Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[LSFDRX]

Noticed some more broken/unusual stuff in my last play session.

As others have said, the Miura is 100% undriveable. I like cars that are a challenge, and just drove a stock 512BB before this in the Classic race at Nurburgring stock on CS tires and had a great time. The 512 isn't the easiest thing to drive at speed, but is very rewarding and manageable.

The Miura though, uncatchable pendulum oversteer all the time. I spun the thing in Sabine corner, the first corner, three times in a row. After several attempts I never even made it through the first sector. I'm no slouch in GT7 and can't even come close to simply driving the Miura.

It's a complete waste of a model at the moment. It doesn't make any sense that this kind of behavior is allowed to make it in the game. I find it hard to believe that any tester drove it and even made it around a track, or said "yeah that's good". For me it sheds some light on why so many strange things are present in GT7... I have no idea how or who is testing these models, or if anyone is.

Using the Taycan for the infuriating Euro Clubman 600 at Suzuka (such a biased, dumb race... only three laps to catch that stupid 1000hp Alfa. Cannot win it with a sub 600pp car) and noticed that it had problems with slow speed corners. It would hook and turn in amazingly everywhere else, but not in the hairpin or at spoon. Watching the replay I noticed that the loaded tires were hopping like crazy, no doubt leading to said traction issues. Suspension rebound issues are still a big problem, and why I can't drive any of my beloved EVOs anymore.

Also, the M2 now has very little steering feel, but still drives well.

Really hoping that the people at PD have been addressing the myriad issues with 1.50 since it dropped. Unfortunately I don't think we'll know anything at all until the next update is ready, whenever that may be.

 

[xDriver69x]

I swear it’s tires hitting inside of fenders. What disappoints me most is a stock Pantera widebodied with wide tires wide offset, now has fender rub and it never had it before. Loved driving that car stock except having widebodied wide tires wide offset and some aero. I wonder what made them decide to change the suspension and tire physics?

I highly doubt they model and simulate the wheel contact in relation to the body other than the suspension pickup points/wheel travel path in relation to the body, if it hasn't already been optimized ahead of time into a lookup data map.

 

[Nebuc72]

I highly doubt they model and simulate the wheel contact in relation to the body other than the suspension pickup points/wheel travel path in relation to the body, if it hasn't already been optimized ahead of time into a lookup data map.

The game has always simulated fender rub.

 

[chengman]

I don't know if we should be concerned that Polyphony hasn't talked about it, or that Polyphony might just leave the physics as is. Oh well they did launch the game with high downforce cars that couldn't even take curva grande at monza flat out and took a year to fix.

 

[VVS_cz]

Another thing I've noticed since the update is a lot of cars now bottom out at foxhole on the Nurburgring in stock form. The borked damping model is probably the reason why.

Yeah, that goes for most road cars and there is really no way how to avoid this. Tunes or letting off the gas trying to get through the corner with perfectly stable car with minimum steering input won´t help you. I usually must slow down to snail´s pace so even AI overtakes me. And watching AI going through that corner is also crazy, massive snaps and miraculous saves or brutal crashes on every attempt.

 

[VVS_cz]

I don't know if we should be concerned that Polyphony hasn't talked about it, or that Polyphony might just leave the physics as is. Oh well they did launch the game with high downforce cars that couldn't even take curva grande at monza flat out and took a year to fix.

I am concerned man. 1.49 and 1.50 make me abandon the game I enjoyed greatly for 1200 hours. On 1.48 the physics was perfectly fine, yeah the FFB could be better and it was probably too much forgiving especially on corner entries. But it was also great fun, the game felt polished and wast majority of cars worked fine. Current state reminds me of first version of the game, it had much more rough edges and cars were generally harder to drive, but the difficulty was not intentional it was caused by unexpected and nonlogical behaviour. I still remember Sector 1 in Suzuka or IA10 on first version of the game those were absolute pain – sudden snaps in the middle of corners, some curbs were like a lottery.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Noticed some more broken/unusual stuff in my last play session.

