career as difficult and as long as I want to?

And yes, I would actually love to waste hours doing the Sunday Cup.

Well put it this way: if you have beginner, amateur, professional and extreme events, a difficulty slider is stupid. If the races weren't categorised in this way, a difficulty slider will work just fine. Having event halls of varying difficulty helps to segment the game into smaller, more workable parts. If you put 100 events in front of someone and the difficulty is the same, they will see it as a huge challenge. If you break it up into 4 segments of 25 events with varying difficulty, they will see it as a more manageable challenge. Psychology does play a role in how we work through and play a game; it's a powerful thing. I don't like it when a whole heap of work is put in front of me, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that we humans like to break things up into smaller, workable tasks. Or maybe that's just me. I don't know. I guess I've moved the goalposts too far.

 

[Samus]

Well put it this way: if you have beginner, amateur, professional and extreme events, a difficulty slider is stupid.

Well, obviously. That's why you don't group the events like that. There are plenty of ways to do it where people aren't just overwhelmed with a big wall of events.

You could make it like a real calendar, where events are only shown a month or two in advance. You could lock them by experience like other games do. So you see a big list but only 12 or whatever are available to start with, once you complete more races and/or earn more licenses then more are progressively unlocked. Essentially as it is now, just without labelling each new group with a difficulty, tie it to prestige and experience instead.

In the real world no matter how good or bad you are, whether you're a prodigy from the start or need to improve as time goes on, and you need experience and good results to move up the ladder. You can't just get into F1 from karts, even if you are winning at 'professional' difficulty. But on the flipside, racing in karts or other starter events like Ginettas or smaller Formulae, the competition and skill level can be very high.

Lots of ways they could do it that don't involve fixed difficulty groups of events.

 

[ScottPuss20]

You could make it like a real calendar, where events are only shown a month or two in advance. You could lock them by experience like other games do. So you see a big list but only 12 or whatever are available to start with, once you complete more races and/or earn more licenses then more are progressively unlocked. Essentially as it is now, just without labelling each new group with a difficulty, tie it to prestige and experience instead.

Just like Juiced then! I definitely see the potential of this idea.

 

[05XR8]

It’s funny, because PD even do the Beginner, Amatuer , Professional in the same race for Single Player races. You fill the circle with the level you finished first. So, PD have the dang potential to do all races this way, but they just don’t.

 

[Stefan Clift]

I hope we get B-Spec mode, 360 degree chase cam, track editor and VR support.... Any likely?

I would love to have B-Spec with any possible endurance races, with the option to switch from a-spec to b-spec during the race like driver swaps

 

[o000o]

Well put it this way: if you have beginner, amateur, professional and extreme events, a difficulty slider is stupid. If the races weren't categorised in this way, a difficulty slider will work just fine. Having event halls of varying difficulty helps to segment the game into smaller, more workable parts. If you put 100 events in front of someone and the difficulty is the same, they will see it as a huge challenge. If you break it up into 4 segments of 25 events with varying difficulty, they will see it as a more manageable challenge. Psychology does play a role in how we work through and play a game; it's a powerful thing. I don't like it when a whole heap of work is put in front of me, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that we humans like to break things up into smaller, workable tasks. Or maybe that's just me. I don't know. I guess I've moved the goalposts too far.

There have been a time where GT doesn't group the events by difficulty. Like GT2 where the events are placed in Special Events (yeah that's the name instead of what GT5 has...). I'd like for the players to have multiple choices to sort events, like in addition to what GT has implemented, can also choose to sort by car type (ex: Super GT, GT3, etc.), event type (ex: Drivetrain contest, etc.), etc.

As usual, this is in-line with my wants for events (that can be implemented with) to have multiple levels such as Drivetrain events, like MR event can be divided into low (MR-S level), mid (BMW i8 level), and high tier (FXX level) of that car type (MR cars). I'd prefer if all the event levels are in 1 event like GT2 (but due to that it only has 1 race for each level), if the list uses beginner, amateur, professional and extreme, the different level events will be at each of the hall (the different level in GT2 can have different prize cars and/or License requirements).

Well, obviously. That's why you don't group the events like that. There are plenty of ways to do it where people aren't just overwhelmed with a big wall of events.

You could make it like a real calendar, where events are only shown a month or two in advance. You could lock them by experience like other games do. So you see a big list but only 12 or whatever are available to start with, once you complete more races and/or earn more licenses then more are progressively unlocked. Essentially as it is now, just without labelling each new group with a difficulty, tie it to prestige and experience instead.

For locking events by experience, that's what GT5 did too (levels, albeit there's still difficulty grouping)... but it'd still restrict the player's freedom like Licenses? In different ways. With Licenses it's locked before you complete it but you can access all events right away if you complete all Licenses even with Bronze. With experience/levels you'd have to progress by actually playing the game but there'd be potential grind if you've completed all of the currently available events but the next ones are locked by experiences.

In the real world no matter how good or bad you are, whether you're a prodigy from the start or need to improve as time goes on, and you need experience and good results to move up the ladder. You can't just get into F1 from karts, even if you are winning at 'professional' difficulty. But on the flipside, racing in karts or other starter events like Ginettas or smaller Formulae, the competition and skill level can be very high.

That'd be the reason why most games would make the players start from zero (or not exactly from zero but not instantly having everything unlocked such as GT's data transfer before which must happen in GT7 from GTS)? Like even if you have completed several racing games including past GT such as GT4, the new games would treat any player as new in that game regardless of past racing experiences.

 

[Emet_PL]

I hope we get B-Spec mode, 360 degree chase cam, track editor and VR support.... Any likely?

B-Spec to use in endurance races would be nice, track editor if it's made good and fully custom (wihout random surroundings with huge pop-in).
I don't get why we still don't have 360 degree chase cam, when every game has it... even GT Sport beta had it initially.

 

[MMRivit]

I don't get why we still don't have 360 degree chase cam, when every game has it... even GT Sport beta had it initially.

Kaz finds it way too useful during races.

 

[Samus]

With experience/levels you'd have to progress by actually playing the game but there'd be potential grind if you've completed all of the currently available events but the next ones are locked by experiences.

Which is avoided with good game design to ensure that never happens. When I say experience, I don't mean winning events, I literally mean the exercise of completing the previous events, in any position. Or tying it to mileage, and making sure the number ties to the open events done only once.

It's only when you get to the absolute elite events I'd place any kind of performance/previous results restriction.

 

[turk1993]

B-Spec to use in endurance races would be nice, track editor if it's made good and fully custom (wihout random surroundings with huge pop-in).
I don't get why we still don't have 360 degree chase cam, when every game has it... even GT Sport beta had it initially.

I complained about this also, i find it weird they removed it after the beta. But i think it has to do with the in game car models, they try to hide the lower lods during gameplay. I hope they bring it back, no reason to remove such a simple thing.

 

[regnar]

With all the focus that PD puts on detail, surprise no free camera in home garage, not looking for Forzavisa with opening doors & hood.

 

[ImaRobot]

With all the focus that PD puts on detail, surprise no free camera in home garage, not looking for Forzavisa with opening doors & hood.

With all the focus they put into the detail of these cars, I would actually prefer they copy Forzavista exactly. It's already nifty on Forza, GT would be even better with it's superior lighting and shaders. Give it about 4 more games, seeing how long it took for us just to get a livery editor.

 

[Samus]

It's been perplexing ever since they started modelling car interiors in crazy detail for the PS3, down to the stitching on the rear seats, that they never gave users an official way to actually look at that work. So much of their detailing efforts, the main reason the cars take so long, goes completely unseen.

 

[Silver Arrows]

With all the focus that PD puts on detail, surprise no free camera in home garage, not looking for Forzavisa with opening doors & hood.

Then why the **** are Polyphony creating models with details down to the nth degree, especially in interiors and engine bays, if they aren't going to give people a reason to look at them? That's the entire point of Forzavista, and it would work wonders in GT without question.

I'd seriously like to see the reason why you wouldn't want a Forzavista system in GT considering the fidelity of the models Polyphony creates.

 

[regnar]

Then why the **** are Polyphony creating models with details down to the nth degree, especially in interiors and engine bays, if they aren't going to give people a reason to look at them? That's the entire point of Forzavista, and it would work wonders in GT without question.

I'd seriously like to see the reason why you wouldn't want a Forzavista system in GT considering the fidelity of the models Polyphony creates.

My expectations from PD are probably a little lower than yours, I would be thrilled if they did something like Forvavisa, I'm just saying give us a least the ability to move around the vehicle.
I know some cars have had engine bay & trunks detailed, but most probably haven't.

 

[05XR8]

PD even modelled the floor mats in one of the Lancers.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I don't get why we still don't have 360 degree chase cam, when every game has it... even GT Sport beta had it initially.