As others have said, the Miura is 100% undriveable. I like cars that are a challenge, and just drove a stock 512BB before this in the Classic race at Nurburgring stock on CS tires and had a great time. The 512 isn't the easiest thing to drive at speed, but is very rewarding and manageable.

The Miura though, uncatchable pendulum oversteer all the time. I spun the thing in Sabine corner, the first corner, three times in a row. After several attempts I never even made it through the first sector. I'm no slouch in GT7 and can't even come close to simply driving the Miura.

The Miura IS driveable but it's not fun.

 

[LSFDRX]

The Miura IS driveable but it's not fun.

I am not questioning your skills, but I'd like to see a clip of that.

I'm not saying it's beyond driving it at a pokey pace taking in the sights, but I would be very interested in seeing it driven at the 'Ring, at speed, untuned, with no aids on it's stock comfort tires.

 

[snowgt]

List of stock road cars with the front bouncing problem (the one where the car's front just inadvertently gets bumped into the air for no apparent reason):

All Mitsubishi Evos from Evo III to Evo X
All Subaru BRZ & Toyota 86GT/GR86 with the exception of the 86 GRMN (probably has a different suspension?)
BMW M3 Sport Evolution

(will update, if I find more)

 

[kiseca]

List of stock road cars with the front bouncing problem (the one where the car's front just inadvertently gets bumped into the air for no apparent reason):

All Mitsubishi Evos from Evo III to Evo X
All Subaru BRZ & Toyota 86GT/GR86 with the exception of the 86 GRMN (probably has a different suspension?)
BMW M3 Sport Evolution

(will update, if I find more)

I think I might have had it on a Corvette C4 running racing hards at Nurburgring but I can't be sure. Replay didn't show vibrating wheels, only showed odd, jerky car movements in a couple of places where from the dockpit the car's reaction also felt odd and sudden. One of them was running over a high kerb so a reaction was expected but it felt weird, like one side of the car was suddenly launched into the air about half a second after I'd hit the kerb. The other time was the well known moment at foxhole. Car suddenly steered left in the compression, the ffb lost its mind for a second, and the steering wheel graphic started snapping around like a person dancing under a strobe light.

The car behaved itself for the rest of the lap so I'm not really sure if it's glitching or not.

 

[suomi1]

I think I might have had it on a Corvette C4 running racing hards at Nurburgring but I can't be sure. Replay didn't show vibrating wheels, only showed odd, jerky car movements in a couple of places where from the dockpit the car's reaction also felt odd and sudden. One of them was running over a high kerb so a reaction was expected but it felt weird, like one side of the car was suddenly launched into the air about half a second after I'd hit the kerb. The other time was the well known moment at foxhole. Car suddenly steered left in the compression, the ffb lost its mind for a second, and the steering wheel graphic started snapping around like a person dancing under a strobe light.

The car behaved itself for the rest of the lap so I'm not really sure if it's glitching or not.

I had the same feeling for the C4 / Nürb combo yesterday. Racing with Sport Soft tires, then Sport Hard / Sport Susp.
Braking in the descents seemed dangerous and quite random.

 

[chengman]

I am concerned man. 1.49 and 1.50 make me abandon the game I enjoyed greatly for 1200 hours. On 1.48 the physics was perfectly fine, yeah the FFB could be better and it was probably too much forgiving especially on corner entries. But it was also great fun, the game felt polished and wast majority of cars worked fine. Current state reminds me of first version of the game, it had much more rough edges and cars were generally harder to drive, but the difficulty was not intentional it was caused by unexpected and nonlogical behaviour. I still remember Sector 1 in Suzuka or IA10 on first version of the game those were absolute pain – sudden snaps in the middle of corners, some curbs were like a lottery.

Oh yeah thats one thing I've definitely noticed since the update came out. I've been playing it less and less because a lot of the cars I used to drive in stock form can't handle a single lap of the Nurburgring or any track with high speed braking or hard compression zones. There's certain cars where you can do a wheelie in reverse because of how the damping model works now!! I dont know how that could be possible.

 

[hawkeyez]

I am not questioning your skills, but I'd like to see a clip of that.

I'm not saying it's beyond driving it at a pokey pace taking in the sights, but I would be very interested in seeing it driven at the 'Ring, at speed, untuned, with no aids on it's stock comfort tires.

The muira never was driveable stock. When I bought it probably a year ago, I couldn’t complete a lap at Suzuka and I was driving slow lol

 

[kiseca]

Oh yeah thats one thing I've definitely noticed since the update came out. I've been playing it less and less because a lot of the cars I used to drive in stock form can't handle a single lap of the Nurburgring or any track with high speed braking or hard compression zones. There's certain cars where you can do a wheelie in reverse because of how the damping model works now!! I dont know how that could be possible.

I'm the same. When I first started, I had a couple of sessions where I just took cars out on track for fun, still enjoying the novelty of VR. A particular highlight was comparing the Pantera and Ferrari 308, first in the Cafe carpark and then around Brands Hatch. But I soon realised too many of the cars I wanted to collect were high value Legends cars, they only show up once a quarter, the prices required a huge time investment in races - even the highest paying ones - and the prices in Legends keep going up.

I also remember from GT4 and GT5 that I got nearly of my pleasure from the games once I'd completed the games enough that I was financially comfortable enough to buy what I want, and I was free to enjoy my collection of cars when I wanted, that my collection was more or less complete, and I could enjoy any of the races without my next purchase being dependant on mmy finiahing position.

So, I spent nearly all of my time on 1.48 grinding and some of 1.5 too, and now that I'm in a position to actually enjoy the cars, I'm juat not bothering because I expect all of them could well feel different once they get around to fixing the mess they've created with 1.49 / 1.5

So, I've spent most of my potential quality time in GT7 grinding away in race cars (I prefer driving road cars), and if I'd instead decided to spend that time enjoying cars and lapping circuits, that wouldn't have worked out either because there were so many cars I wanted to try out but couldn't afford them. Or I was waiting for an invite.

GT7 with VR is the best racing game I've ever played, but it matches that with a level of frustration that also outdoes all past titles... and that's saying something. It's not like older GTs didn't also set standards for being brilliant and exasperating in similar measures.

 

[snowgt]

Oh yeah thats one thing I've definitely noticed since the update came out. I've been playing it less and less because a lot of the cars I used to drive in stock form can't handle a single lap of the Nurburgring or any track with high speed braking or hard compression zones. There's certain cars where you can do a wheelie in reverse because of how the damping model works now!! I dont know how that could be possible.

I think that's just the result of very sticky tyres paired with pretty soft front suspension resulting in the front going down completely and the rear coming up so far that the centre of gravity rises so high that the car starts rotating around the front axle.

 

[xDriver69x]

The game has always simulated fender rub.

Can you show me a video link or a replay shared in game, I can't find anything on youtube.

 

[LSFDRX]

Can you show me a video link or a replay shared in game, I can't find anything on youtube.

Get an R30 skyline, widebody it, then slam it on wide/wide wheels. You literally won't be able to turn the wheels more than 15 degrees.

There are many cars in game that simulate the restrictions of fender clearance, but it is way too agressive, and really just doesn't need to exist as a game mechanic.

 

[VVS_cz]

Oh yeah thats one thing I've definitely noticed since the update came out. I've been playing it less and less because a lot of the cars I used to drive in stock form can't handle a single lap of the Nurburgring or any track with high speed braking or hard compression zones. There's certain cars where you can do a wheelie in reverse because of how the damping model works now!! I dont know how that could be possible.

Yeah same for me and it´s not only about the racing experience. I have cca 100 cars carefully tuned to 700,00; 650,00; 600,00; 550,00; 500,00; 450,00 PP. I even created more than 50 liveries for cars I love most and now I really don´t want to redo the tunes since its clear as day sooner or later there will be another update changing/repairing the physics and messing with PP again.

 

[Meythia]

I really don´t want to redo the tunes since its clear as day sooner or later there will be another update changing/repairing the physics and messing with PP again.