They had no reason to remove the feature.

 

[o000o]

I thought I wanted for rotating around cars or Forzavista-like feature just to give something more to do with the cars, but true, if PD doesn't let the players look around the absurdly detailed cars they create, then the effort they did to create those details are practically for naught.

 

[gthelmi2398]

To be honest, I never missed that feature and not one time I was thinking about it, but it would be awesome.

 

[o000o]

Their logic is probably that you can just use one of the many slower cars in their vast encyclopedia of cars if it's not enough of a challenge, evident by the bonus you get in GTS for using a car under the max allowed class.

This is another thing I want brought up in a more "confrontational" interview if the chance arises: "GT has always had a career mode that can't be adjusted, so more experienced players don't have a challenge until hours into the game. Has an adjustable career mode where even Sunday Cup can be difficult ever been considered?".

Though the answer will probably chalked up to GT tradition and "use a slower car because we have so many to choose from".

Really man, wasted chance if there are some interviews that can actually happen with PD, who is notorious for being detached to the fanbase, but if the interviewers talk more about the game issues rather than just passively asking them for more info on the game, PD will probably comply to the fanbase's wishes better, like Famine suggesting to add Trial Mountain over Deep Forest (where Kaz said they're working on Deep Forest when Famine talked with Kaz), and GT7 features Trial Mountain.

If PD claims they can create the game of same quality in both PS4 and PS5, and that PD claims not all tracks will have dynamic weather, the interview should ask if PD is PS5 exclusive, would they be able to add dynamic weather on all tracks smh.

But that's the thing, the slower car should be given the same treatment like there are easier but also more difficult event too, so keep the "use a slower car", not that giving the players harder event must be done by giving faster cars.

Which is avoided with good game design to ensure that never happens. When I say experience, I don't mean winning events, I literally mean the exercise of completing the previous events, in any position. Or tying it to mileage, and making sure the number ties to the open events done only once.

It's only when you get to the absolute elite events I'd place any kind of performance/previous results restriction.

I never even said that experience means winning. I refer to grind as replaying the events over and over, positions don't matter.

Kaz finds it way too useful during races.

Doesn't he continually try to groom the beginners of GT like High Speed Ring as focus or such?

My expectations from PD are probably a little lower than yours, I would be thrilled if they did something like Forvavisa, I'm just saying give us a least the ability to move around the vehicle.
I know some cars have had engine bay & trunks detailed, but most probably haven't.

This is the small step they have to even accomplish first, like even Gallery Mode in GT6 didn't have any rotating around smh.

 

[justin credible]

I prefer the easy level to start off with and then build from there until I get to the level where I just can't do it anymore, I am satisfied then I have done what I can I have hit my limit, also getting to that limit takes me an age so I have a good gameplay experience.
I find if the game was basically professional or very hard from the start many people would switch it on find it to difficult switch off and throw it in the bin, well I know I would others may not.
I enjoyed going for gold on the licence tests even though when I got to the later licence tests I was happy with silver and the occasional bronze.
I really do hope for a difficulty slider but I would like to see it across the whole game not just easy at the start on Sunday Cup and a couple of others, I would like to play the game in easy to amateur level, I know that doesn't suit everyone but it would suit me as I play for entertainment not to spend an age on the same track trying to get first or gold and basically starting to sweat I am trying so hard. I just want levels for people like me entertainment only and also be able to notch it up to very difficult for those who prefer the hard challenge.
Opinions always vary I would love it to be like GT4, I have no interest in online racing I prefer career mode and many other things I don't use which others do like the Livery I never even look at it or music I never switch on even the menu music is off for me engine sound and tyre noise is all I require.
Having the different options within the game is brilliant so it can please all different gamers,
I was hoping Polyphony would have a look at Driveclub and follow that as that was for me the best driving game ever. Fingers crossed another driveclub comes out one day or they switch the servers back on for Driveclub, Dreaming here but hey we can dream can't we?

 

[CoopR_26]

I would like to play the game in easy to amateur level, I know that doesn't suit everyone but it would suit me as I play for entertainment

We all play video games for fun, how you achieve that fun is different for everyone. I think a lot of GT players get the fun from racing in a semi competitive platform. It should be challenging but not too difficult or punishing. The most important thing they should change about the AI, is the Chase the Rabbit mechanic. I want to actually race, not avoid obstacles in the shape of moving cars.