To be fair to the game, this could happen on any game update.
Though this time it happened twice in a single weeks timeframe.
Also with changes so drastic that some cars for one or the other reason simply are not driveable anymore.

 

[VVS_cz]

To be fair to the game, this could happen on any game update.
Though this time it happened twice in a single weeks timeframe.
Also with changes so drastic that some cars for one or the other reason simply are not driveable anymore.

I didn´t have problem with update that changed physics and PP in the past. I have problem with update changing physics and PP in a way that is clear they will have to change/repair it again with the next update. For example, with spec II there was clear improvement, and we all knew the game entered new better phase. Now it´s clear they messed up and to me it looks like only reasonable thing to do is waiting for the fix.

 

[Meythia]

Now it´s clear they messed up and to me it looks like only reasonable thing to do is waiting for the fix.

Huge chance it will only target fix the cars that dont work with default settings.
I dont bet on it, so I can be positively surprised.

 

[VVS_cz]

Huge chance it will only target fix the cars that dont work with default settings.
I dont bet on it, so I can be positively surprised.

I really can´t tell what PD can do now apart from returning to 1.48 and starting from there. It also looks like to me that their goal is to create system working for every car right away, otherwise they would have to test every car with every physics update and that clearly didn’t happen. So I think PD will change the whole physics again.

 

[JDMKING13]

I am not questioning your skills, but I'd like to see a clip of that.

I'm not saying it's beyond driving it at a pokey pace taking in the sights, but I would be very interested in seeing it driven at the 'Ring, at speed, untuned, with no aids on it's stock comfort tires.

Not for nothing but watching reviews on the car… I don’t think any normal mortal could handle that car on the ring going full out… it’s not the best handling car…

 

[nfsp2kTW]

Curious how the Miura is undriveable?
TTry Stock Miura modified steering angle + CH tires for drift testing,
There will be no unexpected oversteer, and the front wheels will not rub against the fenders,
Maybe the steering angle adapter should be included as standard equipment.

 

[mynameis66]

Does the steering angle adaptor actually have any effect on a road/race tune? Ive used cars with and without it and not noticed any difference steering wise wether its installed or not.

 

[nfsp2kTW]

Does the steering angle adaptor actually have any effect on a road/race tune? Ive used cars with and without it and not noticed any difference steering wise wether its installed or not.

There is no physical impact, but as long as the front wheel arch does not interfere with the tires,
A larger steering angle is more conducive to saving the rear end that may be lost suddenly.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Does the steering angle adaptor actually have any effect on a road/race tune? Ive used cars with and without it and not noticed any difference steering wise wether its installed or not.

I installed it on my tuned widebodied Volvo 240 and it did make the car a lot easier to steer.

 

[hawkeyez]

Comfort hard is going to make it easier imo. That old Porsche 365? Not the convertible, the coupe, it drives fine stock, go up one tire compound to stickier and it’s a royal PIA.

 

[LSFDRX]

Curious how the Miura is undriveable?
TTry Stock Miura modified steering angle + CH tires for drift testing,
There will be no unexpected oversteer, and the front wheels will not rub against the fenders,
Maybe the steering angle adapter should be included as standard equipment.

We're talking about a stock Miura on its stock tires and driving it at speed, not drifting.

Yes, the wheel adapter makes the steering angle wider, but that's a modification. And CH tires are slow when it comes to racing the car against others... also not stock.

It looks like you're very good at drifting, but that doesn't have much to do with what we're talking about.

Every car should be at the very least driveable right out of the box. The Miura and some others still aren't.

 

[hawkeyez]

We're talking about a stock Miura on its stock tires and driving it at speed, not drifting.

Yes, the wheel adapter makes the steering angle wider, but that's a modification. And CH tires are slow when it comes to racing the car against others... also not stock.

It looks like you're very good at drifting, but that doesn't have much to do with what we're talking about.

Every car should be at the very least driveable right out of the box. The Miura and some others still aren't.

I’ve been having troubles with the stock e type Jaguar since their “physics/tires improvement update” which I know it was always a little tricky, I tried to run it at goodwood and holy I was having a heck of a time not just spinning out.